Re: SC736 Double Backplane Proto-Board

[Harry S. Speer]

      

   16:59, 4:59 PM, Wed. Feb. 4th, 2026 

   Re: SC736 Double Backplane Proto-Board

   

   Hi, Steve !!

   Thanks for getting back to me. I went to your 

   specs page for the SC736 Proto-Board, and I 

   saw the 

   SC736 PCB dimensions: 4.0″ Height x 8.2″ Wide (101.6mm x 208.3mm)   

   I still have a few 6U EuroCard VME proto-boards which are 

   220mm Height x 233.4mm Wide -or- 

   8.66 Inches Height x 9.19 Inches Wide. So I have the Blank 

   boards here already ... IF I Just knew the size of the GAP 

   between the Left Set of 80-pins to the Right Side set of 80-pins

   the width of that center gap, Please ??? 

   

   Yes, I could just buy one and measure the gap myself, but 

   money is extremely tight at the moment. This tariff war 

   has driven up Food Prices. Going grocery shopping is an 

   overwhelming shock way too many times. At least here in the 

   USA. I don't know about $$$ or Pounds or Euros in other 

   countries, whether they've spiked there too or not.

   

   So do you buy any chance have a file or files that shows

   the width of that Gap between Left Pins and the Right Pins ??  

   A PDF file perhaps ?? Or any other info you could give me ??

      

   If not, then I can go ahead and do the Kit here: 

   https://small-computers-direct.square.site/product/sc736-rcbus-80pin-prototyping-module-kit/UZCEQDFBXFIBCI5TQTXB6MET

   Wishing you and yours are well,

   Harry S. Speer

   cc: self  

================================================================   

On 2/3/26 20:36, retro...@googlegroups.com wrote:

retro...@googlegroups.com

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• The future of SCC kits and PCBs - 1 Update
• Prototyping modules - 1 Update
• WinCUPL & Microchip SPLDs and CPLDs - A new release for Win10/Win11 - 3 Updates
• RCBus 3V3 test experiment project, progress... - 1 Update

The future of SCC kits and PCBs

Steve Cousins <steve...@gmail.com>: Feb 03 10:02AM -0800 UPDATE:   For the last 4 months I've had a friend help me assemble kits. This has taken the pressure off and made kit assembly a social event, rather than tedious work. I now feel quite comfortable continuing to supply kits and expect to continue for at least a few more years.   I will have to consider an exit strategy at some point. The latest hassle is the new UK "Making Tax Digital" tax rules. This will require most self employed people to submit tax data 4 times a year using approved software. That means changing my long used record keeping system. I suspect in a few years they will force small traders like me to become unpaid tax collectors by having to charge 20% Value Added Tax (VAT) on sales. I'm not sure how that adds "value" but it sure increases prices!   Thanks everyone for your support and suggestions.   Steve   On Friday, 5 September 2025 at 16:54:12 UTC+1 Steve Cousins wrote:

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Prototyping modules

Steve Cousins <steve...@gmail.com>: Feb 03 06:34AM -0800 Hi Harry   It was recent communications with you that inspired SC736. I don't currently plan to produce a matching backplane, as using two of my 80-pin backplanes can be used as a pair to do the job.   Steve

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WinCUPL & Microchip SPLDs and CPLDs - A new release for Win10/Win11

Mark Durham <mark...@gmail.com>: Feb 03 01:09AM -0800 Thought I would post this in case it's of interest to others.   Today I was looking for the WinCUPL install files on the Microchip website so I could try WinCUPL via WINE on Linux whilst I tinker with an ATF1504 device.   On the WinCUPL download page <https://www.microchip.com/en-us/development-tool/wincupl>, I noticed mention of WinCUPL II. The download says that it is version 1.0.0 Beta and dated August 6th, 2025. The revision history says that it is a "*New version with new GUI for Windows 10/11 support.*"   I've not installed it yet - life getting in the way and all - but it might offer a better experience than the original WinCUPL.   Mark.

Tadeusz Pycio <ta...@wp.pl>: Feb 03 01:13AM -0800 Yes, WinCUPL II is definitely a better and less temperamental programme, but it should be noted that this package does not have a working simulator.

Ronny Ribeiro <ronny...@gmail.com>: Feb 03 08:09AM -0300 I saw it yesterday. Downloaded and installed it on Ubuntu under Wine. Everything seems to be working.   Ronny

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RCBus 3V3 test experiment project, progress...

7alken <antos...@gmail.com>: Feb 02 10:07PM -0800 thank,s ahhh, solder mask, ...I always forget this, ya, thanks; yes Kicad, but I improvised till now, it is scriptable but for now, it is far better it is slower, when I realize later its incomplete )) P.   On Monday, February 2, 2026 at 11:40:06 PM UTC+1 Mark T wrote:

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[Mark T]

Hi Harry,

Steve’s documentation here is quite good, I think you can just count the holes on 0.1” spacing.

https://smallcomputercentral.com/rcbus/sc700-series/sc736-rcbus-prototyping-module/

[Harry Speer]

Thanks, Mark T.   Zooming in on the bare PC Board photo, it looks like 2 empty holes between the 2 sets of 

80 pins.  So like  Pin Hole Hole Pin.  I can use that.  Wish I had thought of it first.  ;-)   This tells me 

how far apart my two Backplanes should be.  I have a pair of SC709 backplanes.  This is me getting started into 68000 Family on RCBus.  I have some of Mark Durham's spare boards. Many Thanks !!   16-bit data bus for 68000, 68010, and 68HC000, If I recall correctly.  There's also a 68302 - sort of a 68000-family microcontroller.  Bill shen on RetroBrew, way back when, Bill had some very nice 68302 boards.  And for 32-bit  68020, '030, etc,  the uppermost address lines and data lines would be carried on the 2nd SC709 RCBus. 

 

Whereas Mark wants to do the 68020 on just the one Single RCBus Backplane  and  fetching twice for a 32-bit word.  Neither is right nor wrong, just like Chocolate or Vanilla ice-cream.  My thoughts  are  to extend it. 

 This idea came to me while I was considering using the VME Bus.  VME had this as a J1 Backplane and J2 Backplane, in Parallel.   Paired up on one "motherboard" - then such a board was called "Monolithic" which is what I want to create.  Steve Cousins having created this "double wide" proto card is just exactly what he and I were kicking ideas around. I think that was Before New Years.  Thanks again, Steve, and also Many Thanks to  Mark Durham as well. 
HSS

[Mark T]

There was also the 68332, similar to the 68302 but with a programmable timing system. This was used in the early Motorola GSM microtac handsets to generate timing for the GSM time division multiplexing. I think it was also used in engine management systems, possibly the ford EEC IV. I have a couple of the old handsets still and thought about trying to get them running code, or using them for spare parts, but the 68332 QFP is probably beyond my soldering ability and I don’t have schematics.

[Bill Shen]

683xx is large family of microcontrollers based on the 68000 core.  I have another 683xx based on 68340.  It should fit a standard 50x100mm RC2014 format.   https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/a-mc68340-homebrew.1252181/

68340 is difficult to find.  I’m currently thinking about a plain old 68000 CPU board for RC2014.  I’ll publish its predecessor design soon.

Bill

[Harry Speer]

  I have chosen to NOT pursue any of the 68xxx Family of Microcontrollers - 68332, etc., when they seem to be only available in the QFP surface-mount packages, or mostly QFP with a few PGA package - hard to find and / or more expensive than other choices of chips.    I am not yet ready to tackle surface-mount.  As for 68302 in PGA,  they look like they have a great deal to offer, but I have had limited success finding matching PGA Sockets. 

    

   Secondly,  I have tried - several times - to read through the 68302 documentation for same and been massively overwhelmed each time.  Since I have 2 cards for them now, I may, eventually, do a build with one or both.  The 68302 PGA CPU themselves start at $20 and up, and the only matching PGA-132 CPU Socket I have found is about $40 USD or £29.25 British Pounds from an Ebay in the UK.  Said price might be higher depending on Tariffs.  So Very Much Higher Cost than using a  "plain"  New  68HC000  from UTSource.Net and then also building a "companion" 68681 card for Console IO.  Since these are first builds for me, I am choosing simpler and lower costs.  Making mistakes on a cheaper card and cheaper CPU seems to me to be "more wise".   

      

   And much of the above is also a "problem" for 68340 CPU's.  Any CPU's in QFP Packages are on my "Black List", at least for now.  There seems to be a LOT of these 683xx QFP Chips available at low costs which would be Great if I could use them.  Oh well. 

    

   I'm looking for "Simple" and "Easy" and "Low Cost" whenever possible.   While I have done a LOT of reading about 68000 SBC's and Cards,  I still have Zero experience actually building same - hand soldering them  myself.  K.I.S.S.  Principle applies.  And trying to use Sockets for Each DIP Chip so that when I screw up  -  which seems to be inevitable  -  I can pull chips and reuse them and possibly also reuse the sockets as well.  The Machined Pin DIP Sockets are pricey but I do not want my First Build to Fail because of using "cheap" Sockets. False economy. 

     

   And thanks to each and all of you for your replies.  They help a very great deal in my "education".  :-) 

 HSS

[Mark T]

You can make your own PGA sockets using turned pin socket strips. Maybe best to make a pcb with a matrix of holes for the socket pins to push into after removing the plastic carrier strip. Probably use plated through holes with thin annular ring as plated through holes are more controlled for size. If you make a panel you could probably get 5 panels of 3x3 or 4x4 PGA matrix for a few dollars, and only populate the pins needed.

[Mark Durham]

I made my own PGA socket for my RCBus 68302 design. I alternated rows of sockets within their carrier strip and rows of individual sockets as I found that rows of carrier strips were very slightly wider than 0.1in each and 13 rows of them meant that the outer pins didn't quite line up with the socket properly.

Another side effect of making my own socket was that, as I later discovered, there are low insertion force sockets and my sockets weren't that type. The end result was that I couldn't remove my 302 without the possibility of breaking it.

[Mark T]

Do you know if there is a way of identifying low force sockets or where to get them?

[Mark Durham]

Unfortunately not. I've searched for them but not had any luck finding them these days but I did notice that Wikipedia had a page mentioning them. 

Having seen an image of a PGA extractor tool that Intel once had, I'm beginning to wonder if there was such a thing as a PGA low insertion force socket. 

[Bill Shen]

Peconnectors.com has PGA sockets at reasonable price.  I know the 68030 PGA socket is low insertion because I’ve removed several 68030 from their sockets without too much problems.

Bill

[Harry Speer]

Thanks, Bill.  I will check them out for the 68302.  I now have a diagram from Motorola's manual and a photo of the matching PGA Socket.  However, I am sorry to say that I have tried,  repeatedly,  to wade through the  68302 manual and failed repeatedly.  Mind-boggling.  I am sorry to say that the problem is more my inability to comprehend it.  Having all of the correct parts to solder together will not "fix" my "broken" brain. The  limiting factor here is NOT the hardware.  Any one of my friends will know this already.  Any further disclosure is not what I can give you. This disclosure is already embarrassing enough.  So I will stick to the "standard" chips:  CPU,  Flash subbing for "eprom",  SRAM,  and  DUART and MAX232 family. RCBus does not provide for MC1488.  My own design is similar to yours,  Bill,  but I'm NOT using programmable logic.  But rather 74LSxxx Family or the modern 74HCTxxx chips.  I'm new to the HC and HCT parts.  I am far behind you. 

[Mark Durham]

Just a thought, but if your MC1488 line drivers are for interfacing to a UART/DUART, then the RCBus connector does provide pins for TX (pin 35), RX (pin 36) and for a DUART, TX2 (pin 75) and RX2 (pin 76) - assuming  that the UART/DUART board routes its Tx and Rx lines to those pins. My 68681 board(s) currently don't because I forget to do it!

You could then use one of Steve's RCBus prototyping modules like the SC733 to host the MC1488 and pick up the appropriate signals off the RCBus connector.

[Harry S. Speer]

====================================================================   

   14:52, 2:52 PM, Sunday, February 8th, 2026 

   [retro-comp] Re: PGA Sockets for MC68302 & PEconnectors.Com

   

   To: Bill Shen Specifically & All [retro-comp] generally 

   

   I tried to get back to this message to all from Bill and I was 

   unable to find it, so just posting here instead: 

   

   The PGA Socket for the MC68302 CPU that I found that looked 

   correct, I found in Ebay UK was this one here (Link): 

   https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/226913813484

   So MFR and Model # AUGAT PGM1321A1347L 

  132 PIN PGA Socket, 13 x 13 grid, Machined Gold contacts       

    

   And so I sent an email, directly to PEconnectors.Com, and I 

   asked them specifically about AUGAT PGM1321A1347L and 

   their response was a very clear "No". I Also tried Google shopping

   and shopping with DuckDuckGo. And also Non-Shopping searches. 

    

   Not to say that PEconnectors.Com do not have connectors which match  

   other Motorola "68000-Family" CPU's like Bill mentioned for the MC68030  

   which is what Bill found. I am not excluding PEconnectors.Com, in general,  

   but just this one and only one MFR & Model # which matches the MC68302. 

            

   And, so far, this one on Ebay UK is the only exact match I have found 

   for the '302 - and Yes, I looked in PEconnectors.Com and elsewhere. 

   More than just once. 

    

   And, With all due respect to others here, I choose to not "kludge" a socket 

   for the '302. It is a personal thing, only for me, and my preferences about 

   using this particular '302 PGA CPU kludge only. I respect "bodge wire" fixes   

   and I am certainly willing to use them. So just this one specific "kludge".  

   And other deeply personal reasons.  

         

   So if you are Specifically hunting for the '302 PGA CPU socket, don't waste your 

   time with PEconnectors.Com. In General, Yes, Of Course. Just not for the '302 

   CPU Specifically. There were no matches there, and Yes, I looked there more 

   than once, Long before I specifically asked for this EXACT Augat PGA '302 

   CPU Socket.  

    

   My Deepest Thanks to Bill and his Very Many Excellent 68000-family SBC's. 

   And to Mark for his. I am Deeply Grateful. Just sad that this ONE socket 

   is not to be found there. So Far, just this one Ebay UK one for the '302.

   Harry

   

=================================================================================

On 2/7/26 19:00, Harry Speer wrote:

Peconnectors.Com has PGA sockets at reasonable price.  

I know the 68030 PGA socket is low insertion because I’ve 

removed several 68030 from their sockets without too much 

problems.

Bill

================================================================

[Michelle Lawson]

Harry, I've never had a need for PGA sockets, but it this what y'all are looking for? https://www.ebay.com/itm/132873249982

[Harry S. Speer]

=======================================================================
      

   17:27, 5:27 PM, Sunday, February 8th, 2026       

   Re: [retro-comp] RCBus Backplane and MC1488    
         

   To Mark, specifically, and All [retro-comp] in General,    

   
   By "context" of MAX232-family chips and MC1488 and       
   Also RCBus in general, I had thought that the context   
   made it clear, but I was wrong.  :-(  
   
   
   I meant that the RCBus Backplane Provides ONLY +5V DC    

   and Ground [or "earth" in the UK ??].    

    

   For Driving the RS-232 Tx and Rx, and many of the rest  

   of the chips using the RS-232 Specs, the MC1488, and other 

   similar chips, that drive RS-232, the MC1488 REQUIRES  

   not only +5V DC but ALSO REQUIRES +12 V DC and -12 V DC.

     
    

   A Very "traditional" choice for communicating with our  

   "retro era" computers.  I remember those years clearly.  

   We had to run RS-232 cables to use our "Hewpie" time-shared    

   HP Mini at College.  ;-)   The name "Hewpie" was spoken 

   with great Love. :-)    My "College Era" was about from 

   1979 - 1982 or '83, the "college years" for me. 

    

   
   So, for me, there was no using "USB" back then as it     

   had not yet been invented. For me, "USB" is NOT "Retro". 

   No "flame wars" Please !!  This is My Personal Choice.   

                         

   Jumping back to the present, I therefor MUST use the     

   MAX232-Family of RS-232 chips which are (mostly) powered 

   only by the +5V DC on the RCBus backplane. I actually 

   Prefer using the MAX249 chip with +5V Only and providing   

   6 (out) Drivers and 10 (In) Receivers.  Very Convenient  

   for a DUART - Very Nice, One Chip Only provides the Full  

   Set of RS-232 Serial IO from a DUART using +5V only. 

   Very Nice indeed. DUART and MAX Pair, so to speak. 

             

   So thus No Using the MC1488 Driver Chips as the RCBus 

   Backplane provides no +12 V DC nor -12 V DC power on 

   the RCBus Backplanes.  Strictly +5V DC Chips Only.   

    
     
   I have been "Bus-Hopping" - Computer Bus'es, that is. ;-)  
   
   When I was looking at the S-100 Bus, and also at the VME Bus, 
   
   they both very conveniently provided those two "rails":  
   
   +12 V DC and -12 V DC.  However, when I looked at the RCBus   
   
   as my next bus, I discovered, much to my chagrin, that +12 V 
   

   DC and -12 V DC "rails" were not there !! Thus No using MC1488 

   Drivers !!  

   
     
   So No, I am NOT referring to the Serial IO Lines - Rx, Tx - 
   on the RCBus backplane.  I have chosen RS-232 IO for the  
   Terminal Console and for the Mass Data Uploads and Downloads. 
   

   RS-232 is very Conveniently using a 3 wires minimum if you're 

   using software X-On and X-Off flow-control. For those who 

   are not already familiar, this means using the Control-Q  

   ASCII Character for X-ON and using the Control-S ASCII   

   Character for X-Off. Or Control-Q Means "Send Me Data" 

   (X-ON) and Control-S Means "Stop Sending Me Data" (X-Off). 

   "S" is for "STOP !!". 

     

   So I am forced to abandon the very "traditional" Retro-Era 

   MC1488 and MC1489 Drivers and Receivers and instead to use 

   the "modern" MAX232-Family, generally, and using the MAX249 

   chip specifically. A "Companion Chip" for my MC68681 DUART 

   chip, so to speak. I like that I do only need one chip which

   requires only the +5V DC Power Line. It makes them a pair. 

    

   So No, I was not referring to the Backplane's Serial IO lines 

   and instead I was specifically referring to the one - And Only 

   One - +5V DC Power Input and RCBus NOT Providing the +12V DC  

   nor the -12V DC Power Lines. 

    

   Up until my switch to the RCBus, I had been stubbornly clinging 

   to using the MC1488 and MC1489 Drivers and Receivers respectively.

   Now I have no choice but to use the MAX232-family of chips. 

    

   I have been trying to hold onto the "Retro" Chips of the Days,   

   in my college years, 1979 - 1983 roughly, for using these,  

   and ONLY using the chips that were actually used back then. 

    

   [ And don't even get me started on using USB - 

      - No Flame Wars Please !!! ] 

      

   For me, personally, building "Retro Computers" has meant  

   stubbornly sticking to the chips that I knew back then in 

   my "college years" and ONLY using very "modern" chips that 

   did not exist back then, and very reluctantly switching to 

   "modern chips", that were invented in later years. 

     

   Each and every one of us individuals has to define, for 

   himself or herself, what "retro" means and which chips  

   are, or are not, "Vintage Retro" chips.  And choose those  

   for building their "Retro-Computers". Or not use them. This 

   is, I think, an extremely individual and personal decision 

   and I don't welcome the opinions of others who disagree.  

   My Decision and My Choice are MINE and Yours are for YOU 

   but not necessarily the same for me. 

     

   Please be respectful of the choices and decisions of other  

   people. If they don't match your choices and opinions, then 

   PLEASE "Bite Your Tongue" and keep your opinions to yourself.

   Be Respectful, Please !! 

   

   Thanks All,

   Harry  

      
========================================================================

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[Mark T]

I don’t think using RCBUS prevents you from using the 1488 and 1489, the +/- 12v supply can be connected from a separate source to the board containing the 1488 and 1489.

I’d be interested in your design of glue logic for your board if you would like to share a schematic sometime.

[Bill Shen]

I looked up the PGA socket for my 68302 board; it was a 13x13 PGA socket with more socket pins than needed, so I just removed the surplus pins.  They were acquired many years ago, so probably not from peconnectors.com.  I think you can add more pins to peconnectors' 13x13 128pins HWS4514 to accommodate 68302.
The 68302 socket on eBay is rather expensive, you may want to consider a more flexible 13x13 socket like www.ebay.com/item/296831159251 which is 13x13 good for 68030, 68020, 68302, but has additional holes to add addition machined pins.  The price is reasonable, $30 for 15 sockets.
Bill

[Bill Shen]

Correction to eBay PGA socket link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/296831159251

[Harry S. Speer]

    

   20:31, 8:31 PM, Sunday, February 8th, 2026 

   To: Michelle & Retro-Comp in Re: MC68302 & Ebay Item 132873249982

     

   Michelle - 

   Congrats !! Yes, Those sockets appear to be compatible also, 

   like the Ebay UK ones, But I didn't mention them because I  

   have already emailed that seller and he/she is unwilling to 

   sell anything less than the full tube for $100+ and I 

   simply cannot afford that price. Especially not for using

   just 2 of them.   

     

   So Congrats and Thanks on Finding them, But No, that 

   listing is not helpful for me buying just a few of those 

   sockets.       

   I only have 2 of the MC68302 cards, from Mark Durham, 

   and I don't want to shell out that kind of cash to use 

   them.    

    

   So, For now, I am putting those 2x  MC68302 cards, 

   back into the box they came from, and re-focusing on the 

   simpler "single-function-chips" like a CPU, or Flash, 

   or EEPROM, SRAM, and a DUART. Simpler Chips and easier 

   for me to understand. The MC683xx microcontrollers are

   off my list for future use. Too Complex. Oh well. Lesson 

   learned. 

       

   Thanks again,

   Harry 

   cc: self  

===============================================================================

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[Tom Storey]

This socket appears to be compatible with the 68302:

https://www.peconnectors.com/sockets-pga-cpu-and-memory/hws5733/

Or am I missing something?

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[Tom Storey]

Yes, I am missing something. Just failing really hard at counting right now. Nevermind. :-)

If you were willing, you could take a socket intended for the 030 and add extra pins to make it compatible with a 302 though.

https://www.peconnectors.com/sockets-pga-cpu-and-memory/hws4514/

Assuming all of those extra holes in the middle are in-fact there, then popping a few pins out of some turned pin socket strips and pressing them into the PGA socket would be a potential solution.

You either make do, or don't make. :-)

[Harry Speer]

I did a Screen-Capture of the Motorola MC68302 PGA Pinout directly from the Motorola Manual for the MC68302. I wanted the exact PGA   Pins Layout to match the pinouts available PGA Sockets to buy online. 

I have attached this .png file as is. See attached Photo. 

I hope that people will then see exactly what I am talking about.

As for my use of the MC68302 "microcontroller" there are more problems for me there than just matching the hardware requirements, as I have stated in this series of notes from me and others. 

So I am wanting to end this topic here and hope that people "get the message" to "move on".

I am NOT going to use the 683xx family of "microcontrollers" that are software compatible with 68000 CPU code.

Instead,  I am now looking at using the double-wide protoboard I ordered from Steve Cousins Small Computer website.

I am hoping to receive it soon.  

This will give me a LOT more space to layout wire-wrap sockets with enough space between them for my 

old hands and old eyes. My disabilities make using the "tiny" RCBus "standard" size boards, about 4-inches x 4-inches. 

Thus my conversing with Steve Cousins and me buying one of his newest prototype boards. 

So I am looking at a 68000 64-pins DIP CPU, likely a 68HC000 16 MHz DIP Here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124963591558

Into this Socket Here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155928522095

So, as I said, The MC68302 Is NOT going to happen. Time for people to Move-ON.

Thanks,

HSS