Alibaba

[Wolfgang Leander]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Wolfgang Leander <wolf...@oceanicdreams.com>
Date: Jan 3, 2007 9:48 AM
Subject: Fwd: Others
To: por...@alibaba-inc.com

Dear Porter:

 

You simply cannot ignore these two messages: Dr. Brian Darvell and Jason Heller are not about to give up. Neither are all the others who became aware of Alibaba's shameful role in the global shark fin trade.

 

As Jason Heller put it very succintly (I had the same idea a few weeks ago), Alibaba could stop acting as a broker in the shark fin trade, and turn this into a very favorable PR campaign for themselves. But it goes beyond that, of course. There are ethical issues that count even more, and I truly believe that once you and all your colleagues, including your CEO, realize that Alibaba is taking a bold step forward to halt the destruction of our oceans, you will feel that you are actively and consciously contributing to a very worthy cause. You will feel that you are a responsible citizen of this world that knows no boundaries.

 

Porter: There are situations in life where one HAS to take sides. This is such a situation. You either are for the shark fin business or you are against it. We all trust you will choose to to do the right thing.

 

Best,

 

Wolfgang

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jason Heller < ja...@divephotoguide.com>
Date: Jan 3, 2007 2:02 PM
Subject: RE: Others
To: respectpro...@googlegroups.com , ali...@alibaba-inc.com
Cc: por...@alibaba-inc.com, cspl...@alibaba-inc.com, respectpro...@googlegroups.com

 

Greetings -

 

Firstly, let me say congratulations on your position in the Chinese

marketplace. As a veteran in the internet marketing industry, I can

appreciate that.

 

I am a representative of a consortium of media companies, some of

which are part of this distribution list and are following the evolution

of this situation, and will launch a full out campaign against Alibaba

and any other company supporting the violent degradation of our

ocean inhabitants. Within our industry we have the ability to reach

a couple of million people, many of whom have influence over others

in theier societal groups. However...

 

I also run a large media buying company and have the relationships 
and wherewithal to leverage relationships with many of the largest

online media properties, including Yahoo, which as you know Mr. Ma

has a joint venture in place for China. How do you feel Yahoo, a

publicly traded company will feel to know that they are indirectly

associated with such a travesty? How will their investor relations

people feel when they have to deal with all the inquries from concerned

investors? If Mr. Ma hasn;t been apprised of this situation, that will be

an interesting wake up call!

 

As a marketer, you can turn this into a huge positive press opportunity

for yourselves. Just think of the headlines in these environmentally

concious times "Alibaba supports our changing planet and puts the

right foot forward - online marketplace removes shark fin products".

I can guarantee that the PR value of this approach will far outweight

the earnings you generate from sales of these items. Our media

consortium will support this positive PR and you and we can both issue

press releases about the wonderful resolution to the situation.

 

Otherwise - what are your options? Stay in the sights of media and

environmental groups, generate bad press, generate a crisis for your

PR people to deal with all the bad press generated as a result? There
are costs associated with this for you. You can easily turn this into a
positive PR opportunity, while more importantly, doing the right thing.

 

This seems like a very simple situation - you generate very little

revenue from these products, and can actually take a financial hit from

the bad publicity this will generate if the items are not removed from your

listings.

 

I will put a call into a senior contact at Yahoo this week to begin the

conversations. I would like to not have to spend my time and energy
dealing with this situation, but I will do so if you do not comply with
global ethics. Please have your head of marketing, PR or investor

relations contact me ASAP to discuss the most amicable resolution

to this situation.

 

I look forward to your prompt response.

 

 

 

 

**************************************************************************
Jason Heller
DivePhotoGuide.com
Founder
Tel:  (917) 806-4600

Fax: (917) 677-8696
Email: ja...@divephotoguide.com
www.divephotoguide.com

"Matching the needs of underwater photographers of all levels with
the best the dive industry has to offer."
**************************************************************************

---

From: respectpro...@googlegroups.com on behalf of Brian W. Darvell
Sent: Wed 1/3/2007 12:25 AM
To: ali...@alibaba-inc.com
Cc: por...@alibaba-inc.com; cspl...@alibaba-inc.com; respectpro...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re:Others

 

Hi,
        I trust that you all have had a good Christmas, knowing that since I wrote last about  20 MILLION sharks have died for the sake of vanity and quick profit. I know because I drive past them every morning.

        I have given you plenty of time to think.  It is particularly disappointing that I have had no reply because I lived in hope that we could have a rational discussion for mutual benefit.  I had hoped that we could meet face to face to deal with an issue that goes beyond a local, no-account subsistence trade.  In matters of global destruction neutrality is NOT an option: one either makes an effort or one is culpable: a knowing, venal, deliberate acceptance of guilt for an active participation in a trade that is, quite simply, wrong.  there is no half-way house, there is no way to hold disinterest, there is no way to escape responsibility for a share of a process that has no justification beyond profit.

        And please do not think that because this is a corporate issue that you can escape personal guilt either.   Every single employee that fails to make an effort is complaisant in the trade, is equally guilty of a passive, but no less culpable, role.  By failing to admit, you condone; by failing to try, you encourage; by failing to think, you promote.

        I was under the impression, and everyone would like to believe, that Mr Ma is a smart man.  Since we have not had an intelligent response from you, I suspect that he is completely unaware of this problem.  In this you are failing your boss.  It does not help to protect him from the unpleasantness you perceive here.   Be assured of this: we are not going away.  We are more persistent than you might imagine, we have an attention span of decades.  Every opportunity we get we shall castigate your insensitivity and mercenary credo. 

        Despite those facts - ponder them, please - we can still achieve the sensible, balanced, rational outcome.  I am still available, and will remain so indefinitely, to talk to anyone, and Mr Ma in particular - if you have the courage to bring this to his attention - to explain, step by gory step, what is happening.

        I do hope to hear from you, and I wish you a prosperous New Year - but not at the sharks' expense.

Thank you.

BWD




On 2006-11-06 I wrote:
==================

Hi,
        Sorry not to have had a reply.

        By now, you will have had several earnest messages from Mr Leander and others.  I urge you to consider the substance and import of these messages very carefully.  Short-term profit is not a sufficient justifcation for extermination of a crucial segment of the marine ecosystem.  We will all suffer as a result.

        You are no doubt aware of the recent fisheries report: we are in the red in this particular account.  Strange as it may seem, removing sharks will make this worse, not better.

        Your company could become a great force for good  - and it could cost you very little effort.

Thanks for your time.

BWD

==========
Hi,
        Many thanks for the reply.
        
        I think you have missed the point.  Your legality is not at issue.  CITES, likewise, is not the point.  The IUCN Red List says much more.  There is general agreement amongst those who study these things that sharks are GENERALLY endangered because of the intensive, indiscriminate and - yes - illegal activities of those who drive the trade.

        Can you explain otherwise why those who attempt to photograph the principals and their warehouses go in fear of their lives?  This is not a trade of which to be proud.

        This is exploitation of vulnerable species on a grand scale, and only for what is short-term profit.  It is illegal because much of the fishing occurs in territorial waters where it is explicitly banned.  CITES listed species are also included, as is well known.  The trade is controlled largely by criminal organisations.  You profit by association with them.  In fact, worse than that, you are actively supporting these activities by allowing them to promote the trade through your pages.  You assume guilt by association.

        You could do your bit for conservation and legality by refusing to carry such trade requests and ads.  You could avoid being labelled as actively suppoorting criminal activity.  As of now, you cannot claim ignorance.

        You will know, of course, that finning is inhumane, wasteful, and entriely unsustainable.  The effects of removal of sharks from the seas of the world wil extend well beyond your fond imaginings of a species the world could do without - it cannot.  The sustainibilty of of many other fisheries depends, in its curious way, on the presence of sharks.   You will be culpable as promoting the collapse of those fisheries, blame which I am sure you are keen to avoid.

        In the grand scheme, your profits from supporting the trade can only be a very small amount.  It actually would not hurt you to drop it.  On the other hand, your assistance and cooperation in this would be worth more than  money can buy to the efforts of conservationists around the world who risk the lives to mimimize the damage and protect global resources.

        Together, you see, we can make a difference.  But if you insist on making money in this way, you can only be held responsible for complicity in theft on an unprecedented scale.  "Real Trade" does not get involved in exploitation, intimidation, smuggling, triads and territorial water violations.

        I should appreciate your comments.

Thanks,

BWD



At 2006-10-28 11:21, you wrote:
====================================================

Dear Prof. B W Darvell,

Thanks for your email.

Our listing policy about shark products is in accordance with the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) http://www.cites.org/eng/disc/what.shtml.

If you have any doubt about our policy, you can contact our legal department by fax at 00852 22155200 Attn: Legal Department.

If you have any further question, please feel free to contact us.

 

Sincerely Yours,
Alibaba service team
Email: ali...@alibaba-inc.com
--------------------------------------------------------
http://trademanager.alibaba.com
With TradeManager, real trade begins now.

=================Original message text===============
From: hrd...@hku.hk
Date: 2006-10-26 23:04:33.0
Subject: Others

Sender: hrd...@hku.hk
Subject: Customer Questions from Help > Contact Us

Theme: Others
==========================================================
Customer Name: Prof. B W Darvell
Member ID:
Email: hrd...@hku.hk
Subject: Shark products
Message Text: I should like to express my disappointment that you are permitting environmentally disastrous trading to occur through your webpages, i.e. for shark products, and especially fins.

I would have hoped that you would have learnt through the Disney fiasco in Hong Kong that such trade is reprehensible as it unsustainable. The fact that is is largely driven through criminal activities should be enough to cause you to avoid such trading. You are contributing to the destruction of sharks and reefs.

I should appreciate your response.

Thanks,

BWD

==============End of original message text===========

====================================================

Dr. Brian W. Darvell    

The University of Hong Kong     
tel:    +852 2859 0303
fax:    +852 2548 9464

--
Wolfgang Leander
wolf...@oceanicdreams.com
www.oceanicdreams.com


--
Wolfgang Leander
wolf...@oceanicdreams.com
www.oceanicdreams.com

[Dr. Alexander J. Godknecht]

Dear Wolfgang and Oceanrealm

Thank you very much for taking action against Alibaba!

If you think it is of help, the Shark Foundation will
also start getting active against Alibaba.

Unfortunately, I'll be away and offline from now until
Monday 15th so I can only start doing anything then.

Please send me an email on how we could possibly help.

Kind regards

Alexander

--
Dr. A. J. Godknecht, Chairman
Shark Foundation, sh...@shark.ch, http://www.shark.ch
Editor Shark Info, si...@sharkinfo.ch, http://www.sharkinfo.ch
Bluetenstrasse 4, CH-8057 Zuerich, Switzerland / Schweiz
Tel. +41(0) 44 311'67'14 Fax +41 44 311'67'22

> <mailto:respectpro...@googlegroups.com>, ali...@alibaba-inc.com
> <mailto:ali...@alibaba-inc.com>
> Cc: por...@alibaba-inc.com <mailto:por...@alibaba-inc.com>,
> cspl...@alibaba-inc.com <mailto:cspl...@alibaba-inc.com>,
> respectpro...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:respectpro...@googlegroups.com>

> Email: ja...@divephotoguide.com <mailto:ja...@divephotoguide.com>
> www.divephotoguide.com <http://www.divephotoguide.com/>

>
> "Matching the needs of underwater photographers of all levels with
> the best the dive industry has to offer."
> **************************************************************************
>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* respectpro...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:respectpro...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Brian W.
> Darvell
> *Sent:* Wed 1/3/2007 12:25 AM
> *To:* ali...@alibaba-inc.com <mailto:ali...@alibaba-inc.com>
> *Cc:* por...@alibaba-inc.com <mailto:por...@alibaba-inc.com>;
> cspl...@alibaba-inc.com <mailto:cspl...@alibaba-inc.com>;
> respectpro...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:respectpro...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re:Others

>> Email: ali...@alibaba-inc.com <mailto:ali...@alibaba-inc.com>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> http://trademanager.alibaba.com <http://trademanager.alibaba.com/>
>> With TradeManager, real trade begins now. <http://www.alibaba.com/>
>>
>> =================Original message text===============
>> From: hrd...@hku.hk <mailto:hrd...@hku.hk>

>> Date: 2006-10-26 23:04:33.0
>> Subject: Others
>>

>> Sender: hrd...@hku.hk <mailto:hrd...@hku.hk>

>> Subject: Customer Questions from Help > Contact Us
>>
>> Theme: Others
>> ==========================================================
>> Customer Name: Prof. B W Darvell
>> Member ID:

>> Email: hrd...@hku.hk <mailto:hrd...@hku.hk>

>> Subject: Shark products
>> Message Text: I should like to express my disappointment that you are
>> permitting environmentally disastrous trading to occur through your
>> webpages, i.e. for shark products, and especially fins.
>>
>> I would have hoped that you would have learnt through the Disney
>> fiasco in Hong Kong that such trade is reprehensible as it
>> unsustainable. The fact that is is largely driven through criminal
>> activities should be enough to cause you to avoid such trading. You
>> are contributing to the destruction of sharks and reefs.
>>
>> I should appreciate your response.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> BWD
>>
>> ==============End of original message text===========
> ====================================================
>
> Dr. Brian W. Darvell
>
> The University of Hong Kong
> tel: +852 2859 0303
> fax: +852 2548 9464
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Wolfgang Leander

> wolf...@oceanicdreams.com <mailto:wolf...@oceanicdreams.com>
> www.oceanicdreams.com <http://www.oceanicdreams.com/>
>
>
> --
> Wolfgang Leander
> wolf...@oceanicdreams.com <mailto:wolf...@oceanicdreams.com>
> www.oceanicdreams.com <http://www.oceanicdreams.com>
>
> >