Re: HW Question for 2/28

[Maia Johnson]

I believe that in the future there will be an increasing number of people who veiw eating animals or wearing them offensive. There are people today who believe this but i think that community will grow immensly. I do not believe, however, that this will be the norm. Human beings have always been programmed to eat animals, it is our nature and it would be ludicris to just stop. The problem with  eating animals is just how the animals are treated before they are killed that is morally wrong, such as the way chickens are kept. If we had just treated the animals with some respect it wouldnt be a big deal to eat them. The animals we eat should be treated like animals, like the way they were treated 50 years ago- "in contact with the sun, the earth and the gaze of a farmer." now they are factory raised, indoor where diease and death plague the animals.  If we had a moral code towards "inferior animals" it would be perfectly okay to eat them because it is part of our nature.

On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Jay Levine <jaymle...@gmail.com> wrote:

Welcome back from break!  As we begin our exploration of animal
rights, I'd like to pose this question, based on the first few pages
from Pollan's essay, "An Animal's Place":

Do you think that there will be a time in the future (near or far)
that humans will view eating meat and/or wearing animal skin as
morally indefensible as we do slavery today?  Why or why not?  Explain
your position,citing one example from the reading...

[Jay Levine]

[Rhianna Waterman]

 I agree with Maia. As generations continue on, more people are going to become aware of the abuses of animals and find that eating and wearing animal products are offensive. Pollan states "We need to stick to an accepted model and eat animals or we need to look away, change our minds to animal prolife position and become vegetarians as some people already did." Basically he is saying that one can continue to be aware of the animal's mistreatment and continue to eat the animal, or one can simply turn their head and stop eating meat. Today, vegetarians argue about the poor and cruel treatments of animals. I believe people are beginning to feel guilty when they see the harsh conditions the animals live in. If one simply treats the animals properly and not keep them cooped up in cramped, unsanitary conditions then more people would be willing to eat them because the animals would be treated properly; making the human feel less guilty to eat them.

[Phil Sasso-Flanagan]

i agree with Maia and Rhi.  the public is becoming more aware of the mistreatment of animals, and its not just in fast food restaurants anymore.  i think the cruelty will turn more people off and hopefully it will change the ways of the slaughter houses to be more humane.  while i don't think this is going to change any time soon, i hope it does in the near future because it is disgusting and i like to eat, but sometimes i just feel bad because i know what really went on to make the products.

[Nick Roy]

I agree with all three of you, and I think that we should definitely treat animals with more respect, but I also think people won't do it until they see the immorality of it. For example, if you showed everyone in the world Food Inc. I bet most people would want to change the overall conditions for animals.

[bridget stemmler]

I completely disagree with what is said in this article. The whole concept of "speciesism" is a bit ridiculous. As much as animal rights activists will say otherwise, there hasn't been scientific data to prove that animals are capable of being self aware. They are not equal to a white man as a black man is, and I find the comparison of speciesism to racism absurd. I in no way advocate the mindless torture of animals, but I certainly will not be picketing for a pig's "constitutional rights" anytime soon.

 

On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Jay Levine <jaymle...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jaclyn Solimine]

 Unless they make a synthetic meat that tastes almost like the real thing, I don't think people will view eating meat as wrong in the near future because it is natural to want to eat meat. However, the way we treat animals will most likely change. Pollan mentions having equal consideration of interests for animals. I believe that in the near future, animals will have some rights which would allow them to have better lives without the suffering that they endure in factories. If their suffering is unnecessary, like to make a fur coat or do testing on them, I do think that it will be viewed as morally wrong.

[bridget stemmler]

and i'm sorry, "if pigs don't exist they can't be wronged" ? So these whack jobs would rather have no animals in the world than for some of them to be eaten? I really doubt the animals would agree with that, you know, if they knew they were alive.

[Stephanie Pelletier]

Everyone obviously has different opinions about whether or not animals have feelings and if we as humans should feel morally bound to them, but my own feeling is that we are unaware of how animals feel and will most likely never know.  Eating animals is one thing, but the way we go about preparing it and making it available for consumption is basically torture when the animals have no say in the matter.  We know it is wrong.  The efficiency of the system however is not going to allow for us to make a drastic alteration to change this just based on some people's beliefs.  This may change some minds in the near future, but it is also hard for humans to change their habits for whatever scenario.  I have no problem with people eating meat mainly because it has become a cycle of our lives.

[Jay Levine]

Some great points already!  Bridget, I agree with you in that I found that comment about "if pigs didn't exist they couldn't be wronged" a bit strange.  However, I think Singer's most compelling point is about equal consideration of interests, not of constitutional rights or anything that extreme; no one is asking us to choose an animal's life over a human's.  Rather, our preference for  the taste of meat endorses a rather brutal system in which pain and suffering are built into the "costs of production".  As for someone's comment about pain and consciousness: no one can determine if a clam can feel pain, or if it "feels" as we do, but scientists have used lab rats, rabbits, etc. for cosmetics testing because the animals tested on clearly exhibit some sort of painful reaction.  In the end, can we ultimately know what another human being even feels?  We have a good idea, but can't really know for sure.

[Emily DelDotto]

It's been accepted in society to eat meat, and not many people are interested in the alternative synthetic meats. The way the animals are treated I think is wrong, and will probably change in th future. People are becoming more aware of the torture the animals go through, and over time the treatment of animals will hopefully get better. However, it will be hard for humans to change what we are already custom to. I don't think there is any problem with eating meat, I just think people will feel more guilty of the treatment of animals and hopefully this will change.

[Egan Davis]

It would be completely ridiculous to say that people would stop eating meat and wearing fur all together. However, as we move farther into the future, I think everyone will become more educated about what goes into McDonalds, KFC, etc. So, obviously the ideas of eating meat and wearing fur will definitely not die off completely. However, I feel that they will decrease dramatically once people realize what they are doing. Also, people will probably realize that there are better substitutes for actual fur and animal meat.

[George Bonner]

in regard to fur, i have no problem with the synthetic fur as long as
there are no deadly sideffects. i personally know nothing on the
subject so i couldnt care less.

On Feb 28, 8:41 pm, Egan Davis <egan.dav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It would be completely ridiculous to say that people would stop eating meat
> and wearing fur all together. However, as we move farther into the future, I
> think everyone will become more educated about what goes into McDonalds,
> KFC, etc. So, obviously the ideas of eating meat and wearing fur
> will definitely not die off completely. However, I feel that they will
> decrease dramatically once people realize what they are doing. Also, people
> will probably realize that there are better substitutes for actual fur and
> animal meat.
>

> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Emily DelDotto <edeldotto...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > It's been accepted in society to eat meat, and not many people are
> > interested in the alternative synthetic meats. The way the animals are
> > treated I think is wrong, and will probably change in th future. People are
> > becoming more aware of the torture the animals go through, and over time the
> > treatment of animals will hopefully get better. However, it will be hard for
> > humans to change what we are already custom to. I don't think there is any
> > problem with eating meat, I just think people will feel more guilty of the
> > treatment of animals and hopefully this will change.
>

> >>>> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 5:21 PM, Jaclyn Solimine <jvsolim...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>>>>  Unless they make a synthetic meat that tastes almost like the real
> >>>>> thing, I don't think people will view eating meat as wrong in the near
> >>>>> future because it is natural to want to eat meat. However, the way we treat
> >>>>> animals will most likely change. Pollan mentions having equal consideration
> >>>>> of interests for animals. I believe that in the near future, animals will
> >>>>> have some rights which would allow them to have better lives without the
> >>>>> suffering that they endure in factories. If their suffering is unnecessary,
> >>>>> like to make a fur coat or do testing on them, I do think that it will be

> >>>>> viewed as morally wrong.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Zachary Brown]

I believe that there will be less and less animal skin/ fur clothing as time goes on, but not the eating of animals. Meat is a staple in most of the population's diet across the world. You can't just take  a major food group from people. I do believe that harvesting animals for their fur and skins is wrong and will soon die off though. People are beginning to see how factories treat the animals they skin, and the population will soon change their minds against it. There are many alternatives to fur as well. The fake fur doesn't harm any animals and is a bit cheaper too.  

[Phil]

I agree with do6. Even though everyone says that there are supplements for meat now, I think you still can't get the nutrients and be full by eating nuts and beans or whatever people claim to be just as good. I would take meat over any vegetarian meal any day, even if its mcdonalds. But on the other hand I do feel bad about how most of the animals are treated and fur coats....no.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

[George Bonner]

i wrote a big thing earlier but it didnt show up on the timeline.

but it pretty can be summed up with

 dogs are cool,

 pigs are ugly,

 pigs taste good.

stop the wooly bullies

and i had bacon for dinner.

[George Bonner]

i wrote a big thing earlier but it didnt show up on the timeline.

but it pretty *much* can be summed up with

 dogs are cool,
 pigs are ugly,
 pigs taste good.
stop the wooly bullies
and i had bacon for dinner.

> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Phil <psassoflana...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I agree with do6. Even though everyone says that there are supplements for
> > meat now, I think you still can't get the nutrients and be full by eating
> > nuts and beans or whatever people claim to be just as good. I would take
> > meat over any vegetarian meal any day, even if its mcdonalds. But on the
> > other hand I do feel bad about how most of the animals are treated and fur
> > coats....no.
>
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
>

> > Zachary Brown <zachbrown31...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >I believe that there will be less and less animal skin/ fur clothing as
> > time
> > >goes on, but not the eating of animals. Meat is a staple in most of the
> > >population's diet across the world. You can't just take  a major food
> > group
> > >from people. I do believe that harvesting animals for their fur and skins
> > is
> > >wrong and will soon die off though. People are beginning to see
> > >how factories treat the animals they skin, and the population will soon
> > >change their minds against it. There are many alternatives to fur as well.
> > >The fake fur doesn't harm any animals and is a bit cheaper too.

> > >On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Emily DelDotto <edeldotto...@gmail.com

> > >wrote:
>
> > >> It's been accepted in society to eat meat, and not many people are
> > >> interested in the alternative synthetic meats. The way the animals are
> > >> treated I think is wrong, and will probably change in th future. People
> > are
> > >> becoming more aware of the torture the animals go through, and over time
> > the
> > >> treatment of animals will hopefully get better. However, it will be hard
> > for
> > >> humans to change what we are already custom to. I don't think there is
> > any
> > >> problem with eating meat, I just think people will feel more guilty of
> > the
> > >> treatment of animals and hopefully this will change.
>

> > >> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Jay Levine <jaymlevin...@gmail.com

> > jvsolim...@gmail.com>wrote:

>
> > >>>>>>  Unless they make a synthetic meat that tastes almost like the real
> > >>>>>> thing, I don't think people will view eating meat as wrong in the
> > near
> > >>>>>> future because it is natural to want to eat meat. However, the way
> > we treat
> > >>>>>> animals will most likely change. Pollan mentions having equal
> > consideration
> > >>>>>> of interests for animals. I believe that in the near future, animals
> > will
> > >>>>>> have some rights which would allow them to have better lives without
> > the
> > >>>>>> suffering that they endure in factories. If their suffering is
> > unnecessary,
> > >>>>>> like to make a fur coat or do testing on them, I do think that it
> > will be

[Michaela Pierro]

I think people will become more aware of the horrible way animals are treated and I do think that more people may become vegetarian knowing how many animals are treated. I understand that there are alternatives to meat, but it clearly isn't the same.  I believe that the standards of how animals are treated will increase in the future as more become aware of this issue.

[George Bonner]

also, i found this for you vegans out there...

http://www.virtual-china.org/2007/02/
gotta love the chinese

On Feb 28, 8:55 pm, Phil <psassoflana...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree with do6. Even though everyone says that there are supplements for meat now, I think you still can't get the nutrients and be full by eating nuts and beans or whatever people claim to be just as good. I would take meat over any vegetarian meal any day, even if its mcdonalds. But on the other hand I do feel bad about how most of the animals are treated and fur coats....no.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
>
>
>
> Zachary Brown <zachbrown31...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I believe that there will be less and less animal skin/ fur clothing as time
> >goes on, but not the eating of animals. Meat is a staple in most of the
> >population's diet across the world. You can't just take  a major food group
> >from people. I do believe that harvesting animals for their fur and skins is
> >wrong and will soon die off though. People are beginning to see
> >how factories treat the animals they skin, and the population will soon
> >change their minds against it. There are many alternatives to fur as well.
> >The fake fur doesn't harm any animals and is a bit cheaper too.

> >On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Emily DelDotto <edeldotto...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> It's been accepted in society to eat meat, and not many people are
> >> interested in the alternative synthetic meats. The way the animals are
> >> treated I think is wrong, and will probably change in th future. People are
> >> becoming more aware of the torture the animals go through, and over time the
> >> treatment of animals will hopefully get better. However, it will be hard for
> >> humans to change what we are already custom to. I don't think there is any
> >> problem with eating meat, I just think people will feel more guilty of the
> >> treatment of animals and hopefully this will change.
>

> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 5:21 PM, Jaclyn Solimine <jvsolim...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>>>>>  Unless they make a synthetic meat that tastes almost like the real
> >>>>>> thing, I don't think people will view eating meat as wrong in the near
> >>>>>> future because it is natural to want to eat meat. However, the way we treat
> >>>>>> animals will most likely change. Pollan mentions having equal consideration
> >>>>>> of interests for animals. I believe that in the near future, animals will
> >>>>>> have some rights which would allow them to have better lives without the
> >>>>>> suffering that they endure in factories. If their suffering is unnecessary,
> >>>>>> like to make a fur coat or do testing on them, I do think that it will be

[Phil]

That's a lot of pork.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

[Emily Lawler]

Personally, I hate the idea of wearing real fur clothing today. Back when cavemen were around, wearing fur was a neseccity and today there are so many other alternatives that the real fur is simply for pleasure and not needed. I think that people will soon realize this and the trend of real fur clothing will fade and eventually die out. As far as eating animals go, it is difficult to say whether they will soon gain the rights of humans. Michael Pollan does say that "the ehite man's circles of moral considderation" opened up to blacks, women, and homosexuals, so it will eventually open up to animals as an end result. I do not think that getting rid of farming and eating meat is a reality because so many different factors depend on eating meat, such as nutrients, the cost, and jobs. There are way too many things relying on eating meat that getting rid of it is unrealistic. Pollan does make the point that the animals eat themselves, so we should be able to eat them. Treating them right is important, but it is simply part of the food chain for us to end up eating animals.

[Calé Frost]

George... note to self: never go to China. I've watched some horrific
videos about things they do to dogs and cats.

On Monday, February 28, 2011, Calé Frost <libera...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think we'll become more knowledgable on the subject of factory farms
> and realize how unnessecary wearing fur has become, but I don't think
> animals will have all the same rights as human beings. I mean, they'll
> probably gain more general ones, of course, but do we need to get a
> wild horse's permission to film it and put it on TV? Uh, no. Horses
> don't watch TV, so they don't care. :P Extending rights to that extent
> would be dumb.
> And I feel bad for those poor geese. :c Only the French..

[Jen Shaw]

I do think that in the future there will be a time in which humans
will no longer eat animals and wear the fur that they provide. it may
seam unrealistic now but think about it, how many people 300 years ago
thought that we would actually have all of these factories
slaughtering animals, that seams a bit unrealistic. over time people
will soon realize what is actually happening when these animals are
killed and more and more people will begin to become vegetarians or
vegans. as pollan says the blacks, women, and homosexuals all
received their freedom, so soon enough animals will too. i myself am
not a vegetarian, but if producers come out with a better tasting
supplement for meat, i would have no problem changing along with the
rest of the world.

On Feb 28, 9:51 pm, Calé Frost <liberalman...@gmail.com> wrote:
> George... note to self: never go to China. I've watched some horrific
> videos about things they do to dogs and cats.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 28, 2011, Calé Frost <liberalman...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think we'll become more knowledgable on the subject of factory farms
> > and realize how unnessecary wearing fur has become, but I don't think
> > animals will have all the same rights as human beings. I mean, they'll
> > probably gain more general ones, of course, but do we need to get a
> > wild horse's permission to film it and put it on TV? Uh, no. Horses
> > don't watch TV, so they don't care. :P Extending rights to that extent
> > would be dumb.
> > And I feel bad for those poor geese. :c Only the French..
>

> > On Monday, February 28, 2011, Emily Lawler <elawle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Personally, I hate the idea of wearing real fur clothing today. Back when cavemen were around, wearing fur was a neseccity and today there are so many other alternatives that the real fur is simply for pleasure and not needed. I think that people will soon realize this and the trend of real fur clothing will fade and eventually die out. As far as eating animals go, it is difficult to say whether they will soon gain the rights of humans. Michael Pollan does say that "the ehite man's circles of moral considderation" opened up to blacks, women, and homosexuals, so it will eventually open up to animals as an end result. I do not think that getting rid of farming and eating meat is a reality because so many different factors depend on eating meat, such as nutrients, the cost, and jobs. There are way too many things relying on eating meat that getting rid of it is unrealistic. Pollan does make the point that the animals eat themselves, so we should be able to eat them. Treating them right is important, but it is simply part of the food chain for us to end up eating animals.
>

> >> On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Phil <psassoflana...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> That's a lot of pork.
>
> >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
>

[Calé Frost]

I think we'll become more knowledgable on the subject of factory farms
and realize how unnessecary wearing fur has become, but I don't think
animals will have all the same rights as human beings. I mean, they'll
probably gain more general ones, of course, but do we need to get a
wild horse's permission to film it and put it on TV? Uh, no. Horses
don't watch TV, so they don't care. :P Extending rights to that extent
would be dumb.
And I feel bad for those poor geese. :c Only the French..

[Lucille Sirois]

Though I believe that many people understand the gruesome details of
slaughter houses and how their meat is prepared, they willingly push
these concepts aside. Pollen was one to do this becasue he was
reading Animal Liberation while he was eating his steak, and through
his reading he ended up finishing his meal. It is common for us to
not throw out our old ideals becuase we have become used to them. I
know that I am not going to be the first one to willingly give up my
dinner of ribs or hamburgers, but many people will because they are
becoming more aware of the conditons like the constricting cages cows
are kept in. As time passes on, these ideas will be more and more
accepted, but things will not completley change. Even if there is a
synthetic substance for meat that didn't taste that bad, we can only
think about how much higher the price will be and the burden it is
going to place on our wallets.

> > >>>> >>> comment about "if pigs didn't exist they couldn't be wronged" a bit- Hide quoted text -

[Misa Tran]

Though it all depends on what you believe in and such.. I do think many more people will begin to become aware of the situation of animal rights in the future. Animal rights, however, will not be the same as human rights as Cale said. Singer states that cruelty to animals is the same as cruelty to black people.

"speciesism" = racism. <-- not so sure about that. 

[Calé Frost]

Woot I got referenced.