John Steele Sweeney Debates and Incidental Information
Jim McMillan
amazing place to conduct research. According to one source, JSS
conducted 113 debates. So far I've found information on 45 debates.
Here's a breakdown of the affiliations of the people he debated:
15 with Universalists
14 with Methodists
6 with Baptists
2 with Cumberland Presbyterians
2 with Free Thinkers
5 with unknown affiliation
1 with a fellow Restorationist, Thomas Munnell
May I repeat my request from a few days ago that I am interested in
any information, regardless of how insignificant, about John Steele
Sweeney? For example, I just found out that he is listed as one of the
"Church supported preachers" for the Western Heights congregation in
Texas. This is the link (http://www.westernheights.org/history.htm)
but the page is not available today. I was not aware that JSS held a
ministry in Texas, but the reference may simply be that he held a
meeting there.
So, if you run across any references to JSS, please let me know.
Thanks!
Jim
Jim McMillan
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Hugh Fulford <huf...@comcast.net>
Date: Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [STONE-CAMPBELL] John Steele Sweeney Debates and
Incidental Information
To: stone-c...@acu.edu
Jim:
Well over 30 yrs ago, I had an historical notation of a particular
debate that Jacob Ditzler, a Methodist, had with one of "our"
brethren. Somewhere along the way, involving various moves, I lost
that notation and have been unable to remember who the brother was
that Ditzler debated. Your post has caused me to now think it was J.
S. Sweeney. The debate dealt with the action/"mode" of baptism, and
in the course of the debate, Ditzler argued that a secondary meaning
of baptism is "sprinkle." Sweeney (or whomever) answered by pointing
out that a secondary meaning of believe is "to have an opinion" and
that a secondary meaning of saved is to be "pickled." Based on
secondary meanings, Sweeney (?) then offered this translation of Mk.
16:16: "He who has an opinion and is sprinkled shall be pickled." I
wonder if your research indicates that of the 14 Methodists brother
Sweeney debated whether Jacob Ditzler was one of them.
Hugh Fulford
Jim McMillan
From: Jim McMillan <james.l....@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [STONE-CAMPBELL] John Steele Sweeney Debates and
Incidental Information
To: stone-c...@acu.edu
Hugh,
So far, I've determined that JSS debated Ditzler at least four times:
1869 at Warrensburg, Missouri
1870 at Carlisle, Kentucky
1875 at Sherman, Texas
1883 at Horse Cave, Kentucky
Thomas Thrasher's Debate Encyclopedia lists 18 debates for Ditzler.
The JSS debates are not listed there, so that makes a total of 22
debates involving Ditzler. The Wilkes-Ditzler debate was published and
was on the subject of baptism, so Wilkes could also have been the
source for your "pickle" quotation.
Jim
On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Hugh Fulford <huf...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Jim:
>
> Well over 30 yrs ago, I had an historical notation of a particular debate
> that Jacob Ditzler, a Methodist, had with one of "our" brethren. Somewhere
> along the way, involving various moves, I lost that notation and have been
> unable to remember who the brother was that Ditzler debated. Your post has
> caused me to now think it was J. S. Sweeney. The debate dealt with the
> action/"mode" of baptism, and in the course of the debate, Ditzler argued
> that a secondary meaning of baptism is "sprinkle." Sweeney (or
> whomever) answered by pointing out that a secondary meaning of believe is
> "to have an opinion" and that a secondary meaning of saved is to be
> "pickled." Based on secondary meanings, Sweeney (?) then offered this
> translation of Mk. 16:16: "He who has an opinion and is sprinkled shall be
> pickled." I wonder if your research indicates that of the 14 Methodists
> brother Sweeney debated whether Jacob Ditzler was one of them.
>
> Hugh Fulford
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim McMillan
> To: stone-c...@acu.edu ; James L. McMillan
> Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 11:10 AM
> Subject: [STONE-CAMPBELL] John Steele Sweeney Debates and Incidental
> Information
Jim McMillan
From: royce bell <royc...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [STONE-CAMPBELL] John Steele Sweeney Debates and Incidental Information
Oops..hit the wrong button.
Jim...that site about J.S. Sweeney was first archived in October 2000,
but was taken down not long after the most recent archive on May 5,
2008. You can find the entire archive at
<http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.westernheights.org/history.htm>.
I checked that final date
(http://web.archive.org/web/20080525072841/http://www.westernheights.org/history.htm)
and found the reference you were seeking.
The Wayback Machine Internet archive is a wonderful resource, if one
is looking for now off-line web resources.
rpb
Royce Bell
San Bernardino
Sent from my iPad
Jim McMillan
From: Ray Downen <outr...@sofnet.com>
Date: Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [STONE-CAMPBELL] John Steele Sweeney Debates and Incidental Information
To: stone-c...@acu.edu
May I repeat my request from a few days ago that I am interested in any information, regardless of how insignificant, about John Steele Sweeney? For example, I just found out that he is listed as one of the "Church supported preachers" for the Western Heights congregation in Texas. This is the link ( http://www.westernheights.org/history.htm) but the page is not available today. I was not aware that JSS held a ministry in Texas, but the reference may simply be that he held a meeting there.
----------------
- RAY: Is it possible for a church to have supported an evangelist who had never held a ministry in their town or even a "meeting" there? Perhaps he had relatives or friends in the congregation who simply asked their brothers to join them in helping support evangelism elsewhere. Yes?
P O Box 4502 Joplin MO 64803-4502
< http://missionoutreach.org/ >
- But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:4-7 NIV
Jim McMillan
From: Alan Highers <ahig...@charter.net>
Date: Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [STONE-CAMPBELL] John Steele Sweeney Debates and Incidental Information
To: stone-c...@acu.edu
Jim
The famous Baptist debater, J. R. Graves, also debated Ditzler. I believe the Graves-Ditzler Debate was published in book form.
L. B. Wilkes of the Wilkes-Ditzler Debate is buried in Stockton, California. I have visited his grave.
Alan Highrs
---- Jim McMillan <james.l....@gmail.com> wrote:
=============
> Subject: [STONE-CAMPBELL] John Steele Sweeney Debates and Incidental
> Information
> My research on John Steele Sweeney is progressing. The web is an
> amazing place to conduct research. According to one source, JSS
> conducted 113 debates. So far I've found information on 45 debates.
>
> Here's a breakdown of the affiliations of the people he debated:
>
> 15 with Universalists
> 14 with Methodists
> 6 with Baptists
> 2 with Cumberland Presbyterians
> 2 with Free Thinkers
> 5 with unknown affiliation
> 1 with a fellow Restorationist, Thomas Munnell
>
> May I repeat my request from a few days ago that I am interested in
> any information, regardless of how insignificant, about John Steele
> Sweeney? For example, I just found out that he is listed as one of the
> "Church supported preachers" for the Western Heights congregation in
> Texas. This is the link (http://www.westernheights.org/history.htm)
> but the page is not available today. I was not aware that JSS held a
> ministry in Texas, but the reference may simply be that he held a
> meeting there.
>
Jim McMillan
From: Ancil Jenkins <anc...@bellsouth.net>
Date: Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: [STONE-CAMPBELL] John Steele Sweeney Debates and Incidental Information
To: stone-c...@acu.edu