How to utilise abandoned railways?
no.to...@gmail.com
and just concentrate on the technical aspects.
Let's approach the topic incrementally from the simplest principles:
If I've got a perfectly symetrical 2-axes, 4 wheel 'carriage' pulled
along a perfectly straight rail-track via a sky-hook, then what stops
it from 'going off the track' eventually?
If the flanges [are they called?] on the wheels rubbing against the
rails, are used as more than an extra safety, this seems a very
inefficient method.
I'd expect some method, like the dihederal of aircraft wings,
which stabilise the craft from 'flipping over' to be appicable.
For rail tracks which are very irregular, have other than steel
wheels been tried?
Isn't there a big problem where the difference in the height
at the joint of two rails has become significant? A step.
What about a system where a detector monitors the rail
conditions, ahead of the wheels?
To demonstrate this idea, consider the extreme idea
that the forward-monitor would detect that the
left rail was missing. Theoretically the train could
proceed by:
1. lift all the left wheels,
2 slide the carriage's center of gravity so that it's
above the right wheel-line.
Do you remember the Sedgwick?
Less complex would be the removal of load from the
wheel that's comming up to a 'step'.
Now I'm talking about a multi-wheel almost a
catapillar configuration.
Is there any online documentation about very low
level techology, eg. 2 teams of donkey walking on
either side of the track, pulling a laden carriage
via long ropes, or useing the power generated by a
motor cycle to drive the carriage wheels, in such a
way that the motor cycle can be easily decoupled,
and used to travel over game-paths in the bush.
TIA.
== Chris Glur.
bob
> Let's assume that the socio-political issues are resolved,
> and just concentrate on the technical aspects.
>
> Let's approach the topic incrementally from the simplest principles:
>
> If I've got a perfectly symetrical 2-axes, 4 wheel 'carriage' pulled
> along a perfectly straight rail-track via a sky-hook, then what stops
> it from 'going off the track' eventually?
>
> If the flanges [are they called?] on the wheels rubbing against the
> rails, are used as more than an extra safety, this seems a very
> inefficient method.
>
> I'd expect some method, like the dihederal of aircraft wings,
> which stabilise the craft from 'flipping over' to be appicable.
Indeed, and it is the case. The wheels of railway vehicles are
profiled to have an approximately conical section, with the larger
radius towards the centre of the vehicle. If you consider a small
movement off the centre line, the outside wheel is running on a larger
radius than the inside wheel, and the result is a turn back towards
the centre line. The flanges are there primarily for locations where
the conic section of the wheels is inadequate. The profile has to be
carefully chosen so as not to give rise to excessive oscillation
(hunting), but still giving adequate correcting effects. The
suspension is also designed in such a way as to add damping to this
motion (yaw dampers).
Robin
amogles
>
> If the flanges [are they called?] on the wheels rubbing against the
> rails, are used as more than an extra safety, this seems a very
> inefficient method.
>
Indeed this is the case. With the exception of sharp curves, it is
exceptional for the flanges to touch the rail. The conicity of the
wheels is sufficient to centre the axle.
amogles
> wheels been tried?
>
Lots of things have been tried. Wooden wheels, wheels with rubber
tyres.
Jon
>
> Is there any online documentation about very low
> level techology, eg. 2 teams of donkey walking on
> either side of the track, pulling a laden carriage
> via long ropes, or useing the power generated by a
> motor cycle to drive the carriage wheels, in such a
> way that the motor cycle can be easily decoupled,
> and used to travel over game-paths in the bush.
>
I suspect industrial narrow-gauge operations at various spots around
the world have done these at some time
amogles
Not really across the bush, but the Guinness Brewery railway in Dublin
had both narrow and broad gauge tracks and the narrow gauge
locomotives could be lifted onto special converter frames on broad
gauge axles to be able to venture outside the narrow gauge area and
shunt broad gauge wagons.
Graeme Wall
Details of the Guinness system are on the Industrial Railway Society's
website <http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/22/Guinness.htm>
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>
Photo galleries at <http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net>
Theo Markettos
> Is there any online documentation about very low
> level techology, eg. 2 teams of donkey walking on
> either side of the track, pulling a laden carriage
> via long ropes, or useing the power generated by a
> motor cycle to drive the carriage wheels, in such a
> way that the motor cycle can be easily decoupled,
> and used to travel over game-paths in the bush.
There's an example here with a Hillman Imp on a freight wagon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsit-g18GSg
Unsurprisingly it didn't get far.
Theo
Bruce
That newsreel is probably a measure of how desperate the Rootes Group
(a Chrysler subsidiary) was to sell the darn things. Not that Rootes
would have expected any to be sold for rail use - the newsreel was
just another (cheap) way of advertising the car.
The Imp was a classic example of a car that probably should never have
been built. Its production relied heavily on the railway with body
panels being sent from Coventry up to Scotland and engine castings
made in Scotland being sent to Coventry for machining and returned to
Scotland for assembly into the car. All this was done by train.
Jeff
> The Imp was a classic example of a car that probably should never have
> been built. Its production relied heavily on the railway with body
> panels being sent from Coventry up to Scotland and engine castings
> made in Scotland being sent to Coventry for machining and returned to
> Scotland for assembly into the car. All this was done by train.
Don't know whether the Imp should have been built, but certainly not
in Scotland where the Company was enticed by grants. It was another
attempt by Government to direct industry to a location that was not
appropriate for the business concerned. Like National Bus at
Workington it was bound to end with an abandoned industrial site.
Charles Ellson
<theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
It would be deranged if a saloon car was used but the basic principle
isn't that daft for use in the absence of roads at a worksite where
for some reason a railway-capable road vehicle would be unsuitable (is
there a practical distance limit for most such vehicles ?). Now that
power-take-offs seem to be fairly common on tractors and similar the
transfer via rollers can probably be chucked and replaced by e.g. a
hydraulic transmission system although in some parts of the world the
roller-based system might be the best match for the local version of a
jeep/Land Rover/whatever if KISS is required.
D7666
> . Its production relied heavily on the railway with body
> panels being sent from Coventry up to Scotland and engine castings
> made in Scotland being sent to Coventry for machining and returned to
> Scotland for assembly into the car. All this was done by train.
Much of which had a period of Class 20 haulage, some of it, briefly,
Class 20 haulage throughout..
--
Nick
Bruce
Eek. That's a long way with a Class 20 (or two).
bobharvey
> Not really across the bush, but the Guinness Brewery railway in Dublin
> had both narrow and broad gauge tracks and the narrow gauge
> locomotives could be lifted onto special converter frames on broad
> gauge axles to be able to venture outside the narrow gauge area and
> shunt broad gauge wagons.
Will you forgive me for saying that seems "a bit Oirish"?
bobharvey
> been built. Its production relied heavily on the railway with body
> panels being sent from Coventry up to Scotland and engine castings
> made in Scotland being sent to Coventry for machining and returned to
> Scotland for assembly into the car. All this was done by train.
I agree with the first sentence, although the rest of the paragraph is
superfluous to your basic argument.
Bruce
On the contrary, the cost of transporting components huge distances by
rail helped kill the economics of the Imp project. Far from being
superfluous, the rest of the paragraph supported the basic argument.
Plus, the rest of the paragraph kept my reply on-topic for this
newsgroup.
I strongly suggest that you add me to your kill file. ;-)
tra...@davidhwild.me.uk
<86d3e468-96d2-4a1e...@d2g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
The locomotives were not **lifted** on to the broad guage wagons. They ran
on to tracks on the wagon from tracks on the deck.
--
David Wild using RISC OS on broadband
www.davidhwild.me.uk
Graeme Wall
Actually they were hoisted up, the converter wagon was run underneath
and the loco lowered into position. The idea of a chap called Samuel
Geoghegan who was the brewery chief engineer.
bobharvey
> On 22/03/2011 15:26, tra...@davidhwild.me.uk wrote:
>
> > In article
> > bobharvey<roberthar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >>> Not really across the bush, but the Guinness Brewery railway in Dublin
> >>> had both narrow and broad gauge tracks and the narrow gauge
> >>> locomotives could be lifted onto special converter frames on broad
> >>> gauge axles to be able to venture outside the narrow gauge area and
> >>> shunt broad gauge wagons.
>
> >> Will you forgive me for saying that seems "a bit Oirish"?
>
> > The locomotives were not **lifted** on to the broad guage wagons. They ran
> > on to tracks on the wagon from tracks on the deck.
>
> Actually they were hoisted up, the converter wagon was run underneath
> and the loco lowered into position. The idea of a chap called Samuel
> Geoghegan who was the brewery chief engineer.
He wasn't also the chief tester was he?
Graeme Wall
History does not relate :-)