How to utilise abandoned railways?
no.to...@gmail.com
and just concentrate on the technical aspects.
Let's approach the topic incrementally from the simplest principles:
If I've got a perfectly symetrical 2-axes, 4 wheel 'carriage' pulled
along a perfectly straight rail-track via a sky-hook, then what stops
it from 'going off the track' eventually?
If the flanges [are they called?] on the wheels rubbing against the
rails, are used as more than an extra safety, this seems a very
inefficient method.
I'd expect some method, like the dihederal of aircraft wings,
which stabilise the craft from 'flipping over' to be applicable.
For rail tracks which are very irregular, have other than steel
wheels been tried?
Isn't there a big problem where the difference in the height
at the joint of two rails has become significant? A step.
What about a system where a detector monitors the rail
conditions, ahead of the wheels?
To demonstrate this idea, consider the extreme idea
that the forward-monitor would detect that the
left rail was missing. Theoretically the train could
proceed by:
1. lift all the left wheels,
2 slide the carriage's center of gravity so that it's
above the right wheel-line.
Do you remember the Sedgwick?
Less complex would be the removal of load from the
wheel that's comming up to a 'step'.
Now I'm talking about a multi-wheel almost a
caterpillar configuration.
Is there any online documentation about very low
level techology, eg. 2 teams of donkey walking on
either side of the track, pulling a laden carriage
via long ropes, or useing the power generated by a
motor cycle to drive the carriage wheels, in such a
way that the motor cycle can be easily decoupled,
and used to travel over game-paths in the bush.
TIA.
== Chris Glur.
Charles Ellson
Google for "horse shunting".
> pulling a laden carriage
>
Google for "horse trams".
>via long ropes, or useing the power generated by a
>motor cycle to drive the carriage wheels, in such a
>way that the motor cycle can be easily decoupled,
>and used to travel over game-paths in the bush.
>
When Lehrter Bahnhof in Berlin was being rebuilt a couple of years or
so ago one of the vehicles shown in use in television programmes was a
flat wagon powered by a digger/JCB style vehicle which was driven on
to it with the driven pair of wheels sitting on rollers which
transferred power to the wagon wheels. The same principle might be
applicable to e.g. small narrow-gauge wagons if you can devise a
method of holding the bike in position. This assumes it has not
already been done in certain parts of the world (Thailand?) where
unofficial use is made of railways in between trains using trolleys
powered by small (possibly salvaged from old bikes?) engines.
Andy Breen
> On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 21:59:06 +0000 (UTC), no.to...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>Let's assume that the socio-political issues are resolved, and just
>>concentrate on the technical aspects.
>>
>>Let's approach the topic incrementally from the simplest principles:
>>
>>If I've got a perfectly symetrical 2-axes, 4 wheel 'carriage' pulled
>>along a perfectly straight rail-track via a sky-hook, then what stops it
>>from 'going off the track' eventually?
>>
>>If the flanges [are they called?] on the wheels rubbing against the
>>rails, are used as more than an extra safety, this seems a very
>>inefficient method.
They are there for extra safety and guidance through junctions.
>>I'd expect some method, like the dihederal of aircraft wings, which
>>stabilise the craft from 'flipping over' to be applicable.
Yes. It's called "coning" of wheels and has been used since the 1830s.
>>For rail tracks which are very irregular, have other than steel wheels
>>been tried?
Yes, and not just for irregular lines. Look up "Micheline".
>>Isn't there a big problem where the difference in the height at the
>>joint of two rails has become significant? A step.
Rails are plated together at the join, if there's a join. Mostly, now,
there isn't. Welding, y'see.
There's a limit to how long any step in a rail joint would persist when a
load of several tonnes is thrown on it, too...
>>Is there any online documentation about very low level techology, eg. 2
>>teams of donkey walking on either side of the track,
>>
> Google for "horse shunting".
>
>> pulling a laden carriage
>>
> Google for "horse trams".
Ample. Read any repeat any of the literature on early railways. This was
how the first 200 years of railways in this country were powered..
>>via long ropes,
Via stationary machinery? Visit the Bowes Railway and see it done. Via
locomotives on a different track - look up "chain shunting". Via horses
or road vehicles? All well documented.
Motor-cycle or car derived haulage? Commonplace from WW1 (the "Crewe
tractor") to now, with most of these vehicles capable of road/rail use.
Road/rail capable trucks and Land-Rovers are available off the shelf,
pretty much. If you keep your eyes open you'll probab;y see them about
the place.
--
Sam Wilson
no.to...@gmail.com wrote:
> Let's assume that the socio-political issues are resolved,
> and just concentrate on the technical aspects.
Do I hear an echo? I'm sure I've read this before.
> Let's approach the topic incrementally from the simplest principles:
>
> If I've got a perfectly symetrical 2-axes, 4 wheel 'carriage' pulled
> along a perfectly straight rail-track via a sky-hook, then what stops
> it from 'going off the track' eventually?
>
> If the flanges [are they called?] on the wheels rubbing against the
> rails, are used as more than an extra safety, this seems a very
> inefficient method.
>
> I'd expect some method, like the dihederal of aircraft wings,
> which stabilise the craft from 'flipping over' to be applicable.
Yep - conicity. Several people have explained.
> For rail tracks which are very irregular, have other than steel
> wheels been tried?
Rails in general are very regular - much more so than roads.
> Isn't there a big problem where the difference in the height
> at the joint of two rails has become significant? A step.
>
> What about a system where a detector monitors the rail
> conditions, ahead of the wheels?
> [snip]
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViU5rr5GcYI> was mentioned here
recently. It's worth a look.
Sam
no.to...@gmail.com
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 01:22:48 +0000, Charles Ellson wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 21:59:06 +0000 (UTC), no.to...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >>Let's assume that the socio-political issues are resolved, and just
> >>concentrate on the technical aspects.
> >>
> >>Let's approach the topic incrementally from the simplest principles:
> >>
> >>If I've got a perfectly symetrical 2-axes, 4 wheel 'carriage' pulled
> >>along a perfectly straight rail-track via a sky-hook, then what stops it
> >>from 'going off the track' eventually?
> >>
> >>If the flanges [are they called?] on the wheels rubbing against the
> >>rails, are used as more than an extra safety, this seems a very
> >>inefficient method.
>
> They are therefor extra safety and guidance through junctions.
>
> >>I'd expect some method, like the dihederal of aircraft wings, which
> >>stabilise the craft from 'flipping over' to be applicable.
>
> Yes. It's called "coning" of wheels and has been used since the 1830s.
>
> >>For rail tracks which are very irregular, have other than steel wheels
> >>been tried?
>
> Yes, and not just for irregular lines. Look up "Micheline".
>
> >>Isn't there a big problem where the difference in the height at the
> >>joint of two rails has become significant? A step.
>
> Rails are plated together at the join, if there's a join. Mostly, now,
> there isn't. Welding, y'see.
>
> There's a limit to how long any step in a rail joint would persist when a
> load of several tonnes is thrown on it, too...
>
> >>Is there any online documentation about very low level techology, eg. 2
> >>teams of donkey walking on either side of the track,
> >>
> > Google for "horse shunting".
> >
> >> pulling a laden carriage
> >>
> > Google for "horse trams".
>
> Ample. Read any repeat any of the literature on early railways. This was
> how the first 200 years of railways in this country were powered..
I'm located in 3rd going 4th world: new-S.Africa; with library facilities
disapearing; THAT'S WHY I need original input.
Horse's walking on smooth roads, just have to be careful of not stepping
in the track grooves.
Tracks that originate from the 40'...60s and are laid on up to 6-inch
rocks supporting wooden, iron, concrete sleepers are not suitable
for hooved traffic. Often a smooth path next to the track may be
createable, provided the ropes are long enough to avoid their
angle being excessive.
>
> >>via long ropes,
>
Thanks.
> Rails in general are very regular - much more so than roads.
This is not about 'in general'.
'In general' is about buying you ticket and sitting down to read your newspaper.
When sections of track have been stolen in the 70's, they perhaps werere'nt
welded.
Try to think out of the box and from original ideas.