Further conversations about the future retirement of Windows XP from the RRP program
Willie Cade
Refurbishers,
Last week I sent out an e-mail about the pending retirement of Windows XP this coming December 31st, 2011. (See below). This past Friday during the monthly Refurbisher’s call we had a good airing of the issue with a few hardy souls. Here a few of the points that were brought up during the conversation . . .
1) It would be helpful not retire XP during a school year because some refurbishers rely on a constant image for the whole school year.
2) Smaller organizations will find it difficult to transition to Win 7. It would be good to allow them some more time to migrate
3) ICRS 2011 in Austin could be a good time to provide support for the transition (OK, this is mine and it is a shameless promotion of ICRS, but what the heck)
4) There are some Win 7 drivers for hardware, is still being refurbished, that are hard to find, especially sound and video drivers. (If you have specific driver requests please send a note to Mi...@PCRR.com he should be able to find them for you if they exist. Ok, OK, another shameless plug for the Refurbisher’s Pre-Install Kit – RPK)
I think the above points have merit. I still think that my earlier points are also valid. I suggest that this discussion shows a need to redouble our efforts of sharing and supporting one another with our work.
Therefore, I would like to ask the folks at Microsoft if they would be so kind as to delay the end of Windows XP until June 30th, 2012. I would also like to ask the RRP/MAR community to support other members to prepare for the new deadline as best they can.
Please let me know what you think about these ideas.
Willie Cade, CEO, PC Rebuilders & Recyclers, LLC., Home of the Computers for Schools Program
3053 N Knox Ave., Chicago, IL 60641, Office Phone: 773-545-7575. Fax Number: 773-545-7502 Cell Phone: 773-562-3377
www.PCRR.com www.eWasteCalendar.com
Join us for the 2011 ICRS November 10th & 11th, 2011 in Austin, TX
From Wednesday, September 7th, 2011
Refurbishers,
I have watched with interest the stream of e-mails about the retirement of Windows XP from the RRP/MAR program and I would like to share my thoughts. They are in no particular order and I invite you to a full airing of this issue on Friday during our monthly call (see previous e-mail). I don’t mean to be disrespectful to anyone’s recent posts but here I go . . .
1) Having the whole RRP/MAR community using Windows 7 could improve the image/perception of refurbished computers generally. Together we can improve the market for refurbished computers.
2) It will require RRP/MAR participants to rethink their image and maybe invest more in their products.
3) If someone is not able to make the shift, and it does take work, then they probably need to take a deep look and improve their products.
4) Windows 7 performs well on almost all of the hardware that we (RRP/MARs) refurbish. I have even seen Windows 7 working surprisingly well on Pentium III systems!
5) It is important that RRPs/MARs understand that Windows 7 has significant improvements over Windows XP. We (RRPs/MARs) need to know the specifics and take advantage of these facts and pass along the benefits to our customers.
6) We have proportionately more support calls (think viruses) with Windows XP than Windows 7 systems. I also think that our support calls are longer for Windows XP.
I understand that there are people out there that want to use Linux and I have no problem with that, but I think it requires too much support and too many skills for our focus clients. I suggest the e-mail by Charles McColm is a good example of why I don’t want to use Linux in my operation.
Timothy Anderson
Hello fellow refurbisher,
Willie Cade suggested I let you know about this tech trip.
World Computer Exchange has the next of our tech trips going to provide tech and teacher training at several schools in Zimbabwe that have received refurbished computers from us. The trip is from December 2 to December 17. We have a partial tech grant for a techie or two to reduce your flight cost by $1,000. This trip has a special focus on projects that place a priority on technology for girls. For more info: http://worldcomputerexchange.org/ecorps-zimbabwe-2011 If you are interested in going - please let me know.
Best wishes,
timothy
Timothy Anderson
President, World Computer Exchange, Inc.
Executive Director, World Computer Exchange - Canada
www.WorldComputerExchange.org Technology + Education = Potential
WCE with our 700 volunteers and 25 global Strategic Allies:
Develops stronger organizations in developing countries
Pre-loads diverse multilingual softare and content
Deploys refurbished computers and peripherals
Hosts life-changing technology & teacher training trips
Brokers equal school & university international exchanges
Consults on recycling in developing countries
Lorraine Kerwood
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Lorraine Kerwood
Organization: World Computer Exchange
Reply-To: <refurb...@googlegroups.com>
--
Angela Haas
1) 99% of our laptops that go to our families cannot handle Win7. this means that our Kids for Cancer program, our back to school programs and our seniors and veterans programs would almost completely end. Most of these programs are 100% donations to those groups. since most of the equipment we get in for these programs are from residents and run XP we would have to shut them down.
2) Our computers for XMAS programs. WITS donates to about 800-1000 families for Christmas who are below poverty level. These are still very basic machines donated by schools who are still using Xp themselves. To keep this open we would have to start charging for these computers or we would have to shut the program down .
3) We serve anywhere between 5-10K families, nonprofits, seniors, veterans and youth each year with free and low cost. This would be a major problem for most of our 12 programs. at least 15% of our program families would suffer with this change since our prices would have to increase by 20%.
4) Drivers, Drivers, Drivers.
I imagine that for many mid size nonprofits who may not serve as many families but still have same situations with equipment will have the same problem. Its not easy to tell a business we cant reuse their equipment because its too old, especially when many are donating to us just for the fact that we resue them.
Yes, we can install linux, unfortunately our families dont find that most of their school software or kids games they swap with friends are compatible and they simply do not want anything but microsoft. We have a hard enough time "Selling" them on OpenOffice.
So there is our two cents or is that four cents?
Thanks
Angela Haas
WITS
647 E Holly
Saint Louis MO 63147
314-382-6340
or
1507 N Bowman
Danville Il 61832
217-442-9487
Http://witsinc.org <http://witsinc.org/>
"Thank you for helping help us bridge the digital divide and save our Mother Earth"
Microsoft Registered Refurbisher<http://mail.witsinc.org/exchange/ahaas/Drafts/RE:%20[Refurbishers%20List]%20Equipment%20used%20to%20Test%20_xF8FF_%20Charge%20Laptop%20Batteries.EML/1_multipart/image001.png>
________________________________
From: refurb...@googlegroups.com on behalf of Willie Cade
Sent: Sun 9/11/2011 12:32 PM
To: refurb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Refurbishers List] Further conversations about the future retirement of Windows XP from the RRP program
Refurbishers,
Last week I sent out an e-mail about the pending retirement of Windows XP this coming December 31st, 2011. (See below). This past Friday during the monthly Refurbisher's call we had a good airing of the issue with a few hardy souls. Here a few of the points that were brought up during the conversation . . .
1) It would be helpful not retire XP during a school year because some refurbishers rely on a constant image for the whole school year.
2) Smaller organizations will find it difficult to transition to Win 7. It would be good to allow them some more time to migrate
3) ICRS 2011 in Austin could be a good time to provide support for the transition (OK, this is mine and it is a shameless promotion of ICRS, but what the heck)
4) There are some Win 7 drivers for hardware, is still being refurbished, that are hard to find, especially sound and video drivers. (If you have specific driver requests please send a note to Mi...@PCRR.com he should be able to find them for you if they exist. Ok, OK, another shameless plug for the Refurbisher's Pre-Install Kit - RPK)
I think the above points have merit. I still think that my earlier points are also valid. I suggest that this discussion shows a need to redouble our efforts of sharing and supporting one another with our work.
Therefore, I would like to ask the folks at Microsoft if they would be so kind as to delay the end of Windows XP until June 30th, 2012. I would also like to ask the RRP/MAR community to support other members to prepare for the new deadline as best they can.
Please let me know what you think about these ideas.
Willie Cade, CEO, PC Rebuilders & Recyclers, LLC., Home of the Computers for Schools Program
3053 N Knox Ave., Chicago, IL 60641, Office Phone: 773-545-7575. Fax Number: 773-545-7502 Cell Phone: 773-562-3377
www.PCRR.com <http://www.pcrr.com/> www.eWasteCalendar.com <http://www.ewastecalendar.com/>
Join us for the 2011 ICRS November 10th & 11th, 2011 in Austin, TX
<http://mail.witsinc.org/exchange/ahaas/Drafts/RE:%20[Refurbishers%20List]%20Further%20conversations%20about%20the%20future%20retirement%20of%20Windows%20XP%20from%20the%20RRP%20program.EML/1_multipart/image002.png> <http://mail.witsinc.org/exchange/ahaas/Drafts/RE:%20[Refurbishers%20List]%20Further%20conversations%20about%20the%20future%20retirement%20of%20Windows%20XP%20from%20the%20RRP%20program.EML/1_multipart/image004.png>
From Wednesday, September 7th, 2011
Refurbishers,
I have watched with interest the stream of e-mails about the retirement of Windows XP from the RRP/MAR program and I would like to share my thoughts. They are in no particular order and I invite you to a full airing of this issue on Friday during our monthly call (see previous e-mail). I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone's recent posts but here I go . . .
1) Having the whole RRP/MAR community using Windows 7 could improve the image/perception of refurbished computers generally. Together we can improve the market for refurbished computers.
2) It will require RRP/MAR participants to rethink their image and maybe invest more in their products.
3) If someone is not able to make the shift, and it does take work, then they probably need to take a deep look and improve their products.
4) Windows 7 performs well on almost all of the hardware that we (RRP/MARs) refurbish. I have even seen Windows 7 working surprisingly well on Pentium III systems!
5) It is important that RRPs/MARs understand that Windows 7 has significant improvements over Windows XP. We (RRPs/MARs) need to know the specifics and take advantage of these facts and pass along the benefits to our customers.
6) We have proportionately more support calls (think viruses) with Windows XP than Windows 7 systems. I also think that our support calls are longer for Windows XP.
I understand that there are people out there that want to use Linux and I have no problem with that, but I think it requires too much support and too many skills for our focus clients. I suggest the e-mail by Charles McColm is a good example of why I don't want to use Linux in my operation.
--
Jim Smith
In light of the fact that Windows XP is in the 'Extended Support Phase' from Microsoft which will not end until Aug. 2014, it only seems reasonable that Refurbishers should be permitted to obtain and install XP Pro for a lot longer. According to Microsoft, "During the Extended Support Phase, Microsoft will continue to provide security updates every month for Windows XP; however, free technical support, warranty claims, and design changes are no longer being offered."
Perhaps a compromise can be struck with Microsoft that would modify the MRR licensing to state that whenever possible Windows 7 shall be installed on a refurbished PC, but when that is not possible due to hardware, drivers, etc not being available, WIN XP Pro can be installed with an XP license. This would allow a transition to Windows 7 in a more orderly fashion while still saving a huge number of pcs from going into e-scrap.
It would be my recommendation that Refurbishers should be able to acquire XP licenses through the end of 2012.
Jim Smith
Asset Coordinator
www.ProjectReboot.org
--
Loren Talbott
There have been "die hards" who believe that nothing but Microsoft is acceptable. In those cases we still grant them a Linux system and let them spend the $$$ if they wish to contribute more to Microsoft's bottom line. How can anyone complain when they are receiving a very low cost (or in Free Geek's case a FREE) computer?
My experience has been that most people are scarred off by using something different than Microsoft or Apple but after they use a Linux system a couple of weeks most people are so pleased that they tell us they would NEVER go back to Microsoft.
If your budget and staffing allow it you may have success incorporating Linux by providing user training. One small 1 to 2 hour class a month has been very sufficient for us.
I hope this helps.You have a GREAT program! Please keep up the great work.
Loren
Loren Talbott
Vet Tech
679 Broadway
Providence, RI, 02909
TEL:(401)437-6996
EMAIL:ltalbott@vettechdepot.org
Angela Haas
Win7 started may woek great on piii or piv but we are struggling with mmr version on our regular systems.
Thanks
Sent from my Motorola ATRIX™ 4G on AT&T
-----Original message-----
Jim Lynch
Sean Dion
I’ll chime in …
I mentioned briefly to a handful of schools that XP PRO might be done away with come December. I swear to you you’d think I was killing their first born child or something.
For the K-12 arena, imagine 200-300 teachers who know how to move around in XP. Now imagine they come in and don’t know how to do something they could have done before the switch. These folks don’t spend a whole bunch of time training. One Tech Director I spoke with today said if you needed a petition signed, he’d be the first one on the list --- if that tells you anything J
In summary …
People don’t like change AND people don’t like to fix what ain’t broken.
Sean Dion
TKO Electronics, Inc.
31113 Via Colinas
Westlake Village, CA 91362
PH: 818.879.2233
FX: 818.879.2299
chas...@gmail.com
We have about 450 systems sitting in our shop now. Without cannibalizing maybe 15 would reasonably run Windows 7.
We already see people coming in from other places asking if we can change their Vista or Windows 7 back to XP (we don't).
On top of this many local schools are offering their training programs on XP. When people come to us they almost never ask if we offer Windows 7 (2
times on the last year).
I would like to offer Windows 7, but at this point its not a realistic option for us or the people we serve.
Sent from my “contract free” BlackBerry® smartphone on the WIND network.
Computers 2 SD Kids
It is not feasible for us to switch to Windows 7 at the end of the year. Too many of our systems would not reasonable run Windows 7 and we would be forced to switch to Linex until we begin to receive more Windows 7 compatible systems. Is there a logical reason that both Windows 7 and XP could not be offered to RRP after the new year?
Cheri R Pierre
Executive Director
Computers 2 SD Kids
7630 Miramar Road, Suite 2300
San Diego, CA 92126
(866) 678-3099 fax
(760) 518-7879 cell
Helping Children Achieve Academic Success Through Technology
Save paper, please read this email online!
As part of our commitment to environmental sustainability, we ask that you think before you print.
The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s), please note that any distribution, disclosure, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and then destroy any copies of it. This disclaimer is automatically appended to every e-mail leaving the C2SDK network.
Willie Cade
S,
What level systems are you refurbishing that Windows 7 will not work on them?
Willie Cade, CEO, PC Rebuilders & Recyclers, LLC., Home of the Computers for Schools Program
3053 N Knox Ave., Chicago, IL 60641, Office Phone: 773-545-7575. Fax Number: 773-545-7502 Cell Phone: 773-562-3377
www.PCRR.com www.eWasteCalendar.com
Join us for the 2011 ICRS November 10th & 11th, 2011 in Austin, TX
Angela Haas
Anyone up for that type of conversation?
Thanks
Angela
WITS
647 E Holly
Saint Louis MO 63147
314-382-6340
or
1507 N Bowman
Danville Il 61832
217-442-9487
Http://witsinc.org <http://witsinc.org/>
"Thank you for helping help us bridge the digital divide and save our Mother Earth"
Microsoft Registered Refurbisher<http://mail.witsinc.org/exchange/ahaas/Drafts/RE:%20[Refurbishers%20List]%20Equipment%20used%20to%20Test%20_xF8FF_%20Charge%20Laptop%20Batteries.EML/1_multipart/image001.png>
________________________________
From: refurb...@googlegroups.com on behalf of Computers 2 SD Kids
Sent: Tue 9/13/2011 1:39 PM
To: refurb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Refurbishers List] Further conversations about the futureretirement of Windows XP from the RRP program
It is not feasible for us to switch to Windows 7 at the end of the year. Too many of our systems would not reasonable run Windows 7 and we would be forced to switch to Linex until we begin to receive more Windows 7 compatible systems. Is there a logical reason that both Windows 7 and XP could not be offered to RRP after the new year?
Cheri R Pierre
Executive Director
Computers 2 SD Kids
7630 Miramar Road, Suite 2300
San Diego, CA 92126
(866) 678-3099 fax
(760) 518-7879 cell
www.computers2sdkids.org <http://www.computers2sdkids.org/>
Helping Children Achieve Academic Success Through Technology
Save paper, please read this email online!
As part of our commitment to environmental sustainability, we ask that you think before you print.
The information in this e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s), please note that any distribution, disclosure, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and then destroy any copies of it. This disclaimer is automatically appended to every e-mail leaving the C2SDK network.
From: refurb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:refurb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of chas...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:35 AM
To: refurb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Refurbishers List] Further conversations about the futureretirement of Windows XP from the RRP program
We likely wouldn't order any Windows 7 licenses within the next 8 months if the XP program goes away. We would probably switch to Linux until we had sufficient donations of machines that would run Windows 7.
We have about 450 systems sitting in our shop now. Without cannibalizing maybe 15 would reasonably run Windows 7.
We already see people coming in from other places asking if we can change their Vista or Windows 7 back to XP (we don't).
On top of this many local schools are offering their training programs on XP. When people come to us they almost never ask if we offer Windows 7 (2
times on the last year).
I would like to offer Windows 7, but at this point its not a realistic option for us or the people we serve.
Sent from my "contract free" BlackBerry® smartphone on the WIND network.
________________________________
From: Sean Dion <sd...@tkoelectronics.com>
Sender: refurb...@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 17:11:17 -0700
To: refurb...@googlegroups.com<refurb...@googlegroups.com>
ReplyTo: refurb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Refurbishers List] Further conversations about the future retirement of Windows XP from the RRP program
I'll chime in ...
I mentioned briefly to a handful of schools that XP PRO might be done away with come December. I swear to you you'd think I was killing their first born child or something.
For the K-12 arena, imagine 200-300 teachers who know how to move around in XP. Now imagine they come in and don't know how to do something they could have done before the switch. These folks don't spend a whole bunch of time training. One Tech Director I spoke with today said if you needed a petition signed, he'd be the first one on the list --- if that tells you anything J
In summary ...
People don't like change AND people don't like to fix what ain't broken.
Sean Dion
TKO Electronics, Inc.
31113 Via Colinas
Westlake Village, CA 91362
PH: 818.879.2233
FX: 818.879.2299
From: refurb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:refurb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lynch
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 4:46 PM
To: refurb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Refurbishers List] Further conversations about the future retirement of Windows XP from the RRP program
Jim,
Any chance you can say a bit more on why XP is is preferable to Win 7 for your users? For instance are you refurbing a significant number of older PCs that Windows 7 runs badly on?
Also, any chance you can estimate the percentage of XP licenses compared with Win 7 licenses that you'd expect to be ordering in the next 6 months - we're XP to be extended?
-jim
From: Jim Smith <smit...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <refurb...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:47:51 -0400
To: <refurb...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Refurbishers List] Further conversations about the future retirement of Windows XP from the RRP program
Willie,
In light of the fact that Windows XP is in the 'Extended Support Phase' from Microsoft which will not end until Aug. 2014, it only seems reasonable that Refurbishers should be permitted to obtain and install XP Pro for a lot longer. According to Microsoft, "During the Extended Support Phase, Microsoft will continue to provide security updates every month for Windows XP; however, free technical support, warranty claims, and design changes are no longer being offered."
Perhaps a compromise can be struck with Microsoft that would modify the MRR licensing to state that whenever possible Windows 7 shall be installed on a refurbished PC, but when that is not possible due to hardware, drivers, etc not being available, WIN XP Pro can be installed with an XP license. This would allow a transition to Windows 7 in a more orderly fashion while still saving a huge number of pcs from going into e-scrap.
It would be my recommendation that Refurbishers should be able to acquire XP licenses through the end of 2012.
Jim Smith
Asset Coordinator
www.ProjectReboot.org <http://www.projectreboot.org/>
On 9/11/2011 1:32 PM, Willie Cade wrote:
Refurbishers,
Last week I sent out an e-mail about the pending retirement of Windows XP this coming December 31st, 2011. (See below). This past Friday during the monthly Refurbisher's call we had a good airing of the issue with a few hardy souls. Here a few of the points that were brought up during the conversation . . .
1) It would be helpful not retire XP during a school year because some refurbishers rely on a constant image for the whole school year.
2) Smaller organizations will find it difficult to transition to Win 7. It would be good to allow them some more time to migrate
3) ICRS 2011 in Austin could be a good time to provide support for the transition (OK, this is mine and it is a shameless promotion of ICRS, but what the heck)
4) There are some Win 7 drivers for hardware, is still being refurbished, that are hard to find, especially sound and video drivers. (If you have specific driver requests please send a note to Mi...@PCRR.com he should be able to find them for you if they exist. Ok, OK, another shameless plug for the Refurbisher's Pre-Install Kit - RPK)
I think the above points have merit. I still think that my earlier points are also valid. I suggest that this discussion shows a need to redouble our efforts of sharing and supporting one another with our work.
Therefore, I would like to ask the folks at Microsoft if they would be so kind as to delay the end of Windows XP until June 30th, 2012. I would also like to ask the RRP/MAR community to support other members to prepare for the new deadline as best they can.
Please let me know what you think about these ideas.
Willie Cade, CEO, PC Rebuilders & Recyclers, LLC., Home of the Computers for Schools Program
3053 N Knox Ave., Chicago, IL 60641, Office Phone: 773-545-7575. Fax Number: 773-545-7502 Cell Phone: 773-562-3377
www.PCRR.com <http://www.pcrr.com/> www.eWasteCalendar.com <http://www.ewastecalendar.com/>
Join us for the 2011 ICRS November 10th & 11th, 2011 in Austin, TX
<http://mail.witsinc.org/exchange/ahaas/Drafts/RE:%20[Refurbishers%20List]%20Further%20conversations%20about%20the%20futureretirement%20of%20Windows%20XP%20from%20the%20RRP%20program.EML/1_multipart/image001.png> <http://mail.witsinc.org/exchange/ahaas/Drafts/RE:%20[Refurbishers%20List]%20Further%20conversations%20about%20the%20futureretirement%20of%20Windows%20XP%20from%20the%20RRP%20program.EML/1_multipart/image002.png>
Charles M
I saw you mention running Windows 7 on a Pentium III? Sounds like a lot of tweaking? Does it really run reasonably?
If we could get it running reasonably on a Pentium 4 1.8GHz with 512MB RAM, a 16MB video card and a 40GB hard drive we'd probably consider Windows 7.
In short our biggest problems are: poor video cards, not a lot of RAM and small hard drives. We really want something that people can get reasonable performance out of, not something that barely runs.
We've talked about buying a small run of Windows 7 licenses to see what we can do with the hardware we currently have (and to test other hardware compatibility {e.g. printers}).
Our parent still runs and teaches computer basics and office courses on Windows XP machines (which is a small consideration). The courses are run on Compaq EVOs which might be able to run Windows 7 with some tweaking.
We're a fairly small refurbisher (600-800 machines a year if you include Linux systems), but we really appreciate that Microsoft has allowed us to be a part of the MAR/MRR program these past years. It really is a great program (despite my moaning about Windows 7).
We're starting to see a few dual core systems and systems with 80GB hard drives come in, but the vast majority of what we get is still in the spec range of what I mentioned above.
Cheers and thanks!
Charles McColm,
The Working Centre Computer Recycling Project
Web: http://www.theworkingcentre.org/cr/
Blog: http://www.charlesmccolm.com/
Twitter/Identica/Google+: @chaslinux
Jim Smith
Estimating the % of XP licenses that we would be using would be a real guess.� Nevertheless, I think it would be in the 60 - 75% range.� Having said that, I fully realize that our stream will change and for the better hardware wise.� We used to see a large number of PIII PCs and now we see very few and now we are beginning to even see some dual core boxes.
Jim,
Any chance you can say a bit more on why XP is is preferable to Win 7 for your users? For instance are you refurbing a significant number of older PCs that Windows 7 runs badly on?
Also, any chance you can estimate the percentage of XP licenses compared with Win 7 licenses that you'd expect to be ordering in the next 6 months � we're XP to be extended?
-jim
From: Jim Smith <smit...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <refurb...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:47:51 -0400
To: <refurb...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Refurbishers List] Further conversations about the future retirement of Windows XP from the RRP program
Willie,
In light of the fact that Windows XP is in the 'Extended Support Phase' from Microsoft which will not end until Aug. 2014, it only seems reasonable that Refurbishers should be permitted to obtain and install XP Pro for a lot longer.� According to Microsoft, "During the Extended Support Phase, Microsoft will continue to provide security updates every month for Windows XP; however, free technical support, warranty claims, and design changes are no longer being offered."
Perhaps a compromise can be struck with Microsoft that would modify the MRR licensing to state that whenever possible Windows 7 shall be installed on a refurbished PC, but when that is not possible due to hardware, drivers, etc not being available, WIN XP Pro can be installed with an XP license.� This would allow a transition to Windows 7 in a more orderly fashion while still saving a huge number of pcs from going into e-scrap.
It would be my recommendation that Refurbishers should be able to acquire XP licenses through the end of 2012.
Jim Smith
Asset Coordinator
www.ProjectReboot.org
On 9/11/2011 1:32 PM, Willie Cade wrote:
Refurbishers,
�
Last week I sent out an e-mail about the pending retirement of Windows XP this coming December 31st, 2011.� (See below).� This past Friday during the monthly Refurbisher�s call we had a good airing of the issue with� a few hardy souls.� Here a few of the points that were brought up during the conversation . . .
�
1)����� It would be helpful not retire XP during a school year because some refurbishers rely on a constant image for the whole school year.
2)����� Smaller organizations will find it difficult to transition to Win 7.� It would be good to allow them some more time to migrate
3)����� ICRS 2011 in Austin could be a good time to provide support for the transition (OK, this is mine and it is a shameless promotion of ICRS, but what the heck)
4)����� There are some Win 7 drivers for hardware, is still being refurbished, that are hard to find, especially sound and video drivers.� (If you have specific driver requests please send a note to Mi...@PCRR.com he should be able to find them for you if they exist. �Ok, OK, another shameless plug for the Refurbisher�s Pre-Install Kit � RPK)
�
I think the above points have merit.� I still think that my earlier points are also valid.� I suggest that this discussion shows a need to redouble our efforts of sharing and supporting one another with our work.�
�
Therefore, I would like to ask the folks at Microsoft if they would be so kind as to delay the end of Windows XP until June 30th, 2012.� I would also like to ask the RRP/MAR community to support other members to prepare for the new deadline as best they can.
�
Please let me know what you think about these ideas.
�
Willie Cade, CEO, PC Rebuilders & Recyclers, LLC.,� Home of the Computers for Schools Program
3053 N Knox Ave., Chicago, IL 60641, Office Phone: 773-545-7575. Fax Number: 773-545-7502 Cell Phone: 773-562-3377
www.PCRR.com�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������� www.eWasteCalendar.com
Join us for the 2011 ICRS November 10th & 11th, 2011 in Austin, TX
�
�
From Wednesday, September 7th, 2011
�
Refurbishers,
�
I have watched with interest the stream of e-mails about the retirement of Windows XP from the RRP/MAR program and I would like to share my thoughts.� They are in no particular order and I invite you to a full airing of this issue on Friday during our monthly call (see previous e-mail).� I don�t mean to be disrespectful to anyone�s recent posts but here I go . . .
�
1)����������� Having the whole RRP/MAR community using Windows 7 could improve the image/perception of refurbished computers generally.� Together we can improve the market for refurbished computers.�
2)����������� It will require RRP/MAR participants to rethink their image and maybe invest more in their products.
3)����������� If someone is not able to make the shift, and it does take work, then they probably need to take a deep look and improve their products.�
4)����������� Windows 7 performs well on almost all of the hardware that we (RRP/MARs) refurbish.� I have even seen Windows 7 working surprisingly well on Pentium III systems!
5)����������� It is important that RRPs/MARs understand that Windows 7 has significant improvements over Windows XP.� We (RRPs/MARs) need to know the specifics and take advantage of these facts and pass along the benefits to our customers.
6)����������� We have proportionately more support calls (think viruses) with Windows XP than Windows 7 systems.� I also think that our support calls are longer for Windows XP.
�
I understand that there are people out there that want to use Linux and I have no problem with that, but I think it requires too much support and too many skills for our focus clients.� I suggest the e-mail by Charles McColm is a good example of why I don�t want to use Linux in my operation.
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Ryan McDowell
At Reboot we rescue a fair number of PCs from the transfer station here in Rockville which serves all of Montgomery County. Needless to say, most of these are not Core2Duo machines. However, a large number of them are P4s that range from a low end of 2.0 up to above 3. The majority are in the 2.0 to 2.6 range and I realize that Win7 will still run on them - except that the hardware in these boxes is about 5 to 7 years old. The likelihood of finding a manufacturer who was willing to spend resources on developing drivers for hardware this old is really low. The end result is that this stream of refurbish material will be dramatically cut if we have no OS that can be used on it.
Estimating the % of XP licenses that we would be using would be a real guess. Nevertheless, I think it would be in the 60 - 75% range. Having said that, I fully realize that our stream will change and for the better hardware wise. We used to see a large number of PIII PCs and now we see very few and now we are beginning to even see some dual core boxes.
On 9/12/2011 7:45 PM, Jim Lynch wrote:
Jim,
Any chance you can say a bit more on why XP is is preferable to Win 7 for your users? For instance are you refurbing a significant number of older PCs that Windows 7 runs badly on?
Also, any chance you can estimate the percentage of XP licenses compared with Win 7 licenses that you'd expect to be ordering in the next 6 months – we're XP to be extended?
-jim
From: Jim Smith <smit...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <refurb...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:47:51 -0400
To: <refurb...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Refurbishers List] Further conversations about the future retirement of Windows XP from the RRP program
Willie,
In light of the fact that Windows XP is in the 'Extended Support Phase' from Microsoft which will not end until Aug. 2014, it only seems reasonable that Refurbishers should be permitted to obtain and install XP Pro for a lot longer. According to Microsoft, "During the Extended Support Phase, Microsoft will continue to provide security updates every month for Windows XP; however, free technical support, warranty claims, and design changes are no longer being offered."
Perhaps a compromise can be struck with Microsoft that would modify the MRR licensing to state that whenever possible Windows 7 shall be installed on a refurbished PC, but when that is not possible due to hardware, drivers, etc not being available, WIN XP Pro can be installed with an XP license. This would allow a transition to Windows 7 in a more orderly fashion while still saving a huge number of pcs from going into e-scrap.
It would be my recommendation that Refurbishers should be able to acquire XP licenses through the end of 2012.
Jim Smith
Asset Coordinator
www.ProjectReboot.org
On 9/11/2011 1:32 PM, Willie Cade wrote:
Refurbishers,
Last week I sent out an e-mail about the pending retirement of Windows XP this coming December 31st, 2011. (See below). This past Friday during the monthly Refurbisher’s call we had a good airing of the issue with a few hardy souls. Here a few of the points that were brought up during the conversation . . .
1) It would be helpful not retire XP during a school year because some refurbishers rely on a constant image for the whole school year.
2) Smaller organizations will find it difficult to transition to Win 7. It would be good to allow them some more time to migrate
3) ICRS 2011 in Austin could be a good time to provide support for the transition (OK, this is mine and it is a shameless promotion of ICRS, but what the heck)
4) There are some Win 7 drivers for hardware, is still being refurbished, that are hard to find, especially sound and video drivers. (If you have specific driver requests please send a note to Mi...@PCRR.com he should be able to find them for you if they exist. Ok, OK, another shameless plug for the Refurbisher’s Pre-Install Kit – RPK)
I think the above points have merit. I still think that my earlier points are also valid. I suggest that this discussion shows a need to redouble our efforts of sharing and supporting one another with our work.
Therefore, I would like to ask the folks at Microsoft if they would be so kind as to delay the end of Windows XP until June 30th, 2012. I would also like to ask the RRP/MAR community to support other members to prepare for the new deadline as best they can.
Please let me know what you think about these ideas.
Willie Cade, CEO, PC Rebuilders & Recyclers, LLC., Home of the Computers for Schools Program
3053 N Knox Ave., Chicago, IL 60641, Office Phone: 773-545-7575. Fax Number: 773-545-7502 Cell Phone: 773-562-3377
Join us for the 2011 ICRS November 10th & 11th, 2011 in Austin, TX
From Wednesday, September 7th, 2011
Refurbishers,
I have watched with interest the stream of e-mails about the retirement of Windows XP from the RRP/MAR program and I would like to share my thoughts. They are in no particular order and I invite you to a full airing of this issue on Friday during our monthly call (see previous e-mail). I don’t mean to be disrespectful to anyone’s recent posts but here I go . . .
1) Having the whole RRP/MAR community using Windows 7 could improve the image/perception of refurbished computers generally. Together we can improve the market for refurbished computers.
2) It will require RRP/MAR participants to rethink their image and maybe invest more in their products.
3) If someone is not able to make the shift, and it does take work, then they probably need to take a deep look and improve their products.
4) Windows 7 performs well on almost all of the hardware that we (RRP/MARs) refurbish. I have even seen Windows 7 working surprisingly well on Pentium III systems!
5) It is important that RRPs/MARs understand that Windows 7 has significant improvements over Windows XP. We (RRPs/MARs) need to know the specifics and take advantage of these facts and pass along the benefits to our customers.
6) We have proportionately more support calls (think viruses) with Windows XP than Windows 7 systems. I also think that our support calls are longer for Windows XP.
I understand that there are people out there that want to use Linux and I have no problem with that, but I think it requires too much support and too many skills for our focus clients. I suggest the e-mail by Charles McColm is a good example of why I don’t want to use Linux in my operation.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "refurbishers" group.
To post to this group, send email to refurb...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to refurbishers...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/refurbishers?hl=en.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "refurbishers" group.
To post to this group, send email to refurb...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to refurbishers...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/refurbishers?hl=en.
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "refurbishers" group.
To post to this group, send email to refurb...@googlegroups.com.
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Jim Smith
However the same cannot be said for other hardware, specifically audio drivers.� I can tell you that if one of our refurbished pcs does not have sound, it doesn't go out.� Have you had the same success installing sound on the WIN7 pcs?
Jim Smith
On 9/13/2011 8:52 PM, Ryan McDowell wrote:
A note on drivers. I have had zero issues with drivers for Win7. Really!! from our lowest machine to the highest machine drivers are really easy to get so far. Some older machine with basic video use the generic vga driver that is included with Win7 and is more appropriate to use then a specific driver due to the broad support of video generics. Intel 8 series and older can not do any of the visual effects of Vista/7 anyway. For reference...our low end desktop is P4 2.0 and our low laptop is PentiumM 1.4. At present we deploy Win7 on our higher level machines due to demand but as of right now I did all of my initial testing of Win7 on a Compaq D510s 1.8GHZ with 512MB to really show me how good or bad it runs and it felt a little better then XP on the same machine (I did compare). I realize there is a deep seated commitment to XP but as I stated previously they aren't all that different. I do agree that Win7 is much better in the security department for now and this reduces our support costs and customer frustration with having malware plague there life. So I guess the real question is...Do we continue to use the windows foundation of 2002 or use the advancements that have come about sense then?
Ryan Mc.
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Jim Smith <smit...@gmail.com> wrote:
At Reboot we rescue a fair number of PCs from the transfer station here in Rockville which serves all of Montgomery County.� Needless to say, most of these are not Core2Duo machines.� However, a large number of them are P4s that range from a low end of 2.0 up to above 3.� The majority are in the 2.0 to 2.6 range and I realize that Win7 will still run on them - except that the hardware in these boxes is about 5 to 7 years old.� The likelihood of finding a manufacturer who was willing to spend resources on developing drivers for hardware this old is really low.� The end result is that this stream of refurbish material will be dramatically cut if we have no OS that can be used on it.
Estimating the % of XP licenses that we would be using would be a real guess.� Nevertheless, I think it would be in the 60 - 75% range.� Having said that, I fully realize that our stream will change and for the better hardware wise.� We used to see a large number of PIII PCs and now we see very few and now we are beginning to even see some dual core boxes.
On 9/12/2011 7:45 PM, Jim Lynch wrote:
Jim,
Any chance you can say a bit more on why XP is is preferable to Win 7 for your users? For instance are you refurbing a significant number of older PCs that Windows 7 runs badly on?
Also, any chance you can estimate the percentage of XP licenses compared with Win 7 licenses that you'd expect to be ordering in the next 6 months � we're XP to be extended?
-jim
From: Jim Smith <smit...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <refurb...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:47:51 -0400
To: <refurb...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Refurbishers List] Further conversations about the future retirement of Windows XP from the RRP program
Willie,
In light of the fact that Windows XP is in the 'Extended Support Phase' from Microsoft which will not end until Aug. 2014, it only seems reasonable that Refurbishers should be permitted to obtain and install XP Pro for a lot longer.� According to Microsoft, "During the Extended Support Phase, Microsoft will continue to provide security updates every month for Windows XP; however, free technical support, warranty claims, and design changes are no longer being offered."
Perhaps a compromise can be struck with Microsoft that would modify the MRR licensing to state that whenever possible Windows 7 shall be installed on a refurbished PC, but when that is not possible due to hardware, drivers, etc not being available, WIN XP Pro can be installed with an XP license.� This would allow a transition to Windows 7 in a more orderly fashion while still saving a huge number of pcs from going into e-scrap.
It would be my recommendation that Refurbishers should be able to acquire XP licenses through the end of 2012.
Jim Smith
Asset Coordinator
www.ProjectReboot.org
On 9/11/2011 1:32 PM, Willie Cade wrote:
Refurbishers,
�
Last week I sent out an e-mail about the pending retirement of Windows XP this coming December 31st, 2011.� (See below).� This past Friday during the monthly Refurbisher�s call we had a good airing of the issue with� a few hardy souls.� Here a few of the points that were brought up during the conversation . . .
�
1)����� It would be helpful not retire XP during a school year because some refurbishers rely on a constant image for the whole school year.
2)����� Smaller organizations will find it difficult to transition to Win 7.� It would be good to allow them some more time to migrate
3)����� ICRS 2011 in Austin could be a good time to provide support for the transition (OK, this is mine and it is a shameless promotion of ICRS, but what the heck)
4)����� There are some Win 7 drivers for hardware, is still being refurbished, that are hard to find, especially sound and video drivers.� (If you have specific driver requests please send a note to Mi...@PCRR.com he should be able to find them for you if they exist. �Ok, OK, another shameless plug for the Refurbisher�s Pre-Install Kit � RPK)
�
I think the above points have merit.� I still think that my earlier points are also valid.� I suggest that this discussion shows a need to redouble our efforts of sharing and supporting one another with our work.�
�
Therefore, I would like to ask the folks at Microsoft if they would be so kind as to delay the end of Windows XP until June 30th, 2012.� I would also like to ask the RRP/MAR community to support other members to prepare for the new deadline as best they can.
�
Please let me know what you think about these ideas.
�
Willie Cade, CEO, PC Rebuilders & Recyclers, LLC.,� Home of the Computers for Schools Program
3053 N Knox Ave., Chicago, IL 60641, Office Phone: 773-545-7575. Fax Number: 773-545-7502 Cell Phone: 773-562-3377
www.PCRR.com�������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������� www.eWasteCalendar.com
Join us for the 2011 ICRS November 10th & 11th, 2011 in Austin, TX
�
�
From Wednesday, September 7th, 2011
�
Refurbishers,
�
I have watched with interest the stream of e-mails about the retirement of Windows XP from the RRP/MAR program and I would like to share my thoughts.� They are in no particular order and I invite you to a full airing of this issue on Friday during our monthly call (see previous e-mail).� I don�t mean to be disrespectful to anyone�s recent posts but here I go . . .
�
1)����������� Having the whole RRP/MAR community using Windows 7 could improve the image/perception of refurbished computers generally.� Together we can improve the market for refurbished computers.�
2)����������� It will require RRP/MAR participants to rethink their image and maybe invest more in their products.
3)����������� If someone is not able to make the shift, and it does take work, then they probably need to take a deep look and improve their products.�
4)����������� Windows 7 performs well on almost all of the hardware that we (RRP/MARs) refurbish.� I have even seen Windows 7 working surprisingly well on Pentium III systems!
5)����������� It is important that RRPs/MARs understand that Windows 7 has significant improvements over Windows XP.� We (RRPs/MARs) need to know the specifics and take advantage of these facts and pass along the benefits to our customers.
6)����������� We have proportionately more support calls (think viruses) with Windows XP than Windows 7 systems.� I also think that our support calls are longer for Windows XP.
�
I understand that there are people out there that want to use Linux and I have no problem with that, but I think it requires too much support and too many skills for our focus clients.� I suggest the e-mail by Charles McColm is a good example of why I don�t want to use Linux in my operation.
Ryan McDowell
Ryan, I concur with your assessment on video drivers, although the basic ones are admittedly just that - basic.
However the same cannot be said for other hardware, specifically audio drivers. I can tell you that if one of our refurbished pcs does not have sound, it doesn't go out. Have you had the same success installing sound on the WIN7 pcs?
Jim Smith
On 9/13/2011 8:52 PM, Ryan McDowell wrote:
A note on drivers. I have had zero issues with drivers for Win7. Really!! from our lowest machine to the highest machine drivers are really easy to get so far. Some older machine with basic video use the generic vga driver that is included with Win7 and is more appropriate to use then a specific driver due to the broad support of video generics. Intel 8 series and older can not do any of the visual effects of Vista/7 anyway. For reference...our low end desktop is P4 2.0 and our low laptop is PentiumM 1.4. At present we deploy Win7 on our higher level machines due to demand but as of right now I did all of my initial testing of Win7 on a Compaq D510s 1.8GHZ with 512MB to really show me how good or bad it runs and it felt a little better then XP on the same machine (I did compare). I realize there is a deep seated commitment to XP but as I stated previously they aren't all that different. I do agree that Win7 is much better in the security department for now and this reduces our support costs and customer frustration with having malware plague there life. So I guess the real question is...Do we continue to use the windows foundation of 2002 or use the advancements that have come about sense then?
Ryan Mc.
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Jim Smith <smit...@gmail.com> wrote:
At Reboot we rescue a fair number of PCs from the transfer station here in Rockville which serves all of Montgomery County. Needless to say, most of these are not Core2Duo machines. However, a large number of them are P4s that range from a low end of 2.0 up to above 3. The majority are in the 2.0 to 2.6 range and I realize that Win7 will still run on them - except that the hardware in these boxes is about 5 to 7 years old. The likelihood of finding a manufacturer who was willing to spend resources on developing drivers for hardware this old is really low. The end result is that this stream of refurbish material will be dramatically cut if we have no OS that can be used on it.
Estimating the % of XP licenses that we would be using would be a real guess. Nevertheless, I think it would be in the 60 - 75% range. Having said that, I fully realize that our stream will change and for the better hardware wise. We used to see a large number of PIII PCs and now we see very few and now we are beginning to even see some dual core boxes.
On 9/12/2011 7:45 PM, Jim Lynch wrote:
Jim,
Any chance you can say a bit more on why XP is is preferable to Win 7 for your users? For instance are you refurbing a significant number of older PCs that Windows 7 runs badly on?
Also, any chance you can estimate the percentage of XP licenses compared with Win 7 licenses that you'd expect to be ordering in the next 6 months – we're XP to be extended?
-jim
From: Jim Smith <smit...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <refurb...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 15:47:51 -0400
To: <refurb...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Refurbishers List] Further conversations about the future retirement of Windows XP from the RRP program
Willie,
In light of the fact that Windows XP is in the 'Extended Support Phase' from Microsoft which will not end until Aug. 2014, it only seems reasonable that Refurbishers should be permitted to obtain and install XP Pro for a lot longer. According to Microsoft, "During the Extended Support Phase, Microsoft will continue to provide security updates every month for Windows XP; however, free technical support, warranty claims, and design changes are no longer being offered."
Perhaps a compromise can be struck with Microsoft that would modify the MRR licensing to state that whenever possible Windows 7 shall be installed on a refurbished PC, but when that is not possible due to hardware, drivers, etc not being available, WIN XP Pro can be installed with an XP license. This would allow a transition to Windows 7 in a more orderly fashion while still saving a huge number of pcs from going into e-scrap.
It would be my recommendation that Refurbishers should be able to acquire XP licenses through the end of 2012.
Jim Smith
Asset Coordinator
www.ProjectReboot.org
On 9/11/2011 1:32 PM, Willie Cade wrote:
Refurbishers,
Last week I sent out an e-mail about the pending retirement of Windows XP this coming December 31st, 2011. (See below). This past Friday during the monthly Refurbisher’s call we had a good airing of the issue with a few hardy souls. Here a few of the points that were brought up during the conversation . . .
1) It would be helpful not retire XP during a school year because some refurbishers rely on a constant image for the whole school year.
2) Smaller organizations will find it difficult to transition to Win 7. It would be good to allow them some more time to migrate
3) ICRS 2011 in Austin could be a good time to provide support for the transition (OK, this is mine and it is a shameless promotion of ICRS, but what the heck)
4) There are some Win 7 drivers for hardware, is still being refurbished, that are hard to find, especially sound and video drivers. (If you have specific driver requests please send a note to Mi...@PCRR.com he should be able to find them for you if they exist. Ok, OK, another shameless plug for the Refurbisher’s Pre-Install Kit – RPK)
I think the above points have merit. I still think that my earlier points are also valid. I suggest that this discussion shows a need to redouble our efforts of sharing and supporting one another with our work.
Therefore, I would like to ask the folks at Microsoft if they would be so kind as to delay the end of Windows XP until June 30th, 2012. I would also like to ask the RRP/MAR community to support other members to prepare for the new deadline as best they can.
Please let me know what you think about these ideas.
Willie Cade, CEO, PC Rebuilders & Recyclers, LLC., Home of the Computers for Schools Program
3053 N Knox Ave., Chicago, IL 60641, Office Phone: 773-545-7575. Fax Number: 773-545-7502 Cell Phone: 773-562-3377
Join us for the 2011 ICRS November 10th & 11th, 2011 in Austin, TX
From Wednesday, September 7th, 2011
Refurbishers,
I have watched with interest the stream of e-mails about the retirement of Windows XP from the RRP/MAR program and I would like to share my thoughts. They are in no particular order and I invite you to a full airing of this issue on Friday during our monthly call (see previous e-mail). I don’t mean to be disrespectful to anyone’s recent posts but here I go . . .
1) Having the whole RRP/MAR community using Windows 7 could improve the image/perception of refurbished computers generally. Together we can improve the market for refurbished computers.
2) It will require RRP/MAR participants to rethink their image and maybe invest more in their products.
3) If someone is not able to make the shift, and it does take work, then they probably need to take a deep look and improve their products.
4) Windows 7 performs well on almost all of the hardware that we (RRP/MARs) refurbish. I have even seen Windows 7 working surprisingly well on Pentium III systems!
5) It is important that RRPs/MARs understand that Windows 7 has significant improvements over Windows XP. We (RRPs/MARs) need to know the specifics and take advantage of these facts and pass along the benefits to our customers.
6) We have proportionately more support calls (think viruses) with Windows XP than Windows 7 systems. I also think that our support calls are longer for Windows XP.
I understand that there are people out there that want to use Linux and I have no problem with that, but I think it requires too much support and too many skills for our focus clients. I suggest the e-mail by Charles McColm is a good example of why I don’t want to use Linux in my operation.