I'd Like to Do a Business-Focused Presentation

[John Trupiano]

Hey Ben (and crew),

I spoke to you a couple of months ago at one of the meetups about
putting together a presentation that dealt with the business aspect of
being a freelancer/consultancy. I've been compiling a lot of material
lately, and would be very interested in presenting as soon as I could.

Potential "working topics" might include:
* So you want to freelance. What do you need to know?
* Great, I'm a freelancer, how do I start to assemble my own team?
* I'm a developer, I really need to work with a designer (and vice
versa)
* How to Identify Shitty Clients
* How to Identify Shitty Devs/Designers (from both angles)
* What's important to go into a contract
* How do I give a client bad news?
* What your client actually expects out of you
* How to structure support and maintenance agreements
* The importance of setting a client's expectations appropriately
* Bend a little, but not all the way for your client (and why bending
often means you didn't do your job upfront)
* You're a consultant...so CONSULT!!!

More generic "business topics" might include:
* How do I incorporate?
* Business Insurance
* Payroll / HR (benefits, bonuses, raises, etc)
* Paying taxes
* Marketing / Positioning your budding firm
* Partnering with complementary firms/individuals

I'm still a little undecided about exactly what I'd cover, but these
are the dozen or so items I've been thinking about. Honestly, I could
probably talk for three straight days about this stuff, so I'm likely
to prune it down a bit and not include everything.

I would present this material from the perspective of "These are the
lessons I've learned, but your mileage may vary." In other words,
I'm going to lean on my own experience, but not necessarily preach my
way as the right way. Based on our conversation a few months ago, I
think this is something the Refresh group would be particularly
interested in.

I realize that you've already got March/April/May booked. That said,
if anything opens up or needs to slide back, I'd love to hop into one
of those slots, as I'm excited about this material now (and who knows
how I'll feel come June). That's not to suggest I wouldn't give it in
June.....just that I'd love to do it sooner.

Ben (and all of refresh), let me know your thoughts about the topics.
Mike, bcreative, Rob, it's not my intention to bully you out of your
slots!

-John

[hedgehog001]

Hello,
I just wanted to note that this sounds like a great topic. I remember
when I originally tried to research many of these topics when I
freelanced for awhile and had trouble really finding anything
specific. Most of the information out there was fairly generalized
and not focused specifically toward designers/developers. Although
I'm not currently freelancing, it'd be great to hear more of others'
experiences.

-Joe

[Benjamin Sterling]

John,

That is actually a great list, and I agree with Joe and yourself that people would probably love a convo about any or all of your points.

I think some of these points could work real well for a round table talk much like January's talk, maybe even wrapped together as a "series," ie.  one week have "How to Identify Shitty Clients" then the next have "How to Identify Shitty Devs/Designers (from both angles)" and so on.

Although we things booked for the next few months it does not mean we can't be creative or flexible, if people feel strongly about a topic over another I can see if we can shuffle some things around.

Benjamin Sterling / Web Developer
kenzomedia.com / kenzohosting.com / benjaminsterling.com / refreshbmore.org

443.844.7654 // Twitter @bmsterling
Skype: benjamin.sterling // AIM: thekenzoco

[Rob Wilkerson]

No worries at all. I'm a dev who desperately needs a designer, so I
can relate to your topics.

The fact is, your preso probably has a wider audience than mine.
Ant/automated deployment may be a little more dev-centic than the
typical refresh audience so my feelings won't be hurt if the choice to
bump me is made.

Ben, feel free to poll folks and reschedule/cancel/postpone my preso
at the whim of the larger group.

Rob Wilkerson
http://robwilkerson.org

--
Sent from my mobile device

Rob Wilkerson
http://robwilkerson.org

[Kyril Revels]

I also think this would be a great idea.  TBH, these are the kinds of topics I was hoping the January meetup would address, but much of what was discussed seemed to be more geared a bit more towards improved developer-client relations for those already in freelancing.  I'm not a freelancer, but I would like be...yet, I really don't know much about where to begin putting together proposals, doing contracts, or really any of the legal/tax stuff.  I think the topics that John brings up would definitly be beneficial to myself, and some of the other people out there like me.

-Kyril

[Benjamin Sterling]

Hey John, I would like to keep this topic going and form it up a bit
more, what can I do to help you put your thoughts together so we can
make this happen?

On Feb 14, 1:34 pm, Kyril Revels <kyril.rev...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I also think this would be a great idea.  TBH, these are the kinds of topics
> I was hoping the January meetup would address, but much of what was
> discussed seemed to be more geared a bit more towards improved
> developer-client relations for those already in freelancing.  I'm not a
> freelancer, but I would like be...yet, I really don't know much about where
> to begin putting together proposals, doing contracts, or really any of the
> legal/tax stuff.  I think the topics that John brings up would definitly be
> beneficial to myself, and some of the other people out there like me.
>
> -Kyril
>
> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Benjamin Sterling <
>

> benjamin.sterl...@kenzomedia.com> wrote:
> > John,
> > That is actually a great list, and I agree with Joe and yourself that
> > people would probably love a convo about any or all of your points.
>
> > I think some of these points could work real well for a round table talk
> > much like January's talk, maybe even wrapped together as a "series," ie.
> >  one week have "How to Identify Shitty Clients" then the next have "How to
> > Identify Shitty Devs/Designers (from both angles)" and so on.
>
> > Although we things booked for the next few months it does not mean we can't
> > be creative or flexible, if people feel strongly about a topic over another
> > I can see if we can shuffle some things around.
>
> > Benjamin Sterling / Web Developer
> > kenzomedia.com / kenzohosting.com / benjaminsterling.com /
> > refreshbmore.org
>
> > 443.844.7654 // Twitter @bmsterling
> > Skype: benjamin.sterling // AIM: thekenzoco
>

[John Trupiano]

Yeah, same here Ben. Today was a tough day (weekend was devoted to
the better half) --- I'll be following up this evening with several
thoughts.

-John

On Feb 16, 5:01 pm, Benjamin Sterling

[Benjamin Sterling]

That's great John, thanks.

Benjamin Sterling / Web Developer
kenzomedia.com / kenzohosting.com / benjaminsterling.com / refreshbmore.org

443.844.7654 // Twitter @bmsterling
Skype: benjamin.sterling // AIM: thekenzoco

[John Trupiano]

Hey guys,

Several things....

1) I did not attend the January meetup. I'm very curious to hear
feedback from those who attended that meetup. Specifically, I have no
idea which topics were covered, which were found to be universally
interesting, etc. Could a few of you speak up with thoughts/reactions
to that meetup for my (and I suppose everyone's) benefit?

2) Kyril suggested that client/contractor relations were at the heart
of the January talk. I must admit that I feel the topics I have the
most interesting things to speak about will revolve around this topic,
which leads me to another point. I really think I can tackle either
(a) the business aspect of things, or (b) the "human" aspect of
things. The business side of things would include items like taxes,
forming a company, LLC v. S-corp, in-depth review of consulting
contracts, statements of work, etc. This would be a very dry talk,
and one that would overlap quite a bit with the many seminars the ETC
(and other like-minded organizations) put on every week/month. The
"human" aspect of things will deal much more with client relations.
To be honest, as a consultant, often the only place you can stand out
against larger competition is in this area. This would include the
obvious (setting a client's expectations properly, planning/preparing
for support and maintenance, user acceptance testing, giving bad news
to a client), but also some fringe business-related items (specific
clauses you should include in your contracts, how to structure
proposals, etc.).

3) Rob, thank you for offering to step aside. Let's continue the
conversation a bit more before we etch that in stone.

4) How to Identify Shitty Devs/Designers --- I'm not so sure this is a
topic I could teach anything about. To be honest, this one comes down
to due diligence again and again....know who you're working with
before you work with them. If you can, make them "pass a test" of
sorts before you'll work with them. Unfortunately, I don't have any
silver bullet answers for you. This one probably lends itself to more
of a conversation-style discussion, with individuals offering up
anecdotal evidence for the benefit of the group.

5) How to Identify Shitty Clients --- I can definitely speak to this
one very well, and this is a topic I really look forward to
discussing.

So to sum up a bit, I think I'd prefer to shy away from the dry
business topics. Though, please speak up if these are the items you'd
like to see covered. To be honest, many of the dry business
discussions could probably just take place right here on this list.
So don't be afraid to speak up....we're all here to chip in a hand!

-John

[Benjamin Sterling]

Could a few of you speak up with thoughts/reactions to that meetup for my (and I suppose everyone's) benefit?

From the responses I heard, people really liked the "round table" set up we had for the January's meeting.  And think the topics below from your initial list would do real well in the same format:

1. How to Identify Shitty Clients

1. How to Identify Shitty Devs/Designers (from both angles)

1. What's important to go into a contract

1. How do I give a client bad news?

1. What your client actually expects out of you

Kyril suggested that client/contractor relations were at the heart of the January talk

For the most part that seemed to be true.

As I got to talking to people during and after it seems most are interested in "the business aspect of things."  Even the people who have been doing this for a long time still don't know all we need to know about the business aspect of things, I know I can use some hand holding in this area.

On top of some of the items you already mentions - incorporating, taxes, contracts - there was interest in writing proposals - there were questions at the Jan event about how you come up with hours for a project - write storyboards/wireframes.

Another topic in this realm is how to form partnerships, especially in cases where the relationship may be one sided.  For instance, I wanted to team up with designers where I code out there designs but I very rarely get design work to bounce to them.  How to get those types of relationships to work.

I think I talk for a good amount of people when I say learning more about the little things will be a huge thing.

This would be a very dry talk, and one that would overlap quite a bit with the many seminars the ETC (and other like-minded organizations) put on every week/month.

Can you post some links to a calender? 

Probably a stupid question, be is the "ETC"?

How to Identify Shitty Devs/Designers

This one probably lends itself to more of a conversation-style discussion 

I agree 100%

How to Identify Shitty Clients --- I can definitely speak to this one very well, and this is a topic I really look forward to discussing.

 

I think this can be a group talk.

I really must say that this is getting pretty excited!  Thanks again for getting this started John.

Benjamin Sterling / Web Developer
kenzomedia.com / kenzohosting.com / benjaminsterling.com / refreshbmore.org

443.844.7654 // Twitter @bmsterling
Skype: benjamin.sterling // AIM: thekenzoco

[John Trupiano]

The ETC is the Emerging Technology Centers. It is an organization
sponsored by the BDC (Baltimore Development Corporation) that serves
as a technology incubator. They have two locations, the Canton can
company and Eastern high school in Waverly. My company, SmartLogic,
is a tenant at the Eastern facility.

Now that I think about it, the ETC's events are generally reserved for
ETC members. That said, one of its tenants at the Waverly facility is
the Small Business Resource Center (SBRC). They are actually the
group that puts on all of the workshops that I described would overlap
with the dryer business topics. Here is a link to their calendar:
http://www.sbrcbaltimore.com/html/news_events/main.shtml As you can
see, they run these seminars fairly regularly.

I'll answer in-line to the rest of your points/questions.

-John


On Feb 16, 8:17 pm, Benjamin Sterling

<benjamin.sterl...@kenzomedia.com> wrote:
> > Could a few of you speak up with thoughts/reactions to that meetup for my
> > (and I suppose everyone's) benefit?
>
> From the responses I heard, people really liked the "round table" set up we
> had for the January's meeting.  And think the topics below from your initial
> list would do real well in the same format:
>

>    1. How to Identify Shitty Clients
>    2. How to Identify Shitty Devs/Designers (from both angles)
>    3. What's important to go into a contract
>    4. How do I give a client bad news?
>    5. What your client actually expects out of you

>
> Kyril suggested that client/contractor relations were at the heart of the
>
> > January talk
>
> For the most part that seemed to be true.
>
> As I got to talking to people during and after it seems most are interested
> in "the business aspect of things."  Even the people who have been doing
> this for a long time still don't know all we need to know about the business
> aspect of things, I know I can use some hand holding in this area.
>

I guess I'm still a little uncertain of the specifics you'd like
covered. It almost sounds like you think that there's a whole lot
that you don't know about, but I'm skeptical that that's actually the
case. For instance, are you interested in the following types of
questions?

* What types of taxes am I liable for?
* At what frequency do I pay these taxes?
* Do I pay withholding at a different frequency than unemployment?
* Where/how should I be looking for tax incentives?
* Should I do my own taxes, or should I hire an accountant?
* What all can an accountant do for me?
* How should I structure my pay (as an/the owner of the company)?
What part of my pay should be salary, and which part dividends? What
the hell is even the difference between dividends and salary?
* Am I taxed differently as an LLC vs. a corporation?
* How do I know which tax forms to file at the end of the year?
* I'm a services firm with a product idea that I'm ready to start
thinking about building....what should I do business/tax-wise?
* Do I need workers' compensation insurance?
* What other types of insurance do I need?
* I'm ready to move into office space....where should I look? How
much should I expect to pay?

This list could continue to grow and grow. I suspect that these are
really the questions everyone's clueless about (please add to this
list). What gives me pause about discussing these topics is the fact
that I can't go any further than "this is how we do it." A lot of
these are issues rooted in the law, and to be brutally honest, I just
wouldn't feel comfortable giving any more than anecdotal advice. We
could bring in Paul Taylor (or a colleague of his) from the SBRC
(mentioned at the top of this post) to speak more directly to these
issues. That said, I have no problem covering these....just that I
think they're dryer topics, and I wouldn't be able to speak to them
from the position of an expert.

> On top of some of the items you already mentions - incorporating, taxes,
> contracts - there was interest in writing proposals - there were questions
> at the Jan event about how you come up with hours for a project - write
> storyboards/wireframes.

I can speak to proposal writing a little bit. While we're here, I can
tell you that the answer is practice. Even when you're doing hourly
work, take 15-60 minutes (hell, take 4 hours if you have to) before
you start to thoroughly estimate each aspect of the project. Track
your time as if your life depended on it. When you've finished the
engagement, go back and see where you screwed up (did you forget to
budget time for the two round-trips you had to do with your client for
user acceptance testing, how about the time it took to actually build
your deployment server, did you budget any time for QA, etc).

I liken this a lot to someone who wants to try out the stock market.
The best approach is to use one of those sites where you trade fake
money. As long as you're brutally honest with yourself, you'll get a
feel for whether or not you're ready for the big time prety quickly.

>
> Another topic in this realm is how to form partnerships, especially in cases
> where the relationship may be one sided.  For instance, I wanted to team up
> with designers where I code out there designs but I very rarely get design
> work to bounce to them.  How to get those types of relationships to work.
>

This is an interesting topic that I can cover as well. It basically
boils down to a combination of networking (getting your foot in the
door in the first place) and delivering (did you do a good job). If
you can do both of those, that partner will not care if you're not
throwing work back their way. They'll be happy that you're allowing
them to shine with their current set of clients (which is very
valuable).

> I think I talk for a good amount of people when I say learning more about
> the little things will be a huge thing.
>
> This would be a very dry talk, and one that would overlap quite a bit with
>
> > the many seminars the ETC (and other like-minded organizations) put on every
> > week/month.
>
> Can you post some links to a calender?
>
> Probably a stupid question, be is the "ETC"?
>
> How to Identify Shitty Devs/Designers
>
> This one probably lends itself to more of a conversation-style discussion
>
> I agree 100%
>
> How to Identify Shitty Clients --- I can definitely speak to this one very
>
> > well, and this is a topic I really look forward to discussing.
>
> I think this can be a group talk.
>
> I really must say that this is getting pretty excited!  Thanks again for
> getting this started John.
>
> Benjamin Sterling / Web Developer
> kenzomedia.com / kenzohosting.com / benjaminsterling.com / refreshbmore.org
>
> 443.844.7654 // Twitter @bmsterling
> Skype: benjamin.sterling // AIM: thekenzoco
>

[John Trupiano]

Hey guys-- any further thoughts?

I'll be at Refresh tomorrow-- please introduce yourself. I'd be happy
to talk more about these topics, or to give you a hand with a specific
issue that you may be having.

-John

[Lokesh Dhakar]

John,
A few of the items listed in your first message peaked my interest:
- Client's real expectations
- How to give client bad news
I'll add one of my own:
- Can their be too much transparency? regarding hours, process, schedule, other work obligations, etc.

An idea for how you could structure a talk would be to list of five to ten 'mistakes' a client or yourself has made and talk about both the consequences and also how the client and/or yourself improved on the process in the future. I am a big fan of post-mortems and would love to hear some stories from your first-hand experience.

I would prefer you avoid simple how-tos. Ex. 'How to handle payroll taxes' or 'how to write a proposal'. There is plenty of information available online in this format. But I wouldn't mind hearing about either of the aforementioned items if during your experience with them you collected some tips that are worth passing along or information on common mistakes to avoid.

-Lokesh

[John Trupiano]

Hey Lokesh, I really like your idea of structuring the presentation as
a list of pitfalls supported by real-world examples. I actually think
this helps focus/frame the talk by allowing me to avoid the overhead
of having to construct a coherent, flowing story from start to
finish. Items like "client's real expectations" and "how to give bad
news" can be illustrated implicitly via one or more of the 10
pitfalls. Items like "how to write a proposal" could also be covered
well in a format like this....I'm thinking a slide/pitfall for "Right
Proposal, Wrong Client" or something else to that effect.

How do you guys feel about a talk structured like this?

-John

On Feb 25, 1:34 am, Lokesh Dhakar <lokesh.dha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> John,
> A few of the items listed in your first message peaked my interest:
> - Client's real expectations
> - How to give client bad news
> I'll add one of my own:
> - Can their be too much transparency? regarding hours, process, schedule,
> other work obligations, etc.
>
> An idea for how you could structure a talk would be to list of five to ten
> 'mistakes' a client or yourself has made and talk about both the
> consequences and also how the client and/or yourself improved on the process
> in the future. I am a big fan of post-mortems and would love to hear some
> stories from your first-hand experience.
>
> I would prefer you avoid simple how-tos. Ex. 'How to handle payroll taxes'
> or 'how to write a proposal'. There is plenty of information available
> online in this format. But I wouldn't mind hearing about either of the
> aforementioned items if during your experience with them you collected some
> tips that are worth passing along or information on common mistakes to
> avoid.
>
> -Lokesh
>

> ...
>
> read more »

[Michael Brenner]

I think this is a great idea for discussion.  This seems like a more focused spin-off of our January meet-up. 
I'm all for it!

- Mike Brenner -

[Lokesh Dhakar]

John Trupiano,
I'm still all for the talk. Any discussion going on when this can happen?

Ben Sterling,
You had posted the tentative schedule for the upcoming months a bit ago. What was the link?

-Lokesh

[Lokesh Dhakar]

John Trupiano,
I'm still all for the talk. Any discussion going on when this can
happen?

Ben Sterling,
You had posted the tentative schedule for the upcoming months a bit
ago. What was the link?

-Lokesh

[Benjamin Sterling]

Here it goes: http://refreshbmore.org/cal

We don't have a date but I've lined up a location, I've been meaning to email Mike to see what dates he can come up with.  I'll try to get that out tomorrow.

Benjamin Sterling / Web Developer
kenzomedia.com / kenzohosting.com / benjaminsterling.com / refreshbmore.org

443.844.7654 // Twitter @bmsterling
Skype: benjamin.sterling // AIM: thekenzoco