Next month's presentation and etc.

[Benjamin Sterling]

Hey guys,
As it stands now we have Rob Wilkerson who will present on Ant (automatic builds) next month but there was some concern from people that is was too technical for a full refresh and might do well as a small group conversation.  John Trupiano has put together some topics[1] I think will do well.  So my question is, any issues with moving Rob's presentation to maybe a round table type talk and having John present in May?

I also wanted to mention that I am lining up talks for June and July.  I am in talks with Jackson WIlkinson (he runs refresh-dc) on doing a talk called "Low-budget and short-timeline UX practices" and with Mr. Jeffery Brown called "Web Education: Break Throughs and Road Blocks".  So my question is, does anyone have a preference which month each should fall under?  Of course we will need to fit with in their schedules, but wanted to see what everyone's preference was.

I also wanted to line up John F Croston III[2] for some accessiblity talks, would anyone be interested in these?

[1] http://groups.google.com/group/refresh-bmore-planning/browse_thread/thread/c2c8ba403915675a#
[2] http://jfciii.com/presentations.shtml

Benjamin Sterling / Web Developer
kenzomedia.com / kenzohosting.com / benjaminsterling.com / refreshbmore.org

443.844.7654 // Twitter @bmsterling
Skype: benjamin.sterling // AIM: thekenzoco

[cirquel]

The group is unique in that we get an opportunity for 3 sides of the
business to interact: project managers, design & tech. My preference
would be to keep the topics less technical, unless there is a real
benefit to going into great tech detail. For example, if having a
clearer understanding of how a technology works would make it easier
for a project manager to explain/sell to the client, or for a designer
to do the front-end look, then I think a tech talk would be
beneficial. Otherwise, I think the round table on a different night
would be a good idea. I think John's suggestions for topics were all
great ideas.

On Apr 13, 9:13 am, Benjamin Sterling

<benjamin.sterl...@kenzomedia.com> wrote:
> Hey guys,
> As it stands now we have Rob Wilkerson who will present on Ant (automatic
> builds) next month but there was some concern from people that is was too
> technical for a full refresh and might do well as a small group
> conversation.  John Trupiano has put together some topics[1] I think will do
> well.  So my question is, any issues with moving Rob's presentation to maybe
> a round table type talk and having John present in May?
>
> I also wanted to mention that I am lining up talks for June and July.  I am
> in talks with Jackson WIlkinson (he runs refresh-dc) on doing a talk called
> "Low-budget and short-timeline UX practices" and with Mr. Jeffery Brown
> called "Web Education: Break Throughs and Road Blocks".  So my question is,
> does anyone have a preference which month each should fall under?  Of course
> we will need to fit with in their schedules, but wanted to see what
> everyone's preference was.
>
> I also wanted to line up John F Croston III[2] for some accessiblity talks,
> would anyone be interested in these?
>

> [1]http://groups.google.com/group/refresh-bmore-planning/browse_thread/t...

[Brent Halliburton]

As a business guy, I think the right spin on an automated build topic
is helpful to everyone. Stuff like this is important to a successful
project and putting me in a situation to ask the right questions at my
company and make sure we are doing it right is solid.

Also, Rob is the best!!!!!

-- brent <- biased

On Apr 13, 9:13 am, Benjamin Sterling
<benjamin.sterl...@kenzomedia.com> wrote:

> Hey guys,
> As it stands now we have Rob Wilkerson who will present on Ant (automatic
> builds) next month but there was some concern from people that is was too
> technical for a full refresh and might do well as a small group
> conversation.  John Trupiano has put together some topics[1] I think will do
> well.  So my question is, any issues with moving Rob's presentation to maybe
> a round table type talk and having John present in May?
>
> I also wanted to mention that I am lining up talks for June and July.  I am
> in talks with Jackson WIlkinson (he runs refresh-dc) on doing a talk called
> "Low-budget and short-timeline UX practices" and with Mr. Jeffery Brown
> called "Web Education: Break Throughs and Road Blocks".  So my question is,
> does anyone have a preference which month each should fall under?  Of course
> we will need to fit with in their schedules, but wanted to see what
> everyone's preference was.
>
> I also wanted to line up John F Croston III[2] for some accessiblity talks,
> would anyone be interested in these?
>

> [1]http://groups.google.com/group/refresh-bmore-planning/browse_thread/t...

[Ben Kutil]

I agree with Brent, that the idea of 'automating' as much as possible
in a business environment is very important. Not sure if there is
time, but maybe the discussion can be a group presentation on Ant and
technologies similar, but that aren't focused on the build and deploy
setup. For instance, I have a shell script that creates my subversion
and trac environments for each new project, and makes for a super
simple setup. That script saves me 30 minutes every time I use it. I'm
not heavy into 'scripting', but would love for more examples like this
to come out of the meeting. Some thoughts on presentations that might
be able to tie into 'automation' would be on Capistrano (maybe to
similar to ant), Selenium (automated testing), Cruise Control
(continious integration - i don't use it, but sounds awesome), shell
scripting (might be hard with differences in shells), apple scripting
(for mac and creatives) and scripting specific to programs (textmate,
photoshop, indesign)

On Apr 13, 9:13 am, Benjamin Sterling
<benjamin.sterl...@kenzomedia.com> wrote:

> Hey guys,
> As it stands now we have Rob Wilkerson who will present on Ant (automatic
> builds) next month but there was some concern from people that is was too
> technical for a full refresh and might do well as a small group
> conversation.  John Trupiano has put together some topics[1] I think will do
> well.  So my question is, any issues with moving Rob's presentation to maybe
> a round table type talk and having John present in May?
>
> I also wanted to mention that I am lining up talks for June and July.  I am
> in talks with Jackson WIlkinson (he runs refresh-dc) on doing a talk called
> "Low-budget and short-timeline UX practices" and with Mr. Jeffery Brown
> called "Web Education: Break Throughs and Road Blocks".  So my question is,
> does anyone have a preference which month each should fall under?  Of course
> we will need to fit with in their schedules, but wanted to see what
> everyone's preference was.
>
> I also wanted to line up John F Croston III[2] for some accessiblity talks,
> would anyone be interested in these?
>

> [1]http://groups.google.com/group/refresh-bmore-planning/browse_thread/t...

[Benjamin Sterling]

I like that idea Ben, after reading Linda's and Brent's email I started thinking the same thing.  Maybe we can push this topic to another month and really develop it.  Having an "Automated" refresh is a great idea.

Anyone have experience with the programs/scripts that Ben K. mentioned and be willing to do a 10 or 20 minutes talk on it?

Ben K, I'd like to hear more on what you have set up, it sounds like it would be perfect for what I do.

Benjamin Sterling / Web Developer
kenzomedia.com / kenzohosting.com / benjaminsterling.com / refreshbmore.org

443.844.7654 // Twitter @bmsterling
Skype: benjamin.sterling // AIM: thekenzoco

[Justin Michaliga]

Yes - I think we flirted with this idea before - but having a few
developers share their processes in a certain aspect of what they're
doing would be a GREAT conversation at Refresh.

I think such a topic embodies a creative way of dealing with a
technical problem, while increasing professionalism.

What if it was sort of like an "Ignite" Format where a developer or
designer shows everybody a quick shortcut, tip, or where we're going
in having automated topics.
Even just seeing what programs and environments the majority of local
devs use would provide great insight - even if a certain individual's
setup is not too unique.

Topics like these which span across several "types" I think are more
beneficial to the community because they cross-pollinate between
creative/technical/professional.

Getting off topic, are there any more conversations that can span more
than just one-niche?


On Apr 14, 9:47 am, Benjamin Sterling

<benjamin.sterl...@kenzomedia.com> wrote:
> I like that idea Ben, after reading Linda's and Brent's email I started
> thinking the same thing. Maybe we can push this topic to another month and
> really develop it. Having an "Automated" refresh is a great idea.
>
> Anyone have experience with the programs/scripts that Ben K. mentioned and
> be willing to do a 10 or 20 minutes talk on it?
>
> Ben K, I'd like to hear more on what you have set up, it sounds like it
> would be perfect for what I do.
>
> Benjamin Sterling / Web Developer
> kenzomedia.com / kenzohosting.com / benjaminsterling.com / refreshbmore.org
>
> 443.844.7654 // Twitter @bmsterling
> Skype: benjamin.sterling // AIM: thekenzoco
>

[Benjamin Sterling]

Justin, good call on the "Ignite" type format, I think that would work well.  I do think we should have some sort of question, answer segment.  Maybe at the end.

John T. listed a bunch of possible topics that could span multiple niche but most may be better in a round table type talk.
http://groups.google.com/group/refresh-bmore-planning/browse_thread/thread/c2c8ba403915675a

Benjamin Sterling / Web Developer
kenzomedia.com / kenzohosting.com / benjaminsterling.com / refreshbmore.org

443.844.7654 // Twitter @bmsterling
Skype: benjamin.sterling // AIM: thekenzoco

[Ben Kutil]

I don't know that it needs to push to the next month though. With robs
presentation in place (as one developer representative), we could tie
in some "print production" automation (for example), some web design/
front end automation, another development talk (functional testing
maybe), business automation (?) and then like a "systems" presentation
that could show ways to tie all these things together.

Just a thought. I am still very interested in robs talk, but maybe by
expanding the concept it can be more accessible to everyone.



On Apr 14, 9:47 am, Benjamin Sterling

<benjamin.sterl...@kenzomedia.com> wrote:
> I like that idea Ben, after reading Linda's and Brent's email I started
> thinking the same thing.  Maybe we can push this topic to another month and
> really develop it.  Having an "Automated" refresh is a great idea.
>
> Anyone have experience with the programs/scripts that Ben K. mentioned and
> be willing to do a 10 or 20 minutes talk on it?
>
> Ben K, I'd like to hear more on what you have set up, it sounds like it
> would be perfect for what I do.
>
> Benjamin Sterling / Web Developer
> kenzomedia.com / kenzohosting.com / benjaminsterling.com / refreshbmore.org
>

> 443.844.7654// Twitter @bmsterling

> Skype: benjamin.sterling // AIM: thekenzoco
>

> > >443.844.7654// Twitter @bmsterling

[John Trupiano]

I would also have plenty to contribute to an automation talk.  We use cruise control, capistrano, staging and demo servers, selenium, gitosis, pivotal tracker, webrat, cucumber, all sorts of goodies like this that automate various aspects of our development process.

Rob, out of curiosity, is your talk already prepared?  In other words, are we walking all over it right now by talking about wanting to collaborate with you?

I'm really down to work on either talk--- for what it's worth, I think there'd be more value in preparing a talk together instead of lining up 4-5 different 15-minute segments that may not necessarily gel well.  The talks at Refresh always seem to be slightly more polished than many of the other groups I go to.  I'd hate to have 5 people independently prepare presentations that overlap a lot.  I'd be more than happy to meet a couple of times with whoever would want to co-present to work on our presentations and ensure that we don't overlap too much on our talks.

-John

--
John Trupiano
President
SmartLogic Solutions
http://www.smartlogicsolutions.com
@jtrupiano

[Rob Wilkerson]

On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 6:23 PM, John Trupiano <jtru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would also have plenty to contribute to an automation talk.  We use cruise
> control, capistrano, staging and demo servers, selenium, gitosis, pivotal
> tracker, webrat, cucumber, all sorts of goodies like this that automate
> various aspects of our development process.
>
> Rob, out of curiosity, is your talk already prepared?  In other words, are
> we walking all over it right now by talking about wanting to collaborate
> with you?

Nope, you're fine. I offered to give this talk when the group was hard
up for speakers. I could talk or not talk and think nothing of it
either way; my feelings aren't hurt. I'm happy to talk about anything
where I can add value or collaborate in any way. Just let me know what
I can do to help. I'm pretty agreeable about these things.

--
Rob Wilkerson
http://robwilkerson.org

[Benjamin Sterling]

Thanks everyone for your feedback so far.

We have the location set for May 13th so I would like to solidify the talk by at least the 1st if at all possible.

Can Ant sustain a whole Refresh or should we have semi-insync "automate" talk from a few people or a round table type talk?

I am really down for what ever and excited to hear a talk from Rob and/or John on their respective topics.

Benjamin Sterling / Web Developer
kenzomedia.com / kenzohosting.com / benjaminsterling.com / refreshbmore.org

443.844.7654 // Twitter @bmsterling

Skype: benjamin.sterling // AIM: thekenzoco

[John Trupiano]

I'd imagine that not everyone would benefit from a talk whose basis was Ant specifically.  Conceptually, we're really just talking about automation, which is one of the primary uses of Ant.

In order to sustain a whole talk, I think we'd want to cover the concepts of automation (the benefits/goals of automation, what can/should be automated, what tools can be used, etc).  Ant can definitely be used to showcase many of these ideas.

I think automation is a very fruitful topic that would potentially benefit non-developers more than the developers.  I think that many non-developers just aren't aware of these tools and techniques, and as a result simply don't realize how they can be saving themselves time and improving the quality of their work through their use.

As far as how to structure the talk, I think we leave that up to Rob.  Rob, do you feel comfortable putting together a talk with enough focus on automation in general to benefit the whole group?  Or would you rather keep your contribution specifically to ant and some more developer-specific automation tasks?  In the event that you want to keep your focus narrower, I'd think we want to try to pull in a few others to contribute to the talk and address the subject from different perspectives.

-John

[Benjamin Sterling]

John,
Very good points, thanks for clarifying everything.

Benjamin Sterling / Web Developer
kenzomedia.com / kenzohosting.com / benjaminsterling.com / refreshbmore.org

443.844.7654 // Twitter @bmsterling
Skype: benjamin.sterling // AIM: thekenzoco

[Rob Wilkerson]

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 11:19 AM, John Trupiano <jtru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd imagine that not everyone would benefit from a talk whose basis was Ant
> specifically.  Conceptually, we're really just talking about automation,
> which is one of the primary uses of Ant.
>
> In order to sustain a whole talk, I think we'd want to cover the concepts of
> automation (the benefits/goals of automation, what can/should be automated,
> what tools can be used, etc).  Ant can definitely be used to showcase many
> of these ideas.
>
> I think automation is a very fruitful topic that would potentially benefit
> non-developers more than the developers.  I think that many non-developers
> just aren't aware of these tools and techniques, and as a result simply
> don't realize how they can be saving themselves time and improving the
> quality of their work through their use.
>
> As far as how to structure the talk, I think we leave that up to Rob.  Rob,
> do you feel comfortable putting together a talk with enough focus on
> automation in general to benefit the whole group?  Or would you rather keep
> your contribution specifically to ant and some more developer-specific
> automation tasks?  In the event that you want to keep your focus narrower,
> I'd think we want to try to pull in a few others to contribute to the talk
> and address the subject from different perspectives.

Any Ant discussion is only useful within the context of automation;
Ant just happens to be the tool I know best and use most often.

Again, whatever folks want to do here is fine. Automation interests me
whether I'm giving a talk, listening to a talk or giving part of a
talk. I will add that since I haven't worked in a compiled language
for a while and don't currently do as much TDD as I'd like, I don't
use any CI tools. I use Ant extensively on the back end of my process
to build and deploy. John and/or others may be able to offer a better
breadth of information since they use tools that are engaged
throughout the development cycle.

[Bryan Liles]

I do enjoy the "ignite" style suggestion.  It appears we have a growing list of people who want to give talks around automation.  There are many functional areas that can be automated from the the actual systems themselves, to the development, to the front end design. 

Why don't we try to collect six or so talks that touch one of the three aforementioned functional areas.  I think this will allow the most out amount of cross-pollination when it comes to introducing people to different types of automation.

bryanl

[Benjamin Sterling]

Since this was not resolved, I would like to stick with the original topic by Rob on Ant.

Rob, are you still game for this Wednesday?

Benjamin Sterling / Web Developer
kenzomedia.com / kenzohosting.com / benjaminsterling.com / refreshbmore.org

443.844.7654 // Twitter @bmsterling
Skype: benjamin.sterling // AIM: thekenzoco