"Form Display Logic" when using Repeating Instruments (v12.0.11)

[Tim Medlicott]

Hallo, I hope someone can help with this query and that hopefully in time it'll help someone else with this issue.

We've recently started using the 'Form Display Logic' feature which is fairly new, but allows you to make instruments unopenable if certain logic hasn't been met, or if a user isn't a certain role (using the new role based logic).

However, we are struggling to make use of this Form Display Logic work at all with repeating instruments. Does anyone know if it is not possible to use Form Display Logic with repeating instruments, or if there is some specific way to reference the instance of the repeat in logic, which will make the logic work?

Many thanks

Tim Medlicott

Bristol Trials Centre, University of Bristol, UK

[Peter Macisaac (POP)]

Tim, 

I used this module to good effect in a project where some forms were to be completed by adults and some for children

Do you want to hide some forms based data in a repeating form ?

Do you want to hide or display a repeating form based on data in a standard form?

My general advice is to create a simple demo project that just highlights your need and usually you can rapidly try out all the options to potentially make it work

You can always contact the authors of the module

Peter Macisaac

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[Ignacio Alvarez Fernandez]

Hello,

I'm interested in this module too. Are you talking about the module called: "Form Render Skip Logic  (form_render_skip_logic_v3.3.13)" ??

Just to make sure before asking my admin to install it, cause we are having some full center's server falls after installing some modules.

Besides, even if it's not exactly the topic of this conversation, do you have any experience with these kinds of falls?

Many thanks

_____________

Ignacio Álvarez

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/redcap_open/133B7FD6-142F-46E7-B621-4D43828CDFF4%40macisaacinformatics.org.

[Luke Stevens]

Tim’s question relates to the functionality released in v12 named “Form Display Logic” which integrated the functionality of the “Form Render Skip Logic” external module and makes it obsolete.

 

Tim – I think it would help if you described what you want to achieve. It should be possible to hide a repeating form but it sounds like you have an idea about hiding particular instances? What’s the use case?

 

Regards,

Luke

 

From: redca...@googlegroups.com <redca...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Ignacio Alvarez Fernandez
Sent: Wednesday, 2 February 2022 07:20
To: Peter Macisaac (POP) <pe...@macisaacinformatics.org>
Cc: Tim Medlicott <tm166...@gmail.com>; redcap open <redca...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: "Form Display Logic" when using Repeating Instruments (v12.0.11)

 

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[Ignacio Alvarez Fernandez]

Thanks a lot for the clarification Luke.

I'll ask my center to update our version then!

_____________

Ignacio Álvarez Fernández

Neuropsicólogo / Metodólogo-Estadístico Investigación
Neuropsychologist / Research Methodology-Statistics

Email: ignacio...@gmail.com
Teléfono/Phone: +34 626273933

[Tim Medlicott]

Hi Luke and others! Many thanks for your replies. Yes, it's the new functionality (from v12) called 'Form Display Logic'. I wasn’t aware that this was previously available in an external module.

Unfortunately we have found that the Form Display Logic feature definitely does not work correctly with repeating instruments (at least not currently using REDCap v12.0.11).

As an example of how it’s not right, we have found that we can successfully block a certain role from opening a repeating instrument from the dashboard, but unfortunately they can simply click on a study ID to get to the Record Home Page and then access the '+' symbol to add another instance of a repeating instrument, that they shouldn't be able to access.

The logic that we were attempting that does not work, was saying: only make this instrument accessible to Role-B when a particular field in it has a value. This works great on a non-repeating instrument.

The plan was to use this on a 'medication request' instrument that could be completed multiple times by a 'prescriber' role ad hoc through-out the trial (irrespective of trial events). Once the ‘prescriber’ role had completed some fields in the instrument a 'pharmacist' role (that receives an alert) would then be able to open the same instrument and complete the fields they could edit to say it had been dispensed. Hence the need to have it as a single repeating instrument (as I don't think there's a way to link/associate instances of different repeating instruments). We already have the fields within the instrument locked down to the two different roles (so the 'pharmacist' can't edit the 'prescriber' fields and vice-versa), but it would of been great to block the 'pharmacist' role from the entire instrument until the 'prescriber' role had done their bit, as with REDCap users can just open an empty instrument, click save, and you end up with a red/green/yellow status icons for things where there’s no actual data. Plus in this scenario the ‘pharmacist’ role is a third party organisation outside of our university and I guess it's nice to be able to lock stuff down if you can. 

We've got what we want working properly on a similar non-repeating instrument called 'prescription'. It's a shame it won't work on a repeating instrument, but we've still got individual fields locked down by role and perhaps in time REDCap will fix this issue.

Thanks again for your replies. Tim

[Luke Stevens]

Hello Tim,

 

I’m still not sure I quite see how hiding the form by role will help with what you’re trying to achieve here. A couple of suggestions though:

 

• You say “as I don't think there's a way to link/associate instances of different repeating instruments”. This is exactly what repeating events are for. Each form in the repeating event repeats together in a correlated manner.
  
  
• Can you use external modules? If so, check out the “Hide Submit” module. It would let you do something like have branching logic show a descriptive text field to your “pharmacist” users on instances where the “prescriber” section was not sufficiently completed. You would tag the descriptive text field with @HIDESUBMIT which will result in there being no save buttons shown.

 

I hope that helps.

Luke

 

From: redca...@googlegroups.com <redca...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Tim Medlicott
Sent: Thursday, 3 February 2022 03:18
To: redcap open <redca...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL]Re: "Form Display Logic" when using Repeating Instruments (v12.0.11)

 

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Hi Luke and others! Many thanks for your replies. Yes, it's the new functionality (from v12) called 'Form Display Logic'. I wasn’t aware that this was previously available in an external module.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/redcap_open/95353345-3e7a-41a0-a2d7-c0c5724b7dd2n%40googlegroups.com.