25 year old Craftman 10 in 2HP table saw is smoking

[Michael]

Not too much and no smell, but it looks like the motor is about to go. What are my options? I hate to say good-bye to an old friend.

Mike

[Bob]

If it's a direct drive you may find someone to rebuild / rewind the motor.
If it's a belt drive, lots of options to having that motor rebuilt to a
number of replacements available. Need to know what type of mount, shaft
size, length, etc. Sears Parts may even have a replacement.

Bob S.

"Michael" wrote in message
news:701dc8c7-db1b-47c8...@googlegroups.com...

[Lew Hodgett]

"Michael" wrote:

> Not too much and no smell, but it looks like the motor is about to
> go. What are my options? I hate to say good-bye to an old friend.

----------------------------------------------------------
A replacement (You need one) 2HP, 3450RPM, cap start, cap run,
120/240V motor is available from your local Grainger.

Found a Model 5K961 from Grainger for $450.

Last time I bought one it was around $300 but that was then and this
is now.

BTDT, don't need the T-Shirt.

Good luck,

Lew

[Michael]

It's a direct drive. I like the idea of having someone rebuild the motor. What will that set me back?

Thanks.

[Lew Hodgett]

"Michael" wrote:

> It's a direct drive. I like the idea of having someone rebuild the
> motor. What will that set me back?

------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately a rewind of a fractional HP, direct drive motor will
probably cost 75%-80% of the cost of a new direct drive saw.

Lew

[Michael]

Yeah, I just talked to a guy who does this. He said it's going to cost more than the motor is worth.

[G. Ross]

Michael wrote: > Not too much and no smell, but it looks like the motor is about to go. What are my options? I hate to say good-bye to an old friend. > Mike 25 Years is way past the legal age for smoking. GW Ross Weird enough for all practical purposes.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 07:08:45 -0700 (PDT), Michael
<michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, September 6, 2013 11:23:17 PM UTC-5, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Michael" wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > It's a direct drive. I like the idea of having someone rebuild the


>

>Yeah, I just talked to a guy who does this. He said it's going to cost more than the motor is worth.

Is this the little direct drive saws that make a lot of noise and have
a table too small for a decent cross cut? If so, it may be time to
get an upgrade.

[Larry Blanchard]

I've got a 1948 Delta with a motor that's so heavy I can barely lift it.
Some of that is my age but it's still one *heavy* motor.

I was told by a guy who worked at a motor place that if it ever failed, I
should get it fixed instead of replacing it because the newer motors
didn't have anything like the torque of the old ones.

I don't know if he was correct or if this applies to the OPs motor. Just
something to consider besides cost.

--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

[Artemus]

"Michael" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:701dc8c7-db1b-47c8...@googlegroups.com...

> Not too much and no smell, but it looks like the motor is about to go. What are my options? I hate
> to say good-bye to an old friend.
>
> Mike

Blow out the accumulated sawdust with compressed air. A motor that can't
breathe is going to get hot. Open it up if necessary, This will be a good time
to oil the bearings too.
Art

[Michael]

I went by Sears today. I like this saw.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-10-in-contractor-saw-sears-21833/p-00921833000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=00921833000&kispla=00921833000P

The motor is 1 3/4 HP. Will I miss that much HP since I've been using at 2 HP for years? The most stress I put on the saw is ripping 45 inch long green hickory that I've planed to square.

The lesser-priced saw has some kind of flange sticking into the miter slot that will not let me use my many jigs. What a bad idea.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-10-in-contractor-saw-sears-21833/p-00921833000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=00921833000&kispla=00921833000P

Mike

[Michael]

I blew out the dust with my air compressor. I haven't oiled the bearings. I don't know how but I'll figure it out and try that.

Thanks!

[Tim Daneliuk]

On 09/06/2013 08:53 PM, Michael wrote:
> Not too much and no smell, but it looks like the motor is about to go. What are my options? I hate to say good-bye to an old friend.
>
> Mike
>

Surprisingly, Sears Parts may still have replacement motors
for this. Get the full parts number off the saw and have a look
on their website or call a local Sears Parts outlet.

I have a saw of similar vintage and will not part with it. It fits
my garage/shop corner perfectly and is of a vintage that still had
machined metal surfaces as opposed to the newer plastic/aluminum.
Unfortunately, the motor is going to set you back a nice chunk of
change. But .. it's probably only a bit more than having the motor
rebuilt and you get a brand new motor ... for another 25 years.

I have modified mine so extensively that table surface, motor,
and frame are all that are left of the original saw:

http://www.tundraware.com/Woodworking/TableSaw/

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk tun...@tundraware.com
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

[Larry Blanchard]

On Sat, 07 Sep 2013 13:50:16 -0700, Michael wrote:

> The motor is 1 3/4 HP. Will I miss that much HP since I've been using at
> 2 HP for years? The most stress I put on the saw is ripping 45 inch long
> green hickory that I've planed to square.

Horsepower ratings on saws are nebulous at best. Look at the amperage
instead. It takes 745 watts (amps * volts) to make one horsepower and
that's if the motor is 100% efficient which none are. A 15 amp motor
might go to 1 3/4 horsepower but even that is doubtful.

And look at some other brands than Craftsman, the Sears stuff ain't what
it used to be. I don't know what your budget is but Jet, Delta, and
Powermatic all make better saws than Craftsman. And if the sky's the
limit there's always Sawstop.

[Knuttle]

On 9/7/2013 5:29 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> On 09/06/2013 08:53 PM, Michael wrote:
>> Not too much and no smell, but it looks like the motor is about to go.
>> What are my options? I hate to say good-bye to an old friend.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>
> Surprisingly, Sears Parts may still have replacement motors
> for this. Get the full parts number off the saw and have a look
> on their website or call a local Sears Parts outlet.
>
> I have a saw of similar vintage and will not part with it. It fits
> my garage/shop corner perfectly and is of a vintage that still had
> machined metal surfaces as opposed to the newer plastic/aluminum.
> Unfortunately, the motor is going to set you back a nice chunk of
> change. But .. it's probably only a bit more than having the motor
> rebuilt and you get a brand new motor ... for another 25 years.
>
> I have modified mine so extensively that table surface, motor,
> and frame are all that are left of the original saw:
>
> http://www.tundraware.com/Woodworking/TableSaw/
>

Before doing away with the saw look on the net or in the phone book and
find a shop that handles small electric motors.

Many years ago I thought my motor was dead, As you found replacement
motors are expensive. I took it to a local shop. He showed me what
the problem was. (Old saw dust and wood chips in the contacts.) That
was over 10 years ago and the motor is working perfectly.

After every use, I use the vacuum to clean all of the openings on the
motor. Every couple of years I take it a part and clean everything.
Just carefully put it back together and make sure there are no extra
parts when you are done. It is really a simple task.

I have a 10" Sears table saw that was purchased new in 1969. It has
the cast iron top. I would not trade it for any thing similar made
today, it I could find a 10" table saw with anything but a pressed steel
top.

[Lew Hodgett]

Michael wrote:

> Yeah, I just talked to a guy who does this. He said it's going to
> cost more than the motor is worth.
>
> I went by Sears today. I like this saw.
>
> http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-10-in-contractor-saw-sears-21833/p-00921833000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=00921833000&kispla=00921833000P
>
> The motor is 1 3/4 HP. Will I miss that much HP since I've been
> using at 2 HP for years? The most stress I put on the saw is ripping
> 45 inch long green hickory that I've planed to square.
>
> The lesser-priced saw has some kind of flange sticking into the
> miter slot that will not let me use my many jigs. What a bad idea.
>
> http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-10-in-contractor-saw-sears-21833/p-00921833000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=00921833000&kispla=00921833000P

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
SFWIW

NEMA rates a 1-1/2 HP and a 2 HP general purpose motor but not a 1-3/4
HP motor.

To get a 1-3/4 HP motor requires a slip stick and some assumptions<G>.

We all know what assuming does.

Don't have a slip stick, use a calculator.

In any event, you are going to want to operate at 240V.

Hickory is a tough wood and green hickory is even more difficult to
cut.

About 15 years ago, bought a Delta contractor's saw complete with a
Unifence
for about $800.

No blade was included and that saw is no longer offered for sale.

Sears & Roebuck offered a pretty decent line of homeowner grade power
tools with their Craftsman brand; however, over the last 20 years,
they have
degraded the brand to the point that today it is widely referred to as
Crapsman.

IMHO, $550 does NOT buy a tablesaw that is worth bringing home.

As others have mentioned, probably time to look at what is offered in
the market.

You don't indicate whether this is for a hobby or a business, but if
it were me,
I'd look very hard at the SawStop and try very hard to convince myself
that
there is no way I can't afford not to own one.

Have fun.

Lew

[woodchucker]

Look on Craigs list, you can buy a vintage unit for under 100, just take
the motor and use the rest for parts.

--
--
Jeff

[Frank]

On Saturday, September 7, 2013 4:50:16 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>
> The motor is 1 3/4 HP. Will I miss that much HP since I've been using at 2 HP for years? The most stress I put on the saw is ripping 45 inch long green hickory that I've planed to square.

2 HP "maximum developed" horsepower? That's a sales pitch used most often
by Sears to make their universal motors look good. Likely, your saw
was putting out 1-1/2 hp constant power.

[Larry W]

Don't rule out used saws. I see Delta and Jet contractor saws at reasonable
prices on Craig's list fairly often.
--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

[jo4hn]

On 9/7/2013 1:50 PM, Michael wrote:

>>
>> Yeah, I just talked to a guy who does this. He said it's going to cost more than the motor is worth.
>
> I went by Sears today. I like this saw.
>
> http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-10-in-contractor-saw-sears-21833/p-00921833000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=00921833000&kispla=00921833000P
>
> The motor is 1 3/4 HP. Will I miss that much HP since I've been using at 2 HP for years? The most stress I put on the saw is ripping 45 inch long green hickory that I've planed to square.
>
> The lesser-priced saw has some kind of flange sticking into the miter slot that will not let me use my many jigs. What a bad idea.
>
> http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-10-in-contractor-saw-sears-21833/p-00921833000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=00921833000&kispla=00921833000P
>
> Mike
>

That is the saw that I bought to replace my wood shop (which went to my
youngest daughter when we moved and downsized). I went with Sears
because ratings were pretty good, it was fairly cheap, and there is a
Sears about a half mile away so I can beat up on the salesman if
everything doesn't go my way. Anyway, it went together quite easily and
required only very minor adjustments out of the box. Fit and finish
were just fine. It doesn't get heavy usage but I have cut some IPE and
forbuhfor doug fir. No problem. I can recommend it for anyone who
doesn't do commercial work any more but wants to keep his hand in.
mahalo,
jo4hn
(I lied about beating him up. He looked a bit on the burly side.)

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sun, 8 Sep 2013 13:47:42 +0000 (UTC), lwas...@sdf.lonestar.org
(Larry W) wrote:

>Don't rule out used saws. I see Delta and Jet contractor saws at reasonable
>prices on Craig's list fairly often.

Most of those saws are from guys that can't get "wood" any more and
either had to give up the hobby or died. Most have been fairly well
cared for. Take some extra cash as the family may also be selling
some other goodies at bargain prices.

[-MIKE-]

On 9/7/13 3:50 PM, Michael wrote:
> I went by Sears today. I like this saw.
>
> http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-10-in-contractor-saw-sears-21833/p-00921833000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=00921833000&kispla=00921833000P
>
> The motor is 1 3/4 HP. Will I miss that much HP since I've been
> using at 2 HP for years? The most stress I put on the saw is ripping
> 45 inch long green hickory that I've planed to square.
>
> The lesser-priced saw has some kind of flange sticking into the miter
> slot that will not let me use my many jigs. What a bad idea.
>
> http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-10-in-contractor-saw-sears-21833/p-00921833000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=00921833000&kispla=00921833000P
>
> Mike
>

I don't know how old your Craftsman is but the new ones are no where
near the quality of the old ones. They make them all shiny and put on
big plastic knobs and dials to make them appear hefty and high quality,
but you can get much better saws for the money.
I don't know about that saw but Craftsman also has a nasty habit of
making their miter slots different dimension than the industry standard
so that you have to buy their accessories. They are also notorious for
being *non* adjustable in critical areas like arbor to slot fine tuning.

Someone else mentioned craigslist. If you're in a decent sized city,
you can get some incredible deals on there. I got my $1k Delta tablesaw
for $225 and it was a year old.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 16:31:26 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
<lbl...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 21:23:17 -0700, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>>> It's a direct drive. I like the idea of having someone rebuild the
>>> motor. What will that set me back?
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Unfortunately a rewind of a fractional HP, direct drive motor will
>> probably cost 75%-80% of the cost of a new direct drive saw.
>
>I've got a 1948 Delta with a motor that's so heavy I can barely lift it.
>Some of that is my age but it's still one *heavy* motor.
>
>I was told by a guy who worked at a motor place that if it ever failed, I
>should get it fixed instead of replacing it because the newer motors
>didn't have anything like the torque of the old ones.

A new one might not have the weight of an old one and may not be as
efficient (or more) but HP is HP. (HP == torque*RPM - RPM is
constant).

[Roy]

On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 13:50:16 -0700 (PDT), Michael <michael...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I went by Sears today. I like this saw.
>
>http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-10-in-contractor-saw-sears-21833/p-00921833000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=00921833000&kispla=00921833000P
>
>The motor is 1 3/4 HP. Will I miss that much HP since I've been using at 2 HP for years? The most stress I put on the saw is ripping 45 inch long green hickory that I've planed to square.
>
>The lesser-priced saw has some kind of flange sticking into the miter slot that will not let me use my many jigs. What a bad idea.
>
>http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-10-in-contractor-saw-sears-21833/p-00921833000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=00921833000&kispla=00921833000P
>
>Mike

FWIW, Mike, I spent $350 for a Jet contractor saw, with the Rockler outfeed
table, mobile base, a few half decent blades a couple summers ago to get my son
started in woodworking. It was used, but very little. Take a look on
Craigslist or contact your local woodworking club. You could wind up with a
heck of a deal and a much better saw.

Regards,
Roy

[Michael]

I'm thinking the same thing, but I also like the idea of the warranty as well as the yearly extended warranties that you can get for Sears products. I looked around and there are some pretty good deals in the area. If I'm patient, I'm sure something will work out.

Something like this, for example: http://wausau.craigslist.org/tls/4046902862.html

Thanks.

[Larry Blanchard]

On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 18:10:21 -0400, krw wrote:

> A new one might not have the weight of an old one and may not be as
> efficient (or more) but HP is HP. (HP == torque*RPM - RPM is constant).

Offhand I don't recall what the HP rating is, but I bet it's for real and
not "peak developed HP" :-).

I wonder if the heavier motor has more inertia to keep it going through
momentary tough spots?

[Larry Blanchard]

On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 19:26:20 -0700, Michael wrote:

> Something like this, for example:
> http://wausau.craigslist.org/tls/4046902862.html

That's an oldie but goodie. If you have 220, go for it. The seller
sounds like he'd even reduce the price a little. But make sure you've
got some strong helpers to move it :-).

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Sun, 8 Sep 2013 19:26:20 -0700 (PDT), Michael

<michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 8, 2013 9:18:27 PM UTC-5, Roy wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 13:50:16 -0700 (PDT), Michael <michael...@gmail.com>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >I went by Sears today. I like this saw.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-10-in-contractor-saw-sears-21833/p-00921833000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=00921833000&kispla=00921833000P
>>
>> >
>>
>> >The motor is 1 3/4 HP. Will I miss that much HP since I've been using at 2 HP for years? The most stress I put on the saw is ripping 45 inch long green hickory that I've planed to square.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >The lesser-priced saw has some kind of flange sticking into the miter slot that will not let me use my many jigs. What a bad idea.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-10-in-contractor-saw-sears-21833/p-00921833000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=00921833000&kispla=00921833000P
>>
>> >
>>
>> >Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> FWIW, Mike, I spent $350 for a Jet contractor saw, with the Rockler outfeed
>>
>> table, mobile base, a few half decent blades a couple summers ago to get my son
>>
>> started in woodworking. It was used, but very little. Take a look on
>>
>> Craigslist or contact your local woodworking club. You could wind up with a
>>
>> heck of a deal and a much better saw.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Roy
>
>I'm thinking the same thing, but I also like the idea of the warranty as well as the yearly extended warranties that you can get for Sears products. I looked around and there are some pretty good deals in the area. If I'm patient, I'm sure something will work out.

Forget the warranty and *particularly* any extended warranties. Use
that money to buy a better saw. IMO, if you go cheap, you'll be
kicking yourself for a long time. Buying he best only hurts once.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Mon, 9 Sep 2013 15:59:04 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
<lbl...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 18:10:21 -0400, krw wrote:
>
>> A new one might not have the weight of an old one and may not be as
>> efficient (or more) but HP is HP. (HP == torque*RPM - RPM is constant).
>
>Offhand I don't recall what the HP rating is, but I bet it's for real and
>not "peak developed HP" :-).

The point being that, for motors, HP is defined as torque*RPM (times
some constant - 5550 if torque is in ft-lbs). SO for a given HP,
(real) torque will be the same for all motors of the same RPM (which
60Hz induction motors used in saws will be).

Who knows what "peak developed HP" is? I think it's also called
"Sears HP". ;-) I really like their 3.5HP shop vacs. Those things
really suck! ;-)

>I wonder if the heavier motor has more inertia to keep it going through
>momentary tough spots?

Not enough to mention. Most of the weight difference will be in the
stator and housing, anyway. Again, a heavier motor may be more
efficient because it may have more copper in the windings, something a
newer motor is certainly going to try to minimize. It's more likely
that the older ones are under-engineered[*], though.

[*] Any fool can build a bridge that stands. It takes a real engineer
to make a bridge that barely stands. ;-)

[Michael]

Any thoughts on this table saw?

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/for/4017043344.html

[Larry Blanchard]

On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 14:32:39 -0700, Michael wrote:

> Any thoughts on this table saw?
>
> http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/for/4017043344.html

Without a model number it's hard to tell. Delta made some good stuff and
a few that weren't much better than Sears. I don't like the extensions.
I prefer the solid cast iron ones. But the corrugated are better than
the waffle iron ones.

[-MIKE-]

On 9/9/13 4:32 PM, Michael wrote:
> Any thoughts on this table saw?
>
> http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/for/4017043344.html
>

Not great, but might be worth $125-150.
It has a cast iron top, but those fence rails are suspect.

Honestly, I'd rather go for that Jet you posted earlier.
The guy said he was open to offers, so maybe lowball him at $250 and see
if he counters with $300. Those old Jets are big, heavy-duty sumbiches
and can be adjusted to cut perfectly. If it's in any decent shape at all
with a decent fence, it would be a better saw than that Delta above.

[Michael]

So for my uses (hobbyist) and price range, I think I've settled on finding a used Jet. Any thoughts on this saw (quality and price)?

Thanks.

http://appleton.craigslist.org/tls/3995302654.html

[-MIKE-]

On 9/11/13 12:29 PM, Michael wrote:
>
> So for my uses (hobbyist) and price range, I think I've settled on
> finding a used Jet. Any thoughts on this saw (quality and price)?
>
> Thanks.
>
> http://appleton.craigslist.org/tls/3995302654.html
>

I think $550 is high for that saw. $400 would be reasonable... just my
opinion, of course.
I would want to look inside and underneath before committing. That is
quite a bit of surface rust on the table top. That tells me the owner
never applied a protectant to the top and/or the thing sat in a very
humid environment for a long, long time. I can't tell if the marks on
the bottoms of the legs are mud or rust. If they are rust, I would
definitely want get get a close, inside look at arbor, motor mounts,
belts pulleys, the arbor tilting gears, all the bolts,etc., and with a
flashlight, anywhere you can see inside the motor for signs of rust.

Normally, I would chalk up that table rust to normal humidity/non-use
rusting that occurs on those iron tops. However, in the picture of his
jointer, there appears to be what might be rust on the tops of the
adjustment wheel-cranks.

That is all speculation, obviously, but it's cause for concern. *I*
would want to carefully inspect it as I described above. I would also,
most certainly want to hear and see the thing run. Best case scenario,
that table top rust is just light surface rust and the rest of the saw
is spotless. Worst case, the thing was in a flood. There were a lot of
'flood tools' on craigslist Nashville after the 2010 flood.

[G. Ross]

-MIKE- wrote: > On 9/11/13 12:29 PM, Michael wrote: >> So for my uses (hobbyist) and price range, I think I've settled on >> finding a used Jet. Any thoughts on this saw (quality and price)? >> Thanks. >> http://appleton.craigslist.org/tls/3995302654.html > I think $550 is high for that saw. $400 would be reasonable... just my > opinion, of course. > I would want to look inside and underneath before committing. That is > quite a bit of surface rust on the table top. That tells me the owner > never applied a protectant to the top and/or the thing sat in a very > humid environment for a long, long time. I can't tell if the marks on > the bottoms of the legs are mud or rust. If they are rust, I would > definitely want get get a close, inside look at arbor, motor mounts, > belts pulleys, the arbor tilting gears, all the bolts,etc., and with a > flashlight, anywhere you can see inside the motor for signs of rust. > Normally, I would chalk up that table rust to normal humidity/non-use > rusting that occurs on those iron tops. However, in the picture of his > jointer, there appears to be what might be rust on the tops of the > adjustment wheel-cranks. > That is all speculation, obviously, but it's cause for concern. *I* > would want to carefully inspect it as I described above. I would also, > most certainly want to hear and see the thing run. Best case scenario, > that table top rust is just light surface rust and the rest of the saw > is spotless. Worst case, the thing was in a flood. There were a lot of > 'flood tools' on craigslist Nashville after the 2010 flood. I concur. I own one just like that and have never had any problems with it. But The price and the rust gives me pause. GW Ross If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.

[-MIKE-]

You might be better able to speak to the price.
From what I can gather, it was about $800, new, is that accurate?

[Ray]

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 10:29:57 -0700 (PDT), Michael
<michael...@gmail.com> wrote:


>
>So for my uses (hobbyist) and price range, I think I've settled on finding a used Jet. Any thoughts on this saw (quality and price)?
>
>Thanks.
>
>http://appleton.craigslist.org/tls/3995302654.html

Have you considered RIDGID 13-Amp 10 in. Model # R4512, I own one and
am quite happy with it.

New price is $1 less than asking price of the Jet.

Ray

[Michael]

Great information, Mike. I'm trying not to get impatient, but life is hard without table saw. There are so many table saws on Craiglist I'm sure a great deal will turn up.

[Michael]

I'm definitely going to go to Home Depot and have a look. It has a cast iron top and it's gotten very good reviews. I like the brand OK. I have a Ridgid 1200 lathe that I've turned a million things on, although I kind of long for a lathe with a little more substance.

[Michael]

On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 4:02:52 PM UTC-5, Ray wrote:

According to this guy, this Craftsman saw is the same as the Ridgid R4512. Did you have issues with alignment?

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921833000P?clicked=true#reviewsWrap

Criticism13 found this helpful
joelav
Jul 5 , 2012
Be careful of alignment issues
First off, let me clear up some misconceptions. This is NOT a JET, Grizzly, or Rikon saw rebranded. This is NOT a cabinet saw. Even though the motor is enclosed, the trunions are table mounted; not cabinet mounted. This is however, the same basic saw as the Ridgid R4512 with minor cosmetic differences. This saw has 2 fatal flaws that need to be taken into account before purchase, and need to me taken seriously: 1 - The blade is known to change alignment with height adjustment. This will cause your cuts to be off my as much as 1/16" of an inch for every 10" of wood you cut. You could have a difference of almost half an inch if you rip an 8 foot board. That is a very serious problem that will ruin your work. Not only that it creates a dangerous situation. If your rip fence and blade are not in alignment, it creates a dangerous kickback situation. It cannot be fixed, it cannot be adjusted out. Fortunately, there are examples of this saw (and the R4512) that do not have this issue. PLEASE test your alignment BEFORE you assemble this saw. Google "alignment issues, R4512" and you will find the procedure. It is simple and only requires you install the blade and have a metal ruler handy. If you saw fails this test, return it. It cannot be fixed. 2 - The fence rail is an issue. Because it is in two pieces, when you have the fence closer than 3" to the blade, the clamping force can change the geometry of the fence, causing misalignment. With that said, if you get this saw without the alignment issue, it is an excellent saw. If you are really careful clamping down the fence, you can avoid the geometry change. There are also many aftermarket fences that fit this saw. Again, there is not as much information out there on the craftsman version, but it is nearly identical to the Ridgid R4512. If you want to do additional research before getting this saw, consider all the reviews on the R4512 as well. In addition, the blade is a throw away. I wouldn't even bother cleaning the grease off and installing it. This is not uncommon and most blades that come with any saw are cheap. You are buying a saw that can provide professional results if properly set up for under 700$. That is a great bargain. Do youself a favor and get a good quality blade or two. If you decide to use the included blade, please do not judge the performance of the saw based on that. I have used it, I can confirm it is terrible. There is no doubt about it. I hope Sears and the others that sell this saw can clear up the manufacturing issues with the trunions. Craftsman has taken a beating lately, and this saw is a real gem and could restore the faith in the brand that our fathers and grandfathers once had. I cannot stress this enough - TEST your saw for the alignment issue. It is extremely common. It cannot be fixed, and it will ruin your work and possibly create a dangerous kickback situation.

[-MIKE-]

On 9/11/13 6:03 PM, Michael wrote:
>>
>> Ray
>
> According to this guy, this Craftsman saw is the same as the Ridgid
> R4512. Did you have issues with alignment?
>
> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921833000P?clicked=true#reviewsWrap
>

One major advantage to newer saws is the riving knife.
It acts as the splitter and never comes off the saw which is nice when
you're not making through cuts or when you need to rake the guard off
for whatever reason.

I would thoroughly investigate that alignment issue because that would
be a deal breaker. If it's something that can be fixed in your first
major set-up and alignment-- in which you adjust the blade, slots, and
fence all parallel to each other-- then no problem. But if the trunnion
mounts are not adjustable/shim-able then it's no better than a $200
bench-top table saw.

[Michael]

That alignment issue scares me a lot, but it's 10 percent off right now and I've got a 50 dollar gift card somewhere, so that brings the price to $450.00.

If I have the option to return any saw with imperfect alignment, this might work out.

[Unquestionably Confused]

On 9/11/2013 12:29 PM, Michael wrote:

> So for my uses (hobbyist) and price range, I think I've settled on finding a used Jet. Any thoughts on this saw (quality and price)?
>
> Thanks.
>
> http://appleton.craigslist.org/tls/3995302654.html

$550 for that particular Jet seems way too much. Don't get me wrong,
the older Jets (blue paint job) are strong workers. Fact is that about
five years ago I scored a Jet (same vintage) cabinet saw at a local
garage sale for $400. Even came with a great aftermarket fenc.

Heavy sucker that works like a charm, tweaked it so everything is dead
nuts on and it stays that way. For that $550 you should be able to do
better, even if it's an older vintage Unisaw.

I wouldn't give him more than $350-$400 for that saw on a good day.

Bottom line: Quality is there but the price ain't

[G. Ross]

-MIKE- wrote: > On 9/11/13 1:55 PM, G. Ross wrote: >> -MIKE- wrote: >>> On 9/11/13 12:29 PM, Michael wrote: >>>> >>>> So for my uses (hobbyist) and price range, I think I've settled on >>>> finding a used Jet. Any thoughts on this saw (quality and price)? >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> http://appleton.craigslist.org/tls/3995302654.html >>>> >>> I think $550 is high for that saw. $400 would be reasonable... just my >>> opinion, of course. >>> I would want to look inside and underneath before committing. That is >>> quite a bit of surface rust on the table top. That tells me the owner >>> never applied a protectant to the top and/or the thing sat in a very >>> humid environment for a long, long time. I can't tell if the marks on >>> the bottoms of the legs are mud or rust. If they are rust, I would >>> definitely want get get a close, inside look at arbor, motor mounts, >>> belts pulleys, the arbor tilting gears, all the bolts,etc., and with a >>> flashlight, anywhere you can see inside the motor for signs of rust. >>> Normally, I would chalk up that table rust to normal humidity/non-use >>> rusting that occurs on those iron tops. However, in the picture of his >>> jointer, there appears to be what might be rust on the tops of the >>> adjustment wheel-cranks. >>> That is all speculation, obviously, but it's cause for concern. *I* >>> would want to carefully inspect it as I described above. I would also, >>> most certainly want to hear and see the thing run. Best case scenario, >>> that table top rust is just light surface rust and the rest of the saw >>> is spotless. Worst case, the thing was in a flood. There were a lot of >>> 'flood tools' on craigslist Nashville after the 2010 flood. >> I concur. I own one just like that and have never had any problems with >> it. But The price and the rust gives me pause. > You might be better able to speak to the price. > From what I can gather, it was about $800, new, is that accurate? More like $700 When I bought it about 18 years ago. It was a floor model and they threw in a Jet dust collector like the one in the picture for $100 more. GW Ross If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.

[Ray]

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 19:16:04 -0700 (PDT), Michael
<michael...@gmail.com> wrote:


>
>That alignment issue scares me a lot, but it's 10 percent off right now and I've got a 50 dollar gift card somewhere, so that brings the price to $450.00.
>
>If I have the option to return any saw with imperfect alignment, this might work out.

I have had the saw for over a year. It is a hobby but I have ripped
some 2" maple and made a fair number if cuts. Out of curiosity I
measured the alignment by using a digital caliper to measure the
distance from a tooth to the far end of the miter slot. I got
measurements that were repeatable within +/- .001". The reading at
the front and back of the blade were the same. So I would say the
alignment is within .001". This is good enough for woodworking.

Another use I have is making segmented bowls. With 12 segments there
are 24 cuts per ring. Any error in the cut is cumulative. Initially
I was using miter saw and the rings would not close. They were off
by a degree or more. I built a sled that allows me to tilt the blade
to cut the segments. I dial in the desired angle, cut the segments
and they fit with no discernible gap. No adjustment needed.

HD is good about taking stuff back. If you get a bad one just return
it. Any product will receive some negative reviews but 181 out of 200
(90%) reviewers recommend this product. And you know what to look
for.

I got 10% off because Lowes and Home Depot are very generous in giving
a discount to all disabled veterans.

Ray

[Leon]

You are not going to want a saw with alignment issues!!!!!! THINK OF
YOUR SAFETY.

Far better to spend more for a better saw. If you cannot afford one
now, save until you can.

[Leon]

Price should never trump safety!!