Let's Talk Emmert Clones!
-N.
...we need you to do the talking because we know nothing about them other
than that they exist and are sold by Woodcraft. All we have is a 2" square
photo in a catalogue and a paragraph of sales copy.
I'm refering to the patternmaking vice Woodcraft sells for $215 and are
most likely imports based upon the smaller Emmert vises (not the sweet
looking high-end Tucker vise by Veritas or the vises marketed
contemporaneous with the original Emmerts by other manufacturers.)
Anybody out there care to give their impressions or experience with this
cloned vise...SOMEONE out there has had to bump into one of these in their
woodworking career.
ANY feedback would be helpful...someone who has used one, owned one,
tinkered with one in the store, cursed the day they bought it, etc. There
are a couple of woodworkers out here intrigued by Emmerts but can't commit
the cash for originals and are interested in learning more about this
cloned product and if it is of reasonable quality and tooling to justify
the purchase. The decision here involves making a commitment to the vise
and placing it as the crowned jewel in a handmade bench, and at the heart
of our future woodworking process. We desperately need some feedback.
Thanks.
Cheers,
-Neal
--
N
To reach me, remove _xxx from my address.
Warren Ceroll
The model shop where I work has used Emmert vices for many years and
recently has purchased the pattern makers vice through Woodcraft. I got
a chance to fondle it recently and the opinion of myself and the shop
manager is that it is very good quality and an excellent value compared
to finding an original Emmert for sale. I bought an Emmert turtleback a
while ago, and have not restored it yet. I wish now that I had bought
the one from Woodcraft.
Best regards,
Warren Ceroll
The tool man
I have not actually seen the Emmert clone you refer to, but I have found
some information at:
http://www.wwforum.com/faqs_articles/wcraft_vise.html
Other than that, I know nothing about it. However, I, too am interested
in getting more information about Emmert clones. Unless I luck up on
one at a yard sale or auction, I'll probably never get a real Emmert as
the collectors have driven the price up too much. I am also considering
building my own. I have access to the equipment and materials to make a
steel version. Anybody out there willing to let me measure their vise?
Anybody got plans for one?
Regards,
John.
--
The right tool for the job is in your head.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Jim Stuard
I used an Emmert for three years when working at a reproduction antique
furniture shop a few years ago. Great vise. When I was getting ready to
build a bench here at the mag, I contacted the now defunct AMT (American
Machine Tools) and got one of their Emmert copies (same price as WC and
probably from the same supplier). While the castings and workmanship are a
bit crude compared to the original, it still graces my bench. I was and
still am a big fan of the quick release vises but you get used to swinging
the arm on this beast around to open it up. Make some custom baltic birch
jaws. Mine are held in with rare earth magnets and dowel indexed, so you can
get to the little metal working vise on the other side with ease. I'd highly
reccommend mounting the jaws flush with the edge of the bench. Your also
going to need quite a chunk of top to mount this beast(around 2 1/4" to 2
1/2"). It weighs in around 80 lbs. and feels like it during installation.
The one thing that I'll fix when I get the chance, is the hinge on the
top of the vise. It is a tad loose and requires removal and the addition of
a shim to firm things up. Otherwise the vise will rattle. Annoying, when
cutting dovetails or edgeplaning. Lastly, don't forget to hit all of the
sharp edges with a file. Theres plenty of 'em.
-I hope this helps,
*****************************
James A. Stuard
Associate Editor
Popular Woodworking Magazine
1507 Dana Ave.
Cincinnati, OH 45207
(513) 531-2690 ext.348
Write me at Ji...@fwpubs.com
See our site at http://www.popwood.com
*****************************
----------
In article
<redirect-300...@dialup-209.246.107.149.newyork2.level3.net>,
Paul Glass
part number: APTCPMV
Jaws 13 7/8" wide
opens to 13"
Jaws can rotate a full 360° in either direction
Four integral dogs
etc..
Price is @ Ł128 plus tax
about $205
They will ship overseas.
"Jim Stuard" <ji...@fwpubs.com> wrote in message
news:4Ngl4.152$k44.244@client...
Paul T. Radovanic
>I'd highly
>reccommend mounting the jaws flush with the edge of the bench. Your also
>going to need quite a chunk of top to mount this beast(around 2 1/4" to 2
>1/2"). It weighs in around 80 lbs. and feels like it during installation.
My new Woodcraft PM vise arrived today. I haven't had a chance to
unpack it yet. FWIW, I think it weighs a little over 50 lbs.
Jim, can you clarify that comment about mounting the jaws flush with
the edge? Do you mean that I should make the left edge of the jaw
even with the left end of the benchtop? Why?
Thanks,
Paul Rad
Ross
Jim Stuard
Thx for the info. Maybe it just felt like 80 lbs. Sorry for not being
more clear about mounting the vise. What I meant was that you should mount
the inside jaw, plus the thickness of the jaw pad, flush with the front edge
of the bench.The reason being that it makes holding long boards using dogs
or a jack, easier.
FWIW, you might, overall, get some more versatility by letting the vise
stick out, but all I do is woodworking on my bench, so it suits me fine
having it flush.
Try as I might to not shil the mag, we did a story on my bench in our
May 97 issue (#97). Call or write privately for more info.
*****************************
James A. Stuard
Associate Editor
Popular Woodworking Magazine
1507 Dana Ave.
Cincinnati, OH 45207
(513) 531-2690 ext.348
Write me at Ji...@fwpubs.com
See our site at http://www.popwood.com
*****************************
----------
In article <38963a4e...@news.concentric.net>, pau...@concentric.net
Robert Shepherd
It's a high quality item beautifully machined parts and quick release
jaws, and it includes the hardware for a foot control of the quick
release mechanism. It's pricey, though. About $500.00 as I recall. You
can check it out at www.leevalley.com. I agree that the Woodcraft
clone looks like the vise sold by AMT a few years ago.
Shep
On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 07:11:29 GMT, redi...@earthlink.net_xxx (-N.)
John Gunterman
shep...@earthlink.net (Robert Shepherd) wrote:
> Lee Valley sells the Veritas "Tucker Vise" which is an Emmert clone.
I played with one extesnively when I was visiting the Ottawa store last
summer. While it is ceratinly an Emmert Clone. LVT can't leave anything
alone, when they re-do it... An lucky for us! Because the quick release
feature is fantastic.
> It's a high quality item beautifully machined parts and quick release
> jaws, and it includes the hardware for a foot control of the quick
> release mechanism. It's pricey, though.
No doubt!
I bought my Emmert for less that the cost of the Tucker, and even
re-sold it for less that the cost of the Tucker. If you cannot find am
Emmert, and want "the best" the Lee Valley Tucker is for you.
>I agree that the Woodcraft clone looks like the vise sold by AMT a few
years ago.
The Woodcraft clone _is_ made by the same people in the same factory as
the AMT. I know this because the owner of that factory found me via my
Emmert Page ( http://www.shavings.net/EMMERT.HTM ) and we exchanged some
dialog.
But just because they came from the same place does not mean they are
the same. Woodcraft bumped up the specs on the fit and finish.
I have seen the old AMT's and own the woodcraft. They absolutely were
cast from the same patterns... but the final milling and machining was
done to a higher degree. ther than that they are the smame thing though.
And while we are on the subject, yes, I sold my Emmert and replaced it
with the Woodcraft. Nobody in thier right minds would ever do such a
thing! SO heat up the tar, and go get a pile of feathers from the
chicken-coop.
I had the _big_ Emmert (the "RotoTilt" model pictured in the Workbench
Book)damned thing was a battle ship, weighed in at 87 Lbs! I needed
quite a substantial bench loaded w/ lots of ballast to support that
thing. Most of my work is on a smaller scale so when I get a smaller
bench I otped for a smaller Emmert type vise, to go with it.
While the Woodcraft does not have the charm and mystique of a real
Emmert, it does everything an Emmert should do.
I still wish I bought the Tucker though, it's just so darned expensive.
If the folks at Lee valley wanted to trade me, I'd gladly swap them my
Woodcraft for a Tucker, but that is not likely to happen.
If you really want to feel you wallet go into convulsions, ust look at
the Kindt Collin's!!!
--
John Gunterman
Travis Anton
<redirect-300...@dialup-209.246.107.149.newyork2.level3.net>,
redi...@earthlink.net_xxx (-N.) wrote:
> Well...(cough)...
> ...we need you to do the talking because we know nothing about them other
> than that they exist and are sold by Woodcraft. All we have is a 2" square
> photo in a catalogue and a paragraph of sales copy.
There's an Emmert page on-line somewhere (don't remember the URL, but I
do remember not too many pages show up on a search on "Emmert" using
Infoseek, that's how I found it) that has a long spiel on those. Fit and
finish was quite lacking in comparison to the original.
I only have first hand experience with the original Emmert K1, and can't
say what you would get from a clone. I wouldn't trade mine for the world
now, I will say.
Mine took a month of active searching to find and set me back a hefty
$700 by the time the FedEx from PA was counted.
Granted, this is not for the budget conscious, but it was my birthday
and I was on a mission to have the mother of all vices.
> I'm refering to the patternmaking vice Woodcraft sells for $215 and are
> most likely imports based upon the smaller Emmert vises (not the sweet
> looking high-end Tucker vise by Veritas or the vises marketed
> contemporaneous with the original Emmerts by other manufacturers.)
The Tucker vise seems to be closely patterned on an Emmert, but by no
means at all a clone. The function appears the same, but the design is
actually quite different. The vise is also much smaller than an Emmert
K1, which is the monster of all vices. It's the size of the smaller K2
that was sold, or fairly close.
I'm inclined to believe you would probably have a better vice from the
Tucker vice. Veritas is into fit and finish, and put some though into a
new design to do the same thing as an Emmert. Woodcraft is marketing a
cheap Taiwanese clone.
I heard someone say something (someone fill in the blanks here) that a
different company made a high quality clone of an Emmert that sold for
around $1000, but don't know anything about that. It's just a viscous
rumor.
> Anybody out there care to give their impressions or experience with this
> cloned vise...SOMEONE out there has had to bump into one of these in their
> woodworking career.
> ANY feedback would be helpful...someone who has used one, owned one,
> tinkered with one in the store, cursed the day they bought it, etc. There
> are a couple of woodworkers out here intrigued by Emmerts but can't commit
> the cash for originals and are interested in learning more about this
> cloned product and if it is of reasonable quality and tooling to justify
> the purchase. The decision here involves making a commitment to the vise
> and placing it as the crowned jewel in a handmade bench, and at the heart
> of our future woodworking process. We desperately need some feedback.
Oh, yeah, you'll need to commit to the handmade bench once you get an
Emmert or clone. They're different enough from you generic vice, they
aren't going to make a slip in replacement for an existing vice on an
existing bench very easily.
Mine's bolted ungratefully to a slab now, I'm still thinking on a real
bench to put it on.
--
Travis Anton, BoxTop Software, Inc. - http://www.boxtopsoft.com
"BoxTop Software's ProJPEG plug-in consistently produces JPEG files
that are routinely 50% smaller than Photoshop." - Mac Art & Design
All BoxTop Web Graphics tools are now bundled for half price!
Robert Shepherd
Here's some additional info I looked up on the subject of Emmert
Vises. You can find articles/reviews in the following magazines:
Fine Woodworking #96, Sep/Oct 1992, page 122, Tucker Vise - Mark
Duginske thinks the Tucker vise is the very best made.
Woodworker's Journal Vol. 16 No. 3, May/Jun 1992, page 12, Tucker
Vise by Veritas - Review of the best vise on the market.
American Woodworker #22, October 199, page 114, The Tucker Vise - The
Tucker or Emmert Patternmaker's Vise gets a rave review.
Fine Woodworking #113, Jul/Aug 1995, page 78, Patternmaker's Vises
Benjamin Wild says the patternmaker's vises are the most versatile
work holding devices ever bolted to a bench, a history and comparative
review of three vises still on the market.
Shep
On Tue, 01 Feb 2000 16:02:47 GMT, shep...@earthlink.net (Robert
Shepherd) wrote:
>Lee Valley sells the Veritas "Tucker Vise" which is an Emmert clone.
>It's a high quality item beautifully machined parts and quick release
>jaws, and it includes the hardware for a foot control of the quick
>release mechanism. It's pricey, though. About $500.00 as I recall. You
>can check it out at www.leevalley.com. I agree that the Woodcraft
>clone looks like the vise sold by AMT a few years ago.
>
>Shep
>
>On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 07:11:29 GMT, redi...@earthlink.net_xxx (-N.)
>wrote:
>
>>Well...(cough)...
>>...we need you to do the talking because we know nothing about them other
>>than that they exist and are sold by Woodcraft. All we have is a 2" square
>>photo in a catalogue and a paragraph of sales copy.
>>
>>I'm refering to the patternmaking vice Woodcraft sells for $215 and are
>>most likely imports based upon the smaller Emmert vises (not the sweet
>>looking high-end Tucker vise by Veritas or the vises marketed
>>contemporaneous with the original Emmerts by other manufacturers.)
>>
>>Anybody out there care to give their impressions or experience with this
>>cloned vise...SOMEONE out there has had to bump into one of these in their
>>woodworking career.
>>ANY feedback would be helpful...someone who has used one, owned one,
>>tinkered with one in the store, cursed the day they bought it, etc. There
>>are a couple of woodworkers out here intrigued by Emmerts but can't commit
>>the cash for originals and are interested in learning more about this
>>cloned product and if it is of reasonable quality and tooling to justify
>>the purchase. The decision here involves making a commitment to the vise
>>and placing it as the crowned jewel in a handmade bench, and at the heart
>>of our future woodworking process. We desperately need some feedback.
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>-Neal
Robert Shepherd
"Tucker" and "Emmert" vises, so it really isn't correct to call a
Tucker an Emmert clone. I own the Veritas Tucker vise and love it.
Picked it up on close-out at the local Woodcraft Supply store several
years ago. Not a big seller because of price, I guess, so they haven't
had such a vise until they got the Taiwanese version recently.
You're also right about mounting the vise. It requires a bench top
that's 2-1/2" to 2-3/4" thick, and you have to rout or chisel two
sections out, plus drill several precisely placed holes, to get the
fit right. Not a major undertaking, but it does take some time and
effort. Veritas sells accessory mounting plates so you can move the
vise from one location to another pretty easily if you need to.
I also seem to recall that a new company (or individual) had purchased
the tooling and rights to the Emmerts, and was planning to put them on
the market. I think one of the articles listed in my earlier post may
talk about that. That was several years ago, and I have never heard if
the project got off the ground, however.
Shep
On Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:13:45 -0600, Travis Anton
<tra...@boxtopsoft.com> wrote:
>In article
><redirect-300...@dialup-209.246.107.149.newyork2.level3.net>,
>redi...@earthlink.net_xxx (-N.) wrote:
>
>> Well...(cough)...
>> ...we need you to do the talking because we know nothing about them other
>> than that they exist and are sold by Woodcraft. All we have is a 2" square
>> photo in a catalogue and a paragraph of sales copy.
>
>There's an Emmert page on-line somewhere (don't remember the URL, but I
>do remember not too many pages show up on a search on "Emmert" using
>Infoseek, that's how I found it) that has a long spiel on those. Fit and
>finish was quite lacking in comparison to the original.
>
>I only have first hand experience with the original Emmert K1, and can't
>say what you would get from a clone. I wouldn't trade mine for the world
>now, I will say.
>
>Mine took a month of active searching to find and set me back a hefty
>$700 by the time the FedEx from PA was counted.
>
>Granted, this is not for the budget conscious, but it was my birthday
>and I was on a mission to have the mother of all vices.
>
>> I'm refering to the patternmaking vice Woodcraft sells for $215 and are
>> most likely imports based upon the smaller Emmert vises (not the sweet
>> looking high-end Tucker vise by Veritas or the vises marketed
>> contemporaneous with the original Emmerts by other manufacturers.)
>
>The Tucker vise seems to be closely patterned on an Emmert, but by no
>means at all a clone. The function appears the same, but the design is
>actually quite different. The vise is also much smaller than an Emmert
>K1, which is the monster of all vices. It's the size of the smaller K2
>that was sold, or fairly close.
>
>I'm inclined to believe you would probably have a better vice from the
>Tucker vice. Veritas is into fit and finish, and put some though into a
>new design to do the same thing as an Emmert. Woodcraft is marketing a
>cheap Taiwanese clone.
>
>I heard someone say something (someone fill in the blanks here) that a
>different company made a high quality clone of an Emmert that sold for
>around $1000, but don't know anything about that. It's just a viscous
>rumor.
>
>> Anybody out there care to give their impressions or experience with this
>> cloned vise...SOMEONE out there has had to bump into one of these in their
>> woodworking career.
>> ANY feedback would be helpful...someone who has used one, owned one,
>> tinkered with one in the store, cursed the day they bought it, etc. There
>> are a couple of woodworkers out here intrigued by Emmerts but can't commit
>> the cash for originals and are interested in learning more about this
>> cloned product and if it is of reasonable quality and tooling to justify
>> the purchase. The decision here involves making a commitment to the vise
>> and placing it as the crowned jewel in a handmade bench, and at the heart
>> of our future woodworking process. We desperately need some feedback.
>
David Pope
So how much are we talkin' for the Tucker??
--David
John Gunterman wrote:
> In article <3896fe28...@news.supernews.com>,
> shep...@earthlink.net (Robert Shepherd) wrote:
> > Lee Valley sells the Veritas "Tucker Vise" which is an Emmert clone.
>
> I played with one extesnively when I was visiting the Ottawa store last
> summer. While it is ceratinly an Emmert Clone. LVT can't leave anything
> alone, when they re-do it... An lucky for us! Because the quick release
> feature is fantastic.
>
> > It's a high quality item beautifully machined parts and quick release
> > jaws, and it includes the hardware for a foot control of the quick
> > release mechanism. It's pricey, though.
>
> No doubt!
>
> I bought my Emmert for less that the cost of the Tucker, and even
> re-sold it for less that the cost of the Tucker. If you cannot find am
> Emmert, and want "the best" the Lee Valley Tucker is for you.
>
> >I agree that the Woodcraft clone looks like the vise sold by AMT a few
> years ago.
>
John Gunterman
>
> So how much are we talkin' for the Tucker??
http://www.leevalley.com/woodwork/veritas/clamping/tuckvise.htm#top
499.00 US$
-N.
better picture of the Patternmaker clones (still haven't used one). I also
got some feedback from some folks on the old tools list who own the
clones.
The concensus seems to be that the fit and finish of the vise is crude (we
are talking Woodcraft-type Emmert Clone version here, although bear in
mind John brought up an interesting point recently about differences
between the AMT and the Woodcraft versions). Many have complained that
the handle is way too small in diameter...it slops around too much, also
the dogs are very poorly implemented , crudely made, and function poorly.
I've also received several responses about the racking adjustment slipping
in use...but apparantly there are solutions to address this. OTOH everyone
seems to be satisfied with the vise for the price. Better fit and finish
can be had on the Tucker...and those that are used to vises with a quick
release miss it on the Emmert clones [although I understand the original
Emmerts didn't have this feature]...for $300 more you can get it on the
Tucker vise). I followed up the post suggesting The Japan Woodworker as a
source for an Emmert Clone: $189.00, free shipping, and 2% off orders over
$200...they are currently backordered however, and are not expecting a
shipment in for a couple of months.
I haven't made a final vise decision yet, but after all the feedback, I am
leaning more towards the Emmert Clone than any other vise...for the moment
;).
If anyone has a Tucker for sale at a decent price, now's the time...
-N.
<shav...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> And while we are on the subject, yes, I sold my Emmert and replaced it
> with the Woodcraft. Nobody in thier right minds would ever do such a
> thing! SO heat up the tar, and go get a pile of feathers from the
> chicken-coop.
>
> I had the _big_ Emmert (the "RotoTilt" model pictured in the Workbench
> Book)damned thing was a battle ship, weighed in at 87 Lbs! I needed
> quite a substantial bench loaded w/ lots of ballast to support that
> thing.
Hi ya John,
Reminds me of those small speedboats one occasionally sees that have
MASSIVE outboards on em'.
> Most of my work is on a smaller scale so when I get a smaller
> bench I otped for a smaller Emmert type vise, to go with it.
>
> While the Woodcraft does not have the charm and mystique of a real
> Emmert, it does everything an Emmert should do.
> I still wish I bought the Tucker though, it's just so darned expensive.
Why? Have you experienced any of the problems/poor workmanship that others
have mentioned? After having used the Woodcraft vise, is it a tool you
would recommend?
> If you really want to feel you wallet go into convulsions, ust look at
> the Kindt Collin's!!!
Kindt Collin's, what's that a high-end clone? Better yet, don't answer
that. Between the grand design of the authentic Emmerts and the lavishly
machined Tucker, my vise covetousness has risen to unhealthy levels. All
this vise lore, exposure, and research has me saddled down with 'vise
viseons'.
I am trying to contain my excitement so I can go about simple, daily tasks.
Don't make it worse.
John Gunterman
> If anyone has a Tucker for sale at a decent price, now's the time...
The line forms behind _ME_.
I could give you a great deal on a Woodcraft clone.
Still NIB (new in the box)... only $300.-- (plus shipping ;-)
Travis Anton
shep...@earthlink.net (Robert Shepherd) wrote:
> I also seem to recall that a new company (or individual) had purchased
> the tooling and rights to the Emmerts, and was planning to put them on
> the market. I think one of the articles listed in my earlier post may
> talk about that. That was several years ago, and I have never heard if
> the project got off the ground, however.
Just spouting up about patent law here, but it would not be necessary to
purchase rights to make those. Patent is long since expired. They could
have purchased rights to the Emmert name, but since it hasn't been used
in business for some time to my knowledge, trademark rights, like patent
ones, should pretty much be up for grabs. You don't use a trademark, you
loose it. Not as clear cut as the expired patent, though.
John Gunterman
Travis Anton <tra...@boxtopsoft.com> wrote:
> In article <38991e14...@news.supernews.com>,
> shep...@earthlink.net (Robert Shepherd) wrote:
>
> > I also seem to recall that a new company (or individual) had
purchased
> > the tooling and rights to the Emmerts, and was planning to put them
on
> > the market. I think one of the articles listed in my earlier post
may
> > talk about that. That was several years ago, and I have never heard
if
> > the project got off the ground, however.
>
> Just spouting up about patent law here, but it would not be necessary
to
> purchase rights to make those. Patent is long since expired. They
could
> have purchased rights to the Emmert name, but since it hasn't been
used
> in business for some time to my knowledge, trademark rights, like
patent
> ones, should pretty much be up for grabs. You don't use a trademark,
you
> loose it. Not as clear cut as the expired patent, though.
From what I understand, they not only bought the name, but they bought
most of the original tooling as well as master patterns. The
original patterns and the tooling is what's really improtant, IMO.
Okay, so the Emmert nema will help as well......
Larry Jaques
<webm...@shavings.net> presented this prose:
They are one helluva vise, I tell ya. I got to manhandle one at
the show last week. Are they unbreakable? They're sure lightweight
compared to their solid steel counterparts and others.
John, I hope you went out today and voted for Sen. McCain, hopefully
our new President soon. Thank you Gnu Hampsterites!
------------------------------------------------------
I survived the D.C. Blizzard of 2000...from California.
----------------------------
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
--------------------------------------------------