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Sealing edge of particle board

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Jon Danniken

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May 28, 2010, 11:39:07 PM5/28/10
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This isn't really much in the way of a "fine woodworking" question, but I
hope it will be close enough to on topic.

I bought a metal shelving unit that uses particle board to put on top of the
structure. The particle board, of course, is unfinished.

As I will be at least putting a coat of primer on the particle board, I am
looking for a way to seal up the edges.

I have seen references to using a thin mixture of wood glue, and that seems
like a decent way to go. For anyone who has used that, how thin did you
make it? Maybe a 1:2 ratio of water to glue?

Any other methods?

Thanks,

Jon


Lew Hodgett

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May 29, 2010, 12:07:15 AM5/29/10
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"Jon Danniken" wrote:

> This isn't really much in the way of a "fine woodworking" question,
> but I hope it will be close enough to on topic.
>
> I bought a metal shelving unit that uses particle board to put on
> top of the structure. The particle board, of course, is unfinished.
>
> As I will be at least putting a coat of primer on the particle
> board, I am looking for a way to seal up the edges.

-------------------------
These days I'd run some masking tape on the flat surfaces to protect
them and then apply several coats of dewaxed shellac.

Allow a couple of weeks to dry, then apply primer.

Lew

cl...@snyder.on.ca

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May 29, 2010, 12:13:07 AM5/29/10
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When I cut a hole in a particle board countertop to install a sink, I
just seal the edge with a couple coats of Kilz primer, ot thick latex
paint - which ever is readilly available.

Artemus

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May 29, 2010, 12:14:19 AM5/29/10
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"Jon Danniken" <jonSPAMMEN...@yahSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
news:htq28r$ds1$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Latex caulk.
Art


Jon Danniken

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May 29, 2010, 1:01:30 AM5/29/10
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Artemus wrote:
>
> Latex caulk.
> Art

'Ya know, that had actually crossed my mind. I wonder if thinning it
slightly with some latex primer would make it more "brushable" and give it
bit more penetration.

Jon


Puckdropper at dot

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May 29, 2010, 1:49:07 AM5/29/10
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"Jon Danniken" <jonSPAMMEN...@yahSPAMhoo.com> wrote in
news:htq28r$ds1$1...@speranza.aioe.org:

FWIW, I bought a similar shelf several months ago. Upon attempting to
paint the "bare" wood, the paint didn't take like it would on bare wood.
There might be a finish of some sort on the shelves that take care of
your problem (or cause some later.)

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

cavelamb

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May 29, 2010, 2:29:46 AM5/29/10
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Why bother sealing edges?
The whole panel is made that way.
The whole panel will absorb water like a wet sponge.

I do a lot of boat woodwork these days.
Edges do have more pores to work with.
But particle board?

I have eight of those shelf units now.
I sprayed first half with sanding sealer.
They are in a lot better shape than the newer bare ones.

If you use water based glue. what will happen when the shelves get wet?

Paint 'em.
Kilz should work well for what they are..

--

Richard Lamb


Jon Danniken

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May 29, 2010, 8:30:54 AM5/29/10
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Puckdropper wrote:
>
> FWIW, I bought a similar shelf several months ago. Upon attempting to
> paint the "bare" wood, the paint didn't take like it would on bare
> wood. There might be a finish of some sort on the shelves that take
> care of your problem (or cause some later.)

Aye, I did notice that the top/bottom of the shelves were a lot smoother
than I expect from particle board. I think I'll Q-tip a dab of paint on the
end before I leave this morning and see what it looks like later.

Thanks,

Jon


J. Clarke

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May 29, 2010, 8:39:17 AM5/29/10
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The same thing that happens to a house painted with "water based paint"
when it rains? Like, not much?

There's a difference between "waterborne" and "water soluble when cured".

Sure, white glue softens when it gets wet, but Titebond III doesn't.
And next time you use some urea-formaldehyde, toss the cured lump that's
always left over in a jar of water and put it on a shelf and a year
later see if it's softened any.

Bea Essor

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May 29, 2010, 9:17:39 AM5/29/10
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"Jon Danniken" <jonSPAMMEN...@yahSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
news:htq28r$ds1$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

Jon,

Several years ago, I made closet shelves out of 3/4" particle board. To
smooth out the edges I used dry wall compound for a filler. Then I painted
them.
They are still as good as ever. Dry wall compound is cheap dries pretty fast
and is easy to sand.

Bea


notbob

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May 29, 2010, 9:52:38 AM5/29/10
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On 2010-05-29, Jon Danniken <jonSPAMMEN...@yahSPAMhoo.com> wrote:

> As I will be at least putting a coat of primer on the particle board, I am
> looking for a way to seal up the edges.

Near as I can tell, it goes by the generic name of edging or edge
banding. I have no experience with it, but plan to try it if I cut
some vaneered particle board and need to cover the exposed raw edges.

http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/edgebanding-guide.htm

nb

Jon Danniken

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May 29, 2010, 1:43:31 PM5/29/10
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Bea Essor wrote:
> Several years ago, I made closet shelves out of 3/4" particle board.
> To smooth out the edges I used dry wall compound for a filler. Then I
> painted them.
> They are still as good as ever. Dry wall compound is cheap dries
> pretty fast and is easy to sand.

Ingenious idea Bea, thanks. That would also smooth it out really well, and
I still have a big box of the stuff.

Jon


Jon Danniken

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May 29, 2010, 1:45:19 PM5/29/10
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notbob wrote:
>
> Near as I can tell, it goes by the generic name of edging or edge
> banding. I have no experience with it, but plan to try it if I cut
> some vaneered particle board and need to cover the exposed raw edges.
>
> http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/edgebanding-guide.htm

Neat product. I usually glue veneer on the edge of plywood for projects,
but that looks a heckuva lot easier (and quicker) to apply. Thanks!

Jon


Artemus

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May 29, 2010, 5:03:44 PM5/29/10
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"Jon Danniken" <jonSPAMMEN...@yahSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
news:htq73a$hq7$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
I've not had any problems with it sticking and I just run a finger down the
edge pushing it in as I go and cleaning the excess with a paper towel. This
leaves a slight texture and if you want a dead flat edge with crisp corners
then drywall compound put on with a putty knife is a better way to go.
Art


Phisherman

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May 29, 2010, 5:41:30 PM5/29/10
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On Fri, 28 May 2010 20:39:07 -0700, "Jon Danniken"
<jonSPAMMEN...@yahSPAMhoo.com> wrote:

Depends on the application. I have filled edges with joint compound
before sealing with a shellac primer. I guess a shop-made wood filler
will work too, but less water the better--you centainly dont want the
particle board to swell near the edges.

Jon Danniken

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May 29, 2010, 11:06:46 PM5/29/10
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Thanks for all of the suggestions. I went with Bea's (and later, other
posters) suggestion and used a joint compound.

I couldn't find my regular joint compound, so I used "Fixall" by Custom
instead. It had the advantage of allowing me to paint it with latex paint
right after I applied it, so I got the edge fill and painting done at the
same time.

The edges finished up very nice.

Jon

cl...@snyder.on.ca

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May 30, 2010, 12:12:26 AM5/30/10
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The "iron on" stuff sometimes works, but more often comes off before
you want it to. I often use the "pound in" type "T" molding to edge
particle board. Just cut a saw kerf doun the middle and knock the
plastic molding in.

notbob

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May 30, 2010, 12:22:13 AM5/30/10
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On 2010-05-30, cl...@snyder.on.ca <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote:

> particle board. Just cut a saw kerf doun the middle and knock the
> plastic molding in.

Excuse my cluelessness, but how do you saw such a slot (kerf)?

nb

Lobby Dosser

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May 30, 2010, 12:38:23 AM5/30/10
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"notbob" <not...@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:VJlMn.20084$7d5....@newsfe17.iad...


Carefully. Run the edge down across the table saw. Or, run edge in on a
router table with a slot cutting bit mounted. Or, stretch a biscuit jointer
to it's limits by running it along the edge. Or, run a hand held router
along the edge (router base flat on face of board.

I'd use either of the router options. As would sellers of T-Molding.

notbob

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May 30, 2010, 8:41:16 AM5/30/10
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On 2010-05-30, Lobby Dosser <L...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Carefully. Run the edge down across the table saw. Or, run edge in on a
> router table with a slot cutting bit mounted. Or, stretch a biscuit jointer
> to it's limits by running it along the edge. Or, run a hand held router
> along the edge (router base flat on face of board.
>
> I'd use either of the router options. As would sellers of T-Molding.

I kinda suspected the router option, but also have zero router experience.
Probably should learn some router basics and look at a basic router
and bits. Thank you.

nb

cl...@snyder.on.ca

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May 30, 2010, 4:00:23 PM5/30/10
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I do it with a high fence on a table saw, but a friend made a jig that
fits the "shoe " of his skill saw that does the job very nicely.

Lew Hodgett

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Jun 3, 2010, 7:03:33 PM6/3/10
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"Jon Danniken" wrote:

> I bought a metal shelving unit that uses particle board to put on
> top of the structure. The particle board, of course, is unfinished.
>
> As I will be at least putting a coat of primer on the particle
> board, I am looking for a way to seal up the edges.

----------------------------------
Duh!

Time to engage brain.

Easiest way to seal edges would be with epoxy.

Apply with a chip brush.

When cured, sand snooth and apply latex paint.

Lew


Josepi

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Jun 3, 2010, 7:09:34 PM6/3/10
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OMG! Epoxy? LOL

That's a lot of mixing the two parts, expense and the epoxy would be harder
than the chip board!. Nice strong edge but may not sand evenly when the
chipboard wears away with sandpaper, unevenly.

If you're painting just use drywall mud. Works well.


"Lew Hodgett" <sails...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:4c0834c7$0$31670$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
Duh!

Time to engage brain.

Easiest way to seal edges would be with epoxy.

Apply with a chip brush.

When cured, sand snooth and apply latex paint.

Lew

"Jon Danniken" wrote:

> I bought a metal shelving unit that uses particle board to put on
> top of the structure. The particle board, of course, is unfinished.
>
> As I will be at least putting a coat of primer on the particle
> board, I am looking for a way to seal up the edges.
----------------------------------


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

Lew Hodgett

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Jun 5, 2010, 9:20:53 PM6/5/10
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"Josepi" wrote:

> OMG! Epoxy? LOL
>
> That's a lot of mixing the two parts, expense and the epoxy would be
> harder
> than the chip board!. Nice strong edge but may not sand evenly when
> the
> chipboard wears away with sandpaper, unevenly.

---------------------------------------
After mixing and using at least 20,000 Lbs of the stuff, a few more
ounces gets lost in the wash.

You use what is easiest.

Lew


Evodawg

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Jun 6, 2010, 9:33:02 AM6/6/10
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Josepi wrote:

> OMG! Epoxy? LOL
>
> That's a lot of mixing the two parts, expense and the epoxy would be
> harder than the chip board!. Nice strong edge but may not sand evenly when
> the chipboard wears away with sandpaper, unevenly.
>
> If you're painting just use drywall mud. Works well.

Thats what I use and have used it on plywood to. works great.

--
You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK !
Mandriva 2010 using KDE 4.3
Website: www.rentmyhusband.biz

lyns...@gmail.com

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Sep 6, 2016, 3:33:56 AM9/6/16
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My husband and I have carpeted stairs made of paticle board. I'd like to ditch the carpet, scrape out the staples, fill those particle boards and paint the stairs.

I have read everyone's ideas for filling and smoothing a surface. This surface will need to be durable enough to withstand continual foot scraping and weight changes as we run up and down stairs. And the treated surfaces must be sandable.

Which filler would you gentlemen recommend? Any recommended type of paint for such stairs?

knuttle

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Sep 6, 2016, 8:00:53 AM9/6/16
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I think that removing the carpet and trying to seal the particle board
is a bad idea. Stairs are one of the highest traffic areas in the
house, and particle board does not hold up to that type of use. Even
the type used in high quality furniture when finished does not hold up
to heavy use.

The steps would have to be sealed to moisture, and that sealing compound
applied frequently so that moisture does not get into the particle
board. Edges of the particle board will become chipped off, and gouges
will appear in the steps.

If you want to rid the stairs of carpet, I would look at something I saw
at Lowes the other day. It is essentially a wood vernier for stairs
like you have. It is made of oak, but is much thinner than the
traditional wood steps. It is designed with a lip that would cover the
edge of the particle board underneath.

I suspect you will see it a lot in the mid range and lower priced home
upgrades.

Leon

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Sep 6, 2016, 9:36:45 AM9/6/16
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If the holes are relatively large fill with Rock Hard, tiny holes, any
putty. Paint with a quality Deck Paint.

-MIKE-

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Sep 6, 2016, 1:19:50 PM9/6/16
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I would fill them with these. :-)

<http://www.lowes.com/pd/RetroTread-11-5-in-x-42-in-Raw-Unfinished-Red-Oak-Stair-Tread/3191553>


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

DerbyDad03

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Sep 6, 2016, 2:38:10 PM9/6/16
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On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 1:19:50 PM UTC-4, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/6/16 2:33 AM, lyns...@gmail.com wrote:
> > My husband and I have carpeted stairs made of paticle board. I'd like to ditch the carpet, scrape out the staples, fill those particle boards and paint the stairs.
> >
> > I have read everyone's ideas for filling and smoothing a surface. This surface will need to be durable enough to withstand continual foot scraping and weight changes as we run up and down stairs. And the treated surfaces must be sandable.
> >
> > Which filler would you gentlemen recommend? Any recommended type of paint for such stairs?
> >
>
> I would fill them with these. :-)
>
> <http://www.lowes.com/pd/RetroTread-11-5-in-x-42-in-Raw-Unfinished-Red-Oak-Stair-Tread/3191553>
>

Aren't those going to throw off the rise of the top step? Assuming the steps
are all evenly spaced now, isn't the rise from the top step onto the
landing/hallway going to be .625" less than rise of the rest of the steps?

A minor problem going up, but it could be a safety issue coming down.

As my grandfather used to say when explaining the proper way to build steps:
"The feet remember."

knuttle

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Sep 6, 2016, 2:44:36 PM9/6/16
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The URL is what I was referring to in my first post to this thread. I
thought it was one piece.

I don't see 5/8 of an inch causing a large safety problem. Especially
considering the alternative that was being discussed in this thread.

cl...@snyder.on.ca

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Sep 6, 2016, 4:18:40 PM9/6/16
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Nine of those will do a satisfactory job of filling the "open grain"
edge of partical board. I second the hardwood "caps" or thin plywood
and solid wood noses shop made and securelu glued.

cl...@snyder.on.ca

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Sep 6, 2016, 4:20:39 PM9/6/16
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The steps are already non-standard because the carpet has been
removed. Carpet and underpadding is very close to the thickness of the
"treads"

cl...@snyder.on.ca

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Sep 6, 2016, 4:23:12 PM9/6/16
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The "berber" carpet on my basement steps is very close to 1/2 inch
thick, including the underpad - the cut loop on the upstairs steps is
slightly thicker. I'd say it is "pretty much" a none issue.

Ed Pawlowski

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Sep 6, 2016, 4:50:25 PM9/6/16
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No fillers, no paint. I covered a set of stairs with a good laminate.
Fifteen years and no maintenance later it looks as good as the day
installed.

Swingman

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Sep 6, 2016, 4:58:38 PM9/6/16
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On 9/6/2016 1:44 PM, knuttle wrote:

> I don't see 5/8 of an inch causing a large safety problem. Especially
> considering the alternative that was being discussed in this thread.

IME, folk don't take code compliance, with regard to variance in step
heights of stairs, seriously enough ... in particular should aging/elder
residents being involved.

The maximum variance from the first step to the last in most municipal
building codes is 3/8".

So yes, a 5/8" variance from first to last step could indeed be a
problem, particularly in a future sale where a seller's disclosure is
required, or a third party inspection is required.

Anyone contemplating what the OP is contemplating should do some careful
measurements, taking into account the height of the finished floor to
both the first, and the last step, or any intermediate landing, to
insure the maximum 3/8" variance requirement is met.

A failure to disclose/remedy could result in a liability issue for a
owner/seller/lessor, now, or in the future.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

-MIKE-

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Sep 6, 2016, 5:08:59 PM9/6/16
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I don't no and don't care. :-)
I posted it as a response to what I thought was an absurd question.
There is no way on earth the painted particle board won't look like $h!t
no matter how much work they put into it. And if by some miracle from
the Bondo gods they got it smooth and hard enough to look good, the time
and energy could've been spent tearing out the particle board and doing
it right.

Leon

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Sep 6, 2016, 11:31:39 PM9/6/16
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Well at least nine will work. ;~)

But Rock Hard will fill a porous edge just fine.

Leon

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Sep 6, 2016, 11:39:14 PM9/6/16
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On 9/6/2016 2:33 AM, lyns...@gmail.com wrote:
FWIW the OP did not mention what the stairs should look like completed,
just what filler to use and what kind of paint.

Particle board obviously holds up, it has done so up to this point. A
good deck should provide wear protection, like the carped did.

I would not do this as I would like the stairs to look good but who
knows, maybe these stairs go down to an unfinished basement.

DerbyDad03

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Sep 7, 2016, 3:21:04 PM9/7/16
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Do I understand that you would prefer a good-looking unsafe solution over an
ugly yet safe solution?

DerbyDad03

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Sep 7, 2016, 3:24:18 PM9/7/16
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Maybe I missed it, but where does it say that the carpet has been removed?

Leon

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Sep 7, 2016, 3:48:03 PM9/7/16
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DerbyDad03

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Sep 7, 2016, 4:07:44 PM9/7/16
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Sounds to me like a future plan, not a completed task.

They *have* something that they'd *like to* change.

Unless Clare has had other communications with the OP, I'm curious how
he can claim:

cl...@snyder.on.ca

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Sep 7, 2016, 8:19:39 PM9/7/16
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On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 12:24:14 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
You didn't read the initial post? It's quoted right at the top of
your reply - but I will repeat it for you. Quoted from the OP:

"My husband and I have carpeted stairs made of paticle board. I'd
like to ditch the carpet, scrape out the staples, fill those particle
boards and paint the stairs."

Remove the carpet and the step hight is no longer "to code" if it
was before. Replacing the carpet with a stair tread cap brings it back
to spec.

You guys have WAY too much spare time if you have to argue such arcane
points - without reading what you are complaining about even - - - -

cl...@snyder.on.ca

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Sep 7, 2016, 8:29:42 PM9/7/16
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On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 13:07:38 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
OK - to be 100% accurate for all you use-net nazis -

The bare partical board steps will already be non-standard because the
originall design included the thickness of the carpet in the
calculations IF it was initially code compliant.

the applicable code:

R311.7.4.1 Riser height. The maximum riser height shall be 73/4 inches
(196 mm). The riser shall be measured vertically between leading edges
of the adjacent treads. The greatest riser height within any flight of
stairs shall not exceed the smallest by more than 3/8 inch (9.5 mm).

The top step could have been 3/8" taller than the bottom step and
still have been within code - and adding 3/4 inch stair tread caps
(much thicker than we have been talking about) woud STILL be within
code, with the bottom step now being 3/8" higher than the top one.

IF, by the very odd chance, the steps were perfectly spaceda 3/8"
tread cap would still be within code.

I still think someone is being extremely pedantic.

DerbyDad03

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Sep 7, 2016, 8:55:43 PM9/7/16
to
Maybe I missed it again. Please point out where it says the carpet has
already been removed.

>
> Remove the carpet and the step hight is no longer "to code" if it
> was before. Replacing the carpet with a stair tread cap brings it back
> to spec.
>
> You guys have WAY too much spare time if you have to argue such arcane
> points - without reading what you are complaining about even - - - -

I read exactly what it says and didn't assume anything that wasn't written.
They *have* (present tense) carpeted stairs, they would *like to* (a desire
to do something sometime in the future) remove it.

DerbyDad03

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Sep 7, 2016, 8:56:00 PM9/7/16
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And I still think you were incorrect when you said the carpet was removed.

Leon

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Sep 7, 2016, 9:43:34 PM9/7/16