I am crossposting this because the question comes up with some
regularity in several different groups. Indeed, I have been one
to ask the question in the past (and get a useful answer), so I'm
trying to repay the net somewhat. I have no financial interest in
the products mentioned.
Q: How can you glue polyethylene or polyproplyene?
A: PE and PP are hard to glue because they have "low surface energy".
Very crudely, they have little interest in sticking to anything
else, including adhesives. One technique that works is to apply
a chemical "surface activator" then use cyanoacrylate adhesives
("superglues"). Until recently, surface activators were not
marketed for retail, although anyone could buy small quantities
from a Permatex distributor like a bearing or power transmission
industrial supply house, or from similar sources.
Recently, the Locktite brand has started retail marketing of a
product called "Plastix" that is a kit of surface activator and
compatible cyanoacrylate adhesive. The literature for Plastix
indicates it is suitable "even for" PE and PP.
> Recently, the Locktite brand has started retail marketing of a
> product called "Plastix" that is a kit of surface activator and
> compatible cyanoacrylate adhesive. The literature for Plastix
> indicates it is suitable "even for" PE and PP.
Will this work for repairing plastic eye-glass frames?
JK
I guess a decent precursor FAQ would be "How do I identify
what kind of plastic this is?"
Jim
>Q: How can you glue polyethylene or polyproplyene?
We have had pretty good luck with hot-melt glue, of all things -- an
unexpected result. It has even worked with Teflon.
**************************************************************************
Bill Penrose, Sr. Scientist, Transducer Research, Inc., 999 Chicago Avenue,
Naperville, IL 60540. 708-357-0004, fax -1055,
email wpen...@interaccess.com
Purveyors of fine gas sensors and contract R&D
to this and nearby galaxies.
**************************************************************************
Alternatively, join the pieces and run a bit of the solvent along
the region. The solent will flow between the parts and bond them.
Derrick
Hey, c'mon! This is rec.crafts.metalworking!! Why doesn't anybody suggest
the obvious: Weld them together!! I'm somewhat serious about this, since
a couple of weeks ago I scored a Laramie plastic welder at a garage sale.
This was more a purchase of opportunity rather than anything I have a pressing
need for. Anyone here have any pointers to resources for techniques or
filler rods? B^)
As a matter of fact, yes, I do. Call up United States Plastic Corp. at
(419) 228-2242, and ask for their 1995 Plastics catalog. I just obtained
one of these (I was actually looking for 3-way valves, which they have),
and they have a selection of plastic welders, welding rod, and a manual
titled "Making Better Plastic Welds" (64 pages, $5.95). They sent my valve
in less than a week (including shipping time), so they are prompt even with
small orders.
Tim Eisele
Department of Metallurgical and Materials Engineering
Michigan Tech. University
tcei...@mtu.edu
>Hey, c'mon! This is rec.crafts.metalworking!! Why doesn't anybody suggest
>the obvious: Weld them together!! I'm somewhat serious about this, since
>a couple of weeks ago I scored a Laramie plastic welder at a garage sale.
>This was more a purchase of opportunity rather than anything I have a pressing
>need for. Anyone here have any pointers to resources for techniques or
>filler rods? B^)
I used to weld PP washers together for small inert battery cells
about 10 years ago. Bought the welder and rods from 'McMaster-Carr';
I believe they are in Los Angeles-- Yep, found the catalog. Call
(213)692-5911 or (213)695-2449. They carry all sorts of industrial
supplies, sort of like a Sears Catalog Sales for industry! Also
check out 'Grainger's' (soory, no phone..)
--
Regards, Kestas
Kestutis Sliupas x (510) 231-1540 (work voice)
kestas%lith...@solano.community.net x (510) 231-1285 (work FAX) USA CA
: The easiest way to get a good bond betwwen plastics like PE is to use a
: solvent like methylene chloride (albeit harmful to your health--use fume
: hood) to soften and activate the region of bonding contact. What you do
: is apply a small amount of the solvent to both pieces and then join
: them before they dry.
: Alternatively, join the pieces and run a bit of the solvent along
: the region. The solent will flow between the parts and bond them.
:
: Derrick
This will work with some plastics, notably acrylics ans styrenics. It
will not work with PE or PP, both of which are insoluble in all solvents
at room temperature.
Norman Billingham
Sussex University
Brighton
UK
Not so unexpected if the temperature of the glue is high enough to melt PE
or PP (this may be harder). The resulting interface may be intermixed and/or
mechanically anchored.
Tony
---------------------
Antoni S. Gozdz
to...@nyquist.bellcore.com
> In article <1995May6.0...@sequent.com> stu...@sequent.com (Stuart Friedberg) writes:
>
> >Q: How can you glue polyethylene or polyproplyene?
>
> We have had pretty good luck with hot-melt glue, of all things -- an
> unexpected result. It has even worked with Teflon.
I'm sure you can't have been trying to join PE or polyprop. A glue gun
just won't work -- I've tried it. It may _sort of_ work if there is no
stress on the join, but the slightest movement and ... boing!
Bernie
>I'm sure you can't have been trying to join PE or polyprop. A glue gun
>just won't work -- I've tried it. It may _sort of_ work if there is no
>stress on the join, but the slightest movement and ... boing!
Being a destructive guy by nature, I have pulled the colored cups from the
bottoms of 2-liter PE(?) soda bottles. It takes a fair amount of effort, and
"boing" doesn't describe it. The glue appears to be (color, texture,
softness, threads between glue-points) hot melt glue and is very effective.
Maybe your quality control wasn't up to snuff. Maybe a different glue
formula or temperature would account for the difference.
Flint Smith fl...@uclaue.mbi.ucla.edu
I think 2-liter soda bottles are polyethylene terephthalate, not
polyethylene or polypropylene. Evidence:
1. Polyethylene terephthalate is mentioned as being "widely
used" for "beverage bottles" in Materials Handbook. (Did
anyone mention recently how good a book that is?)
2. Recycling logo "PETE" on the bottom of the bottle (would be
"HDPE" or "LDPE" for polyethylene)
3. Whatever the stuff is, it doesn't behave like the PE or PP
I've known. It's harder.
...and nothing else, i.e. this is just a guess.
--
Norman Yarvin yar...@cs.yale.edu
"So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it
enables one to find or make a reason for every thing one has a mind to
do." -- Benjamin Franklin
As for PE gluing, I find Barge cement, a shoemakers contact glue, effective if a large
surface area appropriate for contact gluing is there. It's pretty tenacious on a roughed
plastic surface.
Jon
Jon Gellman Effects
j...@dorsai.org
NYC, NY
>On Mon, 8 May 1995, William R. Penrose wrote:
>> In article <1995May6.0...@sequent.com> stu...@sequent.com (Stuart
>Friedberg) writes:
>>
>> >Q: How can you glue polyethylene or polyproplyene?
>>
>> We have had pretty good luck with hot-melt glue, of all things -- an
>> unexpected result. It has even worked with Teflon.
>I'm sure you can't have been trying to join PE or polyprop. A glue gun
>just won't work -- I've tried it. It may _sort of_ work if there is no
>stress on the join, but the slightest movement and ... boing!
>Bernie
We glued polypro, PE, and Tef tubing to PE surfaces to hold things in place
while shipping a prototype. It was surprisingly hard to pull the tubes off
the glue later -- not exactly a weld, for sure, but better than any other glue
we've tried. By the way, does anyone know the chemical base of hot-melt glue?
Maybe a bit of oil on the surface may have prevented bonding?
Bill
********************************************************
Bill Penrose, Transducer Research, 999 Chicago Avenue,
Naperville, IL 60540. 708-357-0004, fax -1055,
email wpen...@interaccess.com
Purveyors of contract R&D and fine gas
sensors to this and nearby galaxies.
********************************************************
I believe the soda bottles are PET poly(ethylene terephthalate)
rhg
It *does* stick very well, (which in these instances I *don't* want).
So my trick is to put the plastic, glue, and fabric piece in the freezer
for a few minutes...and the glue peels right off the poly.!
I've also had hot glued stuff peel off vinyls like naugahyde, when I didn't
want them to.
...........................................................
Bill Jones, Theatre Arts Department, San Francisco State University
{wsj...@sfsu.edu} (415) 338-1777
"Sometimes it's more important to be human, than to have good taste" Brecht
"Being a good craftsman will in no way prevent you from having Genius"
Renoir
[snip...]
>I think 2-liter soda bottles are polyethylene terephthalate, not
>polyethylene or polypropylene. Evidence:
>
> 1. Polyethylene terephthalate is mentioned as being "widely
> used" for "beverage bottles" in Materials Handbook. (Did
> anyone mention recently how good a book that is?)
>
> 2. Recycling logo "PETE" on the bottom of the bottle (would be
> "HDPE" or "LDPE" for polyethylene)
>
> 3. Whatever the stuff is, it doesn't behave like the PE or PP
> I've known. It's harder.
>
> ...and nothing else, i.e. this is just a guess.
>
4. And in Norway, the plastic beverage bottles are specifically marked
as made from polyethylene terephtalate. I _do_ think we're in sync
with the civilized world here...
Storker Moe
The "o" in my first name is really an "ΓΈ" (an "o" with a slash)
"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak,
they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment"
Matt. 12,36
> In article <wpenrose.3...@interaccess.com>
wpen...@interaccess.com (William R. Penrose) writes:
> >In article <1995May6.0...@sequent.com> stu...@sequent.com
(Stuart Friedberg) writes:
> >
> >>Q: How can you glue polyethylene or polyproplyene?
> >
> >We have had pretty good luck with hot-melt glue, of all things -- an
> >unexpected result. It has even worked with Teflon.
>
> Not so unexpected if the temperature of the glue is high enough to melt PE
> or PP (this may be harder). The resulting interface may be intermixed and/or
> mechanically anchored.
>
> Tony
> ---------------------
> Antoni S. Gozdz
> to...@nyquist.bellcore.com
May,25, 1995 Just found a product called E6000 industrial strength
manufacturer is eclectic products phone for them is 1 800-767-4667 they
are in louisana, stuff is very strong works on everything ande I got it in
a hobby store curious to know your results ap...@primenet.com
> May,25, 1995 Just found a product called E6000 industrial strength
> manufacturer is eclectic products phone for them is 1 800-767-4667 they
> are in louisana, stuff is very strong works on everything ande I got it in
> a hobby store curious to know your results ap...@primenet.com
I believe what you have found is GOOP.
Eclectic Products manufactures (or markets) a silicon-like glue called GOOP.
They market it under many different names:
Automotive Goop
Carpenter's Goop
Plumber's Goop
Goop
Marine Goop
Hobby Goop
Looking at the ingredients shows a slight variation in the evaporative
solvents, but I don't know if the basic GOOP isn't the same in all the
tubes, they said it was when I called them on the phone and asked.
I suspect that E6000 is GOOP also.
I've seen it, but figured it was just another Eclectic marketing plan for GOOP.
If it is, it does not glue Polyethene or Polypropylene.
Although in my experience, it will adhere to them for some length of time.
--
Jim Janecek
Personal Effects inc.
>> We have had pretty good luck with hot-melt glue, of all things -- an
>> unexpected result. It has even worked with Teflon.
>I'm sure you can't have been trying to join PE or polyprop. A glue gun
>just won't work -- I've tried it. It may _sort of_ work if there is no
>stress on the join, but the slightest movement and ... boing!
I've glued PE with Hot-Melt glue often. The trick is to preheat the substrate
with a heat gun as much as you can get away with. The hotter you get it,
the more it will deform, so this will depend on your dimensional tolerances.
If you don't care much about tolerances, heat it until it's clear. You'll
get a servicable bond for many applications, but nothing beats a true
weld.
Edward L. Ruden
There's a book published by the people who do Model Engineer all
about glues and adhesives. In there the author suggests heating
these plastics with a hot-air stripper or a blowlamp until the
surface is slightly softened, then ordinary glue is used to make
the joint. This is on the principle that the surface is
"activated" in some way which allows the glue to key to it.
I emphasise that I'm not a chemist, and I don't have a copy of the
book to hand (I had a library copy).
David Jenkins -- aka -- Lathyrus Computers Ltd
***********************************************************************
* All incorrect spelling and grammar is intentional. Corrections are *
* superfluous and will be ignored. So there. *
I just saw this a couple of days ago at the local Home Depot. I haven't
tried it.
--
Norman Yarvin yar...@cs.yale.edu
> --
> Norman Yarvin yar...@cs.yale.edu
Have you tried simply heating the two materials until they significantly
soften and then shove them together. If they are reasonably molten, both
of them, they may stick together upon cooling.
--
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Jeffrey Helms Phone: (313) 337-1098 (Work) //
// Polymer Science Dept. Fax: (313) 337-5581 //
// Ford Research Laboratory //
// Dearborn, MI 48121-2153 email:jhe...@vangogh.srl.ford.com//
// The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of Ford Motor//
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Stick, yes, but not polymerize.
Frostie
--
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
+ Frostie Sprout, System Engineer, wyoming.com LLC +
+ Fro...@wyoming.com Voice: (307) 856-4220 Fax: (307) 856-9096 +
+ Wyoming's Leading Internet Service Provider +
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The loctite glue for this type of material is called Black Max and a surface activator
is not required unless you need a quick set time you can also use depend or prism
also from loctite but the only recommended glue by locktite is Black Max.
They have been polymerized already. Why would you expect them to polymerize?
Polymerization is the process by which a monomer (usually a liquid) is
transformed into the long chain solid we recognize as plastic. Heat may make
your activated epoxy liquid polymerize. Heat, applied to most plastics, if it
has any effect at all on molecular size, will break down or depolymerize the
material.
rhg
>Norman Yarvin (yar...@cs.yale.edu) wrote:
>> There is a glue put out by the Loctite corporation, which is advertised
>> to be able to glue "any household plastic", specifically including
>> polyethylene and polypropylene. The glue comes in a kit containing a
>> tube of glue and a tiny bottle of "surface activator".
>> I just saw this a couple of days ago at the local Home Depot. I haven't
>> tried it.
>> --
>> Norman Yarvin yar...@cs.yale.edu
>Have you tried simply heating the two materials until they significantly
>soften and then shove them together. If they are reasonably molten, both
>of them, they may stick together upon cooling.
The difficulty with heating these plastics is getting them
sufficiently and evenly heated before joining. Because of this
difficulty, plastic welding with a rod was ususally the preferred
method of joining. Takes a little practice, but one can do a nice job
with it. I've made specialty lab hoods, high-temperature plastic
tanks, and assorted odd-shaped thingamabobs using a plastic welder.
Actually, it's pretty fun -- better than welding metal, IMHO.
Allen
>Allen
It's worth making the point that plastic welding should always be done in a
ventilated area. If you don't have a fume hood, at least use a fan to blow
the fumes away.
************************************************************************
Bill Penrose, Sr. Scientist, Transducer Research, Inc.,
999 Chicago Avenue, Naperville, IL 60540. 708-357-0004, fax -1055,
email wpen...@interaccess.com
"In any field, it is easy to see who the pioneers are -- they are
the ones lying face down with arrows in their backs." (Anon.)
************************************************************************
I think he just said he used a plastic welder. B^) Think of this as
a specialized heat gun. Very specialized. I bought one at a garage sale and
haven't had time to track down info an materials to use it yet. Basically
a small air compressor and a "head" with a heating element that takes
various nozzels, all much smaller than any heat gun has.
There are quite a few ways to weld plastic:
Hotplate welding - insert heated plate between ends to be joined, to heat them,
then withdraw it and push the ends together
Resistive/inductive implant welding (used in the collars for welding sections
of plastic gas pipeline together) - an implant of metal (usually) is heated
by DC or inductively by a coil.
Hot gas welding - equivalent to oxyacetylene for metals, but no flame.
Laser welding can be used for fast joining of sheet.
Friction welding - rotate or rub the ends together to generate heat then
push them together.
Obviously a lot of these methods have to be set up for particular geometries;
they aren't general-purpose.
David.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The modulus of elasticity of any substance is a column of the same substance,
capable of producing a pressure on its base which is to the weight causing a
certain degree of compression as the length of the substance is to the
diminution of its length. - Thomas Young, 1807.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Is there really a plastic welder? A speciallized machine? I would sure
>love one of tose.
Sure, there are several types. The simplest is a soldering iron with stock
and specialized tips. Bryant Assembly Technologies (don't know where) makes
production-type welders. And then there are ultrasonic welders for high
volume production. We have built specialized welders for sealing gas sensors,
as well. Time, temperature and pressure are critical for production.
Practice and patience are critical for hand- or custom work.
************************************************************************
Bill Penrose, Sr. Scientist, Transducer Research, Inc.,
999 Chicago Avenue, Naperville, IL 60540. 708-357-0004, fax -1055,
email wpen...@interaccess.com
Purveyors of fine gas sensors and
contract R&D to this and nearby galaxies.
************************************************************************
Hope this info is helpful.
: Hope this info is helpful.
--
Since you're reporting psi, I assume this is a tensile or shear value.
For shear values in the right construction, I suppose you could see these
high values - do you have any values for peel strength?
Sam Skoog - National Starch & Chemical
Opinions my own, not National Starch's
There is a Gun called a Drader Injecteweld made by a company in Alberta,
Canada. This will weld Polyporplene or Polyethelene but it's pricy, about
$2500 US.
The guy I bought the Laramie welder from said that they were about $500-$600
new. This is about the price I remember seeing for something similar in
ski repair equipment catalogs.
> >Is there really a machine that welds plastic? I would love a plastic
> >welder!
> >
>
> There is a Gun called a Drader Injecteweld made by a company in Alberta,
> Canada. This will weld Polyporplene or Polyethelene but it's pricy, about
> $2500 US.
There are much cheaper heat guns specifically for welding Polypro. They
are hand held and feed the weld rod either manually or automatically. I
think the price is in the $200-500 range. Any wholdsale plastic supply
house can order it for you. The only one I personally know about is A-1
Plastics in Austin, Texas, 512-837-5230, Ray can help you.
--
Terry Herskind, Austin, Texas
A Dollars$ worth of opinion and wisdom for only $.02
Barry Rose