A: How to glue polyethylene or polypropylene

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Stuart Friedberg

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May 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/6/95
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Here's a prospective answer (not question) for the FAQ.

I am crossposting this because the question comes up with some
regularity in several different groups. Indeed, I have been one
to ask the question in the past (and get a useful answer), so I'm
trying to repay the net somewhat. I have no financial interest in
the products mentioned.

Q: How can you glue polyethylene or polyproplyene?

A: PE and PP are hard to glue because they have "low surface energy".
Very crudely, they have little interest in sticking to anything
else, including adhesives. One technique that works is to apply
a chemical "surface activator" then use cyanoacrylate adhesives
("superglues"). Until recently, surface activators were not
marketed for retail, although anyone could buy small quantities
from a Permatex distributor like a bearing or power transmission
industrial supply house, or from similar sources.

Recently, the Locktite brand has started retail marketing of a
product called "Plastix" that is a kit of surface activator and
compatible cyanoacrylate adhesive. The literature for Plastix
indicates it is suitable "even for" PE and PP.

John O. Kopf

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May 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/7/95
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In article <1995May6.0...@sequent.com>
stu...@sequent.com (Stuart Friedberg) writes:

> Recently, the Locktite brand has started retail marketing of a
> product called "Plastix" that is a kit of surface activator and
> compatible cyanoacrylate adhesive. The literature for Plastix
> indicates it is suitable "even for" PE and PP.

Will this work for repairing plastic eye-glass frames?

JK

James Kirkpatrick

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May 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/8/95
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I guess a decent precursor FAQ would be "How do I identify
what kind of plastic this is?"

Jim

William R. Penrose

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May 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/8/95
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In article <1995May6.0...@sequent.com> stu...@sequent.com (Stuart Friedberg) writes:

>Q: How can you glue polyethylene or polyproplyene?

We have had pretty good luck with hot-melt glue, of all things -- an
unexpected result. It has even worked with Teflon.

**************************************************************************
Bill Penrose, Sr. Scientist, Transducer Research, Inc., 999 Chicago Avenue,
Naperville, IL 60540. 708-357-0004, fax -1055,
email wpen...@interaccess.com
Purveyors of fine gas sensors and contract R&D
to this and nearby galaxies.
**************************************************************************

Derrick Sarafinchan

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May 9, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/9/95
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The easiest way to get a good bond betwwen plastics like PE is to use a
solvent like methylene chloride (albeit harmful to your health--use fume
hood) to soften and activate the region of bonding contact. What you do
is apply a small amount of the solvent to both pieces and then join
them before they dry.

Alternatively, join the pieces and run a bit of the solvent along
the region. The solent will flow between the parts and bond them.

Derrick


James Foster x2912

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May 9, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/9/95
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Hey, c'mon! This is rec.crafts.metalworking!! Why doesn't anybody suggest
the obvious: Weld them together!! I'm somewhat serious about this, since
a couple of weeks ago I scored a Laramie plastic welder at a garage sale.
This was more a purchase of opportunity rather than anything I have a pressing
need for. Anyone here have any pointers to resources for techniques or
filler rods? B^)

Timothy C. Eisele

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May 10, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/10/95
to
James Foster x2912 (j...@a2.cim.cdc.com) wrote:
:
: Hey, c'mon! This is rec.crafts.metalworking!! Why doesn't anybody suggest

: the obvious: Weld them together!! I'm somewhat serious about this, since
: a couple of weeks ago I scored a Laramie plastic welder at a garage sale.
: This was more a purchase of opportunity rather than anything I have a pressing
: need for. Anyone here have any pointers to resources for techniques or
: filler rods? B^)


As a matter of fact, yes, I do. Call up United States Plastic Corp. at
(419) 228-2242, and ask for their 1995 Plastics catalog. I just obtained
one of these (I was actually looking for 3-way valves, which they have),
and they have a selection of plastic welders, welding rod, and a manual
titled "Making Better Plastic Welds" (64 pages, $5.95). They sent my valve
in less than a week (including shipping time), so they are prompt even with
small orders.


Tim Eisele
Department of Metallurgical and Materials Engineering
Michigan Tech. University
tcei...@mtu.edu

kes...@community.net

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May 12, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/12/95
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In <D8C02...@cdsmail.cdc.com> j...@a2.cim.cdc.com (James Foster x2912) writes:

>Hey, c'mon! This is rec.crafts.metalworking!! Why doesn't anybody suggest
>the obvious: Weld them together!! I'm somewhat serious about this, since
>a couple of weeks ago I scored a Laramie plastic welder at a garage sale.
>This was more a purchase of opportunity rather than anything I have a pressing
>need for. Anyone here have any pointers to resources for techniques or
>filler rods? B^)

I used to weld PP washers together for small inert battery cells
about 10 years ago. Bought the welder and rods from 'McMaster-Carr';
I believe they are in Los Angeles-- Yep, found the catalog. Call
(213)692-5911 or (213)695-2449. They carry all sorts of industrial
supplies, sort of like a Sears Catalog Sales for industry! Also
check out 'Grainger's' (soory, no phone..)
--
Regards, Kestas

Kestutis Sliupas x (510) 231-1540 (work voice)
kestas%lith...@solano.community.net x (510) 231-1285 (work FAX) USA CA

Norman Billingham

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May 13, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/13/95
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Derrick Sarafinchan (g932...@mcmail2.cis.McMaster.CA) wrote:

: The easiest way to get a good bond betwwen plastics like PE is to use a

: solvent like methylene chloride (albeit harmful to your health--use fume
: hood) to soften and activate the region of bonding contact. What you do
: is apply a small amount of the solvent to both pieces and then join
: them before they dry.

: Alternatively, join the pieces and run a bit of the solvent along
: the region. The solent will flow between the parts and bond them.

:
: Derrick


This will work with some plastics, notably acrylics ans styrenics. It
will not work with PE or PP, both of which are insoluble in all solvents
at room temperature.

Norman Billingham
Sussex University
Brighton
UK


Antoni S. Gozdz 21621

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May 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/15/95
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In article <wpenrose.3...@interaccess.com> wpen...@interaccess.com (William R. Penrose) writes:
>In article <1995May6.0...@sequent.com> stu...@sequent.com (Stuart Friedberg) writes:
>
>>Q: How can you glue polyethylene or polyproplyene?
>
>We have had pretty good luck with hot-melt glue, of all things -- an
>unexpected result. It has even worked with Teflon.

Not so unexpected if the temperature of the glue is high enough to melt PE
or PP (this may be harder). The resulting interface may be intermixed and/or
mechanically anchored.

Tony
---------------------
Antoni S. Gozdz
to...@nyquist.bellcore.com

Bernard Morey

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May 17, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/17/95
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On Mon, 8 May 1995, William R. Penrose wrote:

> In article <1995May6.0...@sequent.com> stu...@sequent.com (Stuart Friedberg) writes:
>
> >Q: How can you glue polyethylene or polyproplyene?
>
> We have had pretty good luck with hot-melt glue, of all things -- an
> unexpected result. It has even worked with Teflon.

I'm sure you can't have been trying to join PE or polyprop. A glue gun
just won't work -- I've tried it. It may _sort of_ work if there is no
stress on the join, but the slightest movement and ... boing!

Bernie

Flint Smith

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May 17, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/17/95
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Bernard Morey <bmo...@melbourne.DIALix.oz.au> wrote:
>On Mon, 8 May 1995, William R. Penrose wrote:
>
>> In article <1995May6.0...@sequent.com> stu...@sequent.com (Stuart Friedberg) writes:
>>
>> >Q: How can you glue polyethylene or polyproplyene?
>>
>> ... hot-melt glue ...

>I'm sure you can't have been trying to join PE or polyprop. A glue gun
>just won't work -- I've tried it. It may _sort of_ work if there is no
>stress on the join, but the slightest movement and ... boing!

Being a destructive guy by nature, I have pulled the colored cups from the
bottoms of 2-liter PE(?) soda bottles. It takes a fair amount of effort, and
"boing" doesn't describe it. The glue appears to be (color, texture,
softness, threads between glue-points) hot melt glue and is very effective.
Maybe your quality control wasn't up to snuff. Maybe a different glue
formula or temperature would account for the difference.

Flint Smith fl...@uclaue.mbi.ucla.edu


Norman Yarvin

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May 17, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/17/95
to
Flint Smith <fl...@uclaue.mbi.ucla.edu> writes:

>Bernard Morey <bmo...@melbourne.DIALix.oz.au> wrote:
>
>>I'm sure you can't have been trying to join PE or polyprop. A glue gun
>>just won't work -- I've tried it. It may _sort of_ work if there is no
>>stress on the join, but the slightest movement and ... boing!
>
>Being a destructive guy by nature, I have pulled the colored cups from the
>bottoms of 2-liter PE(?) soda bottles. It takes a fair amount of effort, and
>"boing" doesn't describe it.

I think 2-liter soda bottles are polyethylene terephthalate, not
polyethylene or polypropylene. Evidence:

1. Polyethylene terephthalate is mentioned as being "widely
used" for "beverage bottles" in Materials Handbook. (Did
anyone mention recently how good a book that is?)

2. Recycling logo "PETE" on the bottom of the bottle (would be
"HDPE" or "LDPE" for polyethylene)

3. Whatever the stuff is, it doesn't behave like the PE or PP
I've known. It's harder.

...and nothing else, i.e. this is just a guess.


--
Norman Yarvin yar...@cs.yale.edu
"So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it
enables one to find or make a reason for every thing one has a mind to
do." -- Benjamin Franklin

Jon Gellman

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May 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/18/95
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Flint Smith <fl...@uclaue.mbi.ucla.edu> wrote:
>Bernard Morey <bmo...@melbourne.DIALix.oz.au> wrote:
>>On Mon, 8 May 1995, William R. Penrose wrote:
>>
>>> In article <1995May6.0...@sequent.com> stu...@sequent.com (Stuart Friedberg) writes:
>>>
>>> >Q: How can you glue polyethylene or polyproplyene?
>>>
>>> ... hot-melt glue ...
>
>>I'm sure you can't have been trying to join PE or polyprop. A glue gun
>>just won't work -- I've tried it. It may _sort of_ work if there is no
>>stress on the join, but the slightest movement and ... boing!
>
>Being a destructive guy by nature, I have pulled the colored cups from the
>bottoms of 2-liter PE(?) soda bottles. It takes a fair amount of effort, and
>"boing" doesn't describe it. The glue appears to be (color, texture,
>softness, threads between glue-points) hot melt glue and is very effective.
>Maybe your quality control wasn't up to snuff. Maybe a different glue
>formula or temperature would account for the difference.
>
>Flint Smith fl...@uclaue.mbi.ucla.edu
>
There's a world of hot glues out there beyond the Bostick hardware store variety.
I use the ones from 3M that go in thier vastly superior guns and come in a dozen
flavors for different applications.

As for PE gluing, I find Barge cement, a shoemakers contact glue, effective if a large
surface area appropriate for contact gluing is there. It's pretty tenacious on a roughed
plastic surface.

Jon

Jon Gellman Effects
j...@dorsai.org
NYC, NY

William R. Penrose

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May 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/18/95
to

>On Mon, 8 May 1995, William R. Penrose wrote:

>> In article <1995May6.0...@sequent.com> stu...@sequent.com (Stuart
>Friedberg) writes:
>>
>> >Q: How can you glue polyethylene or polyproplyene?
>>

>> We have had pretty good luck with hot-melt glue, of all things -- an
>> unexpected result. It has even worked with Teflon.

>I'm sure you can't have been trying to join PE or polyprop. A glue gun

>just won't work -- I've tried it. It may _sort of_ work if there is no
>stress on the join, but the slightest movement and ... boing!

>Bernie

We glued polypro, PE, and Tef tubing to PE surfaces to hold things in place
while shipping a prototype. It was surprisingly hard to pull the tubes off
the glue later -- not exactly a weld, for sure, but better than any other glue
we've tried. By the way, does anyone know the chemical base of hot-melt glue?

Maybe a bit of oil on the surface may have prevented bonding?

Bill

********************************************************
Bill Penrose, Transducer Research, 999 Chicago Avenue,

Naperville, IL 60540. 708-357-0004, fax -1055,
email wpen...@interaccess.com

Purveyors of contract R&D and fine gas
sensors to this and nearby galaxies.
********************************************************


"robert_h._galloway_(sgrd-udr-o)"

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May 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/18/95
to
>>> >Q: How can you glue polyethylene or polyproplyene?
>>>
>>> ... hot-melt glue ...

>
>>I'm sure you can't have been trying to join PE or polyprop. A glue gun
>>just won't work -- I've tried it. It may _sort of_ work if there is no
>>stress on the join, but the slightest movement and ... boing!
>
>Being a destructive guy by nature, I have pulled the colored cups from the
>bottoms of 2-liter PE(?) soda bottles.

I believe the soda bottles are PET poly(ethylene terephthalate)

rhg

Lisa Vawter

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May 19, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/19/95
to
I believe hot melt glue *is* polypropylene. Lisa
vaw...@green.harvard.edu

Bill Jones

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May 19, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/19/95
to
I frequently use polyethylene as a work surface when hot gluing delicate
stuff, or gluing stuff to fabrics like lace or net.

It *does* stick very well, (which in these instances I *don't* want).
So my trick is to put the plastic, glue, and fabric piece in the freezer
for a few minutes...and the glue peels right off the poly.!

I've also had hot glued stuff peel off vinyls like naugahyde, when I didn't
want them to.

...........................................................
Bill Jones, Theatre Arts Department, San Francisco State University
{wsj...@sfsu.edu} (415) 338-1777

"Sometimes it's more important to be human, than to have good taste" Brecht
"Being a good craftsman will in no way prevent you from having Genius"
Renoir

Storker Moe

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May 23, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/23/95
to
In article <3pebfl...@HOBBES.NA.CS.YALE.EDU>,
yar...@cs.yale.edu (Norman Yarvin) wrote:

[snip...]

>I think 2-liter soda bottles are polyethylene terephthalate, not
>polyethylene or polypropylene. Evidence:
>
> 1. Polyethylene terephthalate is mentioned as being "widely
> used" for "beverage bottles" in Materials Handbook. (Did
> anyone mention recently how good a book that is?)
>
> 2. Recycling logo "PETE" on the bottom of the bottle (would be
> "HDPE" or "LDPE" for polyethylene)
>
> 3. Whatever the stuff is, it doesn't behave like the PE or PP
> I've known. It's harder.
>
> ...and nothing else, i.e. this is just a guess.
>

4. And in Norway, the plastic beverage bottles are specifically marked
as made from polyethylene terephtalate. I _do_ think we're in sync
with the civilized world here...


Storker Moe
The "o" in my first name is really an "ø" (an "o" with a slash)

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak,
they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment"
Matt. 12,36

Steve Appel

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May 25, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/25/95
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In article <D8n7G...@walter.bellcore.com>, to...@nyquist.bellcore.com

(Antoni S. Gozdz 21621) wrote:

> In article <wpenrose.3...@interaccess.com>
wpen...@interaccess.com (William R. Penrose) writes:

> >In article <1995May6.0...@sequent.com> stu...@sequent.com
(Stuart Friedberg) writes:
> >

> >>Q: How can you glue polyethylene or polyproplyene?
> >

> >We have had pretty good luck with hot-melt glue, of all things -- an
> >unexpected result. It has even worked with Teflon.
>

> Not so unexpected if the temperature of the glue is high enough to melt PE
> or PP (this may be harder). The resulting interface may be intermixed and/or
> mechanically anchored.
>
> Tony
> ---------------------
> Antoni S. Gozdz
> to...@nyquist.bellcore.com

May,25, 1995 Just found a product called E6000 industrial strength
manufacturer is eclectic products phone for them is 1 800-767-4667 they
are in louisana, stuff is very strong works on everything ande I got it in
a hobby store curious to know your results ap...@primenet.com

Jim Janecek

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May 26, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/26/95
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In article <appel-25059...@ip219.prc.primenet.com>,
ap...@primenet.com (Steve Appel) wrote:


> May,25, 1995 Just found a product called E6000 industrial strength
> manufacturer is eclectic products phone for them is 1 800-767-4667 they
> are in louisana, stuff is very strong works on everything ande I got it in
> a hobby store curious to know your results ap...@primenet.com


I believe what you have found is GOOP.

Eclectic Products manufactures (or markets) a silicon-like glue called GOOP.

They market it under many different names:
Automotive Goop
Carpenter's Goop
Plumber's Goop
Goop
Marine Goop
Hobby Goop

Looking at the ingredients shows a slight variation in the evaporative
solvents, but I don't know if the basic GOOP isn't the same in all the
tubes, they said it was when I called them on the phone and asked.

I suspect that E6000 is GOOP also.

I've seen it, but figured it was just another Eclectic marketing plan for GOOP.

If it is, it does not glue Polyethene or Polypropylene.

Although in my experience, it will adhere to them for some length of time.

--
Jim Janecek
Personal Effects inc.

Edward Ruden

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May 30, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/30/95
to
Bernard Morey <bmo...@melbourne.DIALix.oz.au> writes:

>> We have had pretty good luck with hot-melt glue, of all things -- an
>> unexpected result. It has even worked with Teflon.

>I'm sure you can't have been trying to join PE or polyprop. A glue gun

>just won't work -- I've tried it. It may _sort of_ work if there is no
>stress on the join, but the slightest movement and ... boing!

I've glued PE with Hot-Melt glue often. The trick is to preheat the substrate
with a heat gun as much as you can get away with. The hotter you get it,
the more it will deform, so this will depend on your dimensional tolerances.
If you don't care much about tolerances, heat it until it's clear. You'll
get a servicable bond for many applications, but nothing beats a true
weld.

Edward L. Ruden


David William Jenkins

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May 31, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/31/95
to

In article <3qfvdj$c...@ug1.plk.af.mil>, Edward Ruden (ru...@ug1.plk.af.mil) writes:
>Bernard Morey <bmo...@melbourne.DIALix.oz.au> writes:
>
>>> We have had pretty good luck with hot-melt glue, of all things -- an
>>> unexpected result. It has even worked with Teflon.
>
>>I'm sure you can't have been trying to join PE or polyprop. A glue gun
>>just won't work -- I've tried it. It may _sort of_ work if there is no
>>stress on the join, but the slightest movement and ... boing!
>
>I've glued PE with Hot-Melt glue often. The trick is to preheat the substrate
>with a heat gun as much as you can get away with. The hotter you get it,
>the more it will deform, so this will depend on your dimensional tolerances.
>

There's a book published by the people who do Model Engineer all
about glues and adhesives. In there the author suggests heating
these plastics with a hot-air stripper or a blowlamp until the
surface is slightly softened, then ordinary glue is used to make
the joint. This is on the principle that the surface is
"activated" in some way which allows the glue to key to it.

I emphasise that I'm not a chemist, and I don't have a copy of the
book to hand (I had a library copy).

David Jenkins -- aka -- Lathyrus Computers Ltd
***********************************************************************
* All incorrect spelling and grammar is intentional. Corrections are *
* superfluous and will be ignored. So there. *

Norman Yarvin

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Jun 1, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/1/95
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There is a glue put out by the Loctite corporation, which is advertised
to be able to glue "any household plastic", specifically including
polyethylene and polypropylene. The glue comes in a kit containing a
tube of glue and a tiny bottle of "surface activator".

I just saw this a couple of days ago at the local Home Depot. I haven't
tried it.

--
Norman Yarvin yar...@cs.yale.edu

Jeffrey Helms

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Jun 1, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/1/95
to

> --
> Norman Yarvin yar...@cs.yale.edu
Have you tried simply heating the two materials until they significantly
soften and then shove them together. If they are reasonably molten, both
of them, they may stick together upon cooling.
--
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Jeffrey Helms Phone: (313) 337-1098 (Work) //
// Polymer Science Dept. Fax: (313) 337-5581 //
// Ford Research Laboratory //
// Dearborn, MI 48121-2153 email:jhe...@vangogh.srl.ford.com//
// The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of Ford Motor//
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Frostie Sprout

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Jun 2, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/2/95
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In article <3ql78u$q...@fiesta.srl.ford.com>, jhe...@vangogh.srl.ford.com
says...

>Have you tried simply heating the two materials until they significantly
>soften and then shove them together. If they are reasonably molten,
both
>of them, they may stick together upon cooling.

Stick, yes, but not polymerize.

Frostie

--
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+ Fro...@wyoming.com Voice: (307) 856-4220 Fax: (307) 856-9096 +
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rgm...@limestone.kosone.com

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Jun 2, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/2/95
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In <3qk0ea...@HOBBES.NA.CS.YALE.EDU>, yar...@cs.yale.edu (Norman Yarvin) writes:
>There is a glue put out by the Loctite corporation, which is advertised
>to be able to glue "any household plastic", specifically including
>polyethylene and polypropylene. The glue comes in a kit containing a
>tube of glue and a tiny bottle of "surface activator".
>
>I just saw this a couple of days ago at the local Home Depot. I haven't
>tried it.

The loctite glue for this type of material is called Black Max and a surface activator
is not required unless you need a quick set time you can also use depend or prism
also from loctite but the only recommended glue by locktite is Black Max.


rgm...@limestone.kosone.com

"robert_h._galloway_(sgrd-udr-o)"

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Jun 2, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/2/95
to
>>Have you tried simply heating the two materials until they significantly
>>soften and then shove them together. If they are reasonably molten,
>both
>>of them, they may stick together upon cooling.
>
>Stick, yes, but not polymerize.
>
>Frostie

They have been polymerized already. Why would you expect them to polymerize?
Polymerization is the process by which a monomer (usually a liquid) is
transformed into the long chain solid we recognize as plastic. Heat may make
your activated epoxy liquid polymerize. Heat, applied to most plastics, if it
has any effect at all on molecular size, will break down or depolymerize the
material.

rhg

Allen

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Jun 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/4/95
to
jhe...@vangogh.srl.ford.com (Jeffrey Helms) wrote:

>Norman Yarvin (yar...@cs.yale.edu) wrote:
>> There is a glue put out by the Loctite corporation, which is advertised
>> to be able to glue "any household plastic", specifically including
>> polyethylene and polypropylene. The glue comes in a kit containing a
>> tube of glue and a tiny bottle of "surface activator".

>> I just saw this a couple of days ago at the local Home Depot. I haven't
>> tried it.

>> --
>> Norman Yarvin yar...@cs.yale.edu


>Have you tried simply heating the two materials until they significantly
>soften and then shove them together. If they are reasonably molten, both
>of them, they may stick together upon cooling.

The difficulty with heating these plastics is getting them
sufficiently and evenly heated before joining. Because of this
difficulty, plastic welding with a rod was ususally the preferred
method of joining. Takes a little practice, but one can do a nice job
with it. I've made specialty lab hoods, high-temperature plastic
tanks, and assorted odd-shaped thingamabobs using a plastic welder.
Actually, it's pretty fun -- better than welding metal, IMHO.

Allen


Wayne Beardsley

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Jun 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/4/95
to
In rec.woodworking all...@ix.netcom.com (Allen) said:


>The difficulty with heating these plastics is getting them sufficiently
and
>evenly heated before joining. Because of this difficulty, plastic welding
with
>a rod was ususally the preferred method of joining. Takes a little
practice,
>but one can do a nice job with it. I've made specialty lab hoods,
>high-temperature plastic tanks, and assorted odd-shaped thingamabobs using
a
>plastic welder.

Any advice on technique? Did you use a torch or a heat gun?

William R. Penrose

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Jun 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/5/95
to
In article <3qrgjh$4...@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com> all...@ix.netcom.com (Allen) writes:
>I've made specialty lab hoods, high-temperature plastic
>tanks, and assorted odd-shaped thingamabobs using a plastic welder.
>Actually, it's pretty fun -- better than welding metal, IMHO.

>Allen

It's worth making the point that plastic welding should always be done in a
ventilated area. If you don't have a fume hood, at least use a fan to blow
the fumes away.

************************************************************************
Bill Penrose, Sr. Scientist, Transducer Research, Inc.,

999 Chicago Avenue, Naperville, IL 60540. 708-357-0004, fax -1055,
email wpen...@interaccess.com

"In any field, it is easy to see who the pioneers are -- they are
the ones lying face down with arrows in their backs." (Anon.)
************************************************************************

Susan Burgott

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Jun 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/5/95
to all...@ix.netcom.com
Is there really a machine that welds plastic? I would love a plastic
welder!


Susan Burgott

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Jun 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/5/95
to wpen...@interaccess.com
Is there really a plastic welder? A speciallized machine? I would sure
love one of tose.


James Foster x2912

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Jun 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/5/95
to
In article <3qsn9j$h...@pipe6.nyc.pipeline.com>, way...@nyc.pipeline.com (Wayne Beardsley) writes:
|> In rec.woodworking all...@ix.netcom.com (Allen) said:
|>
|>
|> >The difficulty with heating these plastics is getting them sufficiently
|> and
|> >evenly heated before joining. Because of this difficulty, plastic welding
|> with
|> >a rod was ususally the preferred method of joining. Takes a little
|> practice,
|> >but one can do a nice job with it. I've made specialty lab hoods,
|> >high-temperature plastic tanks, and assorted odd-shaped thingamabobs using
|> a
|> >plastic welder.
|>
|> Any advice on technique? Did you use a torch or a heat gun?

I think he just said he used a plastic welder. B^) Think of this as
a specialized heat gun. Very specialized. I bought one at a garage sale and
haven't had time to track down info an materials to use it yet. Basically
a small air compressor and a "head" with a heating element that takes
various nozzels, all much smaller than any heat gun has.

David Allsopp

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Jun 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/6/95
to
In article <3qvk3k$f...@mars.efn.org>, Susan Burgott <gbur...@efn.org> wrote:
>Is there really a machine that welds plastic? I would love a plastic
>welder!

There are quite a few ways to weld plastic:

Hotplate welding - insert heated plate between ends to be joined, to heat them,
then withdraw it and push the ends together

Resistive/inductive implant welding (used in the collars for welding sections
of plastic gas pipeline together) - an implant of metal (usually) is heated
by DC or inductively by a coil.

Hot gas welding - equivalent to oxyacetylene for metals, but no flame.

Laser welding can be used for fast joining of sheet.

Friction welding - rotate or rub the ends together to generate heat then
push them together.

Obviously a lot of these methods have to be set up for particular geometries;
they aren't general-purpose.

David.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The modulus of elasticity of any substance is a column of the same substance,
capable of producing a pressure on its base which is to the weight causing a
certain degree of compression as the length of the substance is to the
diminution of its length. - Thomas Young, 1807.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

William Kaukler

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Jun 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/6/95
to
One doesn't need a machine. One needs only to melt or soften the
plastic. For some plastics, a common soldering iron can be used.
Another way to look at it: hot melt glue is a nylon-like plastic used to
join non-plastics together but you melt it to use it. It is just the
same when welding PE PP or styrene; you localy melt and bring the pieces
together. Another peice of the same plastic can be added, once molten.
You can purchase 'welding' rods of plastic and tips for soldering irons.

Some also use the term solvent welding, but I am not refering to that
here.

--
William F. Kaukler, PhD., Met. & Mat. Sci. phone 205-544-0693
The University of Alabama in Huntsville
Center for Microgravity and Materials Research; Huntsville, AL 35899
and at NASA, Marshall Space Flight Center, Alabama 35812

William R. Penrose

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Jun 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/6/95
to
In article <3qvk8d$f...@mars.efn.org> Susan Burgott <gbur...@efn.org> writes:

>Is there really a plastic welder? A speciallized machine? I would sure
>love one of tose.

Sure, there are several types. The simplest is a soldering iron with stock
and specialized tips. Bryant Assembly Technologies (don't know where) makes
production-type welders. And then there are ultrasonic welders for high
volume production. We have built specialized welders for sealing gas sensors,
as well. Time, temperature and pressure are critical for production.
Practice and patience are critical for hand- or custom work.

************************************************************************
Bill Penrose, Sr. Scientist, Transducer Research, Inc.,
999 Chicago Avenue, Naperville, IL 60540. 708-357-0004, fax -1055,
email wpen...@interaccess.com

Purveyors of fine gas sensors and
contract R&D to this and nearby galaxies.
************************************************************************


Larry Waksman

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Jun 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/7/95
to
In many recent articles, there has been a lot of discussion about
adhesive methods for plastics. Just a couple of points:
1. Radio Frequency or Ultrasonic welding is effective only with
thermoplastic materials, not thermosets.
2. RF or Ultrasonics require certain bondline geometries.
3. Solvent welding techniques require soluble plastics, again
thermoplastics rather than thermosets.
4. Solvent welding typically requires that both materials be plastic,
not metal or glass.

Relative to bonding polyethylene or polypropylene, this can be achieved
with cyanoacrylate adhesives and an adhesion promoter. Both are
available from Loctite. Prism 401 (low viscosity), or other Prism
Surface Insensitive Adhesives, along with Polyolefin Primer 770 has
been found to give bond strengths of about 500 psi with low density PE
and up to 2000 psi with HDPE.

Hope this info is helpful.

Sam Skoog

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Jun 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/7/95
to
:
: Relative to bonding polyethylene or polypropylene, this can be achieved

: with cyanoacrylate adhesives and an adhesion promoter. Both are
: available from Loctite. Prism 401 (low viscosity), or other Prism
: Surface Insensitive Adhesives, along with Polyolefin Primer 770 has
: been found to give bond strengths of about 500 psi with low density PE
: and up to 2000 psi with HDPE.

: Hope this info is helpful.

--

Since you're reporting psi, I assume this is a tensile or shear value.
For shear values in the right construction, I suppose you could see these
high values - do you have any values for peel strength?

Sam Skoog - National Starch & Chemical
Opinions my own, not National Starch's


Erick Borbons

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Jun 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/8/95
to
In <3qvk3k$f...@mars.efn.org> Susan Burgott <gbur...@efn.org> writes:
>
>Is there really a machine that welds plastic? I would love a plastic
>welder!
>
The one I own is a Kamweld model, basically a hot air welder, used to
weld PVC and Polypropylene. Cost me about $700.00 5 or 6 years ago. I
don't have any more details here at home, but it comes in handy once in
a while. There are also ultrasonic plastic welders available, but they
are pretty expensive, and have limited applications. What types of
plastic do you want to weld? There are all types of solvents and
techniques available.
Erick

Bill Gemmell

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Jun 11, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/11/95
to

>Is there really a machine that welds plastic? I would love a plastic
>welder!
>

There is a Gun called a Drader Injecteweld made by a company in Alberta,
Canada. This will weld Polyporplene or Polyethelene but it's pricy, about
$2500 US.


James Foster x2912

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Jun 12, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/12/95
to

The guy I bought the Laramie welder from said that they were about $500-$600
new. This is about the price I remember seeing for something similar in
ski repair equipment catalogs.

Terry Herskind

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Jun 13, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/13/95
to
In article <ragnaroek1995Ju...@news2.compulink.com>,
bgem...@idirect.com (Bill Gemmell) wrote:

> >Is there really a machine that welds plastic? I would love a plastic
> >welder!
> >
>
> There is a Gun called a Drader Injecteweld made by a company in Alberta,
> Canada. This will weld Polyporplene or Polyethelene but it's pricy, about
> $2500 US.

There are much cheaper heat guns specifically for welding Polypro. They
are hand held and feed the weld rod either manually or automatically. I
think the price is in the $200-500 range. Any wholdsale plastic supply
house can order it for you. The only one I personally know about is A-1
Plastics in Austin, Texas, 512-837-5230, Ray can help you.

--
Terry Herskind, Austin, Texas
A Dollars$ worth of opinion and wisdom for only $.02

Barry Rose

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Jun 14, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/14/95
to
In article <herskind-130...@dialup13.ccsi.com>,

hers...@infinity.ccsi.com (Terry Herskind) wrote:
>In article <ragnaroek1995Ju...@news2.compulink.com>,
>bgem...@idirect.com (Bill Gemmell) wrote:
>
>> >Is there really a machine that welds plastic? I would love a plastic
>> >welder!
>> >
>>
>> There is a Gun called a Drader Injecteweld made by a company in Alberta,
>> Canada. This will weld Polyporplene or Polyethelene but it's pricy, about
>> $2500 US.
>
I can get you various types of heat guns and tables. What width do you need
as these come in different lengths.

Barry Rose

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