Finishing poplar
Dick Durbin
Is there any way to finish poplar so that it looks like anything or
should I just paint it. I built a small table of poplar just to see
if I could do it. It turned out pretty well and I would like to stain
it.
--
Dick Durbin * "Who is out there to inspire us with a
Tallahassee, FL * personal example of virtue and self
* sacrifice in the name of a higher good?"
- CALVIN
Charles Ring
I just finished an eighteen door job(interior) where a gray wash was used
on poplar. The customer and my wife both were very complimentary as to
the look. Of couse any other color stain could be used to apply a wash
and if you don't have a lot of deep green or purple grain the color
should turn out to be fairly uniform. Some poplar has more grain pattern
than other, but the wash will allow it to show through. Experiment on
scrap pieces before trying on your finished piece.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Chuck
--
C.E."Chuck"Ring
Madera Encantada "Enchanted Wood"
e-mail to:Cr...@concentric.net
Chuck Isaacson
My limited experience with poplar has shown it to be difficult to
get even color, blotchy is the best description. Try a test piece!
Others have suggested a pretreatment.
Even blotchy it looks better than paint.
:
:
:
Jim Gansemer
In article <4n81gp$6...@instasrv.admin>
cci...@mtu.edu (Chuck Isaacson) writes:
> My limited experience with poplar has shown it to be difficult to
> get even color, blotchy is the best description. Try a test piece!
> Others have suggested a pretreatment.
> Even blotchy it looks better than paint.
Try a gel type stain to minimize blotchiness.
Heartbreak Kid
ddu...@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (Dick Durbin) wrote:
>Is there any way to finish poplar so that it looks like anything or
>should I just paint it. I built a small table of poplar just to see
>if I could do it. It turned out pretty well and I would like to stain
>it.
Poplar, if white (sapwood) will turn the color of fresh cut cherry
in about an hour in direct sunlight. If green (heartwood), it'll
turn the color of old walnut in about the same time in the sun. I
find it stains best as mahogany though...don't know why, just the
way it works best for me.
HBK
E. Bortmes
D. Durbin asked about staining poplar. If you use "northern" poplar it
stains quite well with analine dyes dissolved in alcohol. If you have
"southern" poplar (who knows what wood) it will be mottled and splochy.
You can minimize this by first soaking the wood with alcohol and then
applying the stain on an almost dry swab. This makes a tremendous
difference in how the stain is absorbed by the wood. Without a
technical explination, just try it. Use a concentrated dye mix to be
able to get the color as fast as possible with a min. amount of liquid
absorption. I have stained 200 linear feet of molding and it looks like
a beautiful black walnut.
Tom Ellis
ddu...@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (Dick Durbin) wrote:
>Is there any way to finish poplar so that it looks like anything or
>should I just paint it. I built a small table of poplar just to see
>if I could do it. It turned out pretty well and I would like to stain
>it.
Poplar is difficult becuase it blotches a lot. It's a shame,
because the unfinished grain can be very attractive. If you need
to stain it, I've found that a wash coat of shellac followed by a
light sanding and then a gel stain works well. The grain will
still be somewhat obscured, but the finish will go on evenly.
--
Tom Ellis Life is a barbie doll beyond my ken
Personal post
Charles Ring
Heartbreak Kid wrote:
>
> ddu...@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (Dick Durbin) wrote:
>
> >Is there any way to finish poplar so that it looks like anything or
> >should I just paint it. I built a small table of poplar just to see
> >if I could do it. It turned out pretty well and I would like to stain
> >it.
>
> in about an hour in direct sunlight. If green (heartwood), it'll
> turn the color of old walnut in about the same time in the sun. I
> find it stains best as mahogany though...don't know why, just the
> way it works best for me.
>
> HBK
HBK:
I have never seen fresh cut Cherry, but I have seen old Walnut. I have
a lot of scrap Poplar cutoffs in front of my shop.
The temperature here has been in the high 90's and it is extremely dry
here. No rain, etc. for some time. I have not seen the color
change you speak of...Do you need relatively high moisture content and/or
high humidity for this change to occur. Don't know what the moisture
content was when the wood was placed outside, but I suspect, no higher
than 8%, if that.
Heartbreak Kid
Steve Knight
>I have never seen fresh cut Cherry, but I have seen old Walnut. I have
>a lot of scrap Poplar cutoffs in front of my shop.
>The temperature here has been in the high 90's and it is extremely dry
>here. No rain, etc. for some time. I have not seen the color
>change you speak of...Do you need relatively high moisture content and/or
>high humidity for this change to occur. Don't know what the moisture
>content was when the wood was placed outside, but I suspect, no higher
I have not seen poplar change that much ether nad it is humid here.
Must be some different kind. I like poplar like it is it has so many
colors .
Douglas S. Caprette
In a previous article, ddu...@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (Dick Durbin) says:
>Is there any way to finish poplar so that it looks like anything or
>should I just paint it. I built a small table of poplar just to see
>if I could do it. It turned out pretty well and I would like to stain
>it.
>
>--
>Dick Durbin * "Who is out there to inspire us with a
>Tallahassee, FL * personal example of virtue and self
> * sacrifice in the name of a higher good?"
> - CALVIN
>
>
>
>
If you don't like the greenish colors in poplar, don't worry, they'll
fade to tan eventually. If you're in a hurry, you can wash it with wood
bleach (oxalic acid). Just brush it on, let it set for few minutes, and
rinse. This will turn the greens to tan.
IMHO, Poplar finished with tung oil is a beautiful wood in its own
right. Since the grain is similar to cherry, you could probably bleach
out the greens and then stain it to look like cherry.
--
--
DS Caprette
"There's a little truth in all jive, and a little jive in all truth."
-- Leonard Q. Barnes
Michael Stephenson
>Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 13:36:10 -0400
>From: Dick Durbin <ddu...@fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us>
>Sender: Woodworking Discussions <WOOD...@VMB.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>
>To: Multiple recipients of list WOODWORK
> <WOOD...@VMB.IPFW.INDIANA.EDU>
>Subject: Finishing poplar
>
>Is there any way to finish poplar so that it looks like anything or
>should I just paint it. I built a small table of poplar just to see
>if I could do it. It turned out pretty well and I would like to stain
>it.
If you want to continue to use this project to keep experimenting I would
suggest trying out a bleaching solution to eliminate the greenish streaks
that poplar has. This will give you a blank canvas for all kinds of
finishing techniques. You can then stain it or play around with faux
graining techinques. You can probably get it to look like anything from
birdseye or tiger stripe maple to mahogany or even ebony. After you are
done experimenting with various finishing techniques you will either have a
masterpiece or a table that still needs to be painted.
Dana Dawes
In article <4n7rua$q...@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>,
ddu...@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu says...
>
>Is there any way to finish poplar so that it looks like anything or
>should I just paint it. I built a small table of poplar just to see
>if I could do it. It turned out pretty well and I would like to stain
>it.
>
>Dick Durbin * "Who is out there to inspire us with a
>Tallahassee, FL * personal example of virtue and self
> * sacrifice in the name of a higher good?"
> - CALVIN
>
>
>
My firm just did the finishing in a new house with poplar trim. Never
again. Our best (?) results came from using a "spit coat" of shellac
(0.5 pound cut) BEFORE we applied the stain. We sanded the shellacked
trim with 280 grit before we stained (Minwax "Cherry). After the stain
was dry, we finished with 3 coats of Minwax semi-gloss poly.
Dana Dawes
Paintcraft
dda...@moscow.com
LEE WARD
There is a Heckuva lot you can do to Spruce up that table! You can Stain
it,Dye it, Paint it with a Graining comb,,Paint it dark and put a Light
color over that to show a contrasting crackle finish! Or put Lite color
first and Dark over that! Antique finishes are nice,OR how bout the 150
yr old Distressed look? How bout a Patchwork Quilt paint job with
hundreds of multi-colored Patches? Checkout your library for books on
"Furniture Painting" and youll see what i mean..
Lee Ward
-> Is there any way to finish poplar so that it looks like anything or
-> should I just paint it. I built a small table of poplar just to see
-> if I could do it. It turned out pretty well and I would like to
-> stain it.
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20 Gig's : 21 CDROM's : RIME/FIDO/I-net/Intelec
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nugatory
Douglas S. Caprette (au...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu) wrote:
:
: If you don't like the greenish colors in poplar, don't worry, they'll
: fade to tan eventually. If you're in a hurry, you can wash it with wood
: bleach (oxalic acid). Just brush it on, let it set for few minutes, and
: rinse. This will turn the greens to tan.
:
: IMHO, Poplar finished with tung oil is a beautiful wood in its own
: right. Since the grain is similar to cherry, you could probably bleach
: out the greens and then stain it to look like cherry.
It's even easier than bleaching it. Just leave the stuff in bright
sunlight for a few hours - poplar is amazingly photosensitive, and the
greens go to cafe au lait tan very quickly.
There is some confusion about what "poplar" is. The poplar that's used as
a cabinet wood is liriodendron tulipifera, aka tuliptree (but not the
same thing as the exotic by that name, which is a Dalbergia), tulip
poplar, yellow poplar. It's the hardwood most often used for non-face
plys of hardwood plywood, at least in the South. It's light, strong for
its weight, cheap, widely used as secondary wood but quite attractive
as a primary wood if treated with respect. It's often used for pieces to
be painted because it paints up so well.
True poplar, the genus Populus, is something altogether different. It's
soft, weak, the stuff used for matchsticks.
Douglas S. Caprette
In a previous article, ddu...@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (Dick Durbin) says:
>Is there any way to finish poplar so that it looks like anything or
>should I just paint it. I built a small table of poplar just to see
>if I could do it. It turned out pretty well and I would like to stain
>it.
>
>--
>Dick Durbin * "Who is out there to inspire us with a
>Tallahassee, FL * personal example of virtue and self
> * sacrifice in the name of a higher good?"
> - CALVIN
>
>
>
>
If you don't like the green hues in poplar, don't worry, they'll fade to
tan over time. If you're in a hurry, a wash of oxalic acid solution
(wood bleach) will turn the greens tan right away.
IMHO, Poplar finished with tung oil or a tung oil varnish is beautiful
wood, comporable to maple. Or, you could stain it like cherry, though
some poplar tends to be blotchy. A while back someone posted here that
he used red mahogany stain directly on poplar, right over the greens,
and it came out walnut-colored.
I'd opt for the natural look, bleached, or faux cherry myself though
I've only done the first two.
Douglas S. Caprette
In a previous article, nuga...@nando.net (nugatory) says:
>:
>
>...
>There is some confusion about what "poplar" is. The poplar that's used as
>a cabinet wood is liriodendron tulipifera, aka tuliptree (but not the
>same thing as the exotic by that name, which is a Dalbergia), tulip
>poplar, yellow poplar. It's the hardwood most often used for non-face
>plys of hardwood plywood, at least in the South. It's light, strong for
>its weight, cheap, widely used as secondary wood but quite attractive
>as a primary wood if treated with respect. It's often used for pieces to
>be painted because it paints up so well.
>
>True poplar, the genus Populus, is something altogether different. It's
>soft, weak, the stuff used for matchsticks.
>
Just to add two cents here, the tuliptree (sometimes called tulip
poplar) is more closely related to the magnolia than to true poplars.
I wonder what magnolia wood is like?
mf...@wizvax.net
In article <4ng6md$j...@madeline.INS.CWRU.Edu> au...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Douglas S. Caprette) writes:
>Path: news.wizvax.net!usenet.logical.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!sgigate.sgi.com!esiee.fr!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!au455
>Just to add two cents here, the tuliptree (sometimes called tulip
>poplar) is more closely related to the magnolia than to true poplars.
>I wonder what magnolia wood is like?
And I wonder where I can buy some. It is also probably the closest thing we
have here to Ho wood, or japanese magnolia. Anyone have a phone number of a
mill down south that will ship?
mf...@wizvax.net
>It's even easier than bleaching it. Just leave the stuff in bright
>sunlight for a few hours - poplar is amazingly photosensitive, and the
>greens go to cafe au lait tan very quickly.
I learned this the hard way. I was working outside, doing the final sanding of
a hall table I made out of tulip poplar. I went inside to eat lunch, and threw
my dust mask on the top of the table. When I came back to it a few hours
later, I had a nice neat greenish circle where the sun didn't hit. The only
problem with the sun technique is that it's only skin deep. Sand it again, and
you're back to green.
Donald Weisman
In article <1996051520...@mail-e2b-service.gnn.com>, Michael
Stephenson <MSTEP...@GNN.COM> wrote:
>>Subject: Finishing poplar
>>
>>Is there any way to finish poplar so that it looks like anything or
>>should I just paint it. I built a small table of poplar just to see
>>if I could do it. It turned out pretty well and I would like to stain
>>
Michael,
Yellow Poplar has areas which contain Green, Yellow and Black. It was and
is widely used in the Furniture industry. Many pieces for example, had a
Mahogany veneered top and drawer faces, while the balance of the piece was
Poplar or Red Gum.
The reason this was done was because the top wood (Mahogany), was more
expensive than Poplar or Red Gum. Since both species do not exhibit an
outstanding grain or pore pattern, they could be easily stained the same
color as the more expensive wood.
I have never come across a situation where the various colors did not
dissappear (blend in) during the finishing process-with the exception of
the Black. However, the Black was not offensive-and instead offered some
good color variation to the piece.
--
Don Weisman
Abacus Furniture Repair
This Q&A has been sent to http://www.aye.net/~hbk and
http://www.cnl.com.au/~hbk for inclusion in what will soon be
the worlds's most comprehensive FAQ on every known woodworking topic.
Dana Dawes
In article <4nf9p5$4...@castle.nando.net>, nuga...@nando.net says...
>
>There is some confusion about what "poplar" is. The poplar that's used as
>a cabinet wood is liriodendron tulipifera, aka tuliptree (but not the
>same thing as the exotic by that name, which is a Dalbergia), tulip
>poplar, yellow poplar.
<snip>
>True poplar, the genus Populus, is something altogether different. It's
>soft, weak, the stuff used for matchsticks.
>
And, unfortunately, interior trim, at least around here. They sell it as
aspen, but your description is right on if you add "incredibly blotchy when
stained"
Dana Dawes
Paintcraft
dda...@moscow.com
Douglas S. Caprette
In a previous article, CR...@mail.concentric.net (Charles Ring) says:
>Heartbreak Kid wrote:
>>
>> ddu...@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (Dick Durbin) wrote:
>>
>> >Is there any way to finish poplar so that it looks like anything or
>> >should I just paint it. I built a small table of poplar just to see
>> >if I could do it. It turned out pretty well and I would like to stain
>> >it.
>>
>> Poplar, if white (sapwood) will turn the color of fresh cut cherry
>> in about an hour in direct sunlight. If green (heartwood), it'll
>> turn the color of old walnut in about the same time in the sun. I
>> find it stains best as mahogany though...don't know why, just the
>> way it works best for me.
>>
>> HBK
>
>HBK:
>I have never seen fresh cut Cherry, but I have seen old Walnut. I have
>a lot of scrap Poplar cutoffs in front of my shop.
>The temperature here has been in the high 90's and it is extremely dry
>here. No rain, etc. for some time. I have not seen the color
>change you speak of...Do you need relatively high moisture content and/or
>high humidity for this change to occur. Don't know what the moisture
>content was when the wood was placed outside, but I suspect, no higher
>than 8%, if that.
>C.E."Chuck"Ring
>Madera Encantada "Enchanted Wood"
>e-mail to:Cr...@concentric.net
>
In discussing walnut with HBK he indicated that he sees a lot more
variation in color (even from the same tree) than I do. I think hte
walnut in his neck of the woods might be a bit peculiar...
I've also heard that northern poplar and southern poplar have different
characteristics.
Heartbreak Kid
au...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Douglas S. Caprette) wrote:
>>
>>HBK:
>>I have never seen fresh cut Cherry, but I have seen old Walnut. I have
>>a lot of scrap Poplar cutoffs in front of my shop.
>>The temperature here has been in the high 90's and it is extremely dry
>>here. No rain, etc. for some time. I have not seen the color
>>change you speak of...Do you need relatively high moisture content and/or
>>high humidity for this change to occur. Don't know what the moisture
>>content was when the wood was placed outside, but I suspect, no higher
>>than 8%, if that.
>>C.E."Chuck"Ring
>>Madera Encantada "Enchanted Wood"
>>e-mail to:Cr...@concentric.net
>>
>In discussing walnut with HBK he indicated that he sees a lot more
>variation in color (even from the same tree) than I do. I think hte
>walnut in his neck of the woods might be a bit peculiar...
>I've also heard that northern poplar and southern poplar have different
>characteristics.
>--
>--
>DS Caprette
>"There's a little truth in all jive, and a little jive in all truth."
> -- Leonard Q. Barnes
DS, you're right on both subjects. Around here (the Ohio River
Valley) we get southern Poplar which is tulip poplar (never did bother
with scientific names as the only Latins I know speak Spanish). It's
usually close to 75% or more white sapwood and has miminal green
heartwood...but is has more than it's fair share of black mineral
streak thruout. That sun changes color trick I wrote about, BTW, came
originally from Fine Woodworking or Custom Woodworking magazine: it's
not a local phenomenon.
Walnut is extremely common here...not cheap from the commercial mills
where it's steamed to make the color more uniform but a lot cheaper
than Oak when purchased from small time operators who are usually
farmers for a living and kiln operators or lumber dealers as a
sideline. Naturally dried (sans steam) walnut is much lighter in
color and it's not unusual to have 4-5 distinctly different colors in
a "log run" (all the boards in a bundle coming from the same tree).
It's REALLY common split as firewood as the "going rate" to take down
an 18-20" walnut tree is $225.00 and there's only about 140-150 usable
board feet of stock in it and that's usually sapwood if the tree (like
most here) grew from the roots of an older one that was cut down long
ago. Firewood guys will fell it for nothing...to split it and sell it
for $45.00-$60.00 a cord, delivered and stacked. Green and split,
some of it has all the colors of the rainbow in it, usually close to
the center of the log...blues, reds, purples, etc. That all fades
after a week or two in the sun though.
I just planed 500BF of 10" long FAS walnut that was kiln dried but not
steamed. I "cherry picked" about 1/3 of it as true black walnut
color. Another 1/3 was no darker than a light beech or cherry tan.
The other 1/3 was a mixture of stark white sapwood and no darker than
construction grade pine yellow heartwood. Regardless of color: if
the Good Lord made a wood any finer to work, He kept it for Himself.
Damned shame I've yet to make an item out of it that I could sell for
what it's worth....just no demand for it in these parts.
HBK
Douglas S. Caprette
In a previous article, h...@aye.net (Heartbreak Kid) says:
>au...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Douglas S. Caprette) wrote:
>
>
>>>
>
>>In discussing walnut with HBK he indicated that he sees a lot more
>>variation in color (even from the same tree) than I do. I think hte
>>walnut in his neck of the woods might be a bit peculiar...
>
>>I've also heard that northern poplar and southern poplar have different
>>characteristics.
>
>
>
>DS, you're right on both subjects. Around here (the Ohio River
>Valley) we get southern Poplar which is tulip poplar (never did bother
>with scientific names as the only Latins I know speak Spanish). It's
>usually close to 75% or more white sapwood and has miminal green
>heartwood...but is has more than it's fair share of black mineral
>streak thruout. That sun changes color trick I wrote about, BTW, came
>originally from Fine Woodworking or Custom Woodworking magazine: it's
>not a local phenomenon.
I grew up in NE Ohio, and the poplar there was from the tulip tree too.
I expect it all comes from the tulip tree (not really a
poplar--tulipstrees are more closely related to magnolias than to true
poplars) but probably there is regional variation re: NOrthern and
Southern US.
>
>Walnut is extremely common here...not cheap from the commercial mills
>where it's steamed to make the color more uniform but a lot cheaper
>than Oak when purchased from small time operators who are usually
>farmers for a living and kiln operators or lumber dealers as a
>sideline. Naturally dried (sans steam) walnut is much lighter in
>color and it's not unusual to have 4-5 distinctly different colors in
>a "log run" (all the boards in a bundle coming from the same tree).
>It's REALLY common split as firewood as the "going rate" to take down
>an 18-20" walnut tree is $225.00 and there's only about 140-150 usable
>board feet of stock in it and that's usually sapwood if the tree (like
>most here) grew from the roots of an older one that was cut down long
>ago.
>
>...
>color. Another 1/3 was no darker than a light beech or cherry tan.
>The other 1/3 was a mixture of stark white sapwood and no darker than
>construction grade pine yellow heartwood. Regardless of color: if
>the Good Lord made a wood any finer to work, He kept it for Himself.
>Damned shame I've yet to make an item out of it that I could sell for
>what it's worth....just no demand for it in these parts.
>
I was just talking wiht my Dad about walnut this past weekaend. On my
wedding day in August 1994 they had a record flood and erosion felled
40 trees along the creek--some black walnuts, others sycamore. Two of
the sycamore were over 100 feet tall and about three feet in diameter.
Anyway, he told me that the black walnut harvested from Western PA and
NE Ohio was considered to be particually high quality. Since all of the
balck walnut I had ever seen in log form was in NE Ohio, and it all had
very little sapwood (usually no more than 2" just under the bark) and
was typicall very chochlatey when air dried I guess were talking
regional variation here too. My dad has some he cut into firewood, the
pieces are only about 8" in diameter and you can hardly find _any_
sapwood in them. He couldn't get a sawyer to come in andsalvage any of
the trees--access was too difficult down in the creek bed. Maybe I'll
get him one of those Alaskan chainsaw lumber mills for Father's day--
enlightened self-interest at work here. (Hmm, maybe by now the sycamore
will be spalted...)
Tulip trees grow fast and I think a lot them that are lumbered are big
enough to get 1 x 12 s that are _all_ sapwood, at least from what I've
seen in the Home Centers around here (DC and Baltimore). So I wonder if
that fellow out in Arizona didn't notice any walnutty colored heartwood
in his poplar because he ddn't hav eany heartwood. The heartwood is
usually several shades of olive, though sometimes it is a neat deep
purple.