Ping Leon: Monocoat Application Pad?

[DerbyDad03]

What pad did you use for applying your Monocoat?

I just had a long conversation with a guy from Special Hardwood Products
and there's a bunch of confusion around pad types and colors.

The 3M 4100 White that they recommend are the large floor pads that go
under a buffer. The 3M White 7445 that paint stores sell are apparently
not the same thing, at least not according to 3M customer service.

Monocoat-USA recommends their red pad, which is apparently
equivalent to 3M 5100, another floor buffer pad, but they sell them
in a 4" x 6" size.

What pad did you use? I've got about 50 pieces of cedar 2 x 4's that need
to be finished on all 4 sides, so brushing is not an option. I really want to
start applying - wiping on - the oil this weekend and would like to use
something that I can get locally. At the price I paid, I don't want to waste
a bunch by having it all soaked up in a rag.

Thanks!

[Leon]

On 8/5/2022 8:37 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> What pad did you use for applying your Monocoat?

Specifically, Boardwalk Lite Duty Souring Pads form Amazon. They are White.

>
> I just had a long conversation with a guy from Special Hardwood Products
> and there's a bunch of confusion around pad types and colors.
>
> The 3M 4100 White that they recommend are the large floor pads that go
> under a buffer. The 3M White 7445 that paint stores sell are apparently
> not the same thing, at least not according to 3M customer service.

I think most any same color pad is going to be very close to having the
same abrasion. The 4100 pads likely have reinforcement built in since
they are going to see much more abuse AND they are much Thicker! When
some Rubio samples were being sent with samples they included a 1/4"
thick white pad and it was a small pad IIRC, 2"x3"?

I think these type pads are used because they do not soak up much of the
product. In many cases the product is applied, by pouring, and then
buffed/spread into the surface with the white pad. On small projects I
dipped a small corner of the pad into the product, separate container,
let it drip a bit and then applied to the wood via the pad.

If I were you I would try dipping a popdicle stick into the product and
drizzleing the Rubio on to the surface just to get an idea of how far
this product will go. Then rub in with the white pad. Pouring on may
work better once you get an idea of how much you need. I have also
seen the product applied from a syringe and a plastic squeegee, for
spreading Bondo, used to spread the product and followed with the white
pad to even out the layer/thickness. Basically just cover the whole
surface. Any more than that and you end up wasting the excess. The
indoor product soaks in quickly and what ever does not soak in
immediately stays on top and you even this out with the white pad.
Better to go on thin than too thick and waste the product. Once it hits
the surface it pretty much has done all of the soaking in that is going
to happen. IIRC a follow up rub with a clean white pad is used to
smooth out any excess 15 minutes after application.

>
> Monocoat-USA recommends their red pad, which is apparently
> equivalent to 3M 5100, another floor buffer pad, but they sell them
> in a 4" x 6" size.
>
> What pad did you use? I've got about 50 pieces of cedar 2 x 4's that need
> to be finished on all 4 sides, so brushing is not an option. I really want to
> start applying - wiping on - the oil this weekend and would like to use
> something that I can get locally. At the price I paid, I don't want to waste
> a bunch by having it all soaked up in a rag.
>
> Thanks!

I used these,

https://www.amazon.com/Boardwalk-Light-Scour-White-Carton/dp/B00BT2IRM6/ref=sr_1_3?crid=YHA42YJS34J4&keywords=boardwalk+scouring+pads&qid=1659712607&sprefix=board+walk+scouring+%2Caps%2C84&sr=8-3

I have used 1/2 of 1 pad for my 14 box project.

Don't over think it, this product is very easy to use as long as you
don't over apply. Error on the side of under applying and add more if
you need more. You need more if the surface is not covered. DOH
There are no lap marks. This is almost like wetting a paper towel.
It does not need to be re-soaked and a little water goes a loooooong way.


OH! Wear gloves, this stuff is as slick as gorilla snot.

[DerbyDad03]

On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 11:24:51 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 8/5/2022 8:37 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > What pad did you use for applying your Monocoat?
> Specifically, Boardwalk Lite Duty Souring Pads form Amazon. They are White.
> >
> > I just had a long conversation with a guy from Special Hardwood Products
> > and there's a bunch of confusion around pad types and colors.
> >
> > The 3M 4100 White that they recommend are the large floor pads that go
> > under a buffer. The 3M White 7445 that paint stores sell are apparently
> > not the same thing, at least not according to 3M customer service.
> I think most any same color pad is going to be very close to having the
> same abrasion. The 4100 pads likely have reinforcement built in since
> they are going to see much more abuse AND they are much Thicker! When
> some Rubio samples were being sent with samples they included a 1/4"
> thick white pad and it was a small pad IIRC, 2"x3"?
>
> I think these type pads are used because they do not soak up much of the
> product. In many cases the product is applied, by pouring, and then
> buffed/spread into the surface with the white pad. On small projects I
> dipped a small corner of the pad into the product, separate container,
> let it drip a bit and then applied to the wood via the pad.
>
> If I were you I would try dipping a popdicle stick into the product and
> drizzleing the Rubio on to the surface just to get an idea of how far
> this product will go. Then rub in with the white pad. Pouring on may
> work better once you get an idea of how much you need.

I have tried the samples so I have an idea of how far it covers. I started
with a rag but it soaked up more product than it put down. It put down
enough but, as you know, you don't want to waste this stuff. When I
switched to a brush it was much easier to control, but "painted a bunch
of 2 foot 2 x 4, on all four sides would be a pain.

> I have also
> seen the product applied from a syringe and a plastic squeegee, for
> spreading Bondo, used to spread the product and followed with the white
> pad to even out the layer/thickness. Basically just cover the whole
> surface. Any more than that and you end up wasting the excess. The
> indoor product soaks in quickly and what ever does not soak in
> immediately stays on top and you even this out with the white pad.
> Better to go on thin than too thick and waste the product. Once it hits
> the surface it pretty much has done all of the soaking in that is going
> to happen. IIRC a follow up rub with a clean white pad is used to
> smooth out any excess 15 minutes after application.

15 is what most of the videos show, but the guy from SHP said 5.
You echo what he said: once it's on, it's in. He also said, "You can
never wipe off too much, but you can leave too much behind."

> >
> > Monocoat-USA recommends their red pad, which is apparently
> > equivalent to 3M 5100, another floor buffer pad, but they sell them
> > in a 4" x 6" size.
> >
> > What pad did you use? I've got about 50 pieces of cedar 2 x 4's that need
> > to be finished on all 4 sides, so brushing is not an option. I really want to
> > start applying - wiping on - the oil this weekend and would like to use
> > something that I can get locally. At the price I paid, I don't want to waste
> > a bunch by having it all soaked up in a rag.
> >
> > Thanks!
> I used these,
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Boardwalk-Light-Scour-White-Carton/dp/B00BT2IRM6/ref=sr_1_3?crid=YHA42YJS34J4&keywords=boardwalk+scouring+pads&qid=1659712607&sprefix=board+walk+scouring+%2Caps%2C84&sr=8-3
>
> I have used 1/2 of 1 pad for my 14 box project.
>
> Don't over think it, this product is very easy to use as long as you
> don't over apply. Error on the side of under applying and add more if
> you need more. You need more if the surface is not covered. DOH
> There are no lap marks. This is almost like wetting a paper towel.
> It does not need to be re-soaked and a little water goes a loooooong way.
>
>
> OH! Wear gloves, this stuff is as slick as gorilla snot.

Always.

A lot of the sectional pieces will never see the light of day, because
of the cushions or because they will be face down. e.g. the base of
seating area. I plan to start with those pieces, not only as "practice"
but also so that I can put them together and get them out of the way
while I work on the arm rests.

[DerbyDad03]

On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 11:24:51 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:

I used the 3M 7445 white pad. Seems to have worked just fine. Of course,
that's all I've tried. I may try the Boardwalk pads at some point to compare,
but I'm going keep going with the 7445.

I finished 37 pieces, about 125' of 2 x 4's, and 1 x 4's all 4 sides. 60-ish BF.
I've got another 20 pieces or so to go.

Here's a couple of examples, raw vs Monocoat Hybrid Wood Protector.
2 parts Pure, 1 part Royal. Pure has no UV protection, only the pigmented
products do. I was told that 1/3 pigment would provide enough "sunscreen".

https://i.imgur.com/eB2Nxko.jpg

The hardest part was keeping track of the timing of the finishing steps.

Monocoat's instructions are to wipe on a layer of oil with a pad, wait 10
minutes, wipe it down with the same pad without adding more oil, wait
5 minutes then wipe off any remaining oil with a clean cloth.

That's fine when you're doing a deck or a table, but when you're doing 50+
individual boards between 2' and 4', one after the other, the 10 minutes and 5
minutes begin to overlap and things get interesting. I used Alexa timers
but I soon discovered that once I had 6 boards in the cycle, I had to slow
down and catch up.

So far, I like the product. It goes on easy and it basically tells you when to
stop. Once you've got enough oil on the board, it just won't accept any more.
It just lays on the surface. After the 10 minutes, I used a slightly dryer pad
to wipe off any excess/even it out. 5 minutes later, the clean rag removed
whatever the board didn't want. A few hours later, it's dry enough to handle
gently.

I hope to get the rest of the boards finished tomorrow so I can start assembly
on Sunday. Summer will be over before I get the sectional out on the deck.
What the heck? Football already started. ;-)

[Leon]

So I think using the Boardwalk pads would make about as much difference
as using Norton 150 grit vs. 3M 150 grit. On Amazon I simply did a
search for white Scotch Brite and that is what popped up along with the
expensive brands.

>
> I finished 37 pieces, about 125' of 2 x 4's, and 1 x 4's all 4 sides. 60-ish BF.
> I've got another 20 pieces or so to go.
>
> Here's a couple of examples, raw vs Monocoat Hybrid Wood Protector.
> 2 parts Pure, 1 part Royal. Pure has no UV protection, only the pigmented
> products do. I was told that 1/3 pigment would provide enough "sunscreen".

Hey the Monocoat treated looks good! Nice an even.

>
> https://i.imgur.com/eB2Nxko.jpg
>
> The hardest part was keeping track of the timing of the finishing steps.

Yeah! LOL At least you know which noes have the product!

>
> Monocoat's instructions are to wipe on a layer of oil with a pad, wait 10
> minutes, wipe it down with the same pad without adding more oil, wait
> 5 minutes then wipe off any remaining oil with a clean cloth.

I don't recall the clean cloth step. Is the surface tacky, is it an
issue with wiping the surface with the cloth? AND the outdoor product
may work a little differently than the indoor version.

>
> That's fine when you're doing a deck or a table, but when you're doing 50+
> individual boards between 2' and 4', one after the other, the 10 minutes and 5
> minutes begin to overlap and things get interesting. I used Alexa timers
> but I soon discovered that once I had 6 boards in the cycle, I had to slow
> down and catch up.
>

Yeah you have to do the wipe down at about the same speed as the
application.

[DerbyDad03]

The guy from SHP (monocoat.us) also mentioned Boardwalk pads.
I think it was BWK401.

http://www.boardwalklabel.com/product/boardwalk-light-duty-white-pad-4-x-10/

> >
> > I finished 37 pieces, about 125' of 2 x 4's, and 1 x 4's all 4 sides. 60-ish BF.
> > I've got another 20 pieces or so to go.
> >
> > Here's a couple of examples, raw vs Monocoat Hybrid Wood Protector.
> > 2 parts Pure, 1 part Royal. Pure has no UV protection, only the pigmented
> > products do. I was told that 1/3 pigment would provide enough "sunscreen".
> Hey the Monocoat treated looks good! Nice an even.

Most pieces are as even as those, but they started out even. Some of the cedar
that I finished tonight has some very white areas. Here's a before and after.

https://i.imgur.com/QVAEeUI.jpg

Luckily, I planned ahead and any pieces like those will not be front and center.

> >
> > https://i.imgur.com/eB2Nxko.jpg
> >
> > The hardest part was keeping track of the timing of the finishing steps.
> Yeah! LOL At least you know which noes have the product!
> >
> > Monocoat's instructions are to wipe on a layer of oil with a pad, wait 10
> > minutes, wipe it down with the same pad without adding more oil, wait
> > 5 minutes then wipe off any remaining oil with a clean cloth.

> I don't recall the clean cloth step. Is the surface tacky, is it an
> issue with wiping the surface with the cloth? AND the outdoor product
> may work a little differently than the indoor version.

Very little tackiness and after one wipe it's smooth and silky. I used numerous
small (6" x 6"?) rags, doing no more than 3 boards each to keep the rags from
loading up. There was a little more tackiness with the first use of a new rag
but still not much. Of course, it also depended on how much oil was left after
the pad wipe.

> >
> > That's fine when you're doing a deck or a table, but when you're doing 50+
> > individual boards between 2' and 4', one after the other, the 10 minutes and 5
> > minutes begin to overlap and things get interesting. I used Alexa timers
> > but I soon discovered that once I had 6 boards in the cycle, I had to slow
> > down and catch up.
> >
> Yeah you have to do the wipe down at about the same speed as the
> application.

That's tough to do when you're doing 60 individual pieces and don't want to stand
around doing nothing between stages. Like I said, I could keep track of about 6
boards at time and only have to take a breather as the last couple of 5 minute wait
periods expired before starting again.

Last night I had Alexa keeping "timers" for me but when you ask for a timer status,
she doesn't read them back to in the order you set them, she reads them back
in the order of how much time is left. I still had to remember which board was
associated with which 10 minute or 5 minute timer. You basically have to keep
asking her so you know what the next timer alarm is for, since it's just a "sound".

Tonight I got smarter. I used *reminders* instead of timers. Right after I coated a
board, I'd say "Alexa, remind me to pad wipe board X in 10 minutes." and then right
after the pad wipe I'd say "Alexa, remind me to rag wipe board X in 5 minutes." etc.
Since the boards were lined up in order, I knew which one she was talking about and
what needed to be done to it. 20 boards done with essentially no down time.
Not sure why I didn't think of that last night.

Assembly starts tomorrow. (Sunday) Sitting, hopefully, starts in a few days, although
life has a habit of screwing with my plans.

[Bob Davis]

I am coming back and applying their maintenance oil to most of my applications. It changes the flat finish to a nice satin finish and the grain tends to pop more with the maintenance oil finish. It only takes a whisper of the oil to do this -- way less than the monocoat finish originally applied.

Bob

[Bob Davis]

Great idea to use reminders! I think that will work on apple devices, too.

Bob

[DerbyDad03]

While not a "maintenance" recoat per se, I did have to fix a couple of
issues.

If you've been following the thread, you know that I am working with a
number of individual boards and coating all 4 sides. That means that I
am constantly handling the wood, unlike if I was doing a table or deck.

I must have forgotten to wipe off my gloves when I did one of the final rag
wipes because the next day I looked at a board and saw a dark mess of oil
at one end, right where I would have been holding it.

After a moment of panic, and wondering if I was going to be able to sand
the oil off, I remembered reading about "reactivation". I grabbed a pad, put
a small amount of oil on it and began to wipe the mess. Within seconds,
the mess was gone and the color was all nice and even.

Later, during assembly, I realized that 2 boards were about 1/16" too wide.
I ripped them down, rounded over the edge and applied the finish to just the
raw edge. Now I can't tell which boards I fixed. The new oil just blends right
in, no lap marks.

In terms of application, I'm pretty impressed with this stuff. Pricey, yes, but
ease of use and "fixability" is worth the extra cost. Now it's just a question
of longevity on the outdoor furniture.