Has anyone here ever used "Meguiar's" brand Furniture Cleaner or Polish ????
Mike Phillips
I am not much of a wood worker, more of a car nut. I am writing a how-to
book on polishing
paint using the Meguiar's Mirror Glaze brand of cleaners, polishes and
waxes.
Meguiars' originally started out as a "Furniture Polish" company.
I have never used any of their Home Products line which includes;
F-0116 Furniture Cleaner - Safely and effectively strips away years of
wax build up, dirt and grime. Cleans deep down to the pores. Leaves the
finish ready for an application of furniture polish.
F-0216 Furniture Polish - Restores necessary nutrient feeder-oils to fine
wood furniture. Produces a high gloss finish without wax build up.
F-0516 Dull Finish Preserver - Cleans and polishes in one step. Feeds
and rejuvenates with necessary nutrient feeder-oils to hand rubbed natural
wood finishes.
F-0716 Lemon Oil - A lemon oil cleaner and a polish in one product. For
cleaning wood, stainless steel and glass surfaces.
F-0816 Bath & Kitchen Cleaner/Polish - This product is kind of like the
#6 Cleaner Wax in that it cleans stains and soap scum from fiberglass
surfaces. Can also be used on chrome, tile, mirrors, porcelain, plastics
and just about anything else in your kitchen and bathroom.
F-0316 Silver Polish - A high quality fine polish for safely polishing
fine silver. Leaves a chrome like finish to silver in good condition and
restores the shine to dull tarnished silver.
F-0608 Marble Polish - A rich cleaner polish that removes accumulated
dirt, smudges, and the dulling affects of time. Leaves a deep luster on
natural marble, travertine, and man-made marble.
Have any of you ever used any of these products ???
What is your Opinion of them???
Which ones do you use and what do you use it on???
Any information on any of the above products would be greatly appreciated.
The Meguiar's company is very helpful when it comes to the automotive
products but I have not been able
to find out very much about this "Home" products line.
Thank you very much,...
Mike Phillips
Arthur M. Schneiderman
use to help him at his home show booth demos and in his door-to-door
selling. We'd go to junk yards for old faded fenders and hoods and to the
Salvation Army and Morgan Memorial for old furniture. My mother and her
friends supplied the mandatory supply of worn turkish towels. The products
were miraculous. Over the years, I've continued to use them and have never
once been disappointed.
In fact, I still have half a (glass) bottle of their Furniture and Woodwork
Cleaner (Part Number MFB-1 from their "De Luxe Household Line" which sold
for $1.85) as well as some of their early automotive line. One whiff from
these antiques produces instant nostalgia. Modern finishes (e.g.
polyurethane) have obsoleted their furniture line but there's still nothing
like it for rejuvenating old furniture (lacquered, varnished, or enameled).
I'll look forward to your book. Best of luck.
-- Art --
Mike Phillips wrote in message <7b9vpu$3rv$1...@nntp.or.nw.verio.net>...
George Nazarko
shield. Worked well. BUT - I would never spend money to "clean up wax
buildup" beyond the price of mineral spirits. Now I'll draw some
disclaimers, but soft wax really doesn't build up on itself, for the simple
reason that the solvent softens old along with new, making it vulnerable to
wipeoff. It's dirt buildup that counts. The dirt in the corners and
crevices is trapped in succeeding layers of wax which is never rubbed before
the solvent has completely evaporated. This stuff responds perfectly to the
technique GIs have used for years - solvent and scraper to get the goo up.
Safest solvent to use on furniture with unknown finishes is mineral spirits.
Restoring oils to the wood is an interesting claim too. If the finish is
intact, just how do the oils get through it? If they do get through, are
they any better than the ones I buy and use? Most products making such
claims are solvents and a bit of oil (wax lite) which clean and put a
temporary slick on the surface. Wouldn't buy them either.
Cleaners feature abrasives of greater or lesser grit, and are designed to
blend in scratches and remove the (usually UV) damaged surface of a finish.
One of the finest out there is rouge, which comes with some wax to hold it
on the buff, and in red or (oxymoron) white so that it can be more
conspicuous where you have a low spot. With modern random orbit sanders and
available low speeds, this has to be the berries for large surfaces, and
it's pretty darn cheap. Some of us want a little less gloss, so we mix some
rottenstone with paraffin wax.
Waxes are designed to shed water and let things slide without scratching,
and come in harder or softer versions. Softer seems intuitively better on
high use areas, because it deforms and slides over itself better, producing
fewer visual scratches. The hard carnubas really look bright. I use
Carnuba to bees and in between, depending on taste.
What about all those products you mentioned? Don't buy 'em anymore. Guess
I'm too cheap.
j enisi
>
> Hi Daniel Shafner,..
>
> Gee, thanks for the scathing reply,... way to make a newcomer
> to you newsgroup feel welcome,...
>
<snip of post that goes with dairy products>
> I have been posting to newsgroups since 1993,
s'funny, haven't learded much huh?
and your post is the rudest
> example
> of what turns newbies away from forums like this,... Have a nice day !!!!
Ah lemme see, Daniel Schafner: one of IMHO the more knowledgeable people
when it comes to finishes here, understands the chemistry behind them (
related to Flexner? :-)) posts a lot of useful information. OK.
Mike Phillips: newbie to the 'rec, posts misinformation and whines when
corrected. Hmmmm.....
Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
Ed
IB
Shafner
comments that I am going to insert in your snipped quotation below:
Mike Phillips wrote:
>
> Hi all,...
<snipped>
> F-0216 Furniture Polish - Restores necessary nutrient feeder-oils to fine
> wood furniture. Produces a high gloss finish without wax build up.
If you are writing a book and you want it to be of any value to us, then you
ought to dispel this marketing hogwash that any polish "feed" furniture. Film
finishes do not need feeding, they are types of plastics -- yes, even shellac
falls into that catagory -- and no plastic that I know of is hungry or starves.
Furniture made from wood deos not need fedding. The tree was killed when it
was felled. As per a Monty Python skit, we are talking about an ex-tree.
How does a polish produce a high gloss finish? Well, if the polish contains
film-forming materials, that is one way. If the polish contains solvents that
can resolvate the original finish (alamgamators) then that is another way,
except that reactive coatings do not resolvate. If the polish contains
abrasive qualities, then burnishing any finish so as to alter its sheen can
loosely be considered as having produced a higher gloss finish as long as the
sheen is raised above what it wa originally (as tested with a sheen-meter). If
the polish contains oils that have a gloss like putting Brill Cream or mousse
into your hair to give you a wet look, then that is srtetching it, but this is
most likely the case. Test for smeary, fingerprinting surfaces after using the
oily polish.
This marketing bushwah should not be repeated in any book or article about
these products because that is all that crap is: hype. Now if your book is to
sell and promote Meguires, fine. Then you can write your catalog for them. But
do not call it journalism because you now have been enlightened that there is
a problem with their descriptions.
>
> F-0516 Dull Finish Preserver - Cleans and polishes in one step. Feeds
> and rejuvenates with necessary nutrient feeder-oils to hand rubbed natural
> wood finishes.
Onceagain, read what I wrote above. Unless you have an oil finish (bioled
linseed oil, for example) that is not film-forming, there is NO feeding of any
coating. As for rejuvinating, as I said also, unless you are alamgamating the
finish or buffing the finish, there can be no rejuvination. All finishes can
be rubbed and re-rubbed, with varying degrees of success, but not all finishes
can be re-amalgamated.
In addition to researching the existence and use of these products, you need
to do some serious research on how all their produsts really work. They are
either oils that sit on tops of surfaces or they are abrasives suspended in
liquids used for cutting finishes (that is part of the buffing/compounding
process). Or they are combinations of both (Meguires #7, for example). A
little critical thinking is in order.
--
Daniel Shafner
shafner at earthlink dot net
Jim McNamara
buffing and gloss work. They have a website so search.
--
Jim Mc Namara
Future Collectibles
Dan & Irene Hunting
Hair is DEAD cells. PT Barnum was right.
Mike Phillips
Gee, thanks for the scathing reply,... way to make a newcomer
to you newsgroup feel welcome,...
All I did was post the information I had from Meguiar's own literature, not
my own statements,...
opinions or beliefs,...
I hope your not this mean spirited to everyone who posts a question.
And for your information,... my how-to book is not about working on wood,..
It is about working on automotive paints,... I was just curious about
working on wood,...
I have been posting to newsgroups since 1993, and your post is the rudest
example
of what turns newbies away from forums like this,... Have a nice day !!!!
Mike Phillips
Mike Phillips
Do you and Daniel work together to make newcomers feel welcome ???
Duh,.. I know Meguiar's makes automotive polishes,...
Did you know they also make Furniture cleaners and polishes ???
Did you know they are one of America's Oldest Family Business???
You sound like you know everything,... You certainly know how to be polite
to
a newcomer to you newsgroup.
How mean spirited your reply was,
Thank you for taking the time to be so nasty,
Gee,... Maybe you guys would just like to kill me for asking a question,..
Would that make you feel like Big Men ???
Jim McNamara wrote in message <01be657f$aec2b340$62441ed1@jmcn>...
Duke of URLs
>Hi Daniel Shafner,..
much snippage of whine and neurosis
>Mike Phillips
Gee whiz, golly and gee willikers Mike. I don't know what to say. I
read Dan's post when it first ran and thought he did a good job of
dispelling a myth. I'd hate to see what happens when one of the
groups real ass holes takes a bite out of you.
Keith Bohn
P.S. Somebody pass me the Gentle Daze?
Andrew Barss
<shrill reply to Daniel Shafner deleted, thank god>
Mike,
I think you misread Daniel Shafner's post. In your original
enquiry, you quoted what appeared to be ad copy from the company you're
apparently writing a book about. Daniel's post made a very important
point: Maguire's, like many furniture-care products aimed at the hapless
consumer, makes claims thatn are utterly and totally false. Daniel did a
decent job of telling you that one service you could do in your "book" is
to correct this misinformation.
Instead of thanking him for information of the type you explicitly
requested, you sniped at him! Poor form. Next time you ask for
information, be prepared to hear something honest, instead of the
quotable-quotes (e.g., "dozens of woodworkers say Maguire's is
keen-o!") that maybe you were trolling for.
Good luck with your book.
-- Andrew Barss
Dan DeVault
snip.........
> All I did was post the information I had from Meguiar's own literature, not
> my own statements,...
> opinions or beliefs,...
So you admit to plagerism ? Or you just have no opinions or beliefs ?
>
> And for your information,... my how-to book is not about working on wood,..
> It is about working on automotive paints,... I was just curious about
> working on wood,...
What makes you think we are curious about automotive paints ? If you want I'll
write your book for you........ especially if all I have to do is ask people
on the net instead of doing my own research. You sure you aren't a college
student trying to get answers for a project ?
Shafner
Mr. Phillips, you will someday be one of those people saying nice things too.
You said you were writing a book. My response to you was constructive. It was
so constructive, that instead of reacting to what you thought was nastiness on
my part, if you were to have read what I said, it outlined for you one way
that your book can become a piece of literature worth owning by more than just
me -- as a fan of Meguires, I would buy the book just to own since I use many
of their products.
It would be human nature if I were to attack in kind the way that you have
attacked me, not just in this thread, but in another. You made ME the subject
of the thread. And, no, I do not like seeing my name in the subject line.
What you should have done is ask questions about what I had written. You are
not going to get very far with your book if you do not know how to gather
information first before you start forming conclusions. You see, my intentions
were to be helpful. I explained something to you that I found misleading, and
I told you how to go about getting even more details. I unearthed an issue
that you did not know existed -- oily polishes and the marketing myths used to
hype them -- and you just do not know how to take the ball and run with it.
I guess you may not know very much about Meguires' compounds and polishes, or
anyone's for tha matter. I do not know the kind of work that you do. But other
than getting good results (I assume that you might because I will give you the
benefit of the doubt), you could not explain why you do what you do and how
whatever it is that you do works.
Here is a little more help for you: there are many tools, materials and
techniques in both the autobody business and the woodfinishing business that
do more than overlap. Some of these tools, materials and techniques are
universal to bith industries, but guys like you do not know that. Spraying is
spraying. Rubbing out is rubbing out. You autobody fokls do that, and guess
what: we wood finishers do that too.
Now go and reread what I had responded to you in the first place and assume
that my intentions are very good and helpful, and that the halo above my head
and the wings on my back are so big that I will never be able to fit through
any door of any house that you will ever own or sit at your table without
crowding you, your egeo and your family out of that room.
You read something between my lines that just was not there. Fair enough?
Mike Phillips wrote:
>
> Hi Daniel Shafner,..
>
> Gee, thanks for the scathing reply,... way to make a newcomer
> to you newsgroup feel welcome,...
>
> All I did was post the information I had from Meguiar's own literature, not
> my own statements,...
> opinions or beliefs,...
>
> I hope your not this mean spirited to everyone who posts a question.
>
> And for your information,... my how-to book is not about working on wood,..
> It is about working on automotive paints,... I was just curious about
> working on wood,...
>
> I have been posting to newsgroups since 1993, and your post is the rudest
> example
> of what turns newbies away from forums like this,... Have a nice day !!!!
>
> Mike Phillips
--
Kevin Singleton
you to leave your newsreader and use the web to find the answers you seek,
especially considering that you were logged on at the time you asked the
question! What, does he think you actually have time to find this stuff out
for yourself? Some nerve. Oughtta be a law. Keep whining, so I can pick
you up on sonar.
Kevin
Mike Phillips wrote in message <7bkk14$hse$1...@nntp.or.nw.verio.net>...
Arthur M. Schneiderman
That's strange. Sounds like it shouldn't work in theory, but it DOES in
practice! Maybe if you tried it you'd discover something interesting.
BTW, how do stains occur if things are either film forming, resolvating or
abrasive? How does moisture get into a finished board and cause it to warp?
Why does paint remover work? When finishes age, what's happening? Can it
be chemically reversed? Since you don't know Meguiar's formula, how can you
make such categorical assertions? Obviously finishes are porous
(particularly the old ones) so why can't a polish permeate the finish and
even the wood and replace volitiles that have been lost over time?
I agree that our world is filled with marketing hype, but it's everywhere,
not just at Meguiar's. Mike's book and question is about the product and
its use, not how it's marketed. You can write that one.
-- Art --
Shafner wrote in message <36DD2957...@earthlink.net>...
>I never new that Meguires made Furniture Care Products. But I havea couple
of
>comments that I am going to insert in your snipped quotation below:
>
>
>Mike Phillips wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,...
>
><snipped>
>> F-0216 Furniture Polish - Restores necessary nutrient feeder-oils to
fine
>> wood furniture. Produces a high gloss finish without wax build up.
>
>If you are writing a book and you want it to be of any value to us, then
you
>ought to dispel this marketing hogwash that any polish "feed" furniture.
Film
>finishes do not need feeding, they are types of plastics -- yes, even
shellac
>falls into that catagory -- and no plastic that I know of is hungry or
starves.
>
>Furniture made from wood deos not need fedding. The tree was killed when it
>was felled. As per a Monty Python skit, we are talking about an ex-tree.
>
David Barnett
>Do you and Daniel work together to make newcomers feel welcome ???
>
>Duh,.. I know Meguiar's makes automotive polishes,...
>
>Did you know they also make Furniture cleaners and polishes ???
>Did you know they are one of America's Oldest Family Business???
>
>You sound like you know everything,... You certainly know how to be polite
>to
>a newcomer to you newsgroup.
>
>
>How mean spirited your reply was,
> Thank you for taking the time to be so nasty,
Pay no heed to infidel doubters and naysayers, Mike. I know what you say is
true. You can TOO feed wood. I once made an oak cutting board and had used
it for several days on hard vegetables like carrots, turnips, and so on with
no deleterious effects, but the very first time I cut some sirloin cubes for
beef fondue... IT SUCKED UP THE BLOOD!!!! IT FED ON BLOOD!!!! I was so
shocked I cut my finger, AND IT SUCKED MY BLOOD, TOO!!!!!! Well, out went
that cutting board and now I use only plastic in my kitchen. You have to be
very careful when you work with power OR hand tools, Researchers at the
famed Valdosta Institute for Advanced New Age Studies and Peanut Product
Development have concluded that unfinished wood will actually lull you into
a stupor to induce catastrophic accidents SO IT CAN FEED ON YOUR BLOOD!!!!
IT WANTS REVENGE!!!!!! So the lesson to be learned from this is to finish
your wood with several coats of a good film moisture barrier (like
Meguiar's), one that feeds it palliating nutrients that have been
magnetically treated to difuse and distort devious psychic emanations. Of
course, I'm preaching to the choir by telling YOU this, but maybe others
with more open minds, less knee-jerk sceptical natures will benefit from
your expertise.
>Gee,... Maybe you guys would just like to kill me for asking a question,..
>Would that make you feel like Big Men ???
Yes. Yes, they most certainly DO want to kill you. And now they'll be coming
for ME, too.
David Renfield Barnett
Northampton State Hospital
Paul T. Radovanic
We're glad you came to us because we think we can help you. Your er,
condition was discussed by our staff. We have reached a conclusion.
Aw, shaddap ya big crybaby. Want some cheese with that whine?
We would like to think that someone of Mr. Shafner's caliber is
representative of rec.woodworking. He is a professional in every
sense of the word. He took his valuable time to answer your question
accurately and directly, and gave you more than you asked for; a
bonus.
For that, you paste his name in a subject header?
See ya. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
Paul Rad
Gary Robson
> Gee, thanks for the scathing reply,... way to make a newcomer
> to you newsgroup feel welcome,...
I'm going to have to go with the consensus here, Mike. I've re-read the
thread, and I see the following history:
1) Mike Phillips states that he's writing a book, and includes marketing
hype on products
2) Daniel Shafner calmly points out that significant portions of said hype
are actually hogwash, and provides backup data.
3) Mike Phillips whines because he was corrected.
Yes, I've posted messages to Usenet (and other forums) that contained
misinformation, and I've been corrected a lot more harshly than Daniel
corrected you. If the person doing the correcting was right (as Daniel
was), you should learn to either thank them for the information, or if you
must pout, go off in a snit silently. Complaining to the group just makes
you look bad.
-=- Gary -=-
rec.woodworking FAQ: http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/
Closed Captioning FAQ: http://www.robson.org/capfaq/
My Web Site: http://www.robson.org/gary/
Shafner
>
> Daniel:
>
> That's strange. Sounds like it shouldn't work in theory, but it DOES in
> practice! Maybe if you tried it you'd discover something interesting.
>
> BTW, how do stains occur if things are either film forming, resolvating or
> abrasive?
It depends on the stain and the actual coating that is on the wood. Even glass
can get damaged.
> How does moisture get into a finished board and cause it to warp?
Depending upon the coating, again, what usually happens is that coatings are
semi-permiable. They are not 100% waterproof, except for polyester. Many
coatings are water resistant. And the same holds true for water vapor which is
able to slowly penetrate through coatings in and out of wood. The function of
most coatings -- and this is why we use vinyl sealer or shellac so as to have
even more moisture resistant coatings -- is to SLOW down the moisture vapor
exchange allowing the wood to achieve or keep its equilibrium in its moisture
content, usually between 6% to 12% moisture content, if it has been properly
dried/seasoned in the first place.
> Why does paint remover work?
Paint removers work because of the high KB value that methylene chloride,
acetone and lye have. These are very strong solvents which cause the film
formed by the paint to wrinkle and separate from the surface that it has clung
to. On oil-based paints, it causes the varnish to swell and wrinkle. On
waterbased paints (latex), it just causes the solids of the paint to gum up,
melt, if you will. On shellac, it melts the shellac, and the same with
lacquer. On polyester, if it can get through the impervious layer of the
coating down to the wood, it causes the finish to be released from the bond
that it has formed with the wood. The only way to get through a polyester
coating is by phsically scoring the surface, causing a breach so that the
methylene chloride can do what it does best. Often, an acid-based reover with
a pH as low as 2 or 3 is used on polyester.
> When finishes age, what's happening?
It depends what causes or accelerates the aging of the finish. If the cause is
exposure to light, then the finish deteriorates. If you are talking about old,
old finishes, it also depends on what the finish is and what it has been
exposed to. Did you know that if you drank enough formaldehyde, that you would
also not age? You might die in the process, but aging would be for the living,
not the few who like to experiment with this unique "Fountain of Youth".
> Can it be chemically reversed?
Can an aging finish be chemically reversed? Some can. Some finishes, depending
on the finish and the state of deterioration it is in, can be reamalgamated or
reflowed.
> Since you don't know Meguiar's formula, how can you
> make such categorical assertions?
Here is a catagorical assertion: there is no magic. Here is another: there is
nothing new under the sun, and the world of finishing has not changed all that
much in the last 30 or 40 years, with the possible exception of powder
coatings, foil coatings and uV cured coatings.
> Obviously finishes are porous
> (particularly the old ones) so why can't a polish permeate the finish and
> even the wood and replace volitiles that have been lost over time?
The last thing we finishers need in the wood when we are finishing is oil. The
oils, had they been there (let's take a nice oily wood like teak), have been
solvent washed with acetone of naptha so that we could apply our finishes and
by the time any oil that we could not wash out would want to come bubbling up
like Uncle Jed's oil well of Black Gold and Texas Tea (Beverly Hillbillies),
they would be stopped by a nicely cured finish. Otherwise, if the finish were
not cured enough to stop the oil, then we would have finishing problems. And
still they occur like when knots in the wood bleed through our coatings,
regardless of the cure. So we slop them over with shellac to seal those knots
in, and apply a fresh coat. The oils do not need replacing andthe wood does
not need feeding. By the way, most finishes that are water resistent and not
water proof, are not pourous, they are semipermiable, like the surface of an ovum.
> I agree that our world is filled with marketing hype, but it's everywhere,
> not just at Meguiar's. Mike's book and question is about the product and
> its use, not how it's marketed. You can write that one.
I have no intention of writing a book. But when I give an opinion on a
newsgroup that I think is helpful, even if I am off-base or in error
somewhere, then that means it is time to DISCUSS the differences of opinions,
not attack the guy with motives that are not evil.
Now, at the time this response is posted, I have already communicated with Mr.
Phillips privately so that neither of us has to feel that we have an enemy in
the making. And the feeling from Mr. Phillips is mutual, bygones being
bygones. Usenet is not always so dastardly, it turns out.
bo...@mail.state.fl.us
<snip>
Either this individual has a problem, be it ego or
is just emotionally "challanged", or this is a troll. A
reasonable person does react this way to someone
nicely correcting them.
I'm guessing it's a yard troll. If you need plans
for a (poor) troll just keep replying to the posts.
Either way, it's killfile time.
Roger Books (trying to wade through r.w.w on a 10 minute
break)
-------------------------------------------------------
| Unix sysadmin, Unix group | (850)921-0729 |
| Information Technology Program | |
| Dept of Mgmt Services | |
| State of Florida | |
-------------------------------------------------------
Bruce
<djba...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>course, I'm preaching to the choir by telling YOU this, but maybe others
>with more open minds, less knee-jerk sceptical natures will benefit from
>your expertise.
>
>>Gee,... Maybe you guys would just like to kill me for asking a question,..
>>Would that make you feel like Big Men ???
>
>Yes. Yes, they most certainly DO want to kill you. And now they'll be coming
>for ME, too.
>
>
>David Renfield Barnett
>Northampton State Hospital
Love the Renfield reference!!!!!!!!LOL
Bruce
Shafner
thread are truely not so nice. If I did not have the gumption to be so unkind,
then don't you all think that you could follow my lead? I appreciate the
tactical air support, but even if no one responded to say that they agreed
with anything that I said on any subject, it does not change what I said. In
the legal world they use the Latin phrase "rez ipsa loquitor" which means "the
thing speaks for itself". It pains me to no end to quote that drunken driver
who resisted arrest, Rodney King, but that wealthy fool did ask, "Can't we all
just get along?"
David Barnett
>Many of the participating messages in this thread and the original Meguires
>thread are truely not so nice. If I did not have the gumption to be so unkind,
>then don't you all think that you could follow my lead? I appreciate the
>tactical air support, but even if no one responded to say that they agreed
>with anything that I said on any subject, it does not change what I said. In
>the legal world they use the Latin phrase "rez ipsa loquitor" which means "the
>thing speaks for itself". It pains me to no end to quote that drunken driver
>who resisted arrest, Rodney King, but that wealthy fool did ask, "Can't we all
>just get along?"
Daniel, I respectfully disagree with you and I want to tell you why. What
you say seems reasonable and civil beyond question -- I know you have the
best of intentions -- but I think Mr. Phillips' posts elicited challenging
and disparaging responses not so much in your defense, as you can obviously
handle puerile affronts without help, but to chastise the offending and
offensive poster, much the same as gimp strays are run off from a herd to
which they do not belong, or strangers to a small town are initially
regarded with suspician. Mr. Phillips statements provoked distaste, earning
him a few nudges from the group.
Although you have set aside your differences with Mr. Phillips, and allowing
Mr. Phillips may be given second chances by those who choose to take that
road, it doesn't imply that others must or should follow your lead. Just
because two parties settle out of court, so to speak, doesn't mean that
others who find the 'insulting party' still insulting should now set aside
THEIR differences or change their opinions. I realize this seems like a
stronger example, but I just wanted to point out that not everyone feels
comfortable with a quick "I'm sorry", or "I didn't mean to". It's just human
nature.
I suspect from Mr. Phillips' defensive outburst that he's been in this
position before, and being less quick to forgive and forget than many, I'm
dubious of sudden improvements. This is just my opinion and in no way do I
wish undue harm to Mr. Phillips or for that matter, to anyone else. A bit of
razz and ridicule, though, is not all bad; healthy for those who express it,
for the group as a whole, and maybe even healthy for one who provokes such
intense reactions, thickening the skin a bit. "Not so nice", as you say,
doesn't necessarily mean 'wrong or inappropriate', so I really don't think
it's entirely fair to admonish others for their personally valid
counterstrokes. Anyway, that's my take.
>Now, at the time this response is posted, I have already communicated with Mr.
>Phillips privately so that neither of us has to feel that we have an enemy in
>the making. And the feeling from Mr. Phillips is mutual, bygones being
>bygones. Usenet is not always so dastardly, it turns out.
Things have worked out for you. To each his own. Good fences make good
neighbors. And so on. Yeah, maybe I got up on the wrong side of the bed this
morning. Problem is, the other side's against the wall.
David Barnett
Bob D.
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> >Hi Daniel Shafner,..
> >Mike Phillips
>
> Gee whiz, golly and gee willikers Mike. I don't know what to say. I
> read Dan's post when it first ran and thought he did a good job of
> dispelling a myth. I'd hate to see what happens when one of the
> groups real ass holes takes a bite out of you.
>
> Keith Bohn
>
> P.S. Somebody pass me the Gentle Daze?
Well, Keith, not everyone may be IN THE KNOW about the fast-acting and
hollistically healthful effect of GENTLE DAZE yet. Few outside of the
intelligensia would be aware yet that it WON PRODUCT OF THE
YEAR after exhaustive PRODUCT TESTINGS by the Olimpick testing review
board at their PRESTIGIOUS Bird Polar testing facility as THE MOST
effective lithium suppository available on the entire CONTINENT. I have
passed on your suggestion to marketing that they use an actual
testimontial by a SATISFIED USER that you have relayed on to us:
"I converted my nailer to administer Gentle Daze with one quick
squeeze of the trigger. Gives a whole new meaning to the name
Passload".
Our marketing department has come up with several NEW and AWESOMELY
ENGLAMORIZINGLY EFFUSIVE AND MEGA-GREAT new marketing slogans that
I'D LIKE TO SHARE with everyone out there FOR FREE! I've also included
the SUPER SLOGANS for several other MONDO NIFTY products we're
considering as well!
"Gentle Daze lithium suppositories; They'll leave you sane in the end...."
"Gentle Daze, for when you positively, absolutely have to get your ass
out of the sanitarium"
"Gentle Daze, they're not just for serial killers anymore...."
"Gentle Daze, let the healing start from deep inside"
"Gentle Daze, the healing starts when the lithium smarts"
"Four out of five ranting loons prefer Gentle Daze" (the fifth one escaped
from the testing facility after substituting a crayon for the test sample;
Please call us at 1-800-SNAPPED if you should happen to see any lawn
green toilet rings in public restrooms).
"Gentle Daze, the quality goes in before the lights go on".
"Gentle Daze, the lithium goes in before the drool goes on"
"Gentle Daze, the lemony freshscent suppository with improved forebrain
scrubbing action"
"Gentle Daze, betcha can't freak with just one"
"Got 'Daze?"
"Care enough to lose the beast, Gentle Daze lithium suppositories"
"Twenty Mule-team Lithium Suppositories, they'll stop Death Valley with a daze"
"Stop the burning, itching pain you're being without surgery with
Preparational-GD lithium suppositories."
"Is your transmission slipping? Go with Lithgo for a tune-up"
"GlooooooliteeAunteeEmgnaaaar, ask it by name!"
"Froth-ed Lucky Liths, it magically brainlithious!"
"Hi, I don't know me, but with my Lithium Express Pard I can go
doodies without a straight jacket. Lithium Express -- don't leave
Belleview without it!"
"Anheadrin, for a maximum headache pain"
"Hi, I'm Strally Suthers, you may remember me as a whiney, simpering,
mouth-breather from such ads as 'Do you wanna make money? Shure, we
all doooo' and some sitcom from the before-time. Stop the hurting,
make the blue furry snakes go away, eat Brunch in public, and
stop tinkling in expensive Frappacino bottles. Gentle Daze Lithium
Suppositories, just a little slab will clue ya."
AND, OF COURSE, our NEW AND PREVIOUSLY *UNANNOUNCED* product "Light
Daze", for those days when you don't quite need the full forebrain
shampoo scrubbing action of "Gentle Daze". Yes, LIGHT DAZE is for
those days when you've nearly connected all the dots, but you have that
nagging, whiney voice whispering in the back of your head, telling you
that you just MAY have an hour-eating memory blackout and the hard to
remove stains and abrasions that go with them. Try some and we're sure
you'll FEEL THE DIFFERENT.
And, for HEAVY daze, try NEW AND IMPROVED (with an ergonomic redesign and
a colorful new EASY TO FIND packaging by internationally FAMOUS
DESIGNER of hydrodynamic hovercraft Maxx Petre) "Maxi Spaz"!
"Gentle Daze Maxi-spaz, for the heavy daze when things are looking up
(at you from the floor tiles)"
Two out of three convicted violent serial criminals have stated that
they'd feel COMPLETELY SAFE ON THE STREET if they were using MAXI SPAZ.
<d&rfc>
--
============================================================
..two thousand, five hundred Terabytes of spinning data,
all at home on the 'net....home to net wanderers, drifters,
and aliens...the name of the place...Internet '99.
Gary Robson
>Well, Keith, not everyone may be IN THE KNOW about the fast-acting and
>hollistically healthful effect of GENTLE DAZE yet. Few outside of the
>intelligensia would be aware yet that it WON PRODUCT OF THE
>YEAR after exhaustive PRODUCT TESTINGS by the Olimpick testing review
ROTFLMAO! Gee, Bob. Slow day?