Final coat of Spar Urethane on my bar top - now what?
Mike
looks absolutely stunning! (this is my first 'serious' project, so
excuse me if I seem to be more than just a little proud!). After
reading various posts and websites, I thinned the first coat 1:1 with
mineral spirits, then put the remaining three coats on full strength,
sanding lightly with a 220 grit before each coat. The finish is now
like glass! However, there are occasional bits of something that
easily come off with a fingernail. I'm speculating that they're
bubbles - not too ugly, and they'll probably wear off in time. My
concern is that people will not resist the temptation to remove them
for me and, in so doing, potentially damage the finish. I've read
that my next step should be to wet sand with a 400 grit, then hit it
with an automotive polishing compound. Will this eliminate the
'problem', such as it is? Frankly, I'm reluctant to take this last
step because I just know I'll screw it up. The Helmsman seems a bit
softer that most finishes (it supposedly can accommodate temperature
expansion/contraction of the wood), so I don't know how it will take
to this final step. How about a paste wax? Will these bits be eased
off while buffing? Is a wax product good for a spar urethane finish
or will I be creating other problems?
Any other suggestions/recommendations?
nailsh...@aol.com
> I've finished putting the final coat of Helmsman on my bar >top and it looks absolutely stunning!
SNIP
> Any other suggestions/recommendations?
Congrats on the new top!
Beware of any advice you get on the processes you are asking about
from anyone.
No one knows how thick you put the finish on. Less finish means less
material to sand off and polish. If your final desired thickness is
somewhere around 3 - 4 mil, you may only be a little thicker than
that now. Hitting it with sandpaper, then buffing it out through the
grades of polish to get out the scratches left by 400 grit could
easily take the coating down to a thickness top that is too thin to be
useful as a bar top. Bar tops take a pretty good beating.
Just my 0.02 here, but an exterior rated varnish wouldn't have been my
first choice for the project.
"Spar varnish" was developed to be water resistant as its first task,
and UV resistant as its second. Unfortunately most UV inhibitors make
finishes softer when cured. This is good for the boat guys and for
your outdoor furniture that is exposed to the elements as this
flexibility will help keep it from cracking off, exposing the wood
below. You can polish it out to make it really shiny, but it will
never have the durability of interior rated finishes. Typically these
have no UV inhibitors or only tiny amounts so you can put your piece
by sunny window without disaster.
If you piece is outside by the BBQ pit, good choice. Inside, there
are probably better choices, finshes that are selected based on their
abrasion resistance.
Before you get in the middle of buffing out the top, you will probably
need to let the top hard cure for about 30-45 days after your last
application of finish. Green time cure time on these finishes is
about 15 days or so, but on this particular finish you should contact
the manufacturer.
Be careful in what you do, and if you are 95% happy with your finish I
would leave it alone. You know where all the faults are, so you see
them when you look at them. Others won't, and you will move onto
other projects.
If it turned out the way you wanted that's the best thing. Even
without the abrasion resistance of a harder finish this one should
last a long time with some care.
Robert
Mike
wrote:
> On Apr 23, 7:49 am, Mike <ls1m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've finished putting the final coat of Helmsman on my bar
> > top and it looks absolutely stunning!
>
> SNIP
>
> > Any other suggestions/recommendations?
>
> Congrats on the new top!
>
> Beware of any advice you get on the processes you are asking about
> from anyone.
Agreed - that's why I didn't simply jump into the wet sand/polish
step.
> No one knows how thick you put the finish on. Less finish means less
> material to sand off and polish. If your final desired thickness is
> somewhere around 3 - 4 mil, you may only be a little thicker than
> that now. Hitting it with sandpaper, then buffing it out through the
> grades of polish to get out the scratches left by 400 grit could
> easily take the coating down to a thickness top that is too thin to be
> useful as a bar top. Bar tops take a pretty good beating.
>
> Just my 0.02 here, but an exterior rated varnish wouldn't have been my
> first choice for the project.
I went to various manufacturers websites to research the available
products (granted, advice from the manufacturers can also be
suspect). Minwax specifically recommends Helmsman for bar tops. My
primary concern was water and chemical (alcohol) resistance. This
product seems to address that issue. And the gaudiness of the high
gloss is absolutely perfect for a bar top, IMO! That's exactly the
look I was shooting for. I used their 'Fast Drying' polyurethane for
the sides and knocked the gloss down with steel wool. That also came
out just right, although I'd probably simply buy the satin finish if I
had to do it again. The difference in the 'feel' is obvious, though.
The top definitely feels 'softer' than the sides, though not
disturbingly so. I'm confident that I can address any issues that
come up an a few years, though.
> [...]
>
> Be careful in what you do, and if you are 95% happy with your finish I
> would leave it alone. You know where all the faults are, so you see
> them when you look at them. Others won't, and you will move onto
> other projects.
Good point. My satisfaction is actually a bit higher than 95%, so it
looks like it's going to stay just the way it is.
> If it turned out the way you wanted that's the best thing. Even
> without the abrasion resistance of a harder finish this one should
> last a long time with some care.
Thanks for your comments,
-Mike
Leon
I would go a step farther and put that same finish on a scrap piece of wood,
let a little alcohol spill on it and see if the finish works and looks like
you want.
"Mike" <ls1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1177332594.8...@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Stephen M
> looks absolutely stunning!
Cool. Congrats.
<snip>
> I've read
> that my next step should be to wet sand with a 400 grit, then hit it
> with an automotive polishing compound.
Not really. Your next step is to wait. Any finish will buff out better when
fully cured. The can website says 24 hour dry time, but it will continue to
cure for up to a month.
Patience is your friend. Maybe you will choose to buff it out, maybe leave
it alone. Either is fine.
I suggest some "beer resistance" testing in the interrim :-).
-Steve
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
dadiOH
> "Spar varnish" was developed to be water resistant as its first
> task, and UV resistant as its second.
Actually, the inherent characteristic in spar varnish is flexibility.
That is because it was/is meant to go on - surprise - spars. And
spars bend. The flexibility is achieved at the expense of hardness by
a greater percentage of oil, lesser of resin.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
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LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Mike
<smeier07nos...@champlaintelephone.com> wrote:
> "Mike" <ls1m...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1177332594.8...@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I've finished putting the final coat of Helmsman on my bar top and it
> > looks absolutely stunning!
>
> Cool. Congrats.
>
> <snip>
>
> > I've read
> > that my next step should be to wet sand with a 400 grit, then hit it
> > with an automotive polishing compound.
>
> Not really. Your next step is to wait. Any finish will buff out better when
> fully cured. The can website says 24 hour dry time, but it will continue to
> cure for up to a month.
>
> Patience is your friend. Maybe you will choose to buff it out, maybe leave
> it alone. Either is fine.
Maybe I should simply see how the finish affects the taste of the
beer. If a month goes by and all is well, then I'll just leave it
be.
How long before the urge to stare at it goes away?
> I suggest some "beer resistance" testing in the interrim :-).
I suspect that my "beer resistance" will not be adversely affected by
this new toy. (or were you referring to the finish's resistance to
beer? ;-)
Leon
"dadiOH" <dad...@guesswhere.com> wrote in message
news:6mpXh.1389$Wa.606@trnddc08...
> nailsh...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> "Spar varnish" was developed to be water resistant as its first
>> task, and UV resistant as its second.
>
> Actually, the inherent characteristic in spar varnish is flexibility.
> That is because it was/is meant to go on - surprise - spars. And
> spars bend. The flexibility is achieved at the expense of hardness by
> a greater percentage of oil, lesser of resin.
Correct and as nailshooter pointed out, it's primary purpose is to protect
and being flexible simply prolongs its life expectancy.
Tom B
>
>I suspect that my "beer resistance" will not be adversely affected by
>this new toy. (or were you referring to the finish's resistance to
>beer? ;-)
I had a similar situation with a maple table I built for my hunting
"cabin" several years ago. I used spar varnish for durability but
found that it scratches pretty easily with glasses, cans, etc. being
slid on it during our nightly poker games. Four years ago (after a
couple of touch-up coats of spar) I over coated the spar with a short
oil varnish (Murdoch's Rock Hard in my case). That stuff doesn't
scratch unless someone tests their knife on it, which is strongly
discouraged.
I scuff sanded the spar with 400 grit, then overlaid it with 2 coats
of Murdoch's. 4 years later it still shines bright. Alcohol (after
guns are unloaded and put away!) and water haven't hurt it at all.
Just my experience.
Note: The last coat of spar had cured for about 1 year before the
first overcoat.
Regards.
Tom
Mike Hartigan
xlea...@nospam.mail.airmail.net says...
I'll keep an eye on it for a year or so and take care of it if and
when it needs it. It's good to know that, if it turns out not to be
an ideal finish, it's an easy enough fix.
Tom B
<mi...@hartigan.dot.com> wrote:
Good idea.
Regards.
Tom
Father Haskell
> I've finished putting the final coat of Helmsman on my bar top and it
> looks absolutely stunning! (this is my first 'serious' project, so
> excuse me if I seem to be more than just a little proud!). After
> reading various posts and websites, I thinned the first coat 1:1 with
> mineral spirits, then put the remaining three coats on full strength,
> sanding lightly with a 220 grit before each coat. The finish is now
> like glass! However, there are occasional bits of something that
> easily come off with a fingernail. I'm speculating that they're
> bubbles - not too ugly, and they'll probably wear off in time.
Skinover, maybe? That green spar varnish is like pudding.
Since it cures by oxidation, the surface cures way faster than
the base. This is worse with long oil (spar) varnishes. Try
Behlen's Rockhard (or a similar short oil phenolic) next if you
like varnish.
> My
> concern is that people will not resist the temptation to remove them
> for me and, in so doing, potentially damage the finish. I've read
> that my next step should be to wet sand with a 400 grit, then hit it
> with an automotive polishing compound. Will this eliminate the
> 'problem', such as it is?
Let it cure for at least a month before wet sanding, or you'll
completely strip off the hardened skin. The gummy base
layer won't shine up with the finest sandpaper made.
> Frankly, I'm reluctant to take this last
> step because I just know I'll screw it up. The Helmsman seems a bit
> softer that most finishes (it supposedly can accommodate temperature
> expansion/contraction of the wood), so I don't know how it will take
> to this final step. How about a paste wax? Will these bits be eased
> off while buffing? Is a wax product good for a spar urethane finish
> or will I be creating other problems?
>
> Any other suggestions/recommendations?
Satin finish instead of gloss. Rub out with 0000 steel wool and wax
after full
cure. Until then, use coasters under the beer, sheets of butcher
paper under
the pretzel bowl if you absolutely can't wait to use the bar.
Tanus
> On Apr 23, 7:49 am, Mike <ls1m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've finished putting the final coat of Helmsman on my bar >top and it looks absolutely stunning!
>
> SNIP
>
>> Any other suggestions/recommendations?
>
> Congrats on the new top!
>
I don't know much about finishes, so
I'll just pat you on the back and tell
you that I envy you at your stage with
your first real project.
I'm sure you did a great job, and we'd
love to see pics.
Tanus
--
This is not really a sig.
Mike Hartigan
father...@yahoo.com says...
> On Apr 23, 8:49 am, Mike <ls1m...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've finished putting the final coat of Helmsman on my bar top and it
> > looks absolutely stunning! (this is my first 'serious' project, so
> > excuse me if I seem to be more than just a little proud!). After
> > reading various posts and websites, I thinned the first coat 1:1 with
> > mineral spirits, then put the remaining three coats on full strength,
> > sanding lightly with a 220 grit before each coat. The finish is now
> > like glass! However, there are occasional bits of something that
> > easily come off with a fingernail. I'm speculating that they're
> > bubbles - not too ugly, and they'll probably wear off in time.
>
> Skinover, maybe? That green spar varnish is like pudding.
> Since it cures by oxidation, the surface cures way faster than
> the base.
I noticed that it feels much different (less 'soft') after only a
week. I'm assumming that this is what I'm witnessing.
> This is worse with long oil (spar) varnishes. Try
> Behlen's Rockhard (or a similar short oil phenolic) next if you
> like varnish.
Well, the 'damage' is done, so to speak. But I'm happy with the
result, so life is good :). When you say "if you like varnish", do
you mean as opposed to a poly? My limited lifetime experience has
led me to think of the word 'varnish' as a generic term to refer to
any protective coating on wood.
> > My
> > concern is that people will not resist the temptation to remove them
> > for me and, in so doing, potentially damage the finish. I've read
> > that my next step should be to wet sand with a 400 grit, then hit it
> > with an automotive polishing compound. Will this eliminate the
> > 'problem', such as it is?
>
> Let it cure for at least a month before wet sanding, or you'll
> completely strip off the hardened skin. The gummy base
> layer won't shine up with the finest sandpaper made.
I've gotten that bit of advice from a number of people this week.
That was my reason for asking the question before blindly jumping to
that step. (Thank God for usenet!)
> > Frankly, I'm reluctant to take this last
> > step because I just know I'll screw it up. The Helmsman seems a bit
> > softer that most finishes (it supposedly can accommodate temperature
> > expansion/contraction of the wood), so I don't know how it will take
> > to this final step. How about a paste wax? Will these bits be eased
> > off while buffing? Is a wax product good for a spar urethane finish
> > or will I be creating other problems?
> >
> > Any other suggestions/recommendations?
>
> Satin finish instead of gloss. Rub out with 0000 steel wool and wax
> after full
> cure.
Would that have given me the gaudy gloss that I wanted? My wife made
the observation that "It looks like an old VFW bar". I took that as
a high compliment, though I'm not sure that that's how she intended
it. I even considered adding some multi-layer finish scratches and a
few cigarette burns to dress it up a bit, but then I thought that
that might be just a bit over the top. Plus, without the heavy stale
beer and smoke aromas, it would seem like only a half-a$$ed effort,
so I chose to leave it looking like something new. Actually, the
simulated damage was originally an idea that I cooked up to mask the
expected rustic appearance of my first project. As it turned out,
there's nothing rustic to be found, so I left these touches out.
Would the spar benefit from the steel wool/wax step - after the
requisite cure time? Or should I just leave well enough alone? What
about periodic maintenance to the finish?
> Until then, use coasters under the beer, sheets of butcher
> paper under
> the pretzel bowl if you absolutely can't wait to use the bar.
Indeed, I absolutely can't wait to use it! However, I've got other
things to finish up before it's working, so it'll have some time to
cure before I put it into actual use. I hope to finish the
plumbing/electrical work this weekend, kegs/taps/lines have been
ordered, I'm picking up a chest freezer and a 50 lb CO2 tank next
week. Then I start researching yeasts, malts, and hops. (I'm really
going to miss my family!)
dadiOH
> When you say "if you like varnish", do
> you mean as opposed to a poly? My limited lifetime experience has
> led me to think of the word 'varnish' as a generic term to refer to
> any protective coating on wood.
Varnish consists of a resin, oil and a vehicle.
There are many different resins, some dating from antiquity...damar,
alkyd, urethane et al. Oil is usually linseed. Vehicle is normally
paint thinner or mineral spirits nowadays.
Lacquer is also a clear, protective coating but contains no oil and
the vehicle is lacquer thinner into which is dissolved nitrocelluose.
Could be other plastics. The big advantage is rapid drying.
A third is shellac which is a secretion from an insect dissolved in
alcohol after it has been refined. It too dries rapidly.
____________________
>> Satin finish instead of gloss. Rub out with 0000 steel wool and
>> wax after full
>> cure.
>
> Would that have given me the gaudy gloss that I wanted?
No. You *could* achieve a high gloss by rubbing out with still finer
materials such as rottenstone after fine pumice but the resultant
finish is like a piano rather than the gaudy gloss with which you are
enamoured :)
_____________________
> Would the spar benefit from the steel wool/wax step - after the
> requisite cure time?
Only if you want a finish that has more of a soft glow instead of a
brilliant shine.
Mike
Id like to apply a very thick coat 1" in areas what would be the best method??
--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/final-coat-of-spar-urethane-on-my-bar-top-now-what-375998-.htm
Unknown
news:9938f$5748f7e1$cf3aab60$10...@news.flashnewsgroups.com:
> replying to nailshooter41, Mike wrote:
> Id like to apply a very thick coat 1" in areas what would be the best
> method??
>
you're probably better off looking at glass or acrylic (lexan) or some
other clear material.
Btw, this is an old thread. You're welcome to start a new one and lay out
the specifics of what you're trying to do. Homeowner's Hub is actually
rehosting content, most of us are actually using Usenet readers.
Puckdropper
J. Clarke
caedfaa9ed1216d60e...@example.com says...
> replying to nailshooter41, Mike wrote:
> Id like to apply a very thick coat 1" in areas what would be the best method??
want a purpose made epoxy bar finish.
Startrek55
Don't do it
--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/final-coat-of-spar-urethane-on-my-bar-top-now-what-375998-.htm
Big B
Wood working and making beer
That's how I roll, kegging is the only way to go, bottling, filling & cleaning
them will seriously cut it to your woodworking time.