Cleaning 'real' knotty pine paneling
thermo102
asked if I knew of a good way to clean or brighten up the paneling in her
kitchen and dining room. It just looked too darned good to give her an
off-the-wall answer. (read as I didn't have a clue)
The house was built approximately 1965 and I'm sure she has used lots of TLC
because the paneling looks great, but I'm sure it has darkened considerably
over the years. Because of waxing, cooking, or cigarette smoke I've no
idea. I suspect all of the above, and maybe more.
We are planning another trip 'back east' this year and I thought it would
be nice when we drop in to see her to have an answer to her question.
The only thing I can think of offhand is TSP. Any hints or suggestions
would be greatly appreciated!
Thermo
David Nebenzahl
> While visiting my sister-in-law in Suffolk, Va. a couple years ago, she
> asked if I knew of a good way to clean or brighten up the paneling in her
> kitchen and dining room. It just looked too darned good to give her an
> off-the-wall answer. (read as I didn't have a clue)
>
> The house was built approximately 1965 and I'm sure she has used lots of TLC
> because the paneling looks great, but I'm sure it has darkened considerably
> over the years. Because of waxing, cooking, or cigarette smoke I've no
> idea. I suspect all of the above, and maybe more.
>
> The only thing I can think of offhand is TSP. Any hints or suggestions
> would be greatly appreciated!
TSP is a really good cleaner, but unfortunately it will probably
de-gloss whatever finish is on the paneling (I'm assuming the paneling
is either varnished or lacquered and not just raw wood). This would be
OK if you were planning on putting more finish on it, but otherwise it
probably wouldn't be a good choice. I'd try to find something a little
less aggressive, like probably any good household cleaner. (My own
favorite is Simple Green, which can be used on just about anything and
can be mixed in various dilutions depending on how bad the dirt is.)
To get off things like sticky grease that may have accumulated over the
years, you may need some kind of petroleum solvent, like naphtha,
mineral spirits, paint thinner (thinner, not stripper!), etc. Can be
used when you can open up doors and windows to air out the room.
By the way, none of this is going to affect the darkening of the
paneling. That's due to darkening of both the wood and the finish over
it, and cleaning it isn't going to lighten it.
--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.
- a Usenet "apology"
Artemus
"thermo102" <ther...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:25_jn.21809$cp7....@newsfe23.iad...
you say "real" knotty pine paneling I'm assuming you don't mean plywood.
TSP is a good start and it may take several applications to remove 45 years
of kitchen grime. Use plenty of elbow grease and don't worry about damaging
the wood as it isn't just a few thousandths of an inch veneer. Be aware that
TSP will likely dull the finish.
I don't remember polyurethane being available back then so your finish is likely
to be lacquer (Deft was readily available) or varnish. If you have to strip the
finish, lacquer can be removed with lacquer thinner and a cloth. If it's
varnish
you will probably have to use a commercial stripper. The usual precautions
apply.
If you are expecting to get the appearance to look like it was when new you
will have to sand or plane the surface of the boards to remove all traces of
the finish and the oxidized wood surface.
Art
John Grossbohlin
Wood Preen may do the job... I used to use it to clean floors, chair arms,
etc., that tended to get dirty and need waxing too. It will remove the
existing dirty wax. If the surface is really built up and dirty it might
take a bit of rubbing to keep it wet long enough for the cleaners to work
....
http://www.amazon.com/SaraLee-Kiwi-511000-Preen-Cleaner/dp/B000ATUKBA
John
Lew Hodgett
-------------------------------------
Some questions.
How "clean" is "clean"?
1) Do you want to take this back to bare wood?
2) Do you only want to get the grease and the smoke of 45 years off
the finish?
3) Do you want to keep the change in color of the wood that has
developed over the last 45 years?
TSP and lots of elbow grease will accomplish #2 above; however, in the
process you may find the finish needs to be redone which opens up
another can of worms.
TSP will also allow #3 above.
Questions, questions.
What is the over all game plan?
What ever is done, it is going to be a lot of work.
Lew
joelj...@aol.com
> .... she asked if I knew of a good way to clean or brighten up the paneling in her
> kitchen and dining room. ....
>
> .... it has darkened considerably over the years. Because of waxing, cooking, or cigarette smoke I've no
> idea. I suspect all of the above, and maybe more.
> The only thing I can think of offhand is TSP.
I would not use TSP - it, essentially, dissolves oils.
First, try the least aggressive method. I recommend Murphy's Oil Soap:
http://www.colgate.com/MurphyOilSoap/products/original-formula
We've been using this for a long time.
Robert Bonomi
the REAL TSP (Tri-Sodium-Phosphate) will do the trick. It will likely
have an adverse affect on whatever finish is on the wood, however.
First thing I'd try is one of the 'citrus' cleaners, like "Simple Green".
These are amazingly effective against lots grime and accumulated gunge..
My preferred 'next stage' weapons are difficult to locate these days.
Second is powdered "ethoxylated alcohol". There used to be a product
available regionally (upper Mid-West) called "Perfex", that listed this
compound as the only ingredient. White 'powder' -- actually 'slivers',
about 1/4" long. Dissolve in water and 'go'. Good for cleaning *anything*,
with only slight differences in the strength of the solution. Worked a *lot*
better the hotter the water. Safe for bare-hands use at any rational
concentration (as long as you could tolerate the temperature) -- the solution
feels 'slick' (alkaline) -- chemistry research says it's a high-grade
"surfactant"; aka wetting agent. (One caveat: Do -not- use at high strengths
on enamel paints, it will cause the paint to chalk continually!! There's a
story *still* told in our family about how somebody did that to a painted picnic
table, circa _60_ years ago. Got all the bird sh*t off (it had lived under a
big tree), but 'left it's mark' on everybody that sat on the benches, _days_
later :)
History: Invented in Shenandoah Iowa, during WWII as an alternate to phosphate-
based cleaners, as phosphate was a strategic war material for building explosives.
Acquired by Tidy House Corp., who was subsequently acquired by the maker of Air
Wick Air fresheners, who pulled the product off the market.
Rumor mill has it that 'somebody' in Shenandoah, IA is making the product again,
but I've had no luck finding a name or reference -- I''m no longer in the
territory.
[Note: if I had a source to recommend, an ethoxylated alcohol powder would by
my _first_ recommendation! But, I don't, so I suggested something 'obtainable'
first. <wry grin> ]
Thirdly, there's a petroleum-jelly based product -- sold in a "big" tooth-paste-
like tube, called "Off!" (yes, it even looks similar to the insect spray logo).
This is a degreaser, sold for getting oil-based stains out of laundry, but
works wonders on other oil-based problems. As good, if not better, than 'Goo
Gone' for cleaning oil-dirtied hands, for example.
About the only thing I've run into that one of those three items wouldn't
take off was dried on oil-based wiping stain on my hands. For -that-, a
_Brillo_ pad was _the_ weapon of choice. didn't take much scrubbing, seems
like it was mostly the soap in the pad. Note: Other brands did _not_ work
nearly the same. I found _that_ out the hard way. *ONCE*!!
Swingman
> The house was built approximately 1965 and I'm sure she has used lots of TLC
> because the paneling looks great, but I'm sure it has darkened considerably
> over the years. Because of waxing, cooking, or cigarette smoke I've no
> idea. I suspect all of the above, and maybe more.
My old house had the same pine paneling and here's what I did:
Use any all purpose household cleaner that contains "orange oil". Put
damp sponge in microwave for 30 to 40 seconds, apply cleaner to paneling
with hot sponge. For tough areas leave cleaner on for a minute or so.
Rinse sponge, reheat sponge, repeat.
You will want to wear gloves with the hot sponge.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Kate
First NO SCOTCH BRITE OR STEEL WOOL. They will scratch, and you'll be sorry.
As mentioned above, Murphys Oil Soap.
Great for cleaning wood, will not damage the finish or your hands.
Use a bucket of hot water with a good glug or three of the cleaner in the
water and scrub with a microfiber towel. The microfiber towels are great for
cleaning. Something about them has a little more grip than terry cloth when
it comes to crud. Sams has/had a big pack of them for around $10 awhile
back. Harbor freight has them too. If you shop around you can find them
pretty cheap.
For areas that have buildup of grime on them, apply some to the rag full
strength and let it sit for a little while.
If that doesn't get the crud off, get some Greased Lightning. (Home Depot,
Wally World)
That stuff will clean anything. I've never had it damage a finish yet but I
haven't used it on a varnished surface. Test on an inconspicious area first.
Sometimes cooking grease will soften a finish or paint making it gooey.
If that's the case, it's going to be a huge project having to strip the
finish off and refinish it.
The wood and finish may have darkend with age. No way to reverse that
without a complete refinish.
Nicotine will stain too. No way to remove the stain without refinishing but
what is on the surface can be cleaned up to make a big difference..
Kate
David Nebenzahl
> Ok boys... schooch over and let a woman do the cleaning.
>
> First NO SCOTCH BRITE OR STEEL WOOL. They will scratch, and you'll be sorry.
>
> As mentioned above, Murphys Oil Soap.
> Great for cleaning wood, will not damage the finish or your hands.
[snip]
You know, I'm ready to get on board with all your suggestions except for
the one about Murphy's.
What the hell *is* this stuff, anyhow? It seems to have an almost
cult-ish following, but it's not clear at all what it actually is. Is it
soap made from oil? Does it contain oil?
I've used Murphy's, and it seems like mediocre soap at best. Certainly
no better than my preference, which is Simple Green. Or really any soap
for that matter. In my experience, the type of soap doesn't really
matter: it's pretty much all the same stuff, whether it's dish
detergent, hand soap, or whatever the most highly-marketed stuff in a
spray bottle (409, Mr. Clean, etc., etc.) happens to be.
Speaking of cult soaps, does anyone else here remember Fels Naphtha
soap? I remember my mom using this stuff, which was some of the
worst-smelling soap I've ever been around. Do they still make this stuff?
(Huh, whaddya know: it looks like it's still being made.)
David Nebenzahl
> Speaking of cult soaps, does anyone else here remember Fels Naphtha
> soap? I remember my mom using this stuff, which was some of the
> worst-smelling soap I've ever been around. Do they still make this stuff?
Still being made: http://www.felsnaptha.com (and I misspelled it,
although really *they* misspelled "naphtha", although it doesn't contain
any of that stuff ...)
Ingredients:
Soap (sodium tallowate*, sodium cocoate* (or) sodium palmate
kernelate*, and sodium palmate*), water, talc, cocnut acid*, palm acid*,
tallow acid*, PEG-6 methyl ether, glycerin, sorbitol, sodium chloride,
pentasodium pentetate and/or tetrasodium etidronate, titatium dioxide,
fragrance, Acid Orange (CI 20170), Acid yellow 73 (ci43350)
*contains one or more of these ingredients
Lew Hodgett
"David Nebenzahl" wrote:
> Speaking of cult soaps, does anyone else here remember Fels Naphtha
> soap?
--------------------------------------
Yep. Like you, my mom used it for "the tough jobs".
Lew
Lee Michaels
"Lew Hodgett" wrote
>
> "David Nebenzahl" wrote:
>
>> Speaking of cult soaps, does anyone else here remember Fels Naphtha soap?
> --------------------------------------
> Yep. Like you, my mom used it for "the tough jobs".
>
over from frontier medicine or not. I knew several people with skin diseases
that had to use Fels Naphtha soap with various other topical treatments.
I remember this stuff. My grandmother used it. It burned. Not for tender
skin.
Father Haskell
> On 3/4/2010 6:34 PM thermo102 spake thus:
>
> > While visiting my sister-in-law in Suffolk, Va. a couple years ago, she
> > asked if I knew of a good way to clean or brighten up the paneling in her
> > kitchen and dining room. It just looked too darned good to give her an
> > off-the-wall answer. (read as I didn't have a clue)
>
> > The house was built approximately 1965 and I'm sure she has used lots of TLC
> > because the paneling looks great, but I'm sure it has darkened considerably
> > over the years. Because of waxing, cooking, or cigarette smoke I've no
> > idea. I suspect all of the above, and maybe more.
>
> > The only thing I can think of offhand is TSP. Any hints or suggestions
> > would be greatly appreciated!
>
> TSP is a really good cleaner, but unfortunately it will probably
> de-gloss whatever finish is on the paneling (I'm assuming the paneling
> is either varnished or lacquered and not just raw wood).
For knotty pine, the finish is almost certainly orange shellac.
Test with an alcohol-dampened rag.
> This would be
> OK if you were planning on putting more finish on it, but otherwise it
> probably wouldn't be a good choice. I'd try to find something a little
> less aggressive, like probably any good household cleaner. (My own
> favorite is Simple Green, which can be used on just about anything and
> can be mixed in various dilutions depending on how bad the dirt is.)
>
> To get off things like sticky grease that may have accumulated over the
> years, you may need some kind of petroleum solvent, like naphtha,
> mineral spirits, paint thinner (thinner, not stripper!), etc. Can be
> used when you can open up doors and windows to air out the room.
>
> By the way, none of this is going to affect the darkening of the
> paneling. That's due to darkening of both the wood and the finish over
> it, and cleaning it isn't going to lighten it.
Shellac won't darken. The shmutz is either wax or pollution,
probably cigarette smoke. Remove with detergent or petrol
solvent.
Larry Jaques
"joelj...@aol.com" <joelj...@aol.com> scrawled the following:
MOS is what I used to clean my 1939 naughty pine in the old house. It
lightened it considerably, probably by removing half the old oxidized
finish, all the dust, and a thick film of tobacco smoke. I resealed it
with blonde shellac after a week of drying.
--
An author spends months writing a book, and maybe puts his
heart's blood into it, and then it lies about unread till
the reader has nothing else in the world to do.
-- W. Somerset Maugham, The Razor's Edge, 1943
Kate
"David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote
I've used Murphy's, and it seems like mediocre soap at best. Certainly
----
I have to agree with you about it being mediocre, but it won't harm the
finish and that seems to be the issue.
Unllike you, I dislike Simple Green. I think it stinks - literally. I have
not had great luck with it for the several times I've tried it.
Folks have told me to use it for my engine compartment, vinyl tops, garage
clean up and like a big dope, I keep trying the stuff. I can get better
results with other products every time. It is a total fail in my book for
automotive use.
I guess I should add that in my past life, I did some detailing.
Now if ya'll want something that will REALLY clean, get ahold of your local
PRO distributor and get some C-49. It's an automotive interior/upholstery
cleaner that you buy in concentrate and diluted 5/1 is amazing for real
crud.
http://www.prowax.com/cleaners.shtml
I used it for years as a household cleaner. Works like nothing you ever saw
BUT it can be hard to find because not everyone has a PRO guy in the area.
Best replacement I have found for it is Greased Lightening. Works better
than Simple Green and doesn't have that *urp* smell.
Something else to try would be hot water and good old fashioned Dawn Dish
detergent. I'd still say Greased Lightening.
Phisherman
wrote:
TSP would be a good choice in preparation for painting, is that the
plan? Mineral spirits is usually a good solvent for cleaning wood,
because it will not cause the fibers to swell like a water-based
cleaner. Put a fan in a nearby window before you begin cleaning,
dispose of rags properly. My second choice would be Murphy's Oil
soap, but never soak the wood.
David Nebenzahl
> "David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote
>
>> I've used Murphy's, and it seems like mediocre soap at best. Certainly
>? no better than my preference, which is Simple Green.--
>
> I have to agree with you about it being mediocre, but it won't harm the
> finish and that seems to be the issue.
But neither will any other standard household cleaning product, except
for really strong and caustic ones like TSP.
> Unllike you, I dislike Simple Green. I think it stinks - literally. I have
> not had great luck with it for the several times I've tried it.
> Folks have told me to use it for my engine compartment, vinyl tops, garage
> clean up and like a big dope, I keep trying the stuff. I can get better
> results with other products every time. It is a total fail in my book for
> automotive use.
I agree about the smell: it's not disgusting, but not pleasant either.
(Ackshooly, even Pine-Sol smells better than Simple Green, and it ain't
no perfume either.) But I disagree about its cleaning power. As I said
earlier, you can mix the concentrate at any dilution you like. A strong
solution of Simple Green will cut just about any grease you can throw it at.
But it doesn't really matter in the end, because soap is pretty much
soap, chemically speaking.
David Nebenzahl
> On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 19:34:50 -0700, "thermo102" <ther...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> While visiting my sister-in-law in Suffolk, Va. a couple years ago,
>> she asked if I knew of a good way to clean or brighten up the
>> paneling in her kitchen and dining room. It just looked too darned
>> good to give her an off-the-wall answer. (read as I didn't have a
>> clue)
>
> TSP would be a good choice in preparation for painting, is that the
> plan?
How in the world do you get from the OP's post? They said they want to
"clean or brighten up the paneling", not paint it.
crysta...@gmail.com
Melissah
cleaning all the wood I polished it with old English lemon oil and it
looks beautiful.
--
Kathy
Mike Marlow
the nature of the dark streaks. We don't know what kind of sealant (think
varnish or some similar product here), has been applied to the knotty pine -
if any, or what the condition of that sealant may be. It is possible that
the stains penetrate down into the grain some amount, in which case a
cleaner may or may not work to remove them. It may be that the only way to
remove them is by sanding through them. I think you're faced with a
try-it-and-see approach.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net
dadiOH
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
innat1...@gmail.com
TSP is used as a de-glosser before repainting or refinishing old varnish/urethane, etc. I am getting ready to put a new finish on my tired knotty pine. Fortunately, mine is gorgeous except the finish has dulled over time. I am going to clean with TSP and then add a new coat of Urethane.
Hope this helps.
Unquestionably Confused
throughout. It was up forever and the fact that my mother smoked
cigarettes didn't help the finish...
Wash down with a cloth and Murphy's Oil Soap, a soft brush if necessary
and dry it.
Worked well.
kitty
Everybody stop! Go to the orange big box store and buy Zeb 505. This stuff is
amazing, removes grease off everything easily. Forget Simple Green and citrus
cleaners. I was amazed. I have a gallon in my garage right now.
--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/cleaning-real-knotty-pine-paneling-494441-.htm
Leon
> replying to crystalroy82, kitty wrote:
> Everybody stop! Go to the orange big box store and buy Zeb 505. This
> stuff is
> amazing, removes grease off everything easily. Forget Simple Green and
> citrus
> cleaners. I was amazed. I have a gallon in my garage right now.
>
Get it out of there right now, this should NEVER be stored in your
garage right now.
glancey...@gmail.com
> While visiting my sister-in-law in Suffolk, Va. a couple years ago, she
> asked if I knew of a good way to clean or brighten up the paneling in her
> kitchen and dining room. It just looked too darned good to give her an
> off-the-wall answer. (read as I didn't have a clue)
>
glancey...@gmail.com
glancey...@gmail.com
Pamela Hooper
I just bought a house with knotty pine walls thru the whole house can it bring
it back to the light color it was there is one spot that is clean clear and
light
--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/cleaning-real-knotty-pine-paneling-494441-.htm
Pamela Hooper
I am going to try what you did the dollar store brand right I hope it works.
And it will bring back the look of a place a round Morris hung it is light the
rest of the walls are dark.
Anna
I have real knotted pine 1962 - MURPHYS OIL SOAP - if some grease build up,
add a little dawn to it with HOT WATER. Don't drown the wall just a wet wipe.
It's finish is is LINSEED OIL which can be purchased at just about every
hardware store. Brush it in, let it dry. It takes time for the wood to suck up
the linseed oil. It will be tacky for a couple days to a week but will harden
to it's shine high gloss. Hope this helps you.
John Wiedmann
I'm entering this conversation about seven after it was posted. Hopefully
someone is out there who can advise. We have a "real" knotty pine paneled
den, built by me I n 1985. It was finished with urethane. It has not been
subjected to cigarette smoke, and the kitchen, although adjacent via a
doorway, has an exhaust fan that gets rid of cooking fumes pretty well. The
paneling has yellowed over the last 32 years. Some individual panels are
remarkably darker than panels immediately adjacent on either side. It is not
clear why this is the case - but it is. I've read about five or six different
cleaning products to use, so it appears a few trial tests in inconspicuous
areas will determine which is most effective. My goal is to lighten the wood
and then refinish it again with either a urethane or polyurethane. Question:
how does one effectively deal with the grooves? Could (should?) they be
cleaned (with whatever product is chosen) with a softish nylon bristle brush?
Also, has anyone used such a scrub brush to apply the elbow grease for this
type of project (flat surfaces as well as grooves)?
Ed Pawlowski
and the top layer of the wood that has oxidized over the years. It may
go through to the point lightening will be minimal.
You can try wood bleach but to do an entire room bould not be too easy.
I'd paint it before doing that method.
http://www.woodmagazine.com/materials-guide/finishes/get-the-color-out-with-wood-bleach
C. Gravley
Thanks liked your answer best, inherited parents home built in 1960. I think
everybody smoked back then! The knotty pine is in the kitchen and dining room.
Everyone that came sat at the bar between kitchen and dining room drinking
coffee and smoking while mom was constantly cooking . We decided to keep the
home place so we are working in the kitchen. Decided to take a break and see
if someone could give me some ideas. I'm using Mur. Oil soap. I will go to
Walmart see what they have, thanks
John Grossbohlin
Wow... here's a thread that just doesn't die! LOL
>"C. Gravley" wrote in message news:6ephB.492482$fp7.1...@fx39.am4...
Ladryden
Thank you. Yours was the best advise because I was looking NOT to strip the
oils finish that I just put on following a TSP strip and rinse. I never wanted
to have to do all that work again.
But husband nearly burned down the house AGAIN and the stink from it is on
top of my new oil finish!!! So I didn’t want to redo the oil job, only
clean off the new stank.
I’ll give your advice a try.
Ladryden
Nope, all soap not the same, Dawn will strip wax off a car but most car wash
soap will not.
So I wouldn’t use Dawn on my knotty pine walls unless I was trying to strip
them down.
Oil soap will clean without stripping the last finish.
Larry
Fels Naphtha soap? Wow, I haven't even heard of that since i was a young kid.
(Late 40's) Dad hung an old shower with a circular curtain rail over a floor
drain in our basement. As it was next to moms washing machine (wringer type)
we kids used Fels Naphtha as our shower soap. We all lived so I guess it
didn't hurt us, but we were the cleanest kids on the block!!
ads
<caedfaa9ed1216d60ef...@example.com> wrote:
>replying to David Nebenzahl, Larry wrote:
>Fels Naphtha soap? Wow, I haven't even heard of that since i was a young kid.
> (Late 40's) Dad hung an old shower with a circular curtain rail over a floor
>drain in our basement. As it was next to moms washing machine (wringer type)
>we kids used Fels Naphtha as our shower soap. We all lived so I guess it
>didn't hurt us, but we were the cleanest kids on the block!!
https://www.lehmans.com/product/fels-naptha-laundry-soap/
bnw...@gmail.com
John McGaw
not for everyone.
But if you are driving (your buggy?) through Amish country in Ohio it is
worth spending a few hours at Lehman's. And then go down to Heini's Cheese
Chalet for something to snack on...