Backing for Mirror

[Keith Nuttle]

We are planning on putting a mirror to cover the TV hole above our
fireplace. The plan is to remove minimal trim, place shims on the sides
of the existing opening so the mirror is flush with the back edge of the
mantel and the existing trim.

I plan on cutting this backing board so it would fit into the opening,
and holding it in with quarter round or similar.

What would be best for this backing board. MDF, plywood, etc.

Should the mirror be bonded to the backer board. If so how?

I plan to remove the electrical plug, put wire nuts on each wire and
wrap the ends in tape. I am going to do nothing with the phone and
cable jacks that are there.

Any comments.


Thanks.

[-MIKE-]

On 10/22/12 10:32 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> We are planning on putting a mirror to cover the TV hole above our
> fireplace. The plan is to remove minimal trim, place shims on the sides
> of the existing opening so the mirror is flush with the back edge of the
> mantel and the existing trim.
>
> I plan on cutting this backing board so it would fit into the opening,
> and holding it in with quarter round or similar.
>
> What would be best for this backing board. MDF, plywood, etc.
>
> Should the mirror be bonded to the backer board. If so how?
>

A structural backer is a good idea just to prevent to possibility of a
person or part of a person going through it. Bonding with mirror
adhesive or contact cement is also a good idea to prevent glass from
falling all over the place if the mirror were to be broken in any way.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[dadiOH]

Keith Nuttle wrote:
> We are planning on putting a mirror to cover the TV hole above our
> fireplace. The plan is to remove minimal trim, place shims on the
> sides of the existing opening so the mirror is flush with the back
> edge of the mantel and the existing trim.
>
> I plan on cutting this backing board so it would fit into the opening,
> and holding it in with quarter round or similar.
>
> What would be best for this backing board. MDF, plywood, etc.

Whatever as long as it is reasonably rigid. I used to have a condo with 12'
of floor to ceiling mirrors on the wall (which was drywall).

> Should the mirror be bonded to the backer board. If so how?

I would use the black goop that mirror people use for that purpose.
Actually, I imagine most any would work...silicone, acrylic, Liquid Nails,
linoleum paste, etc. Just assure that it is something that won't damage the
silvering.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[Keith Nuttle]

On 10/22/2012 1:30 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> We are planning on putting a mirror to cover the TV hole above our
>> fireplace. The plan is to remove minimal trim, place shims on the
>> sides of the existing opening so the mirror is flush with the back
>> edge of the mantel and the existing trim.
>>
>> I plan on cutting this backing board so it would fit into the opening,
>> and holding it in with quarter round or similar.
>>
>> What would be best for this backing board. MDF, plywood, etc.
>
> Whatever as long as it is reasonably rigid. I used to have a condo with 12'
> of floor to ceiling mirrors on the wall (which was drywall).
>
>> Should the mirror be bonded to the backer board. If so how?
>
> I would use the black goop that mirror people use for that purpose.
> Actually, I imagine most any would work...silicone, acrylic, Liquid Nails,
> linoleum paste, etc. Just assure that it is something that won't damage the
> silvering.
>

My concern is the length of the hole. I planned to put in the backer
board only, with no studs in the 41" length. The plan is to make it
removal IF there is ever a need to access the area behind it.

My thinking is at minimum a 3/8 piece of plywood but am unsure if that
is adequate.'

Thank to all who have responded so far. It looks like my wife is going
to get her wish, to have it in for a family get together in mid December.

I know but I am slow and like to thoroughly think things through.

[Mike Marlow]

Keith Nuttle wrote:

> I plan to remove the electrical plug, put wire nuts on each wire and
> wrap the ends in tape. I am going to do nothing with the phone and
> cable jacks that are there.
>

Twist the wire nuts on, making sure that there is no exposed wire. You can
even cut the ends of the wire back to the insulation before twisting on the
nuts. There is no need to wrap it in electrical tape. That is something
that works more in the minds of the person doing it, than it really does in
reality.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[-MIKE-]

At 41inches, 3/4" mdf or 7 or more ply plywood would be plenty stiff
enough.
You're right about the 3/8, too flimsy, although it would accomplish the
goal hold holding mirror together if something were to run into it...
and you could always screw some sort of frame to back of it.

But 3/4 mdf is pretty cheap and so is non-sanded 3/4 plywood.

[-MIKE-]

Mike, have you not found that the wire nuts hold on to metal better than
the insulation? At least in my experience, when I've left even just an
eighth or quarter inch of wire for the nut to grab, it's held much
better than when grabbing just the insulation.

The only reason I know this is having recently put temporary wire nuts
on romex for our remodel. The ones that were on insulation only almost
fell off with an untwist or two. The ones on bare wire had to be
untwisted at least a couple full turns before they could be pulled off.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:22:34 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
wrote:

>On 10/22/12 10:32 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> We are planning on putting a mirror to cover the TV hole above our
>> fireplace. The plan is to remove minimal trim, place shims on the sides
>> of the existing opening so the mirror is flush with the back edge of the
>> mantel and the existing trim.
>>
>> I plan on cutting this backing board so it would fit into the opening,
>> and holding it in with quarter round or similar.
>>
>> What would be best for this backing board. MDF, plywood, etc.
>>
>> Should the mirror be bonded to the backer board. If so how?
>>
>
>A structural backer is a good idea just to prevent to possibility of a
>person or part of a person going through it. Bonding with mirror
>adhesive or contact cement is also a good idea to prevent glass from
>falling all over the place if the mirror were to be broken in any way.

The only problem with gluing the mirror to the backboard is the very
REAL possibility that the glue will pull the silvering off the back of
the mirror. How are you intending to mount the mirror? Is it in a
frame, or will you use mirror brackets?

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

3/8 or 1/2 ply would be plenty, even over 41 inches of width if it is
supported top and bottom a well as both sides - it's only, wat - 32
inches high??

[Sonny]

Put some temporary studs behind your ply board, if your concern about stability still exists. At minimum, just wedging them (top or bottom) snuggly/tightly in place should work fine, for preventing someone from accidently pushing the mirror back into the recess, if that is the concern.

Sonny

[-MIKE-]

Not a problem...
http://www.liquidnails.com/products/product.jsp?productId=39

[Larry Jaques]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:32:10 -0400, Keith Nuttle
<Keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>We are planning on putting a mirror to cover the TV hole above our
>fireplace. The plan is to remove minimal trim, place shims on the sides
>of the existing opening so the mirror is flush with the back edge of the
>mantel and the existing trim.
>
>I plan on cutting this backing board so it would fit into the opening,
>and holding it in with quarter round or similar.
>
>What would be best for this backing board. MDF, plywood, etc.

Thick ply. Hinge it on one side, fireproof it, and make a secret
storage area behind the mirror.

>Should the mirror be bonded to the backer board. If so how?

How about screwing the mirror to it from the back through the ply to
the mirror frame?

>I plan to remove the electrical plug, put wire nuts on each wire and
>wrap the ends in tape. I am going to do nothing with the phone and
>cable jacks that are there.
>
>Any comments.

Ssh! Don't tell anyone about the secret storage space. ;)

--
They must find it difficult,
those who have taken authority as truth,
rather than truth as authority.
-- Gerald Massey, Egyptologist

[Keith Nuttle]

The plan is to put it on the backer board with the "glue" that I plan to
buy from the same company that I am buying the mirror.

I am buying the mirror to be a quarter of an inch shorter than the
actual width of the opening. The backer board will be the same size as
the mirror.

There is a quarter inch lip at the mantel. As I said earlier I will put
shims on the exiting casing so the mirror is the width of the quarter
round from the front of the casing. I will then hold the whole thing
against the shims with quarter round or similar molding. The depth from
the front of the casing will be a determine on esthetics.

[Leon]

On 10/22/2012 10:32 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> We are planning on putting a mirror to cover the TV hole above our
> fireplace. The plan is to remove minimal trim, place shims on the sides
> of the existing opening so the mirror is flush with the back edge of the
> mantel and the existing trim.
>
> I plan on cutting this backing board so it would fit into the opening,
> and holding it in with quarter round or similar.
>
> What would be best for this backing board. MDF, plywood, etc.

Plywood would be the most resistant to something penetrating.

>
> Should the mirror be bonded to the backer board. If so how?

Not necessarily, I would not, see below.

> I plan to remove the electrical plug, put wire nuts on each wire and
> wrap the ends in tape. I am going to do nothing with the phone and
> cable jacks that are there.
>
> Any comments.
>
>
> Thanks.

What ever you do be very careful in choosing your bonding agent. Many
adhesives and IIRC silicone base adhesives will quickly deteriorate the
mirror reflective material. Go to your local glass store and ask what
to use.

[Leon]

On 10/22/2012 12:30 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> We are planning on putting a mirror to cover the TV hole above our
>> fireplace. The plan is to remove minimal trim, place shims on the
>> sides of the existing opening so the mirror is flush with the back
>> edge of the mantel and the existing trim.
>>
>> I plan on cutting this backing board so it would fit into the opening,
>> and holding it in with quarter round or similar.
>>
>> What would be best for this backing board. MDF, plywood, etc.
>
> Whatever as long as it is reasonably rigid. I used to have a condo with 12'
> of floor to ceiling mirrors on the wall (which was drywall).
>
>> Should the mirror be bonded to the backer board. If so how?
>
> I would use the black goop that mirror people use for that purpose.
> Actually, I imagine most any would work...silicone, acrylic, Liquid Nails,
> linoleum paste, etc. Just assure that it is something that won't damage the
> silvering.
>

NO! Actually many adhesives will react with the mirror coating. You
want the correct adhesive.

[Mike Marlow]

-MIKE- wrote:

>
> Mike, have you not found that the wire nuts hold on to metal better
> than the insulation? At least in my experience, when I've left even
> just an eighth or quarter inch of wire for the nut to grab, it's held
> much better than when grabbing just the insulation.

Yes, but I've never had them come off, so that's why I suggested it to him.


--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Jim Weisgram]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:32:10 -0400, Keith Nuttle
<Keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Those abandoned electric wires would still be connected, so the hot
wire remains hot? I believe that's a potential future fire hazard,
wire nuts and electrical tape or not. I am thinking rodents and teeth
when I say that.

I suspect code would require a junction box with a cover that provides
access to the wire ends, but I am not an electrician and I haven't
bothered to check the code.

[-MIKE-]

On 10/24/12 8:15 PM, Jim Weisgram wrote:
> Those abandoned electric wires would still be connected, so the hot
> wire remains hot? I believe that's a potential future fire hazard,
> wire nuts and electrical tape or not. I am thinking rodents and teeth
> when I say that.
>

How is that different from any other romex running through the walls?

> I suspect code would require a junction box with a cover that provides
> access to the wire ends, but I am not an electrician and I haven't
> bothered to check the code.
>

That is probably true.

[Dave]

On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 23:19:39 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>

>> I suspect code would require a junction box with a cover that provides
>> access to the wire ends, but I am not an electrician and I haven't
>> bothered to check the code.

And, with my limited understanding of electrical code, I believe there
also needs to be easy access to that junction box. I'm not exactly
sure what makes up easy access.

[Mike Marlow]

Just access Dave. It can even be hidden behind a panel, as long as the
panel is removable.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Leon]

On 10/22/2012 10:32 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:

Is the electrical outlet in the way? If not why do anything at all with
it? What makes covering it up any different than putting a sofa in
front of a wall plug?

[Mike Marlow]

Leon wrote:

>
> Is the electrical outlet in the way? If not why do anything at all
> with it? What makes covering it up any different than putting a sofa
> in front of a wall plug?

Well, from strictly a husbandly point of view - putting a sofa in front of a
wall plug does offer the enjoyable view of the wife leaning over the back of
the sofa to plug something in. Oh wait... that's not what you were trying
to say...

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.netd

[Keith Nuttle]

As I said it is above the fireplace, too high to have to bend over. ;-)



As I remember there was a big discussion on this group(?) about closing
in plugs a few months ago, and I was just checking if there had been any
changes. As I understood from a practical point of view there was no
problem, but there may be a problem with local regulations.

[-MIKE-]

A Sawzall? :-)

[Mike Marlow]

Keith Nuttle wrote:
> On 10/25/2012 9:55 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Is the electrical outlet in the way? If not why do anything at all
>>> with it? What makes covering it up any different than putting a
>>> sofa in front of a wall plug?
>>
>> Well, from strictly a husbandly point of view - putting a sofa in
>> front of a wall plug does offer the enjoyable view of the wife
>> leaning over the back of the sofa to plug something in. Oh wait...
>> that's not what you were trying to say...
>>
>
> As I said it is above the fireplace, too high to have to bend over.
> ;-)

Well... there's always that other view - reaching up really, really high...

>
>
> As I remember there was a big discussion on this group(?) about
> closing in plugs a few months ago, and I was just checking if there
> had been any changes. As I understood from a practical point of
> view there was no problem, but there may be a problem with local
> regulations.

Depends on how you mean that. NEC requires that any junction box remain
accessable. It can be covered over by a removable panel but it can't be
enclosed in a sheet rock wall for example. If this is a permanant change,
then you might consider cutting the feed to that outlet at its source, and
then just patching the hole in the wall where it used to be. If that's not
necessary for your plans, then just remove the outlet, wire nut the wires,
and cover it with a box cover. Or... as Leon suggested, just leave the
outlet in place and put your mirror over it.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Mike Marlow]

-MIKE- wrote:
> On 10/25/12 4:51 AM, Dave wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 23:19:39 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
>>>> I suspect code would require a junction box with a cover that
>>>> provides access to the wire ends, but I am not an electrician and
>>>> I haven't bothered to check the code.
>>
>> And, with my limited understanding of electrical code, I believe
>> there also needs to be easy access to that junction box. I'm not
>> exactly sure what makes up easy access.
>>
>
> A Sawzall? :-)

6lb Sledge Hammer?

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[-MIKE-]

6!? I thought you were a man!

[Mike Marlow]

-MIKE- wrote:
> On 10/25/12 11:36 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 10/25/12 4:51 AM, Dave wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 23:19:39 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
>>>>>> I suspect code would require a junction box with a cover that
>>>>>> provides access to the wire ends, but I am not an electrician and
>>>>>> I haven't bothered to check the code.
>>>>
>>>> And, with my limited understanding of electrical code, I believe
>>>> there also needs to be easy access to that junction box. I'm not
>>>> exactly sure what makes up easy access.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A Sawzall? :-)
>>
>> 6lb Sledge Hammer?
>>
>
> 6!? I thought you were a man!

It's sheetrock man! I was trying to sound manly without over-doing it. Did
I mess up?

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Needs to be "accessible" Removeable panel makes it accessible. It
DOES need to be in an approved enclosure (box) - no live capped off
cables terminating in open air. So forget the wire-nuts and just
stich a receptacle on it.

[Mike Marlow]

Well - if there is an outlet in place already, there is most likely a box
there as well. All he needs to do is to cap off the wires within the box
and cover it over.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Bill]

Mike Marlow wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 10/25/12 4:51 AM, Dave wrote:
>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 23:19:39 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
>>>>> I suspect code would require a junction box with a cover that
>>>>> provides access to the wire ends, but I am not an electrician and
>>>>> I haven't bothered to check the code.
>>>
>>> And, with my limited understanding of electrical code, I believe
>>> there also needs to be easy access to that junction box. I'm not
>>> exactly sure what makes up easy access.

I think you need to be able to see it (as in, you can't cover it up).
Of course, I'm not a pro.

[-MIKE-]

Just hoping you have one in each hand. :-)

Tangent... I take my time tearing off sheetrock. I find if you bounce the
walls a bit, you can get the nails/screws to pop, then pull them out and
take the sheets off the wall in bigger sections. You'd think it's
slower, but with all the extra clean-up that comes with bashing away at
it, it's a nicer job.

[Mike Marlow]

It can be covered over Bill, but it can't be sealed in. In other words, it
can be behind a removable panel, but not in a sheet rock wall.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Larry Jaques]

Screw an outlet strip w/ surge protector and circuit breaker down to
the bottom of the center box before attaching the back, then route its
pigtail out one of the bottom vent holes. Piece o' cake.

--
The ultimate result of shielding men from folly
is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer

[Bill]

Sorry. Yes, as already noted you need to be able to access it. You can
camouflage it but you'll still know it's there! :) I have a cousin who
needed to create one of those.

[k...@att.bizzz]

On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 00:07:33 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
wrote:

>On 10/25/12 12:48 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 10/25/12 11:36 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> On 10/25/12 4:51 AM, Dave wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 23:19:39 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
>>>>>>>> I suspect code would require a junction box with a cover that
>>>>>>>> provides access to the wire ends, but I am not an electrician and
>>>>>>>> I haven't bothered to check the code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And, with my limited understanding of electrical code, I believe
>>>>>> there also needs to be easy access to that junction box. I'm not
>>>>>> exactly sure what makes up easy access.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A Sawzall? :-)
>>>>
>>>> 6lb Sledge Hammer?
>>>>
>>>
>>> 6!? I thought you were a man!
>>
>> It's sheetrock man! I was trying to sound manly without over-doing it. Did
>> I mess up?
>>
>
>Just hoping you have one in each hand. :-)
>
>Tangent... I take my time tearing off sheetrock. I find if you bounce the
>walls a bit, you can get the nails/screws to pop, then pull them out and
>take the sheets off the wall in bigger sections. You'd think it's
>slower, but with all the extra clean-up that comes with bashing away at
>it, it's a nicer job.

Agreed. I cut the outline (if necessary) then try to find the
nails/crews and remove it in big pieces. I can then score and break
the waste where dust doesn't matter.