Bora centipede

[Bob Davis]

I am always on the lookout for easier/better ways to handle breakdown of full size sheets of plywood and MDF. I have an assembly table with drop down leaf extension that will hold it. I have a Festool tracksaw.

Using the assembly table means I have clear it off completely before getting started. I've considered the Paulk workbench. I just do not want to donate the space to store it.

So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.

Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?

Bob

[DerbyDad03]

How do you breakdown the sheets on the assembly table? i.e. How do you support the cut?

Isn't the Centipede just a bunch of "points"?

A full sheet of foam insulation might work, but a couple of 2' x 4's wouldn't, would they?

[k...@notreal.com]

I use solid core doors with MDF or melamine as sacrificial tops for
both my assembly and "cutting" tables. A door is a door, so they're
the same size. ;-)

For breaking down sheet goods, I do use 2x4s under the sheet. I have
something like five (I think I have some others somewhere) 5' 2x4s
that I place under the sheet. Two on each side of the cut and one
goes somewhere else (depending on the cut). I get the inner 2x4's as
close to the cut as possible. It works for me but I may switch to the
insulation method. It looks easier.

[Scott Lurndal]

If you have the room, nothing beats a panel saw for that application.

[DerbyDad03]

I guess if you opened the Centipede just right, you could balance the 2 x 4's
on the points. Good luck with that. Let us know how it works out. ;-)

[Scott Lurndal]

On the other hand, I have a pair of these:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/TOUGHBUILT-42-4-in-W-x-28-8-in-H-Steel-Sawhorse-and-Jobsite-Table-1100-lb-Capacity-TB-C550/205870368

The slots on either end hold a 2x4, which gives you quick
4' x 8' support for sheet goods - especially good for cross cutting if you
don't mind kerfs in the 2x4 supports.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:35:01 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

Sorry, I misunderstood you incorrectly. I thought you were talking
about cutting on 2x4s or insulation in general. There is an issue
with the sheet sagging but it can be mitigated.

I wasn't talking about the centipede. That looks a little like hokum
to me.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 21:00:14 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

I have those two, four of those and two of its bigger brother. I was
painting siding before putting it up a couple of years ago. I used
the 2x4 slots for 14' 2x4s to lay out all the pieces to dry.

Bora sells the same thing for five times the price. Nicer color
though.

[Bob Davis]

Those look really nice. I will stop by my home depot store and have a look. thanks for the idea.

[Leon]

On 2/22/2022 11:59 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> I am always on the lookout for easier/better ways to handle breakdown of full size sheets of plywood and MDF. I have an assembly table with drop down leaf extension that will hold it. I have a Festool tracksaw.
>
> Using the assembly table means I have clear it off completely before getting started. I've considered the Paulk workbench. I just do not want to donate the space to store it.
>
> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.

Soooo. I have the Paulk work bench, I modified the size to suite my needs.

This will address your question above and respond to the storage space.

Your assembly table remains filled because you do not have a place or
you choose to not clear it off after a job. We all know how that goes....

My Paulk work bench gets put away after every job. Therefore it doe not
have to be cleared off before use. That solves the issue of having to
clear it off to cut plywood.

Put away my 8' long by 40" wide bench has a foot print of 20" x 17".
2.36 square feet. That is both halves. The saw horses that hold it up
store fold flat and are 1" thick when folded up. I put both behind that
black tool box in the attached picture.

This is my assembly table, sanding table, cutting table, what ever needs
a bench table/bench.

When set up for use I can hop up on it and sit and it does not move or
creak. It holds my heaviest of projects including a full compliment of
clamps with no issue.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/51897050957/in/datetaken/

Someone on here, Derbydad,? has a centipede.

I prefer something that is stable and will not move when loading with
plywood and cutting with a track saw. I actually crawl up on top of it
all when making long cuts.

When I start project I load all of my plywood on top of the Pulk bench
straight off of my truck. Then I cut all the pieces, label them, and
stack on edge elsewhere. Then the wood surface is empty and ready to
handle all the tasks for assembly.

[Leon]

I used to use foam insulation but that got messy and it broke up. I use
3 narrow, 4" wide, 1/2" x 8' plywood strips between the layers of
plywood. When the top sheet is cut and removed I move the strips to
below the next/top sheet.

[Leon]

Insulation is sorta easier until it is worn out and breaks. I do
similar to you, 2x4s" except substitute 1/2 x 4" plywood. Very lite
weight and they are scraps from other projects.

[Leon]

Yes that takes room. Do yu have a panel saw? I once thought of
building one but after seeing them being used I wonder if the edge of
plywood gets torn up when ripping a sheet. Nothing is supporting the
upper section of the panel as the saw cuts and creates a kerf. I would
think the upper sagging section would pinch the blade. Vertical cut
should be no problem.

[DerbyDad03]

On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 5:17:35 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 2/22/2022 11:59 AM, Bob Davis wrote:
> > I am always on the lookout for easier/better ways to handle breakdown of full size sheets of plywood and MDF. I have an assembly table with drop down leaf extension that will hold it. I have a Festool tracksaw.
> >
> > Using the assembly table means I have clear it off completely before getting started. I've considered the Paulk workbench. I just do not want to donate the space to store it.
> >
> > So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
> Soooo. I have the Paulk work bench, I modified the size to suite my needs.
>
> This will address your question above and respond to the storage space.
>
> Your assembly table remains filled because you do not have a place or
> you choose to not clear it off after a job. We all know how that goes....
>
> My Paulk work bench gets put away after every job. Therefore it doe not
> have to be cleared off before use. That solves the issue of having to
> clear it off to cut plywood.
>
> Put away my 8' long by 40" wide bench has a foot print of 20" x 17".
> 2.36 square feet. That is both halves. The saw horses that hold it up
> store fold flat and are 1" thick when folded up. I put both behind that
> black tool box in the attached picture.
>
> This is my assembly table, sanding table, cutting table, what ever needs
> a bench table/bench.
>
> When set up for use I can hop up on it and sit and it does not move or
> creak. It holds my heaviest of projects including a full compliment of
> clamps with no issue.
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/51897050957/in/datetaken/
>
> Someone on here, Derbydad,? has a centipede.

Nope.

[DerbyDad03]

3? When I've used strips, it's usually one at each edge and one on both
sides of the cut. (assuming a cut in the middle-ish of the sheet) Fully
supported, just like when using foam.

As I'm sure you know, one big advantage of foam is there's no need to
set up runners between cuts. Just drop the panel on the foam and cut
wherever you want. Currently, I'm using the foam shown below. Doesn't
make as much of a mess. I cut the sheet in half and then trimmed about
an inch off so I have room for the clamps. Easy to store and easy to
throw in the trailer or back of the van.

I'm not saying it's better than your method. To each his own. ;-)

https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/f7a2ffd8-b89d-4bf2-b93d-aca1bf0db0d8/svn/owens-corning-foam-board-insulation-13ngx-64_145.jpg

[Bob Davis]

That's what I use, too.

[Bob Davis]

Leon, you are doing what you are so good at - talk up an idea and defend it until we think its a good idea, too. Most of the time, you are right. So I am going to find those Paulk plans I bought a while back.

Bob

[k...@notreal.com]

On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 16:24:14 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

I'm thinking about putting dogs/dowels on the 2x4s so they stay still
and on end. Obviously full size 2x4s aren't needed but I have loads
of shorts.

[k...@notreal.com]

I was thinking about torsion box benches. The Paulk would give some
storage space under the bench, out of the way of the work.
I don't need to put benches away, just what's on them. ;-)

[Puckdropper]

sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in
news:y9cRJ.83906$Tr18....@fx42.iad:

>
> On the other hand, I have a pair of these:
>
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/TOUGHBUILT-42-4-in-W-x-28-8-in-H-Steel-Sawh
> orse-and-Jobsite-Table-1100-lb-Capacity-TB-C550/205870368
>
> The slots on either end hold a 2x4, which gives you quick
> 4' x 8' support for sheet goods - especially good for cross cutting if
> you don't mind kerfs in the 2x4 supports.

A little bit of wood putty and paint, and no one will ever know!
Considering how many kerfs a 2x4 could take before needing replacement, I'd
say 2x4s were cheap enough to be sacrificial.

I've used 4 saw horses to break down plywood before. It also works pretty
well on dimensional lumber that doesn't fit on the saw (or in the shop).
Not having the piece drop off when the cut is done is a very nice thing,
IMHO.

Puckdropper

[Bob Davis]

The shaper origin is very effective and efficient for cutting perfect dog holes. I just draw a crosshair on the surface for where it is to be located, then visually place the hole with the origin on that crosshair. Using a 1/2" straight cut router bit, the shaper will cut the hole in 18mm baltic birch in about 5 seconds.

[Leon]

Well Bob I did not mean to sound offensive in any way. But as you know
a working knowledge trumps an idea/thoughts of what might work. We all
have different needs and I was in the same place as you before the Paulk
work bench. The fact that mine is big I have to take it down so that my
wife can park in the garage when I don't have anything going on. AND
each of my 2 piece bench tops are relative lite weight. So they are
easy to put away and rather quickly once the top is cleared of clutter. ;~)


And hopefully you saw me mention using scrap 1/2" x 4" x 96" spacers
between the plywood being cut and the lower stack of plywood and or
bench itself. These were left overs ftom building the bench. I use 3 of
those. Typically one centered under the cut and one on each/both sides
nearer the outer edges of the sheet.

I deviated from the plans in some areas.
IIRC his top is attached to the middle sections with pocket hole screws
and glue.

I did that for the bottom and went straight through the top into the mid
section with counter sank screws and glue. I wanted to know exactly
where the screws are, holding the top, in the event I might cut into the
top.

[Leon]

Yes, the Paulk benches are very rigid. I build mine from 1/2" "Baltic
birch LIKE" 4x8 plywood from Lowes. Painted/primed on both sides IIRC.
It was inexpensive and I will say not nearly as tough as Baltic Birch.
BUT I abuse it and it has held up well so far, 4 years and counting.

Building it is a job, especially of you populate the top with "dog"
holes. Because I have a Festool MFT table I chose to not drill all of
those holes.

[Leon]

This is true BUT.... You should consider if you will use the bench top
like many use the MFT table. Others depend on the dog holes to be
"PRECICELY" located so that they can use dogs to square up stock and cut
with a track saw. Aligning visually will not guarantee precise placement.

Others use the dogs and track to make precise 90 and 45 degree cuts with
their track saws.

I would advise to draw the holes in Sketchup, precisely, and convert to
an SVG file. Ultimately that would probably be faster as you would not
have to mark the top and or alight the Origin on those marks for each of
those holes.

BUT If you do not intend to use the holes to align stock or a track,
close is probably good enough.

Just a thought.

[Leon]

I have not worried about he spacers moving around... I wonder if the
dogs/dowels will hinder placement.

[Leon]

On 2/22/2022 6:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 5:21:55 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/22/2022 12:48 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 12:59:40 PM UTC-5, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> I am always on the lookout for easier/better ways to handle breakdown of full size sheets of plywood and MDF. I have an assembly table with drop down leaf extension that will hold it. I have a Festool tracksaw.
>>>>
>>>> Using the assembly table means I have clear it off completely before getting started. I've considered the Paulk workbench. I just do not want to donate the space to store it.
>>>>
>>>> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>
>>> How do you breakdown the sheets on the assembly table? i.e. How do you support the cut?
>>>
>>> Isn't the Centipede just a bunch of "points"?
>>>
>>> A full sheet of foam insulation might work, but a couple of 2' x 4's wouldn't, would they?
>> I used to use foam insulation but that got messy and it broke up. I use
>> 3 narrow, 4" wide, 1/2" x 8' plywood strips between the layers of
>> plywood. When the top sheet is cut and removed I move the strips to
>> below the next/top sheet.
>
> 3? When I've used strips, it's usually one at each edge and one on both
> sides of the cut. (assuming a cut in the middle-ish of the sheet) Fully
> supported, just like when using foam.

Yes 3. Similar to you but the middle is under the cut. It provides
support on both sides of the cut and I like to think helps eliminate
any possibility tear out on the bottom side of the cut. I quite often
let that cut be the finish cut. So one less spacer to deal with.

Certainly foam is easy to use but I have gone through several sheets of
the stuff in the past 12 or so years. That stuff adds up considering
its price to scrap plywood.

AND do not use the foam board with the metallic film on one side.
Those panels begin to warp with the first cut.

>
> As I'm sure you know, one big advantage of foam is there's no need to
> set up runners between cuts. Just drop the panel on the foam and cut
> wherever you want. Currently, I'm using the foam shown below. Doesn't
> make as much of a mess. I cut the sheet in half and then trimmed about
> an inch off so I have room for the clamps. Easy to store and easy to
> throw in the trailer or back of the van.
>
> I'm not saying it's better than your method. To each his own. ;-)

Absolutely less trouble and easier to use but I cut a lot and the stuff
does not hold up long for me.



>
> https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/f7a2ffd8-b89d-4bf2-b93d-aca1bf0db0d8/svn/owens-corning-foam-board-insulation-13ngx-64_145.jpg

About 2~3 years ago I bought 2 sheets of this stuff that is 2" thick.
That made me take a double take on the price.

BUT I had a use for the thick stuff. My wife covered both with a linen
like cloth and I hung both side by side on a wall in her sewing room.
She now has an 8'x8' wall to place her quilt pieces on to when designing
and laying out the pieces. The pieces stick to the cloth and if
necessary she can push a pin through the fabric into the foam to
securely hold the piece in place.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:05:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

IME, they move around when the sheet is moved and I have to reposition
everything so the saw goes between the two pairs and the inner
supports are reasonably close to the cut.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:20:14 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

Can't you just bust it up and throw it in the trash? I do that with
the mountains of foam inserts they pack tools in.

>
>AND do not use the foam board with the metallic film on one side.
>Those panels begin to warp with the first cut.
>
>
>>
>> As I'm sure you know, one big advantage of foam is there's no need to
>> set up runners between cuts. Just drop the panel on the foam and cut
>> wherever you want. Currently, I'm using the foam shown below. Doesn't
>> make as much of a mess. I cut the sheet in half and then trimmed about
>> an inch off so I have room for the clamps. Easy to store and easy to
>> throw in the trailer or back of the van.
>>
>> I'm not saying it's better than your method. To each his own. ;-)
>
>Absolutely less trouble and easier to use but I cut a lot and the stuff
>does not hold up long for me.
>
>
>
>>
>> https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/f7a2ffd8-b89d-4bf2-b93d-aca1bf0db0d8/svn/owens-corning-foam-board-insulation-13ngx-64_145.jpg
>
>About 2~3 years ago I bought 2 sheets of this stuff that is 2" thick.
>That made me take a double take on the price.

$34 at HD. Last time I bought some it was more like $5. It's been a
while. ;-)

>BUT I had a use for the thick stuff. My wife covered both with a linen
>like cloth and I hung both side by side on a wall in her sewing room.
>She now has an 8'x8' wall to place her quilt pieces on to when designing
>and laying out the pieces. The pieces stick to the cloth and if
>necessary she can push a pin through the fabric into the foam to
>securely hold the piece in place.

It probably deadens sound some too. Panels could be part of the
interior decoration. You could show them on HGTV and make a bundle.
>

[k...@notreal.com]

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:02:16 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

I bought one of these in 2017 when it was a one-time tool.

<https://www.woodpeck.com/hole-boring-jig-2019.html>

[k...@notreal.com]

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:54:16 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

That raises an important point. The torsion box sides have to be
thought out with the dog holes in mind. A dog hole through a box edge
probably wouldn't work so well.

[Bob Davis]

No offense taken. It was a left handed complement.

[Bob Davis]

My "X marks the spot" description was meant for non-critical dog holes. As an example, I wanted to drill 16 20mm holes on a new horizontal spoilboard for the shaper origin workbench. They could be off a fraction and it would not matter. Pencil and ruler were the quick and dirty approach. I just drilled a hole, then copy and move it to the next "X" on the screen. For implementing a precise layout like an MFT top, I definitely agree with your advice.

[Brian Welch]

Going back to the OP, I have one of the larger Centipedes...While I don't use it that often, I have used it successfully. It comes with attachments that support/permit 2bys as cross members. I generally prefer a rigid table, but have no knocks on the Centipede...

[DerbyDad03]

That answers my original question. Thanks.

Next question: Do the attachments stay attached?

IOW, do you always have to "find" them when you want to use
them or do they fold up with the Centipede?

[Brian Welch]

The attachments are loose. This enables you to use them on any of the posts. The unit comes with a bag to help keep everything together. But it is very lightweight, not very durable...

[Brian Welch]

Point of clarification...I was referring to the bag as not being very durable.
It does come with a handful of plastic hold downs to help keep things in place.

[Leon]

I bought the plans a few years back and IIRC they take this into
consideration.
If you are considering the Paulk design.

If you are going to do the regular torsion grid under the top you need
to do a lot of planing.

Something to consider with the traditional torsion box design that has a
top and bottom. If you drill dog holes and accidentally drop something
into one of those holes it will be difficult to retrieve.

FWIW things, in particular screws, drop through the MFT table holes all
the time.
Since I use that table to add slides to drawers I have to use a screw
container as those screws are particularly vulnerable to fall through.

The Paulk design is very much like a torsion box design. BUT it only
has bracing crossing from side to side and on the ends. The long sides
are only on the outside. And then it is open all the way through both
directions.

I sometimes put my long clamps inside.

Take a look as his latest plans/videos at least for ideas. He has
changed the elongated cut outs from having half circle ends to squares
corners. Drawers might be a consideration if it will be permanently set
up..

[Leon]

That will work too! You do want the accuracy if you can. Swingman,
remember him? He bought the Parf set up and built his Paulk work bench.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/jigs-guides-and-fixtures/110468-mk-ii-parf-guide-drilling-system?item=58B3996&utm_source=free_google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&gclid=CjwKCAiA9tyQBhAIEiwA6tdCrDIzYfaBCWbsfR87Sh5PKzOiJ4Q_LSIMSfk_QLj3PE7vTcK6ecgaRhoCp9sQAvD_BwE


Your Origin would be easier to use for this operation. There will be no
cutting and moving a jig to a new location. And no pushing to plunge.

That said, IIRC the Shaper Hub has downloadable SVG files to recreate
the MFT table dog holes. While you needs may require a larger work
surface with dog holes you can use the same SVG file and tell the Origin
to begin as a different location for more holes.

[Leon]

There is nothing wrong with your method for "close is good enough"!

I used the exact same method for the mortises needed mid field in the
MDO sides of the Murphy bed that I built last summer.

Aligning the Origin at a known/marked starting spot vs. a distance from
the the x/y intersection is soooo much easier.

[Leon]

How does or how would the Cenepede work on an irregular, non flat
surface? Will all those legs compensate or telegraph the floor/ground
irregularities to the top working area?

[Leon]

That is how I got rid of the sheets/chunks of sheets. But I cut way too
much plywood for the packing foam inserts inventory to keep up.

Last year I did a kitchen re-do. Approximately 30 new doors with white
oak panels, and approximately 30, 1/2" Baltic birch drawers with and
1/4" birch bottoms.
Off the top of my head, 10 sheets of plywood.

The our Murphy bed and tower cabinets with a boat load of adjustable
shelves for the towers Off the top of my head, 8 sheets of plywood and MDO.

Then a 4 unit hutch, all sheet goods except for the frames of the 8
doors and drawer fronts and front and back face frames and trim.
Probably 8 sheets.

When I buy sheet goods they go directly to the Paulk style work bench.
Then I used to put the foam sheet in between the top sheet good and
the one below. The foam sheets get pretty tattered just moving them
down below the top sheet and the next sheet with out actually removing
the top sheet and placing the foam sheet and then replacing the top sheet.

I much prefer the sturdy thin plywood scraps.

>>
>> AND do not use the foam board with the metallic film on one side.
>> Those panels begin to warp with the first cut.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> As I'm sure you know, one big advantage of foam is there's no need to
>>> set up runners between cuts. Just drop the panel on the foam and cut
>>> wherever you want. Currently, I'm using the foam shown below. Doesn't
>>> make as much of a mess. I cut the sheet in half and then trimmed about
>>> an inch off so I have room for the clamps. Easy to store and easy to
>>> throw in the trailer or back of the van.
>>>
>>> I'm not saying it's better than your method. To each his own. ;-)
>>
>> Absolutely less trouble and easier to use but I cut a lot and the stuff
>> does not hold up long for me.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/f7a2ffd8-b89d-4bf2-b93d-aca1bf0db0d8/svn/owens-corning-foam-board-insulation-13ngx-64_145.jpg
>>
>> About 2~3 years ago I bought 2 sheets of this stuff that is 2" thick.
>> That made me take a double take on the price.
>
> $34 at HD. Last time I bought some it was more like $5. It's been a
> while. ;-)

Yeah! LOL

>
>> BUT I had a use for the thick stuff. My wife covered both with a linen
>> like cloth and I hung both side by side on a wall in her sewing room.
>> She now has an 8'x8' wall to place her quilt pieces on to when designing
>> and laying out the pieces. The pieces stick to the cloth and if
>> necessary she can push a pin through the fabric into the foam to
>> securely hold the piece in place.
>
> It probably deadens sound some too. Panels could be part of the
> interior decoration. You could show them on HGTV and make a bundle.
>>

One could only wish. She has 3 sewing machines and all will run by
themselves. Meaning it is not unusual for at least two to be running
with just her up there. And she has a sewing group of 3 other ladies so
all the machines are going.

All hard surfaces for the walls/ceilings and floors. The foam design
center is half of one of the short walls. The biggest machine travels
along a 11' long track so its noise is ever changing. The other two
machines are on a table that is against the short wall along the
staircase. Their noise goes over the short wall and down the hard
surfaced stairs to our tile floors down stairs.

As far as showing of this foam board wall, not my idea. I got the idea
from one of her sewing buddies and I am certain that she did not come up
with the idea herself.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:36:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

The Origin may be more accurate too. Any errors in the jig, for
whatever reason (spacing, hole size, hole/pin fit, or whatever) is
cumulative. The origin wouldn't be, unless the tape stretches.

>
>That said, IIRC the Shaper Hub has downloadable SVG files to recreate
>the MFT table dog holes. While you needs may require a larger work
>surface with dog holes you can use the same SVG file and tell the Origin
>to begin as a different location for more holes.

It would seem that "offset" would do it. The spacing of 3/4" holes and
20mm holes is the same, isn't it? If there is any imperial/metric
conversion error, it would be cumulative too.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:27:46 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

I was considering stealing from it anyway. I like the arch structure
in the sides. They look like a perfect place to stick tools to keep
them off the top while working.

>If you are going to do the regular torsion grid under the top you need
>to do a lot of planing.

The Paulk design is a tort ion design, isn't it? ...just with more
widely separated top/bottom.

>
>Something to consider with the traditional torsion box design that has a
>top and bottom. If you drill dog holes and accidentally drop something
>into one of those holes it will be difficult to retrieve.

Mag switch. ;-) I've found that they'll even pick up most stainless
fasteners.

>FWIW things, in particular screws, drop through the MFT table holes all
>the time.
>Since I use that table to add slides to drawers I have to use a screw
>container as those screws are particularly vulnerable to fall through.
>
>The Paulk design is very much like a torsion box design. BUT it only
>has bracing crossing from side to side and on the ends. The long sides
>are only on the outside. And then it is open all the way through both
>directions.

Right. That's what I thought. Good point about fewer supports though.

>
>I sometimes put my long clamps inside.
>
>Take a look as his latest plans/videos at least for ideas. He has
>changed the elongated cut outs from having half circle ends to squares
>corners. Drawers might be a consideration if it will be permanently set
>up..

Good place for tracks too. Won't help the 108" but the 55" should be
easy to hide in the ends.

[Leon]

Yes! I store clamps and tools under there. The new design sides are
square vs round.

>
>> If you are going to do the regular torsion grid under the top you need
>> to do a lot of planing.
>
> The Paulk design is a tort ion design, isn't it? ...just with more
> widely separated top/bottom.

Probably, but open all the way through from all sides.

>>
>> Something to consider with the traditional torsion box design that has a
>> top and bottom. If you drill dog holes and accidentally drop something
>> into one of those holes it will be difficult to retrieve.
>
> Mag switch. ;-) I've found that they'll even pick up most stainless
> fasteners.

But will it go down through a 3/4" dog hole?

>
>> FWIW things, in particular screws, drop through the MFT table holes all
>> the time.
>> Since I use that table to add slides to drawers I have to use a screw
>> container as those screws are particularly vulnerable to fall through.
>>
>> The Paulk design is very much like a torsion box design. BUT it only
>> has bracing crossing from side to side and on the ends. The long sides
>> are only on the outside. And then it is open all the way through both
>> directions.
>
> Right. That's what I thought. Good point about fewer supports though.
>>
>> I sometimes put my long clamps inside.
>>
>> Take a look as his latest plans/videos at least for ideas. He has
>> changed the elongated cut outs from having half circle ends to squares
>> corners. Drawers might be a consideration if it will be permanently set
>> up..
>
> Good place for tracks too. Won't help the 108" but the 55" should be
> easy to hide in the ends.

Depends on how long you make it. Mine is 96" The long track would not
stick out too much. ;~)

[Leon]

Probably more accurate and yes the re-placement of the jig would add up
an error if there was one. If the tape stretches the Origin may not
recognize it al all. I know that it does not recognize a partial
domino. When you scan the work area, the Origin will let you know if
the tape is good. The scan screen changes the color of the tape as it
"approves". ;~)

>>
>> That said, IIRC the Shaper Hub has downloadable SVG files to recreate
>> the MFT table dog holes. While you needs may require a larger work
>> surface with dog holes you can use the same SVG file and tell the Origin
>> to begin as a different location for more holes.
>
> It would seem that "offset" would do it. The spacing of 3/4" holes and
> 20mm holes is the same, isn't it? If there is any imperial/metric
> conversion error, it would be cumulative too.

The spacing is a particular metric measurement IIRC.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 17:13:23 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

The videos I've watched warn that stretching the tape will throw the
scaling off.

>
>>>
>>> That said, IIRC the Shaper Hub has downloadable SVG files to recreate
>>> the MFT table dog holes. While you needs may require a larger work
>>> surface with dog holes you can use the same SVG file and tell the Origin
>>> to begin as a different location for more holes.
>>
>> It would seem that "offset" would do it. The spacing of 3/4" holes and
>> 20mm holes is the same, isn't it? If there is any imperial/metric
>> conversion error, it would be cumulative too.
>
>The spacing is a particular metric measurement IIRC.

Strange. The Woodpecker jig does 3/4" and 20mm holes but uses the
same template for both. The 20mm holes are specifically designed to
make MFT compatible/replacement tops.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 17:07:50 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

...and further apart.

>>>
>>> Something to consider with the traditional torsion box design that has a
>>> top and bottom. If you drill dog holes and accidentally drop something
>>> into one of those holes it will be difficult to retrieve.
>>
>> Mag switch. ;-) I've found that they'll even pick up most stainless
>> fasteners.
>
>
>But will it go down through a 3/4" dog hole?

Have you ever seen the magnetic puppies kids play with (or used to
before toys were banned)? Use the magswitch to move the thing around
until it falls out (holes on both sides?).

>>
>>> FWIW things, in particular screws, drop through the MFT table holes all
>>> the time.
>>> Since I use that table to add slides to drawers I have to use a screw
>>> container as those screws are particularly vulnerable to fall through.
>>>
>>> The Paulk design is very much like a torsion box design. BUT it only
>>> has bracing crossing from side to side and on the ends. The long sides
>>> are only on the outside. And then it is open all the way through both
>>> directions.
>>
>> Right. That's what I thought. Good point about fewer supports though.
>>>
>>> I sometimes put my long clamps inside.
>>>
>>> Take a look as his latest plans/videos at least for ideas. He has
>>> changed the elongated cut outs from having half circle ends to squares
>>> corners. Drawers might be a consideration if it will be permanently set
>>> up..
>>
>> Good place for tracks too. Won't help the 108" but the 55" should be
>> easy to hide in the ends.
>
>Depends on how long you make it. Mine is 96" The long track would not
>stick out too much. ;~)

I'd hate to put an expensive ding in the end.

[Leon]

Gotcha but I don't think you would want to do that. That could be very
time consuming. AND I was thinking a completely closed in torsion box
where the only opening to the inside would be the dog holes. Otherwise
just reach inside for the Paulk style bench with your hand. With the
MFT the screw falls through, hits the concrete floor, and goes who knows
where. ;~)

>>>
>>>> FWIW things, in particular screws, drop through the MFT table holes all
>>>> the time.
>>>> Since I use that table to add slides to drawers I have to use a screw
>>>> container as those screws are particularly vulnerable to fall through.
>>>>
>>>> The Paulk design is very much like a torsion box design. BUT it only
>>>> has bracing crossing from side to side and on the ends. The long sides
>>>> are only on the outside. And then it is open all the way through both
>>>> directions.
>>>
>>> Right. That's what I thought. Good point about fewer supports though.
>>>>
>>>> I sometimes put my long clamps inside.
>>>>
>>>> Take a look as his latest plans/videos at least for ideas. He has
>>>> changed the elongated cut outs from having half circle ends to squares
>>>> corners. Drawers might be a consideration if it will be permanently set
>>>> up..
>>>
>>> Good place for tracks too. Won't help the 108" but the 55" should be
>>> easy to hide in the ends.
>>
>> Depends on how long you make it. Mine is 96" The long track would not
>> stick out too much. ;~)
>
> I'd hate to put an expensive ding in the end.

Yes! And why I simply hang my 3 tracks from the hole on the end. That
said, several years ago I certainly did some damage to one of my tracks.
Some how the saw was not indexed properly and when I plunged the blade
cut into the edge and splinter guard and about 1/4" into the track.
Fortunately it did not affect performance of the track. Just looks like
crap.

[Leon]

I guess that is possible. I have never given it a thought. The tape is
not reeeeeel sticky so it comes off of the roll quite easily therefore
it does not stretch when pulling the roll across the area to be scanned.

And concerning that I put several strips on a piece of plywood for using
like the work station domino field, just a larger area. That was summer
before last. I still use that for larger stuff that will not fit on the
work station. The tape has held up well and not come off.

>>
>>>>
>>>> That said, IIRC the Shaper Hub has downloadable SVG files to recreate
>>>> the MFT table dog holes. While you needs may require a larger work
>>>> surface with dog holes you can use the same SVG file and tell the Origin
>>>> to begin as a different location for more holes.
>>>
>>> It would seem that "offset" would do it. The spacing of 3/4" holes and
>>> 20mm holes is the same, isn't it? If there is any imperial/metric
>>> conversion error, it would be cumulative too.
>>
>> The spacing is a particular metric measurement IIRC.
>
> Strange. The Woodpecker jig does 3/4" and 20mm holes but uses the
> same template for both. The 20mm holes are specifically designed to
> make MFT compatible/replacement tops.

I would guess that the centers of the holes on the jig are a specific
distance. If they copy the MFT they are probably a metric spacing.

Different sized holes are accomplished by different sized guide
bushings. AND the indexing plugs are different sized, 3 of each.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 09:21:51 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

wrote:

>On 2/25/2022 9:05 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 17:13:23 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:

<..>

>>> Probably more accurate and yes the re-placement of the jig would add up
>>> an error if there was one. If the tape stretches the Origin may not
>>> recognize it al all. I know that it does not recognize a partial
>>> domino. When you scan the work area, the Origin will let you know if
>>> the tape is good. The scan screen changes the color of the tape as it
>>> "approves". ;~)
>>>
>>>
>> The videos I've watched warn that stretching the tape will throw the
>> scaling off.
>
>I guess that is possible. I have never given it a thought. The tape is
>not reeeeeel sticky so it comes off of the roll quite easily therefore
>it does not stretch when pulling the roll across the area to be scanned.
>
>And concerning that I put several strips on a piece of plywood for using
>like the work station domino field, just a larger area. That was summer
>before last. I still use that for larger stuff that will not fit on the
>work station. The tape has held up well and not come off.
>

I've seen references to that but it doesn't make much sense to me. The
camera only looks so far so the "workstation" can't be any deeper than
that. I guess it can be any width but there is a maximum distance
between the cutter and the camera's vision.

>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, IIRC the Shaper Hub has downloadable SVG files to recreate
>>>>> the MFT table dog holes. While you needs may require a larger work
>>>>> surface with dog holes you can use the same SVG file and tell the Origin
>>>>> to begin as a different location for more holes.
>>>>
>>>> It would seem that "offset" would do it. The spacing of 3/4" holes and
>>>> 20mm holes is the same, isn't it? If there is any imperial/metric
>>>> conversion error, it would be cumulative too.
>>>
>>> The spacing is a particular metric measurement IIRC.
>>
>> Strange. The Woodpecker jig does 3/4" and 20mm holes but uses the
>> same template for both. The 20mm holes are specifically designed to
>> make MFT compatible/replacement tops.
>
>I would guess that the centers of the holes on the jig are a specific
>distance. If they copy the MFT they are probably a metric spacing.

But then two-hole stops in the imperial top won't work. I'm sure I
can find the details on line.

>Different sized holes are accomplished by different sized guide
>bushings. AND the indexing plugs are different sized, 3 of each.

Right, but the distance between hole centers is fixed.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 09:08:01 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

Your foot!

If the torsion box only has an inch or so interior cavity, a magswitch
is strong enough to get a steel fastener.

The torsion box could have dog holes top and bottom without
compromising its strength. That's the point of a torsion box. The
pitch of the slats would have to match the pitch of the dog holes and
you'd grow old drilling the dog holes but it should work.

That's all academic though. If I build another bench it would be more
of a Paulk style top on a permanent base. I like your idea of
drawers. It would be really easy to add the rails before the top is
glued down. The problem is that no matter what tool you need, its
drawer is going to be on the other side of the top. ;-)

I did the same thing except I think it kicked somehow (?) but it
bounced out of the track and chewed a ugly scar across the rail, about
4". It didn't cut through the rail all the way across so the rail
still works as well as it did before.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 09:08:01 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 2/25/2022 9:11 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:

<...>

>> I'd hate to put an expensive ding in the end.
>
>Yes! And why I simply hang my 3 tracks from the hole on the end.

My ceiling is high enough for the 108" track. It will fit between the
floor joists above but it's a PITA taking it out, with all the wires
and stuff up there. It's still in the wood box it came in so pretty
well protected.

[Leon]

The Origin shipped before the work station so I used what I had. But it
is also wider than the workstation so there is no limit to how wide the
field can be.

Some guys have taped off a whole floor to do inlay. You can cut into
the tape. I cut out speaker grills several months ago, much
bigger/deeper than the area on the work station. Just start close to
you and work your way away so that you will not be referencing tape that
has been damaged by the Origin cuts. I did the opposite on one grill,
started on the far side and cut thought the tape. I had some issues
with the damaged tape.

I don't think there is a limit to how big the scan can be.

If you have enough Domino tape there is really no limit as to how big
the project can be. And another reason I chose the Origin over a fixed
size CNC machine.

>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That said, IIRC the Shaper Hub has downloadable SVG files to recreate
>>>>>> the MFT table dog holes. While you needs may require a larger work
>>>>>> surface with dog holes you can use the same SVG file and tell the Origin
>>>>>> to begin as a different location for more holes.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would seem that "offset" would do it. The spacing of 3/4" holes and
>>>>> 20mm holes is the same, isn't it? If there is any imperial/metric
>>>>> conversion error, it would be cumulative too.
>>>>
>>>> The spacing is a particular metric measurement IIRC.
>>>
>>> Strange. The Woodpecker jig does 3/4" and 20mm holes but uses the
>>> same template for both. The 20mm holes are specifically designed to
>>> make MFT compatible/replacement tops.
>>
>> I would guess that the centers of the holes on the jig are a specific
>> distance. If they copy the MFT they are probably a metric spacing.
>
> But then two-hole stops in the imperial top won't work. I'm sure I
> can find the details on line.

Some two hole stops have adjustable dogs to fit odd spacing.

https://armor-tool.com/product/8%e2%80%b3-dog-fence/

>
>> Different sized holes are accomplished by different sized guide
>> bushings. AND the indexing plugs are different sized, 3 of each.
>
> Right, but the distance between hole centers is fixed.
>

Yes.

[Leon]

Ah! My ceilings/sheet rock is 108" on the short height/back of the
garage and progress higher towards the garage doors to about 114"

Actually the floor drops 3" at the bump stop, then angles lower towards
the garage door.

[Sonny]

On Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 11:59:40 AM UTC-6, wrober...@gmail.com wrote:

> So recently, I have been looking at a Bora Centipede. It receives mostly 4-5 star reviews, along with a smattering of de-riguere 1 star "this is junk" reviews.

> Does anyone here have experience or opinions to share?
> Bob

I bought the 4X8 Centipede about 4-5 yrs ago, when Centipede Tool had it. Affinity Tool Works acquired it and rebranded it Bora PortaMate.
It was touted as working well on uneven surfaces. That's probably accurate on an uneven job site, similarly as using saw horses on an uneven job site. Even if a leg was lower or higher than others, that leg would contribute to the stability of the whole since the leg would be "anchored".

Initially I used my centipede, topped with 1/2" padded ply, mostly as an upholstery work table. When Mom became needy and it was my turn to go over and stay with her, I established a satellite upholstery shop in her 2 car garage. There were times when I worked out on the lawn, which was pretty much level. I never had any issues with wobbling of the table on a slight uneven surface.

There were times when I didn't unfold it completely, hence it was taller than when fully opened. I'd use a half sheet of ply on top. Though partially opened/extended, I needed a work space a little higher than normal for a short time.... and though partially opened is not secure for its touted 4500 lbs weight bearing, the open position was sufficient for my smaller projects or tasks at hand. It was plenty secure for this much lesser weight.

As to cutting sheet goods, I've never used it for that, however one could easily cut any sheet, any direction as long as you made adjustments to prevent cutting the supports, pads, etc. There is plenty of space between supports for a blade to run well past any of them.

It's a heck of a lot easier to toss it in the garage (out of the rain) for a quick job, than hauling in saw horses for table top support. I don't do lots of carpentry work/jobs, so my experience with it is probably much less than what a dedicated carpenter or similar would do.

Today's C costs $200. I paid $100 for mine. Today's accessories (designs) are a little different, but same function. My accessories are in a plastic shopping bag hanging on the shop wall... don't need the carrying bag anymore. I gave my bag to my nephew for carrying some of his 30" surveying work tools and/or accessories. I sewed a several velcro strips/straps inside for better securing the tools.... worked out great for him and I was glad to surrender the bag.

My only complaint about the Centipede today is... I'm getting too old for lifting heavy stuff. Though it's only ..... I don't know, guessing.... about 25 lbs, I don't like lifting "heavy" awkward stuff anymore. Many things in my shop, these days, have been relabeled as heavy and awkward, that use to not be.

Sonny

[Bob Davis]

My origin uses SHAPER tape. Have you worked out an advanced approach that marries the domino to the Origin. :~)

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 14:23:44 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

That's what I thought. I couldn't see how a "workstation" could be
any wider than the depth of the vision system. If it could, there
wouldn't be any need for a lot of tape.

>
>Some guys have taped off a whole floor to do inlay. You can cut into
>the tape. I cut out speaker grills several months ago, much
>bigger/deeper than the area on the work station. Just start close to
>you and work your way away so that you will not be referencing tape that
>has been damaged by the Origin cuts. I did the opposite on one grill,
>started on the far side and cut thought the tape. I had some issues
>with the damaged tape.

I've seen that. Inlays on floors look really cool. I bet there is
money to be made there. Shaper may be cheating though.

>
>I don't think there is a limit to how big the scan can be.

There has to be some limit of memory but it could be ridiculously
large.

>If you have enough Domino tape there is really no limit as to how big
>the project can be. And another reason I chose the Origin over a fixed
>size CNC machine.

I was considering a gantry style CNC but when you were talking about
the Origin here, I got that point. Then, I was reading about gantry
CNCs and one of the writers said something on the order of "you can
only make so many plaques...'. I decided that the Origin would be
more fun. The programming of gantry CNCs sounds a lot like work.

So it's all your fault!

[k...@notreal.com]

But your Origin fixes your Domino.

Seems like it should be possible to do M&T joints on an Origin. It
may be a pain on larger parts but there is no reason it shouldn't
work.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 16:19:20 -0800 (PST), Sonny <cedar...@aol.com>
wrote:

Plywood weighs a lot more than 25lbs and is about as awkward as it
gets. You plywood on your Centipede, right?

I'm starting to worry that I won't be able to carry full sheets
anymore. My arm/hand may never fully recover. I can handle it around
the shop but unloading sheets off my truck may be a real problem.

[Sonny]

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 7:19:19 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:

> > Initially I used my centipede, topped with 1/2" padded ply, mostly as an upholstery work table. When Mom became needy and it was my turn to go over and stay with her, I established a satellite upholstery shop in

> Plywood weighs a lot more than 25lbs and is about as awkward as it
> gets. You plywood on your Centipede, right?

Yes, ply on top of C. For garage work, I have to carry the C from the woodshop, 150' away. The ply is leaning against the garage wall, just lay and lift one end onto the C. I tilt load upholstery furniture into the truck similarly.... tilt unload onto a furniture cart when delivering.

I have a few facia & soffit repairs to do on the shop this spring. I'd like to finish replacing the old siding on the west side of the shop, also. Not looking forward to lifting scaffold boards and ply onto the scaffolds for those tasks.

I had recently hire a 20-something guy, who said he needed work, to do some of these easier tasks. He worked 4 hours on each of 2 days and hasn't come back. I've offered upholstery work (tearing apart furniture) to several people wanting work. They never show up. I over heard a young girl (20-ish?) say she hoped to get home on just the gas she bought, $4 and some change. I gave her $10 for more gas and asked if she wanted work, describing the upholstery work. She said yes. She never showed up. I wonder how some of the folks have gotten along if their stimulus funds have run dry.

On a funny note: I was in the hospital a few days, a few weeks back. My sister came over to do some chores around the house, including cleaning the frig. She wouldn't accept any pay. I discovered, too late, my ~ $100 worth of shellac flakes, in the bottom of the frig, was gone. She thought it was some old dried up groceries and tossed it. I didn't have the shop frig when I bought the shellac and I never thought to put the shellac in the shop frig once I bought it.

Sonny

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 18:30:34 -0800 (PST), Sonny <cedar...@aol.com>
wrote:

>On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 7:19:19 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>
>> > Initially I used my centipede, topped with 1/2" padded ply, mostly as an upholstery work table. When Mom became needy and it was my turn to go over and stay with her, I established a satellite upholstery shop in
>
>> Plywood weighs a lot more than 25lbs and is about as awkward as it
>> gets. You plywood on your Centipede, right?
>
>Yes, ply on top of C. For garage work, I have to carry the C from the woodshop, 150' away. The ply is leaning against the garage wall, just lay and lift one end onto the C. I tilt load upholstery furniture into the truck similarly.... tilt unload onto a furniture cart when delivering.
>
>I have a few facia & soffit repairs to do on the shop this spring. I'd like to finish replacing the old siding on the west side of the shop, also. Not looking forward to lifting scaffold boards and ply onto the scaffolds for those tasks.

I had to replace the siding (hardie plank) on one side of the house. I
ended up hiring it out. SWMBO won't let me on ladders anymore. The
guy is good but not cheap and somewhat hard to get to commit to the
job.

>I had recently hire a 20-something guy, who said he needed work, to do some of these easier tasks. He worked 4 hours on each of 2 days and hasn't come back. I've offered upholstery work (tearing apart furniture) to several people wanting work. They never show up. I over heard a young girl (20-ish?) say she hoped to get home on just the gas she bought, $4 and some change. I gave her $10 for more gas and asked if she wanted work, describing the upholstery work. She said yes. She never showed up. I wonder how some of the folks have gotten along if their stimulus funds have run dry.

Yeah. I was listening to someone talking about the "great
resignation" and employee shortage was because of covid driving the
50somethings out of work (age discrimination) and they just said F-it
and retired. if that's true why can't fast food restaurants find
workers?" Those jobs weren't filled by 50somethings.

There's real money to be made for those who want to work. As you point
out, it may take a little work to learn a skill/trade but there is
good money to be made and sooner rather than later. Help to get there
too.

<https://www.mikeroweworks.org/>

>On a funny note: I was in the hospital a few days, a few weeks back. My sister came over to do some chores around the house, including cleaning the frig. She wouldn't accept any pay. I discovered, too late, my ~ $100 worth of shellac flakes, in the bottom of the frig, was gone. She thought it was some old dried up groceries and tossed it. I didn't have the shop frig when I bought the shellac and I never thought to put the shellac in the shop frig once I bought it.

At least she didn't eat it.

[DerbyDad03]

Maybe she knew what they were, fenced them and that's why she was
gracious enough to work for free. ;-)

[Sonny]

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 8:53:24 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:

> Maybe she knew what they were, fenced them and that's why she was
> gracious enough to work for free. ;-)

Yeah. At some gathering, long ago, I tagged her "Sinister Sister". Can't recall the event.

[Bob Davis]

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 7:19:19 PM UTC-6, k...@notreal.com wrote:

I bought a rockler Material Mate cart to serve the purpose of moving heavy sheet goods. It helps a lot and it is sturdy. I would appreciate it more if it did not take up so much space. It is worth considering if your concern is unloading your truck and getting the material to the shop.

[Bob Davis]

I am rethinking how to use/store the material mate, instead of sitting against the wall gathering dust. There are some interesting reviews and user photos on the rockler website. Here is a stumpy nubbs youtube video on the product (start viewing at 3:23) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n1gZ8PU7eo

Bob

[k...@notreal.com]

I have all sorts of panel movers that I thought were a good idea at
the time. All have one problem or another. I have a Bora Portamate
that looks great on paper but it's simply too heavy to be of any use
bringing panels in from my truck. The latch is in an impossible place
with a panel on it so it's not really of much use around the shop
either.

My shop is in a walk-out basement. The access is in the rear and
opens out to "grass". I think the casters on the Rockler panel cart
would be way too small to work. It has to go up a step into the
basement, as well.

I bought a Gorilla Gripper that would break my arm if it weren't
already broken. It's probably OK for 1/2" ply but MDF and melamine
are killers.

This is about the best I've seen but one still has to lift the panel
over obstacles. The big problem is that the hand bar is just too
narrow. It's only about 1/4" and it needs to be about 1" or perhaps a
little more.

<https://www.amazon.com/Telpro-Troll-300-Pound-Capacity-Handler/dp/B0000224PA/ref=sr_1_19?keywords=Plywood+Lifting+Tool&qid=1645996066&sr=8-19>

[Leon]

LOL. No I use the Shaper brand stuff.

[Leon]

https://hackaday.com/2018/04/15/superb-wood-floor-inlay-shows-off-computer-augmented-tools/

>>
>> I don't think there is a limit to how big the scan can be.
>
> There has to be some limit of memory but it could be ridiculously
> large.
>
>> If you have enough Domino tape there is really no limit as to how big
>> the project can be. And another reason I chose the Origin over a fixed
>> size CNC machine.
>
> I was considering a gantry style CNC but when you were talking about
> the Origin here, I got that point. Then, I was reading about gantry
> CNCs and one of the writers said something on the order of "you can
> only make so many plaques...'. I decided that the Origin would be
> more fun. The programming of gantry CNCs sounds a lot like work.
>
> So it's all your fault!

It is always my fault! ;~(

[Leon]

Sooooo I'm not lifting 3/4" ply by myself anymore either. My Paulk
style bench is situated near the garage door. I slide the plywood out
of the bed directly on the work bench and I cut it before moving the ply
again.


Is your walk out basement door to narrow to slide a sheet of plywood
through?

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 15:54:38 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

AIUI, you can print your own, though I'm not sure why. The only
requirement of the tape is that there aren't any duplicated. The size
and distance between would have to be identical too.

[Leon]

I have read that you can copy the tape but..... I have not yet used the
first roll. I build the price of the into the job.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:12:09 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

No, it's a double 36" door but it's under the deck. There's no way to
get the truck near enough to the door to just slide sheets into the
basement. SWMBO wants to extend the deck and cover at least part of
it. Because of the slope of the back yard, I'll have to put the
supports far enough apart to be able to drive under the deck. With all
that, a concrete pad will be cheap. $40-$50K will solve a lot of
problems.

[Bob Davis]

It sounds like you would need something like a cross between a garden cart with pneumatic tires and a panel mover. I have not seen such an animal.

I have a troll panel lift. I bought it about 19 years ago. It is pretty handy. It would be pretty straighforward to add a larger diameter handgrip.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 10:14:19 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis

That sounds about right. Anything I'd build would be way too heavy.

There's something in here to think about though.

>I have a troll panel lift. I bought it about 19 years ago. It is pretty handy. It would be pretty straighforward to add a larger diameter handgrip.

Exactly. I have one and as you say, it's handle is the problem. The
handle is a loop so putting on a larger handle is a bit of a problem.
I haven't figured out how, yet, but maybe a bicycle handgrip on a
cut-away dowel? ...and a wad of electrical tape? If the handle were
open, instead of a loop, a dowel and fly-rod shrink tubing would work.

I use one to move sheets around the shop but I don't have to pick them
up to move them more than a couple of inches and the floor is flat.

[Markem618]

Would foam pipe insulation work for padding out the handle?

[k...@notreal.com]

On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 21:10:20 -0600, Markem618 <mark...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

I don't think so. I think it has to be firmer than that. The issue
isn't that it's too hard, rather too small (diameter). If it were 1"
diameter steel, it would be just fine. Rubber coated would be a bonus
but the key is not digging into the hand.

It's easy enough to try. I have pipe insulation in the basement. I'll
give it a try tomorrow and let you know.

[Bob Davis]

Interesting.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200198174_200198174

[Leon]

And a discount for 6 or more! ;~)

[k...@notreal.com]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 21:39:21 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis

How does that move a sheet of plywood (or two sheets of drywall)?

[k...@notreal.com]

Rollin, rollin, rollin,
Rollin, rollin, rollin,
Head 'em up and move 'em on!

[Leon]

Raw-Hiiiiiide

[DerbyDad03]

OK, how about this then? Move, cut, assemble, etc.

https://i.imgur.com/T0uPb2s.jpg

All you need to do is add these:

https://i.imgur.com/71dos8Z.jpg

[k...@notreal.com]

You're showing your age again, Leon.

[Bob Davis]

I thought since it was same bed length as most short bed pickups, it might hold a sheet of plywood. It certainly has easier rolling wheels compared casters on other carts mentioned. 3/4" MDF would still be a challenge

[k...@notreal.com]

I guess I'm looking to go off-road.

I got to thinking about these:
<https://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch-pneumatic-tire-with-gold-hub-41475.html>
with some aluminum channel to make a larger-wheeled version of
<https://www.amazon.com/Telpro-Troll-300-Pound-Capacity-Handler/dp/B0000224PA/ref=sr_1_35>Or
While looking for a picture of the above, I found these:
<https://www.amazon.com/Weha-Yellow-Install-Pneumatic-Capacity/dp/B06X19G4X6/ref=sr_1_24>

<https://www.amazon.com/Strongway-Panel-Dolly-Pneumatic-Wheels/dp/B07RV54ZC6/ref=sr_1_12>

Close

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 15:10:44 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis

It might work. It's 5' long but 3' would have to hang off the end. It
couldn't be centered because of the handle. Maybe a clamp or
something at the front edge could stabilize the sheet. 13" tires is
certainly good.

Why would MDF be different than ply?

[DerbyDad03]

Well, you do need to get stuff into your backyard, down the step, etc.

>
> I got to thinking about these:
> <https://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch-pneumatic-tire-with-gold-hub-41475.html>

Run away. Those cheap tube tires will go flat and stay flat. BTDT

I replaced the wheels/tires on my 2-wheeled lawn cart with these. Flat free.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08BCLJZN4

[Bob Davis]

3/4" plywood weighs 60lb
3/4" MDF weighs 87lb

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 16:51:18 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

I can get into the back yard with the truck. Step up (no big deal).

>> I got to thinking about these:
>> <https://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch-pneumatic-tire-with-gold-hub-41475.html>
>
>Run away. Those cheap tube tires will go flat and stay flat. BTDT

I have eight of them that I used to move my big tools. They were flat
but hold air. I think they have a tube.

>I replaced the wheels/tires on my 2-wheeled lawn cart with these. Flat free.
>
>https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08BCLJZN4

Some time ago I replaced my wheel barrow tire with one.

It was tubeless. Bad idea!

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 19:26:51 -0800 (PST), Bob Davis

It's rated at 800lbs. Since it would carry sheets flat, getting them
out of the truck onto it would be easy. A couple of 2x4s as a ramp.
If it would stay on the cart, the only problem would standing the
sheet up. I'd only have to lift 1/2 the weight.

I think the key would be stabilizing the sheet on the cart.

[DerbyDad03]

The PITA was having to fill my lawn cart tires every time SWMBO or I wanted to use
it. Since she's the gardener, she wanted to use it a lot and I wasn't always around.
Used to really piss her off, especially since I bought the 2 wheel unit mainly for her
so she didn't have to fight the wheel barrow. Hills, curves and uneven surfaces.

> >I replaced the wheels/tires on my 2-wheeled lawn cart with these. Flat free.
> >
> >https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08BCLJZN4
> Some time ago I replaced my wheel barrow tire with one.
>
> It was tubeless. Bad idea!

Tubeless air filled or flat free? Those are 2 very different things.

Solid/flat free on a single wheeled device loses some of it's "give" but on our 2
wheeled cart they are a godsend, at least in our situation. The thing about a 2
wheeled cart is that you can pull it as well as push it so you can get it over
obstructions even with flat free tires that don't give as much.

2 wheeled carts are much better for old folks like me. This is what I have. It
came with tubeless air filled tires which kept going flat. I added tubes, which
kept going flat. That's when I bought the flat frees and never looked back.

https://www.amazon.com/Marathon-Yard-Rover-Wheelbarrow-Garden/dp/B0721CX298

The one problem with the plastic carts (at least that model) is that they are not made
for front dumping like a wheel barrow is. All the weight is on the plastic body and if
loaded with e.g. gravel it will crack if you try to dump it over the front. My neighbors
cracked my first one that way. I repaired it with some fiberglass mat and epoxy and
let them keep it. (It still had the cheap air filled tires at the time) They paid me with a
really great steak dinner.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 06:35:57 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

>so she didn't have to fight the wheel barrow. Hills, curves and uneven surfaces.I bought one of the Ryobi air pumps. FOr some reason her car tires need filling once every few months.

My wife's car tires slowly lose air (no idea why but all four do). I
bought one of the "Ryobi One" battery powered air pumps to fill tires.
When the tire pressure light comes on, she does it herself.

Were I to buy again, I wouldn't buy the barrow. It's too unstable. A
two-wheeler would be much better.

>> >I replaced the wheels/tires on my 2-wheeled lawn cart with these. Flat free.
>> >
>> >https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08BCLJZN4
>> Some time ago I replaced my wheel barrow tire with one.
>>
>> It was tubeless. Bad idea!
>
>Tubeless air filled or flat free? Those are 2 very different things.

Tubeless air filled (like a car's).

>
>Solid/flat free on a single wheeled device loses some of it's "give" but on our 2
>wheeled cart they are a godsend, at least in our situation. The thing about a 2
>wheeled cart is that you can pull it as well as push it so you can get it over
>obstructions even with flat free tires that don't give as much.

A tubed pneumatic tire works well.

[DerbyDad03]

> My wife's car tires slowly lose air (no idea why but all four do). I
> bought one of the "Ryobi One" battery powered air pumps to fill tires.
> When the tire pressure light comes on, she does it herself.

Bad seal at the rim or bad seal at the TMPS sensor (valve stem).

I've experience both, especially with aluminum wheels.

>
> Were I to buy again, I wouldn't buy the barrow. It's too unstable. A
> two-wheeler would be much better.

That's why I bought what I bought.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 13:46:05 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

All four? Well it's obvious that it is all four but that seems to be
pretty poor quality/design/whatever. Her car has to go into the shop
Monday (brake light on). Maybe have them look at it but at $100 per
wheel, it's easier to just have her check the pressure occasionally.

>>
>> Were I to buy again, I wouldn't buy the barrow. It's too unstable. A
>> two-wheeler would be much better.
>
>That's why I bought what I bought.

Indeed. Smart. My father always had a wheelbarrow so that's what I
bought (at least 40 years ago). Funny how these "new fangled" things
can make life easier.

[DerbyDad03]

When I pulled SWMBO's snows out of storage a few months ago, one
was flat flat. The other was down to about 20 lbs. It was inspection time
so I put them in the back of her SUV and took them over to my indy.

Both wheels had bad valve stems. One was rubber and was easily rebuilt
with a kit. $38 with for the repair and a rim cleaning. The other was metal
and was too corroded to be repaired, so it had to be replaced. $80 for the
valve stem and a rim cleaning. (They were different because I bought 4 OEM
wheels at a salvage yard and one was missing a stem, so they put a rubber
one in it for me. 4-ish years ago)

What do you get for $100 a wheel at your shop?

[Leon]

Some factory aluminum wheels are porous and not properly painted inside.
The air oozes out.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 15:33:12 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

From what I can find, the TMPS sensor is about $40 plus an hour labor.