Is a sloped workshop floor a problem?
Ron Griffin
relied on my 2-car gara...shop. The candidate home that has risen to
the top of the list has a sloped, though relatively level, concrete
floor. Measures out to be 1/2" of fall over the length of my 30"
level. Because a 2-car garage is a bit tight for my tool collection,
all of the major implements are on wheels. So ... its not exactly
convenient to simply adjust the leg levelers to achieve a perpendicular
with Earth's gravity vector.
Certainly, some of you good folks have confronted this issue. Am I
imagining a problem or is there really one? Need some answers soon,
because swmbo is anxious to decide.
thanks,
ron
Leon
My garage floor slopes also but have never noticed it unless I look at the
wall at the floor.
"Ron Griffin" <ron-g...@tamu.edu> wrote in message
news:260520011503012258%ron-g...@tamu.edu...
Bill Rittner
floor that is neither level or flat and am having no problems. All of my
machines are on mobile bases.
Best wishes for your new home and shop.
Bill Rittner
Ron Griffin wrote in message <260520011503012258%ron-g...@tamu.edu>...
>I'm a woodworker hobbiest looking to buy the next home, and I've always
>relied on my 2-car gara...shop. The candidate home that has risen to
>the top of the list has a sloped, though relatively level, concrete
>floor. Measures out to be 1/2" of fall over the length of my 30"
>level
<snip>
Jim Stuyck
My two-car shop has a sloping floor (needed in order to let it drain
properly) and I've never given it a second thought as I drag table
saw, planer, band saw, jointer, whatever around the floor. About the
only time it's a consideration is when I use the roller-stand to
support a very long piece (usually on the drill press).
Jim Stuyck
mouser
Your cuts, drilling or planing are made with a blade/bit in a relationship
with a base of some kind. Whether or not the base is "level" shouldn't be a
factor.
mouser
LoD...@someplace.org
with a GREAT 2 car garage...extra deep! I always wanted to get a
workshop going, but in my old home the single car garage left me with
no room.
Anyway, my new garage has a drop of about an inch in the NW corner
(garage runs East/West lengthwise) up to 0" in the SE corner with a
crack running about 1/3rd the width of the garage measured from the
North wall (see the crude ASCII pic below.)
^North
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| |
| |
| -------------------- |
| Crack | | |
|-------------| -----------------| ----------------- | Table saw -------------------- |
| | | | ----------| |
| -------------------- | | Jointer |
| ------------ |
| |
This crack and the drop have caused some problems...for instance, my
table saw is over the crack. I have a contractor type saw, so the
adjustable legs are able to get the saw level even though the crack is
about a 1/2" drop at that spot.
Unfortunately, I would like to have my jointer in a spot that is close
to the crack (about 3/8" at that point) but since it is a cabinet type
there is no way for me to compensate unless I build an
adjustable/portable type frame (which I plan to do). One of the
problems is that as the jointer runs the vibrations make it want to
fall over that crack and the slant (which I consider a safety hazard
if you are pushing a board on the jointer).
Basically, you have to compensate your equipment with leveling feet to
make up that difference (my workbench is on the North wall and
required me to cut 2 legs shorter to get it to level...not a big deal
really.)
Bottom line....you can make it work with leveling feet and some time!
LoDrag
On Sat, 26 May 2001 15:03:01 -0500, Ron Griffin <ron-g...@tamu.edu>
wrote:
4thgra...@polka.hat
It seems it is.
If it's bugging you enough to ask now,it will surely drive you bald in
no time. Lay that on your wife.
Just go get a couple of bags of leveling cement(don't know what it's
called in english.) and do it before you move into the shop.
You'll be sorry if you don't.
Mark Kepke
Ron Griffin wrote:
>
> I'm a woodworker hobbiest looking to buy the next home, and I've always
> relied on my 2-car gara...shop. The candidate home that has risen to
> the top of the list has a sloped, though relatively level, concrete
> floor. Measures out to be 1/2" of fall over the length of my 30"
> level. Because a 2-car garage is a bit tight for my tool collection,
> all of the major implements are on wheels. So ... its not exactly
> convenient to simply adjust the leg levelers to achieve a perpendicular
> with Earth's gravity vector.
<snip>
If the surface slopes but is otherwise planar (flat), I wouldn't sweat
it unless your planning on making marbles, bowling balls, or other
rolling objects. Mobile stands all have feet or wheel locks so those
aren't a problem.
-MK
Gary Karner
feet. At least is seems to average out as I can still cut accurate angles
and make things that turn out square. :)
"Mark Kepke" <mke...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3B104F34...@nc.rr.com...
Steve Wilson
For many tools a sloped floor that is flat will not present a problem.
However, it can present a problem for top heavy machines such as a drill
press or bandsaw. You will also have the problem that you won't be able
to really level things if the slope is too much such as the slope for a
garage floor which IMHO is a fair amount of pitch. Having said that,
sloping garage floors, especially a 3-car garage size, will not be a truly
flat surface but instead have a certain amount of variation that will
present a problem for certain large machines - example a tablesaw with a 50"
fence. I had a problem getting my table saw stable. If I wanted it level I
would have had to cut off part of the adjustable legs. So I accepted some
tilt. I use a ShopFox mobile base that doesn't extend to include the
support legs. This along with two adjustable support posts on the base
allows me to make my saw stable but not level. It is important to make
things stable if you want to minimize vibration and improve cut quality. It
also means that if I want to move my saw I need to re-set it which takes a
fair amount of time.
The last and most important problem comes in building case goods. An uneven
floor will seriously hamper your ability to make cases, tables, dresser's
that are truly square and level. If you can build it on your workbench then
no problem, but if you have to do assembly on the floor you will not have a
truly flat reference plane on which to build your case. To get around this
you can get a couple of very flat doors that you can place on saw horses and
then shim the doors to make a flat, untwisted, unwarped surface onwhich to
build. I'm currently building a sewing center. The main carcass was built
on my work bench and the doors were installed with it on the bench.
Everything is fine. If I place it on my garage floor it racks a bit and the
doors end up being 1/8" out of alignment (the top of the doors are
displaced). This caused some concern until I brought the carcase into the
house and used the dining room floor to check - sure enough it un-racked
back to being square and true. Now what this tells me is that when I go to
make our dining table, a large dresser, and entertainment center that I'll
either need to assemble the base cabinets in the house or build a large flat
assembly table in the garage. Lastly if your floor is truly flat, but
sloped, you won't be able to use a level to help you install moldings or
checking your cabinets.
Having said all that I would suggest that if your garage is going to be used
and dedicated to the shop that you install some wood strips on the concrete
floor and then add a wood floor. It doesn't have to be tall, unless you
want to run DC piping and electric, but it does need to be flat. The
advantage is that now you have a level, flat floor that you can trust.
Besides, the wood floor would be better on your feet. Of course if you need
to use your carage as a garage as well as a shop then a good assembly table
would be in order.
Steve
Ron Griffin <ron-g...@tamu.edu> wrote in message
news:260520011503012258%ron-g...@tamu.edu...
Rich & Sons
Let me have you answer this question.
There is a large turntable say, 3' in diameter. A second turntable is
placed in the center of the first turning in the opposite direction.
Both tables run at 33-1/3 RPM. The second turn table has a record
playing on it, but it appears to be sitting still. Will sound come from
the second turn table?
Yes. It is stationary to the table it is on and the turn table is
spinning. The second turntable is standing still to the earth the first
turntable is on.
Your tools are sitting in the same plane you are standing in and you
could say the ceiling is off, thus the floor is level. I have seen
where a shop floor can be sloped and still seem level. Sit a tool or
something that has wheels on the floor and see if it will roll by
itself. I used to live in a house that you could sit a glass of water
on the table that was filled to the rim. Once it was sat on the table,
the water would spill out til it was 1" away from one side lip and up to
the other side. My sister's baby buggy would roll across the room if
you failed to set the break.
Rich
PLEASE! NO JUNK MAIL OR SOLICITATIONS, NO E-MAIL CHAIN LETTERS AND DO
NOT ADD THIS E-MAIL ADDRESS TO ANY DATA BASE!!!
Joe Woody Woodpecker
degree. Set the blade as you would to cut a 90 degree cut on a piece of
wood. Having someone tip the saw and hold it can work. Does the saw
cut the same 90 degree cut as it would if it was on a perfectly level
surface?
Your tools are squared to their own plane and not that of the earth. My
23x45' shop floor slopes 1" every 8' You would be amazed to think it
was even sloped. I wash down the floor and the thickest puddle is the
thickness of a dime. I do have a rule. Each one of my tools have a
best place operation located in the shop. I have used a heavy duty
black marker on the floor that marks the outline of where the tool sits
when in use. If I need to use my TS or router, I can move it into place
with the mobile base and when I sit it there, it doesn't wobble. As for
being level. I am cutting the board to the squareness of the saw, not
the squareness of the floor to the world.
As for assembly, I check squareness with opposing corner measurements.
When glue and nail in squareness, it doesn't matter if the garage ....
shop floor is level. As long as you remember two things. 1) The
bit/blade in relationship to the tool is where the squareness is
adjusted. 2) If you can put levellers on the tool, you can change the
slope (level) of the floor, but the squareness of the tool can not be
changed with the levellers on the tool.
Example: Your are standing in front of your TS. There is a 1 degree
slope to your right. Your TS slopes 1 degree to the right and you slope
1 degree to the right. You and the saw look level to each other.
BTW if a line is the shortest distance between two points, than if you
run a level line far enough, it would follow the curve of the earth, or
would it go off into outer space and then would it be level?
Ron Griffin wrote
ron
Woody
E-mail at, Woodwo...@webtv.net
Plans For A Dust Collector Separator Lid You Can Build
http://community.webtv.net/WoodworkerJoe/buildadustcollector Photos
with the story (Not recommended for kids, martians or nonexperienced
woodworkers)
Know Why Things Aren't Going Like They Should In Your Shop? Murphy Has A
List Of Answers On Murphy's Woodworking Laws:
http://community.webtv.net/WoodworkerJoe/MurphysWoodworking 103 Reasons
Updated 4-27-2001
Ron Griffin
the "relativity" input, but things do roll and finish does run and
top-heavy things are less stable, so gravity does have bearing. Most
of you appear to find these problems quite small, and that's what I
needed to know.
I really appreciate everybody taking the time to help.
In 2 hours I take measurements on garage #2. Hope to place an offer on
one of the final 2 by nightfall.
Ron
Tom Plamann
"Joe "Woody" Woodpecker" <Woodwor...@webtv.net> wrote in
message
news:18414-3B...@storefull-164.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
>Consider this. Build a fixture that will hold your table saw at
a 45
degree. Set the blade as you would to cut a 90 degree cut on a
piece of
wood. Having someone tip the saw and hold it can work. Does the
saw
cut the same 90 degree cut as it would if it was on a perfectly
level
surface?
Did anybody see "Ace Ventura Pet Detective"?
When Joe talks, I always picture Jim Carrey bent over moving his
butt cheeks with his hands while he is talking. I don't know why
this comes to mind but it just does.
Snip.............ramble........ramble............ramble.......ram
ble
>BTW if a line is the shortest distance between two points, than
if you
run a level line far enough, it would follow the curve of the
earth, or
would it go off into outer space and then would it be level?
Now for Geometry 101....
A 'Straight line' is the shortest distance between two points. A
level line is one that runs perpendicular to the center of the
earth. And that would include a line that circles the earth. The
shortest distance between my house and Tokyo Japan is a "straight
line" that is 5,586 miles long. At it's mid point, it is 1,157
miles below the earth's surface (this line would be the base line
of a cord). The only place that this straight line is level is at
the mid point, where it is perpendicular to the center of the
earth. A line that runs along the circumference of the earth
straight to Tokyo would be 6156 miles long and would be level at
all points.
.............God, I can't believe I'm trying to have an
intelligent conversation with this guy.
I am sorry I got hooked.
Tom Plamann
www.plamann.com
Jim Lillie
>Did anybody see "Ace Ventura Pet Detective"?
>When Joe talks, I always picture Jim Carrey bent over moving his
>butt cheeks with his hands while he is talking. I don't know why
>this comes to mind but it just does.
>
>.God, I can't believe I'm trying to have an
>intelligent conversation with this guy.
Tom:
You made my day. I'm still grining ear to ear.
Jim Lillie
Joe Woody Woodpecker
end as straight and perfect 2000 miles. Is it still level at the other
end?
Then consider this. Your shop floor slopes 3" in 10 feet. (I know it
may be extreme) You adjust your TS to be level. When you are facing
your saw, what makes your body level? Surely standing is some odd
position would get tiring.
Tom Plamann
> OK, let me rephrase that. Set a level line in your shop. Now
run one
> end as straight and perfect 2000 miles. Is it still level at
the other
> end?
No.
Let me say again, a level line is a reference to being
perpendicular to the center of the earth. On the end of a line
that shoots out 2,000 miles, you would no longer be
perpendicular. In fact a line that extends straight out into
space would be at a 90 degree angle, though far away, a quarter
of the way around the world. So at that point it would be plumb
in reference to where you are standing. The fact that the earth
has a radius of 3,950 miles means if you take a level line out
ten miles, you would be 67' off the ground at the ten mile mark.
And no longer level, as the line would be sloping down to the
origin.
>
> Then consider this. Your shop floor slopes 3" in 10 feet. (I
know it
> may be extreme) You adjust your TS to be level. When you are
facing
> your saw, what makes your body level? Surely standing is some
odd
> position would get tiring.
It's called center of gravity. It would be more difficult to try
and stand perpendicular to a sloped floor for any length of time.
When you walk or stand on a hill, your center of gravity makes
you stand upright. If you were to stand perpendicular to the
slope, you would fall over. Watch someone walk on a slope once.
They are upright not perpendicular to the hill. See how long you
can stand at a tilt.
Tom Plamann
www.plamann.com
Jeffrey Beardsley
Respectfully (ROFLMAO), I remember this same conversation series, 30+ years
ago while in the Navy. Young seamen could not understand why, while standing
on the deck of a ship, they could only see another ship within 7 miles of
us. Perhaps an easier illustration would be to draw a circle, call it the
Earth, and then lay a Tsquare such that the T is tangent to the surface and
the long axis passes through the center of the Earth. The T would be "level"
at any point. But you could readily determine that if the T were extended
you would be headed into space.
Hmmm, I wonder if NASA could build a bridge to Mars and then we wouldn't
need........Naw, forget it.
Have a great day! You've started mine off well!
Jeff.
"Tom Plamann" <tho...@plamann.com> wrote in message
news:FRDQ6.163$eK3....@typhoon.kc.rr.com...