Dry Rot Repair - HELP!!
Morris N. Reinisch
of the home repair shows, the host scraped away the wood that was dry
rotted and then used an auto body compound to fill in the cavity. Was I
hearing things or is that correct? Can you actually use auto body
compound to fill in the void caused by dry rot? Why would you want to use
that instead of more traditional "plastic wood" or some other wood
substitute that you can get from a hardware store? I am reluctant to go to
an auto supply store to fix a problem with my wood trim.
Any help or comments would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Morris
DoveTailed
painted.
With dry rot the most important thing is to assure that you keep any water out
of the affected wood. The fungus is easily controlled if the wood is kept dry
(in spite of the common name).
Doug Stowe
Reinisch" <shr...@mail2.nai.net> wrote:
Auto body compound is very cheap, weather resistant, paintable, easily
worked. Try to buy some "plastic wood" for under $4.00 per quart. And
it sets up very quickly, unlike plastic wood which is dependent on the
evaporation of solvents. Plastic wood when applied thickly takes a very
long time to dry, and shrinks so much that you will have to do a second
application. Auto body compound sets up and is ready to work in minutes.
That show gave you some very good information.
--
"Creating Beautiful Boxes With Inlay Techniques"
Fine furnishings from American Hardwoods since 1976
visit http://www.DougStowe.com
George Nazarko
Paul Fishbein wrote in message ...
> You can use auto body filler for wood repair but I wouldn't recommend
>it. My experience with it is that it tends to be too fluid to stay in one
>place until it cures for a few minutes. Unfortunately, the working time is
>fairly short.
Make "forms" for it out of tape, always, of course remembering that it will
flow downhill.
> It sands smoothly but is harder to do so than wood fillers.
Not if you use the aggressive grinders used in auto body work.
>I also found that it does not stick to properly prepared wood as well as
>dedicated wood fillers. I have only used the Bondo brand filler. The
fumes
>from the monomer are almost choking and quite irritating to the eyes. This
>may not be a problem for you since you intend to use it outdoors.
I'd still use the charcoal filters, becuase you're going to be working close
up and personal.
> I would recommend the epoxy products made by Abatron.
$$$$$????
Fiberglass is good.
Paul Fishbein
it. My experience with it is that it tends to be too fluid to stay in one
place until it cures for a few minutes. Unfortunately, the working time is
I also found that it does not stick to properly prepared wood as well as
dedicated wood fillers. I have only used the Bondo brand filler. The fumes
from the monomer are almost choking and quite irritating to the eyes. This
may not be a problem for you since you intend to use it outdoors.
anything from a sculpting clay consistency to a fluid. You can make
anything in between. Some of the fillers are intended for architectural
repair which you speak of. You can also get a two part epoxy intended for
wood which comes in a tube-shape with the hardener in the middle of the
material. You just cut off what you need and then knead it for a few
minutes until it is uniform. The working time is good and it sticks to the
wood like a shipwrecked sailor. None of these epoxies shrink to any great
extent.
Good Luck.
Morris N. Reinisch wrote in message
<01bdb9ad$d4a97cc0$3a21...@SHRINER.nai.net>...
Ed and Joan Conn
I had a solid wood front entry door that was badly weathered and starting to
split apart, just on the bottom 8". When I priced the co$$t of a comparable
replacement door, I decided to try and fix it. Since I've done a fair amount of
body work, and was in a hurry and needed something that would set up quickly, I
scraped out the damaged part and filled it with Bondo, sanded and painted over it
about an hour later. After 3 years, there is no sign of any more damage: a
couple of bucks worth of good ol' Bondo saved me the cost and hassle of replacing
the whole door. Never even saw it on TV!!
Doug Stowe wrote:
> In article <01bdb9ad$d4a97cc0$3a21...@SHRINER.nai.net>, "Morris N.
> Reinisch" <shr...@mail2.nai.net> wrote:
>
> > I've got some trim at the front of my house that has some dry rot. On one
> > of the home repair shows, the host scraped away the wood that was dry
> > rotted and then used an auto body compound to fill in the cavity. Was I
> > hearing things or is that correct? Can you actually use auto body
> > compound to fill in the void caused by dry rot? Why would you want to use
> > that instead of more traditional "plastic wood" or some other wood
> > substitute that you can get from a hardware store? I am reluctant to go to
> > an auto supply store to fix a problem with my wood trim.
> > Any help or comments would be appreciated.
> > Thanks.
> > Morris
>
Tony Berke
>
> I've got some trim at the front of my house that has some dry rot. On one
> of the home repair shows, the host scraped away the wood that was dry
Bondo is fine for filling holes and/or cracks in wood, but it won't fix
real rot too well... it will just sit on top of punky wood, and the odds
are (given continued exposure to moisture) that the punky wood will
continue to get worse.
I have a 150 year old house with lots of trim, and have had lots (way
too much, really) opportunity for trying out different methods of fixing
rotten wood. By far my favorite is Abatron's "Wood Epox". They have
two products, both based on a 50-50 two part epoxy system.
The first product ("Wood Consolidant") is a fairly low-viscosity liquid
resin. At least superficially, it's not unlike the resin that is used
when laying up fiberglass. You mix it up, possibly thin it, and then
dump it on rotten wood. The rottener the better. It soaks into the
wood, and then sets up. It holds everything together amazingly well...
I've used it to fix, among many other things, some completely rotted fir
gutters ($9/foot to replace!!!). It worked wonders, and the repair has
lasted several years with no sign of failure.
The second product is a putty, and would get used in the same situations
that auto body fillers would work. I've used lots of both, and find
that the WoodEpox product has very superior working characteristics once
it has hardened. It planes like magic, sands at about the same rate as
soft pine, and will rout, drill, and cut without fouling tools.
A typical repair of a really messed up item (a rotted off gutter return,
for example) involves starting with the consolidant to hold everything
together and to prevent any further moisture penetration. Once the
stuff is at least mostly cured, you can use the filler to recreate
what's missing.
I think the stuff is magic. It costs a ton of money, but if you use it
to fix even a single piece of hard-to-match (or hard-to-remove)
millwork, it pays for itself rather rapidly.
That said, I must point out one thing (this is rec.woodworking, after
all)... if the repair is big, or if you *can* replace or reproduce the
piece using real wood, without too much work or materials cost, do it...
it's probably faster than mixing up the filler, waiting for it to cure,
coming back and shaping/surfacing it, etc. Try it, and you'll see what
I mean. It comes down to an evaluation of the millwork cost vs. the
putty cost, and the removal/repair/replacement time vs. the
mixing/puttying/shaping time.
Duke of URL's
>I have a 150 year old house with lots of trim, and have had lots (way
>too much, really) opportunity for trying out different methods of fixing
>rotten wood. By far my favorite is Abatron's "Wood Epox". They have
>two products, both based on a 50-50 two part epoxy system.
I'm sure it was an over site that Tony forgot the URL.
Keith Bohn
dr...@my-dejanews.com
"Morris N. Reinisch" <shr...@mail2.nai.net> wrote:
> I've got some trim at the front of my house that has some dry rot. On one
> of the home repair shows, the host scraped away the wood that was dry
> hearing things or is that correct? Can you actually use auto body
> compound to fill in the void caused by dry rot? Why would you want to use
> that instead of more traditional "plastic wood" or some other wood
> substitute that you can get from a hardware store? I am reluctant to go to
> an auto supply store to fix a problem with my wood trim.
> Any help or comments would be appreciated.
> Thanks.
> Morris
>
You need to go to http://www.rotdoctor.com/ You can check the data on the
products for rot repair, but you need also to read the test section where we
compared the Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer (CPES) to competitive products.
In those tests, product "A" was Abatrons Liquid Wood and product B was Git
Rot. You can see that they did not even come close to CPES in wood
penetration, which is the essence of rot repair.
The wood that is rotted is wood that the rot fungi have devastated. The actual
fungi (or their reproductive spores) are at the bad wood/good wood interface,
and you need to reach that location if you want to stop the rot. You can tear
out the rotted wood that you can see, but the fungi and/or spores may still be
there waiting until conditions are right for continued growth. And there may
well be rot that you cannot see. Whatever you use needs to penetrate to that
level.
We didn't test the Minwax product because it is acrylic-based and does not
have the strength and endurance of epoxy.
Just filling with Bondo or other fillers is a temporary measure. You may get
lucky because the fungi are dead or environmental conditions have changed and
rot growth is no longer possible. But usually the rot will eventually return.
The Rot Doctor
http://www.rotdoctor.com
E-mail: dr...@rotdoctor.com
Phone: 206 783 0307
Fax: 206 783 0582
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Robert Klein
To add footnote here. Keep in mind that it is the wet/dry cycle that
is the spawnning ground for the wood devouring fungi. Once dry the
fungi becomes dormant. Therefore it is most important to eliminate or
kill the fungi before repairs. If not the reintorduction of moisture
will reactivate the fungi and the problem will continue unseen.
>The wood that is rotted is wood that the rot fungi have devastated. The actual
>fungi (or their reproductive spores) are at the bad wood/good wood interface,
>and you need to reach that location if you want to stop the rot. You can tear
>out the rotted wood that you can see, but the fungi and/or spores may still be
>there waiting until conditions are right for continued growth. And there may
>well be rot that you cannot see. Whatever you use needs to penetrate to that
>level.
>The Rot Doctor
Regards,
Robert Klein
Robert's Antiques and Restoration
2500 North T Street
Pensacola, FL 32505 USA
Larry Jaques
>I had a solid wood front entry door that was badly weathered and starting to
--snip--
>scraped out the damaged part and filled it with Bondo, sanded and painted over it
I'll bet that pink putty looks grand on the mahogany door, too!
Oh, you PAINTED IT?!? Nevahmind...
===========================================================
Save the Endangered Boullions from being cubed!
http://diversify.com/ljaques/stees.html Hilarious T-shirts online
===========================================================
*Casey*
this may be confusing, but WTH: The advantage that the epoxy wood
consolidants/fillers like Abatron have over a polyester filler like Bondo is
this: the long working time allows the abatron liquid to fully penetrate and
harden rotted areas. This is not possible with Bondo (or polyester liquid
resin) which requires that the area be taken back to solid wood. To save a
bit of money, one can use the liquid Abatron to consolidate dry rot, and
then use the much cheaper Bondo for the gross filling. The labor savings
here is quite noticeable, too. While Bondo still may crack, it won't be as
great a problem when used thus. Over an improper prep job, bondo doesn't
bond at all, and may peel up in sheets or pop out in great chunks.
Casey
George Nazarko <@mail.tds.net> wrote in message
<6pjgte$k...@news2.tds.net>...
>
>Paul Fishbein wrote in message ...
>> You can use auto body filler for wood repair but I wouldn't recommend
>>it. My experience with it is that it tends to be too fluid to stay in one
>>place until it cures for a few minutes. Unfortunately, the working time
is
>>fairly short.
>
>Make "forms" for it out of tape, always, of course remembering that it will
>flow downhill.
>
>> It sands smoothly but is harder to do so than wood fillers.
>
>Not if you use the aggressive grinders used in auto body work.
>
>>I also found that it does not stick to properly prepared wood as well as
>>dedicated wood fillers. I have only used the Bondo brand filler. The
>fumes
>>from the monomer are almost choking and quite irritating to the eyes.
This
>>may not be a problem for you since you intend to use it outdoors.
>
>I'd still use the charcoal filters, becuase you're going to be working
close
>up and personal.
>
>> I would recommend the epoxy products made by Abatron.
>
>$$$$$????
>
>Fiberglass is good.
>
>
dr...@my-dejanews.com
"*Casey*" <cas...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> this may be confusing, but WTH: The advantage that the epoxy wood
> consolidants/fillers like Abatron have over a polyester filler like Bondo is
> this: the long working time allows the abatron liquid to fully penetrate and
> harden rotted areas. This is not possible with Bondo (or polyester liquid
> resin) which requires that the area be taken back to solid wood. To save a
> bit of money, one can use the liquid Abatron to consolidate dry rot, and
> then use the much cheaper Bondo for the gross filling. The labor savings
> here is quite noticeable, too. While Bondo still may crack, it won't be as
> great a problem when used thus. Over an improper prep job, bondo doesn't
> bond at all, and may peel up in sheets or pop out in great chunks.
> Casey
>
Again, see the product testing on http:www.rotdoctor.com/ Abatron's Liquid
Wood hardened before the test amount could be absorbed by the wood. It was
little better than using a standard epoxy resin, like West (which was our
test resin). All you are doing with Abatron's product is filling a vacant
space. In many cases, you are not getting to the place where the rot fungi
are active. Git Rot had the same problem. Only the Clear Penetrating Epoxy
Sealer (CPES) penetratred far enough to follow rot channels and reach the
good wood/bad wood interface, which is where the rot fungi are.
The Rot Doctor
http://www.rotdoctor.com
E-mail: dr...@rotdoctor.com
Phone: 206 783 0307
Fax: 206 783 0582
> George Nazarko <@mail.tds.net> wrote in message
> <6pjgte$k...@news2.tds.net>...
> >
> >Paul Fishbein wrote in message ...
> >> You can use auto body filler for wood repair but I wouldn't recommend
> >>it. My experience with it is that it tends to be too fluid to stay in one
> >>place until it cures for a few minutes. Unfortunately, the working time
> is
> >>fairly short.
> >
> >Make "forms" for it out of tape, always, of course remembering that it will
> >flow downhill.
> >
> >> It sands smoothly but is harder to do so than wood fillers.
> >
> >Not if you use the aggressive grinders used in auto body work.
> >
> >>I also found that it does not stick to properly prepared wood as well as
> >>dedicated wood fillers. I have only used the Bondo brand filler. The
> >fumes
> >>from the monomer are almost choking and quite irritating to the eyes.
> This
> >>may not be a problem for you since you intend to use it outdoors.
> >
> >I'd still use the charcoal filters, becuase you're going to be working
> close
> >up and personal.
> >
> >> I would recommend the epoxy products made by Abatron.
> >
> >$$$$$????
> >
> >Fiberglass is good.
> >
> >
>
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Dave Carnell
Morris N. Reinisch wrote:
> I've got some trim at the front of my house that has some dry rot.
After you dig out the dry rot you want to be sure to kill what is left of the
cancer before you put in any filler. Ethylene glycol auto antifreeze is most
effective at this. It is aggressively absorbed by the wood. Also, you can
paint surrounding areas with it for prevention and it goes through latex or oil
paints into the wood without lifting the paint. Once you have eliminated the
cancer, auto body putty is a good filler for small areas.
Dave Carnell <http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell>
bigc...@pagesz.net
of that, I'm inclined to suggest that the absence of a URL might also be
an under site or short sited. ;-)
Chris Hubner
bigc...@pagesz.net
animals, pets and children who are attracted by its sweet taste!
Tony Berke
>
> Again, see the product testing on http:www.rotdoctor.com/ Abatron's Liquid
> Wood hardened before the test amount could be absorbed by the wood. It was
> little better than using a standard epoxy resin, like West (which was our
> test resin). All you are doing with Abatron's product is filling a vacant
> space. In many cases, you are not getting to the place where the rot fungi
> are active. Git Rot had the same problem. Only the Clear Penetrating Epoxy
> Sealer (CPES) penetratred far enough to follow rot channels and reach the
> good wood/bad wood interface, which is where the rot fungi are.
The product looks interesting, and the testing methodology looks
reasonable, but I must point out that WoodEpox consolidant can be
thinned, and may work better in your tests that way. I know I thinned
the stuff a bit when I fixed the worst sections of my fir gutters. I
also drilled a bunch of small holes through the punkiest sections to
help the stuff penetrate. The thickest section of these gutters was
about 1.5", and the thinned consolidant soaked right through the punky
stuff and out the other side.
I think I'll try a version of your test at various thinning ratios on
Abatron's product, just to see if it's really working the way I think it
is.
Thanks,
Tony Berke
Perkins Hill Engineering
Dr...@rotdoctor.com
Dave Carnell <davec...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
> Morris N. Reinisch wrote:
>
> > I've got some trim at the front of my house that has some dry rot.
>
> After you dig out the dry rot you want to be sure to kill what is left of the
> cancer before you put in any filler. Ethylene glycol auto antifreeze is most
> effective at this. It is aggressively absorbed by the wood. Also, you can
> paint surrounding areas with it for prevention and it goes through latex or oil
> paints into the wood without lifting the paint. Once you have eliminated the
> cancer, auto body putty is a good filler for small areas.
>
> Dave Carnell <http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell>
>
>
Ethylene glycol is absorbed and will help kill the rot fungi, but it adds or
restores no strength to the wood. Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer (CPES) is
also aggressively absorbed (as our testing shows), helps kill the rot fungi,
AND because it is a premimum epoxy it restores strength to the rotted wood.
Epoxy fillers can then be added, which bond with the CPES impregnated wood.
The Rot Doctor
http://www.rotdoctor.com
E-mail: dr...@rotdoctor.com
Phone: 206 783 0307
Fax: 206 783 0582
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Tony Berke
>
> In article <35C099...@Perkins-Hill.com>,
> Tony...@Perkins-Hill.com wrote:
> > dr...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > >
<snip>
I wrote:
> > The product looks interesting, and the testing methodology looks
> > reasonable, but I must point out that WoodEpox consolidant can be
> > thinned,
DrRot wrote:
<snip>
> Tony, You could be right, but now what you are doing is engineering your own
> product. Abatron makes no point of suggesting the thinning process, at least
> not in the literature I've received from them. You should test for rigidity
> and brittleness as well.
Not to beat this issue to death (more), but my first purchase from
Abatron (four years ago) was of their "five gallon kit", which consisted
of 1 gal of each part of the putty, 1 gal of each part of the
consolidant, and 1 gallon of "AbSolve", which was labelled "general
purpose THINNER and solvent for expoxies and other liquid polymers".
I took the hint. I ofthen thin the consolidant, and I also work a very
small amount of the stuff into the putty if I'm going to be spreading it
with a joint knife... it spreads better that way, with less tendency to
pull away from the wood when spread thinly.
> Ours is pre-formulated and tested. Why bother testing your own?
'Cuz I have some! Both their product and yours cost a lot of money, and
they both go a long way. I have quite a bit of my two gallons left, I'm
a scientist, and your experiment looks fun.