Johnson's wax and silicones
Scott216
Does Johnsons Paste Wax have silicones in it? I heard that silicones can
wreak havoc when applying a finish to wood.
Scott Goldthwaite
Portland, OR
Go for it, it's later than you think!
sha...@mail.webspam.net
Scott216 wrote:
>
> Does Johnsons Paste Wax have silicones in it? I heard that silicones can
> wreak havoc when applying a finish to wood.
>
> Scott Goldthwaite
Johnson's Paste Wax has no silicones in it (I believe that Turtle Wax
does). Johnson's Pledge -- the furniture polish -- does contain
silicones and wax. The paste wax is an excellent mixture of waxes. I
think that it is highly regarded by those who use waxes (I do not use
wax on the things that I work on, but that is no yardstick that you
might go by).
Silicones add to the challenges of getting a finish to behave on wood.
They cause "fish-eyes". A DejaNews search on the word "fisheye" (and any
of it's different spellings, dashes, etc. will yeild you a wealth of
useful information as to what they are, and what you can do to deal with
them and avoid them.
I always (unless I forget to) add fish-eye remover to my finishes.
Sometimes, even this preventative measure does not work.
In closing, the Paste Wax is silicone-free.
--
(To reply, change "webspam" to "webspan" in my e-mail address.)
-------
Daniel
/ `-' ) ,,,
| IU U||||||||[:::]
\_.-.( '''
Michael John Hide
sha...@mail.webspam.net wrote:
Actually as best I know adding fisheye killer /eliminator to the
finish when it is not requird is asking for trouble ,as the product
includes silicones .In this case you are introducing the problem into
an otherwise benign situation.
mjh
Charles Hammond
read the label it should say on there if there is.
macks
>Scott216 wrote:
>
> Does Johnsons Paste Wax have silicones in it? I heard that silicones > can wreak havoc when applying a finish to wood.
I don't believe so. Pledge and some specialty furniture oils have
silicones in them. Xerox fuser oil has loods of silicone oil,
so do some other kinds of lubricants.
Silicone over an existing, intact good finish won't do damage.
Most of the problem comes when you try to refinish after some
person has applied silicone oil. Silicones prevent finishes
like lacquer from adhering properly.
Silicones on a cracked finish can accelerate degeneration of
the old bad finish. Spray furniture wax (silicones or not)
applied to a wax only finish can remove some of the wax finish,
or cause dirt and oils to mix into the surface film
fouling things up a lot.
Some silicone oils actually evaporate at room temperature and
leave minor amounts of silicone residue (like fuser oils),
others tend to remain. If the oil mixes into surface wax, it
doesn't have a chance to leave.
jim mcnamara
Kevin Miller
In article <19970518052...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, scot...@aol.com says...
>
>Does Johnsons Paste Wax have silicones in it? I heard that silicones can
>wreak havoc when applying a finish to wood.
I don't know if it does or not, but you would apply the wax over a finish,
not under it anyway so it shouldn't be a problem.
If you're thinking in terms of waxing your tablesaw/othertool top and are
worried about it getting in the wood, I can only say that I've used Johnson's
for years and never had a problem. After it's dry, the amount the would rub
off on a board passing over it is so minute that I've never noticed any
difference...
...Kevin
John Hofstad-Parkhill
> Does Johnsons Paste Wax have silicones in it? I heard that silicones can
> wreak havoc when applying a finish to wood.
Well, this is one I'd like to debunk, but don't hold out much hope. But
let's examine the whole picture for just a second:
1). Any wax applied to the surface of the table leaves a thin (few
molecules per Nick Engler's Woodworking Wisdom) film.
2). Any individual that takes a cutoff from a table saw and assembles it
without further preparation is already not concerend with the quality if
the finish, or a finish at all.
Or - to put it another way, at the very least there will be scraping and/or
sanding and/or some work done on the surface of the wood prior to applying
any finish. Even if you're some miracle worker and never have to clean up
glue squeeze out, something will be done.
Finally, I used turtle wax, and continue to do so. I'm not sure if it has
silicone, and don't care. I've never had problems with the finishes I've
used, including tung oil, linseed oil, either of those mixed with poly or
spar varnish, and poly alone. In addition, I regularly use minwax paste wax
near glue lines so I can easily clean up the squeeze out. That never
interferes with, nor damages the finishes I use. I use Top-Cote for the
cast iron on my table saw and jointer because I prefer it's performance and
ease of application, but use turtle wax on my table board and outfeed
table.
John Paquay
In article <01bc640d$55eed840$339e09ce@horizons>, jhpar...@sihope.com says...
>
>
>Well, this is one I'd like to debunk, but don't hold out much hope. But
>let's examine the whole picture for just a second:
>
>silicone, and don't care. I've never had problems with the finishes I've
>used, including tung oil, linseed oil, either of those mixed with poly or
>spar varnish, and poly alone. In addition, I regularly use minwax paste wax
>near glue lines so I can easily clean up the squeeze out. That never
>interferes with, nor damages the finishes I use. I use Top-Cote for the
>cast iron on my table saw and jointer because I prefer it's performance and
>ease of application, but use turtle wax on my table board and outfeed
>table.
You can't debunk it because it's valid. Scott Goldthwaite's original
question concerned *spraying* finishes on surfaces contaminated with
silicones. Try spraying lacquer, either nitro or water-based, over a
surface coated with wax or silicone, and you'll have fisheyes that
would make your hair stand on end. Brushed and wiped solvent-based
finishes are less prone to this problem, but some will still fisheye
pretty severely. Water-based finishes are particularly susceptible,
regardless of application method.
That's the "whole picture"...
--
John Paquay
Dept. of Physics, Purdue University
j...@physics.purdue.edu, j...@belex.mdn.com
http://www.physics.purdue.edu/~jep/cshop.html
--------------------------------------------------------
Robert Klein
On 18 May 1997 10:08:26 EDT, sha...@mail.webspam.net wrote:
>Scott216 wrote:
>>
>> Does Johnsons Paste Wax have silicones in it? I heard that silicones can
>> wreak havoc when applying a finish to wood.
>>
>> Scott Goldthwaite
>
>Johnson's Paste Wax has no silicones in it
> Daniel
>
====================================
This is correct.
In addition; Staples Paste Wax, Butchers Paste Wax, Behlen Blue Label
Paste Wax, Rennaissance Micto-Crystalline Wax, and Goddard's Cabinet
Makers Wax contain no silicones. Nor does my favorite, Beaute Satin
Cream Wax from Roger A. Reed Inc., PO box 508, Reading, MA 01867.
Silicone can remain even after stripping. After stripping, repeated
wiping with lacquer thinner will help remove the contaminant. Wipe
only in one direction, using one stroke, and never wiping twice with
the same part of the cloth. I usually follow this by wiping with
xylene.
There are additives to put in lacquer to eliminate the fisheye
resulting from contaminated surfaces. The additives (Smoothie,
Flow-Out, FishEye Eliminator) are silicone, they work by altering the
surface energies. I know of only one additive that is not silicone
(Florad 46x? from 3M).
One thing to consider if you do not wish to add silicone to your
coating material is to spray a coat of 2 pound cut shellac as a first
and second coating. You cannot use a brush as it will pick up the
contaminate from the surface and combine it with the shellac coating.
And for those of you who like this type of info:
Tests done on 90 coatings at the Forest Products Lab in Madison, WI.,
using three coats on ponderosa pine sapwood after 14 days in a chamber
kept at 80 degrees F with the RH between 30% an 90% for the duration
of the test showed these results----------- shellac registered a
Moisture Excluding Effectiveness factor of 42 (clear) and 46 (orange)
For comparasion, linseed and tung oil had a rating of 0, poly gloss
varnish 31, semi gloss lacquer 19, paraffin wax 69, acrylic gloss
varnish 10, alkyd varnish 11, polyurethane satin varnish 41. 0 being
the least effective and 100 the highest. Sheathing epoxy (clear) held
the higest rating of 91 after 14 days.
Regards,
Robert Klein
Robert's Antiques and Restoration
Pensacola, FL 32505 USA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you can't find time to do it right the first time,
how are you going to find time to do it over?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bobk...@gulf.net
rober...@aol.com
Michael John Hide
"John Hofstad-Parkhill" <jhpar...@sihope.com> wrote:
>> Does Johnsons Paste Wax have silicones in it? I heard that silicones can
>> wreak havoc when applying a finish to wood.
>
>Well, this is one I'd like to debunk, but don't hold out much hope. But
>let's examine the whole picture for just a second:
>
>1). Any wax applied to the surface of the table leaves a thin (few
>molecules per Nick Engler's Woodworking Wisdom) film.
>
>2). Any individual that takes a cutoff from a table saw and assembles it
>without further preparation is already not concerend with the quality if
>the finish, or a finish at all.
>
>Or - to put it another way, at the very least there will be scraping and/or
>sanding and/or some work done on the surface of the wood prior to applying
>any finish. Even if you're some miracle worker and never have to clean up
>glue squeeze out, something will be done.
>
>Finally, I used turtle wax, and continue to do so. I'm not sure if it has
>silicone, and don't care. I've never had problems with the finishes I've
>used, including tung oil, linseed oil, either of those mixed with poly or
>spar varnish, and poly alone. In addition, I regularly use minwax paste wax
>near glue lines so I can easily clean up the squeeze out. That never
>interferes with, nor damages the finishes I use. I use Top-Cote for the
>cast iron on my table saw and jointer because I prefer it's performance and
>ease of application, but use turtle wax on my table board and outfeed
>table.
>
The finish I was referring to was furniture grade laquer ,try applying
that over any of the "finishes" you refer to and you are going to have
major problems with fisheye. mjh