Making a Curved Chair Back -- Suggestions Needed

[Douglas Johnson]

I am in the process of making some kitchen stools to go with some old chairs.
Here:
http://douglasjohnson.org/pictures/Chair.jpg

you can see one of the chairs. I am having trouble making the curved top piece
on the back. It is 4" high, 15" long, and 1/2" thick. The back curves about
1 1/4" in the center.

I tried bandsawing a piece out of thick stock and this is what I ended up with:

http://douglasjohnson.org/pictures/Back.jpg

Kind of wigglie. I guess I could try again, cutting more carefully, but I
thought I would see if folks here had any ideas. It is too high for pattern
routing, but maybe I could make it narrower to get it in range of a bit from
each edge.

Anyway, suggestions would be welcome.

Side note: The chairs were made by my great-great-great-grandfather, John Van
Dyke ca. 1850 at a farm outside Toledo, Illinois.

Thanks,
Doug

[Mark Ohlund]

Doug:

Essentially, there are two ways to bend wood. The "old fashioned way"
was to steam bend the wood by heating it in a steamer and then moving
the steamed piece rapidly to a form which would hold in in the desired
position for several days. Once the water had dried from the wood, it
would loosen in the form and be removed with (mostly) the intended shape
intact. This method ideally uses wood that has been rived or split with
the grain. This method keeps the grain of the wood aligned with the bend
and ensures strength.

The second method is bent laminate method and is probably most
applicable to your situation. This involves resawing thin strips of the
wood, sanding or planing them to 1/8" to 3/16" thick, applying glue to
the respective layers and then placing the sandwich of layers in the
intended form. Once the glue dries, you then have the desired shape.

You've obviously got the bandsaw, so you can do the resawing. You just
need a way to get the layers to a consistent thickness, either via a
wide-belt sander or a planer or through handwork.

~Mark.

[SonomaProducts.com]

On Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:34:40 PM UTC-7, Douglas Johnson wrote:
> I am in the process of making some kitchen stools to go with some old chairs.

Two alternate methods as mentioned, steam bending and laminating. Bothe of these will provide a stronger piece. Curve cutting into a face really sets the wood up for fracturing quite easily.

If you want to band saw it, one trick is to cut grooves for the saw tro follow. When you want to do a resaw, you can run a board edgwise through the table saw with the blade raised as high as possible on both edges. Then you just resaw out the center part that is left and it is real easy to follow the cut.

Therefore, I would assume you could cresate a router template and route a groove of the curve on each edge and then resaw the curve on the bandsaw. You'll have to sand\scrap or even shave the excess off buy you will have the routed passes to follow.

[Father Haskell]

On Aug 7, 3:34 pm, Douglas Johnson <p...@classtech.com> wrote:
>
> Side note:  The chairs were made by my great-great-great-grandfather, John Van
> Dyke ca. 1850 at a farm outside Toledo, Illinois.

There's your clue. The slats were cut green and set up in
molds until they dried.

[cedar...@aol.com]

I agree with the previous replies.

Though not quite the same, should you ever need to make slat backs, for slat back chairs, here's an easily made slat back press for simple slats. http://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/7735897278/in/photostream

Sonny

[dadiOH]

Douglas Johnson wrote:
> I am in the process of making some kitchen stools to go with some old
> chairs. Here:
> http://douglasjohnson.org/pictures/Chair.jpg
>
> you can see one of the chairs. I am having trouble making the curved
> top piece on the back. It is 4" high, 15" long, and 1/2" thick. The
> back curves about 1 1/4" in the center.
>
> I tried bandsawing a piece out of thick stock and this is what I
> ended up with:
>
> http://douglasjohnson.org/pictures/Back.jpg
>
> Kind of wigglie. I guess I could try again, cutting more carefully,
> but I thought I would see if folks here had any ideas. It is too
> high for pattern routing, but maybe I could make it narrower to get
> it in range of a bit from each edge.
>
> Anyway, suggestions would be welcome.

Yeah, cut more carefully. And cut just outside the line. If you have a
drill press or other way of using a tall and large diameter sanding drum -
mine is 6" x 3" - you can set it up with a small fence and sand between drum
and fence to get the faces nice and even. They can also be rigged with a
washer or some such to use as a bearing against a template.

Another way is to glue coarse sand paper to something flexible - laminate
works - and hand sand with that.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[whit3rd]

On Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:34:40 PM UTC-7, Douglas Johnson wrote:

> I am in the process of making some kitchen stools to go with some old chairs.
>
> Here:
>
> http://douglasjohnson.org/pictures/Chair.jpg
>
>
>
> you can see one of the chairs. I am having trouble making the curved top piece
>

> on the back....

> I tried bandsawing a piece out of thick stock and this is what I ended up with:
>
>
>
> http://douglasjohnson.org/pictures/Back.jpg

If you start with a log, and split out a board (sawn lumber is not good for
this), it'll bend fine when green or if steamed.

It has to be straight-grain, knot free wood.

So, find a tree service or landscaper and ask 'em if they have any likely logs.
It helps to ask after a windstorm...

[Michael Joel]

You can make a steamer pretty easy with some plywood.

I also have wondered why couldn't you put the board in a container and
add boiling water. Insulate and let sit for about an hour then try
bending it? I have bent some very thin wood using boiling water....

[Douglas Johnson]

Mark Ohlund <ohl...@woodwrecker.com> wrote:

>Essentially, there are two ways to bend wood. The "old fashioned way"
>was to steam bend the wood by heating it in a steamer and then moving
>the steamed piece rapidly to a form which would hold in in the desired
>position for several days.

It looks like I am going to try steam bending. I'll keep the group updated.

>The second method is bent laminate method and is probably most
>applicable to your situation.

I've done bent laminates. It certainly would work here, but don't think the
laminate seams would look right in these stools with those chairs.

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. Into the shop to try them...

-- Doug

[Dave]

On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 08:47:32 -0500, Douglas Johnson

>It looks like I am going to try steam bending. I'll keep the group updated.

Steam bending is not all that difficult. A large enough ABS pipe to
hold your wood, a sufficient steam supply and you're about ready to
go. You can find pretty much all the info you need online.

You can read all you need to know right here.
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=45869&cat=

[Jerry Ohio-2]

I put my wood in a roasting pan & boil on the stove then put in my
forms. Then stick them in the oven at 250 for an hour or until done.
Oak will turn black so be ready to sand al day. I've even put old table
tops in a bath tub of hot water to pull veneer off.Some times a kitchen
spatula is needed to loosed the old hide glue.

Jerry
http://community.webtv.net/Jerryohio-2/VINNIE

[Dave Balderstone]

In article <947-502...@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net>, Jerry Ohio-2

<Jerry...@webtv.net> wrote:

> Oak will turn black so be ready to sand al day.

Or use distilled water and a stainless steel pan.

--
Woodworking and more at <http://www.woodenwabbits.com>

[CW]

"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
news:090820121324165325%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca...

In article <947-502...@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net>, Jerry Ohio-2
<Jerry...@webtv.net> wrote:

> Oak will turn black so be ready to sand al day.

Or use distilled water and a stainless steel pan.

====================================================================================================

I was told by a professional trim carpenter one time soak your wood in hot
water and Downy fabric softener. He claimed it was much better than steam,
plus you don't have to build a steamer. It softens the fibers in the wood
same as it does for cloth. Never tried it but many people (on the web) seem
to agree. Google it.

[kayl...@aol.com]

Best way to make these is to use steam to bend the wood. There are lots of
videos on youtube that explain the process of making a home steamer, as well
as the process times etc. Good luck with the project!

[cedar...@aol.com]

On Thursday, August 9, 2012 5:51:11 PM UTC-5, CW wrote:
soak your wood in hot water and Downy fabric softener. He claimed it was much better than steam, plus you don't have to build a steamer. It softens the fibers in the wood same as it does for cloth. Never tried it but many people (on the web) seem to agree. Google it.

Glycerine is a product for softening. It is used to soften and maintain the softness of cane during the caning of chairs. It is sometimes used for softening other reeds, white oak strips for weaving chairs, etc., also.

*When finished caning, add detergent to the water for the kids (and yourself!) to blow bubbles.

Sonny

[Father Haskell]

On Aug 7, 10:43 pm, Michael Joel <no_email_please@void_void.void>
wrote:

Thin, narrow strips, such as violin ribs, you can bend over
the nozzle of a hot air gun. Laying a damp paper towel
over the nozzle helps steam the wood on the compression
side and also keeps the metal from staining acidic woods.

[Steve Turner]

Sorry if this is a bit late to the game, but have a look at the jig I made to
perform this very process on one of the rocking chairs I recently made:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157631324531888/

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

[Steve Turner]

Oh sorry; the photos are posted in the reverse order that you need to view them
in order to understand the process. I'll see if that can be corrected...

[Father Haskell]

On Aug 8, 3:14 pm, Jerryohi...@webtv.net (Jerry Ohio-2) wrote:
> I put my wood in a roasting pan & boil on the stove then put in my
> forms.  Then stick them in the oven at 250 for an hour or until done.
> Oak will turn black so be ready to sand al day.

Or just leave it if you want an ebonized finish, killing
two birds with one stone.

> I've even put old table
> tops in a bath tub of hot water to pull veneer off.Some times a kitchen
> spatula is needed to loosed the old hide glue.

Hot iron and a damp rag.

[Douglas Johnson]

Douglas Johnson <po...@classtech.com> wrote:

>Mark Ohlund <ohl...@woodwrecker.com> wrote:
>
>>Essentially, there are two ways to bend wood. The "old fashioned way"
>>was to steam bend the wood by heating it in a steamer and then moving
>>the steamed piece rapidly to a form which would hold in in the desired
>>position for several days.
>
>It looks like I am going to try steam bending. I'll keep the group updated.

I've given steam bending a try. It sort of works with kiln dried maple. Lee
Valley says that air dried is necessary for good steam bending.

Does anyone have a source for air dried maple? Preferably curly?

Thanks,
Doug

[Sonny]

On Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:38:06 PM UTC-5, Douglas Johnson wrote:
> Does anyone have a source for air dried maple? Preferably curly?

In my old shop. Salvaged red maple, with some birdseye and figuring, here and there, from an old house built ~~1900, I suppose. The lumber is 2X4 roof rafters and 1X4 cross pieces for wooden shingle attaching. Can't tell what figuring might be there, until the surface is cleaned, sanded or planed, etc. It's rough cut.

Here are 2 projects I may with some of the wood.
The chair on the left - http://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/4032552238/in/photostream The top of the backrest is laminate bent, but didn't attempt steaming the strips, first. Back then, this was my first attempt at laminate bending and it went fairly well. I've since learned better and there should be no problem with laminate bending of this wood. I've steam bent some for another project and had no problems.

This pic, plus 2 more - http://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/4043071185/in/photostream/

Sonny

[G. Ross]

Sonny wrote: > On Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:38:06 PM UTC-5, Douglas Johnson wrote: >> Does anyone have a source for air dried maple? Preferably curly? > In my old shop. Salvaged red maple, with some birdseye and figuring, here and there, from an old house built ~~1900, I suppose. The lumber is 2X4 roof rafters and 1X4 cross pieces for wooden shingle attaching. Can't tell what figuring might be there, until the surface is cleaned, sanded or planed, etc. It's rough cut. > Here are 2 projects I may with some of the wood. > The chair on the left - http://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/4032552238/in/photostream The top of the backrest is laminate bent, but didn't attempt steaming the strips, first. Back then, this was my first attempt at laminate bending and it went fairly well. I've since learned better and there should be no problem with laminate bending of this wood. I've steam bent some for another project and had no problems. > This pic, plus 2 more - http://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/4043071185/in/photostream/ > Sonny Love your sturdy flowing style. GW Ross Cover me -- I'm changing lanes.

[Sonny]

On Thursday, April 11, 2013 2:58:59 PM UTC-5, G. Ross wrote:
> Love your sturdy flowing style.

Thanks. I won't take total credit for that. I've always had the idea there aren't too many straight lines in nature, so make things with curves, bends and such.

My early stuff was big & bulky and that got old, fast. More lighter weight and/or an airy appeal seems to work better.

Sonny

[Douglas Johnson]

Sonny <cedar...@aol.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:38:06 PM UTC-5, Douglas Johnson wrote:
>> Does anyone have a source for air dried maple? Preferably curly?
>
>In my old shop.

Is that an offer? I only need a few board feet.
Thanks,
Doug

[Sonny]

On Sunday, April 14, 2013 1:48:44 PM UTC-5, Douglas Johnson wrote:
> Is that an offer? I only need a few board feet. Thanks, Doug

Absolutely. How many chairs? How long each board? 2X4s or 1X4s or some of each.

I can even try a bandsaw cutting, to see the results. With your center deflection 1 1/4", a 2X4 might be wide enough to accommodate that deflection, with the remainder being 3/4" thick, just barely. If your finished chair backs are 5/8" thick, a bandsaw cutting would accommodate a thick enough chair board.

I took 16 pics of some lumber, I got out, all pieces are/were 12' long. The 2X stock has been jointed on both sides, but could use a tad more planing to make the faces about perfect. A 2' long 1X4 board was cut and one face & both edges were jointed. Here are a few pics.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/

Send me an email at - cedarsonny at Aye Oh eL dot com - and I'll send you the rest of the pictures. And can easily supply more, if need be.

Sonny

[Douglas Johnson]

Sonny <cedar...@aol.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, April 14, 2013 1:48:44 PM UTC-5, Douglas Johnson wrote:
>> Is that an offer? I only need a few board feet. Thanks, Doug
>
>Absolutely. How many chairs? How long each board? 2X4s or 1X4s or some of each.

I wanted to say that the spirit of the wrec is alive -- woodworkers helping each
other out. Many thanks, Sonny. I'll post pictures when I get it done, but
don't hold your breath.

-- Doug