Japanese Chisels on a Tormek?
Murray Dawson
Going through past posts, it would seem so, but the Tormek has a 10" wheel
which reduces the size of the hollow grind (it works out to a 2.7 thou deep
hollow on a 25deg bevel on a 1/2" wide butt chisel). Will this seriously
undermine the more brittle hard lamination on the back?
Its just that I love my Tormek, and I sharpen everything on it with
consistent razor sharp results. I'm thinking about branching out into the
Japanese chisels, but with them seems to come the expensive/messy
waterstones and a different sharpening regime.
Cheers from Oz
Murray Dawson
Nachas
Do it, Murray, and don't worry about it. Actually the slight hollow grind of
the Tormek will make it much easier to work the chisels on a fine waterstone
for the ultimate in a working edge.
Martin Cohn
Jim Stuard
If you follow Leonard Lee's advice from his sharpening book, you
should use only waterstones to sharpen japenese tools. Using any other
stones can cause microscopic fractures in the edge that may lead to
crumbling or premature failure. My guess is that would apply to the
grinding process too. I paraphrase but those were his words not mine.
Personally, I love Tormek grinders. Hate the price but they do a bang
up job on my Two Cherries chisels.
-Jim Stuard
"Murray Dawson" <Murray...@anu.edu.au> wrote in message news:<3cad30f2$1...@clarion.carno.net.au>...
CW
"Jim Stuard" <ejst...@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:223d5cc.02040...@posting.google.com...
Steve B.
microscope pictures to prove it. However, IMHO, the Tormek IS a waterstone.
Steve
www.sharpeningmadeeasy.com
Rick Stein
> Lee generally knows what he is talking about, and has the electron
> microscope pictures to prove it. However, IMHO, the Tormek IS a
> waterstone.
True, but I think the question has more to do with hollow grinding on a
round wheel like the Tormek, or a flat grind which you get with a stone
or the Makita.
Rick
>>
>
Wayne Cannon
path of the cut, it makes more sense to me to sharpen chisels with a flat
grind, and not a hollow grind. --Wayne
Murray Dawson wrote:
--
(Change "nospam" to "wcannon" for e-mail)
Layne
The stiff, high carbon steel (and brittle) edge relies on the softer,
more flexible iron backing for strength. My guess is putting a hollow
ground on the edge will take away a disproportionate amount of the
softer iron backing and compromise the integrity of the edge because
it won't have enough support. Try giving Japan Woodworker a call --
(800) 537-7820 -- as they sell Japanese chisels and the Tormek. They
should be able to answer your questions.
> Japanese chisels, but with them seems to come the expensive/messy
> waterstones and a different sharpening regime.
Compared to the Tormek system Japanese waterstones are cheap! :-)
Layne
Steve Knight
>He actually wrote that? What a crock.
japanese chisels are far harder then most steel. diamond stones can chip them up
I know from experience. Plus since the steel is laminated the hollow grind is
removing the iron more then the steel. japanese chisels sharpen fast anyway.
--
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Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com
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gooddeal...@knight-toolworks.com
Subject: subscribe
Steve Knight
>Its just that I love my Tormek, and I sharpen everything on it with
>consistent razor sharp results. I'm thinking about branching out into the
>Japanese chisels, but with them seems to come the expensive/messy
>waterstones and a different sharpening regime.
If you only use your tormek to sharpen (not using waterstones or SS or whatever
to finish the edge don't waste your time.
If you only use the tormek to sharpen your tools are not sharp. razor sharp
is not sharp enough for woodworking. I get a kick out of the razor sharp tormek
owners. I watched norm force his razor sharp chisel through wood on his last
show.
If your going to use japanese tools you need to learn to sharpen.
You call waterstones expensive? compared to the tormek they are dirt cheep.
The tormek just like the makita is a grinder it does not sharpen. If you want
to sharpen you need to take the tools to a finer medium of your choice.
Jammer Six
<luy...@excite.com> wrote:
€Compared to the Tormek system Japanese waterstones are cheap! :-)
Only if your time has no value.
--
"Let's roll!"
-Todd Beamer, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001
toolsforworkingwood
>
> In article <4b322dc7.02040...@posting.google.com>, Layne
> <luy...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> €Compared to the Tormek system Japanese waterstones are cheap! :-)
>
> Only if your time has no value.
The real cost here is that grinding / honing your chisels all the time
by machine wastes a lot of steel. With practice start to finish honing
by hand should take less then two minutes a tool unless you need to work
out a chip (in which case grinding is called for)
http://www.antiquetools.com/sharp
joel
>
> --
> "Let's roll!"
> -Todd Beamer, aboard United Airlines flight 93, September 11, 2001
--
The Museum of Woodworking Tools
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
http://www.antiquetools.com
Steve Knight
>In article <4b322dc7.02040...@posting.google.com>, Layne
><luy...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>€Compared to the Tormek system Japanese waterstones are cheap! :-)
>
>Only if your time has no value.
Huh? I can take my tools from a rough grind to a full polish in 2 minutes back
and front on my great quality waterstones.
the tormek is a grinder it does not sharpen tools.
I sharpen so many irons a week it is hard to keep track. the tormek would
never be fast enough. my waterstones I use now are I bet the worlds fastest
sharpening system. at least the fastest I can find. My method is even faster
then what professional sharpeners use.
toolsforworkingwood
>
> On 6 Apr 2002 19:21:22 GMT, Jammer Six <jam...@invalid.oz.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <4b322dc7.02040...@posting.google.com>, Layne
> ><luy...@excite.com> wrote:
> >
> >€Compared to the Tormek system Japanese waterstones are cheap! :-)
> >
> >Only if your time has no value.
>
> Huh? I can take my tools from a rough grind to a full polish in 2 minutes back
> and front on my great quality waterstones.
> the tormek is a grinder it does not sharpen tools.
> I sharpen so many irons a week it is hard to keep track. the tormek would
> never be fast enough. my waterstones I use now are I bet the worlds fastest
> sharpening system. at least the fastest I can find. My method is even faster
> then what professional sharpeners use.
Don't want to burst your bubble but 2 minutes a blade is about average
using any medium - even my humble King stones and if you want to see
someone sharpen frightenling fast watch Frank Klauz's video on hand
tools.
Joel
>
> --
> Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
> Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
> See http://www.knight-toolworks.com
> For prices and ordering instructions.
> To subscribe to my good deals/beta testing/seconds email list send a email to
> gooddeal...@knight-toolworks.com
> Subject: subscribe
--
Steve Knight
>Steve,
> Don't want to burst your bubble but 2 minutes a blade is about average
>using any medium - even my humble King stones and if you want to see
>someone sharpen frightenling fast watch Frank Klauz's video on hand
>tools.
be I am sharpening 1/4" thick irons and I am flattening the back too. that's the
difference. and I bring them to a full shine in that time. I could knock it down
to 1 minute to get them nice and sharp. this is from a flat but rough grind.
I have used and worn out quite a few waterstones. a king 1000 grit would last
me less then 1 month before I wore it out. a bester lasted me about 2 months.
that's a hell of a lot of sharpening done. these new stones I have are very fast
faster then anything I have seen or used. I don't expect to have to replace them
in even a year of use.
I know how fast most methods cut and I have chosen the fastest I can find. I
would say my shapton cut about 6 times faster then the king stones I used to use
and wear about 1/10 as much or less.
I would not mind having a sharpening race with anyone with a nice thick iron.
I still want to speed up the grinding right now it takes about 2 minutes to
remove any nicks and flatten the back too. check out this fun little test I did
http://www.wwforum.com/cgi-bin/forum_main/handtool.cgi?read=51225
I can't say I could get this time on every tool but I can do these blades fast.
toolsforworkingwood
>
> >Steve,
> > Don't want to burst your bubble but 2 minutes a blade is about average
> >using any medium - even my humble King stones and if you want to see
> >someone sharpen frightenling fast watch Frank Klauz's video on hand
> >tools.
>
> be I am sharpening 1/4" thick irons and I am flattening the back too. that's the
> difference. and I bring them to a full shine in that time. I could knock it down
> to 1 minute to get them nice and sharp. this is from a flat but rough grind.
I know - the thicker iron - maybe takes a little longer but still the
speed is nothing outstanding. good, professioanl, and not something that
one learns overnight but what an experience woodworker learns to
sharpen.
> I have used and worn out quite a few waterstones. a king 1000 grit would last
> me less then 1 month before I wore it out. a bester lasted me about 2 months.
> that's a hell of a lot of sharpening done.
That has to do with the amount of sharpening you do - not the speed of
actualy sharpening. My kings are 20 years old - still going strong (but
I only sharpen some of my stuff on them so they do last longer then they
would otherwise. And I would suggest that my wear is more typical of a
woodworker - you after all sharpen stuff all the time on a production
basis
these new stones I have are very fast
> faster then anything I have seen or used. I don't expect to have to replace them
> in even a year of use.
That's great - One thing they teach you in Japan is that different
metals should be sharpened on differnt materials. I think what you are
seeing is that the shapton stones are less friable than the king stones
and since your very thick irons are mostly soft steel welded to a hard
steel core what you are doing is mostly polishing soft steel. I wouldn't
be surprised that a less friable stone works better for you because a
more friable stone would have a tendency to break off against tough
steel without actually wearing the tough steel away. This would increase
stone wear and decrease overall speed. In your case with the thick iron
the grit stays attached to the less friable stone long enough to do some
work and the bond of the grit is strong enough to resist the touch iron.
> I know how fast most methods cut and I have chosen the fastest I can find. I
> would say my shapton cut about 6 times faster then the king stones I used to use
> and wear about 1/10 as much or less.
I think what you have found is the perfect combination for yourself
given your tehcique and the particular type of irons you hone. Which is
great but it's tough to extrapolate for regular sharpenings on regular
tools - which is pretty darn fast and my stone wear is certainly a lot
less then yours.
> I would not mind having a sharpening race with anyone with a nice thick iron.
My point is that a different iron would behave differently. so with your
thick iron my stones may not be as appropriate. But the kings stones are
wonderful and really fast on regular Japanese chisels (2 minutes or less
easily). and on arkansas stones with a regular western chisel - 2
minutes ore less too.
joel
Lyn J. Mangiameli
I just wouldn't worry about it as long as your wheel is of any size over 9
inches. Yes a flat grind will provide the greatest support to the hard steel
used for the cutting edge, but unless you are dealing with mortise chisels,
the deviation from a flat grind is very very slight when dealing with a 9-10
inch wheel (BTW, the Tormek wheel at maximum is actually slightly less than 10
inches). So, IMO and IME, the hollowness resultant to the Tormek round wheel
is meaningless with respect to the typical Japanese (or any other) chisel that
is less than or equal to 1/4 inch in thickness.
Second, the Tormek is essentially a powered waterstone of 220 grit that when
dressed with their stone grader will provide a very thin surface that is
functinally equivalent to a 1000 grit stone. Obviously, 1000 grit is not sharp
enough for most hand tool purposes. If you use their honing paste (usually on
the 8 inch round leather honing wheel) you can achieve an approximately 6500
grit surface. Very good, but not equal to 8000 waterstones or .5 micron
chromium oxide papers, or submicron diamond powders. What I would do if I was
using my Tormek, is add a final step of briefly honing on an 8000 waterstone
(or maybe Steve's recommended 12000 Shapton) or .5 micron chromium oxide
paper. Particulalry the paper can be used quickly and with little mess or
fuss.
Lyn
Steve Knight
>I know - the thicker iron - maybe takes a little longer but still the
>speed is nothing outstanding. good, professioanl, and not something that
>one learns overnight but what an experience woodworker learns to
>sharpen.
well to me it is impressive. I have went through king stones and bester and now
the shaptons. I find the shapton about 8 times faster then a king. that
impresses me. may not impress you but it does me.
>
>That has to do with the amount of sharpening you do - not the speed of
>actualy sharpening. My kings are 20 years old - still going strong (but
>I only sharpen some of my stuff on them so they do last longer then they
>would otherwise. And I would suggest that my wear is more typical of a
>woodworker - you after all sharpen stuff all the time on a production
>basis
I agree that I wear them out faster then most people. but when I have to
flatten the king every use have to flatten a bester every two to three uses and
have to flatten a shapton every 10 uses that is 10 times less wear then a king
stone.
the speed is so much faster it's hard to measure. When I switched over to a
bester stone It seemed to be about 4 times faster then the king it replaced. the
shapton seems about 2 to 3 times faster then the bester. that is a big
improvement.
>That's great - One thing they teach you in Japan is that different
>metals should be sharpened on differnt materials. I think what you are
>seeing is that the shapton stones are less friable than the king stones
>and since your very thick irons are mostly soft steel welded to a hard
>steel core what you are doing is mostly polishing soft steel. I wouldn't
>be surprised that a less friable stone works better for you because a
>more friable stone would have a tendency to break off against tough
>steel without actually wearing the tough steel away. This would increase
>stone wear and decrease overall speed. In your case with the thick iron
>the grit stays attached to the less friable stone long enough to do some
>work and the bond of the grit is strong enough to resist the touch iron.
yes this is a factor for sure. but most of my irons are solid 0-1 not
laminated. but I sharpen japanese tools and thin irons too. and I find the
stones work just as well for them. I am not the only one who has noticed it.
Most of the king stone usage was on thinner irons and japanese irons. once I
started selling planes I wore it out so fast it was funny.
>I think what you have found is the perfect combination for yourself
>given your tehcique and the particular type of irons you hone. Which is
>great but it's tough to extrapolate for regular sharpenings on regular
>tools - which is pretty darn fast and my stone wear is certainly a lot
>less then yours.
I am not the only one. everyone who has tried them has been pretty impressed. If
You had a set I bet those kings would be road paving fast (G)
>My point is that a different iron would behave differently. so with your
>thick iron my stones may not be as appropriate. But the kings stones are
>wonderful and really fast on regular Japanese chisels (2 minutes or less
>easily). and on arkansas stones with a regular western chisel - 2
>minutes ore less too.
>
Well I sharpen my japanese chisels too. 2 minutes would be slow for my 1" I
would say unless I bunged up the edge (more often then I like to admit) it is
about 20 to 30 seconds for a full sharpen from 1000 to 12000
but what I did not tell is in the time frame I get a far sharper edge then I
used to in more time. My tools are going out flatter sharper and shinier then
ever before in far less time.
toolsforworkingwood
>
> On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 01:38:58 -0500, toolsforworkingwood
>
> >I know - the thicker iron - maybe takes a little longer but still the
> >speed is nothing outstanding. good, professioanl, and not something that
> >one learns overnight but what an experience woodworker learns to
> >sharpen.
>
> well to me it is impressive. I have went through king stones and bester and now
> the shaptons. I find the shapton about 8 times faster then a king. that
> impresses me. may not impress you but it does me.
are you telling me that is used to take you 16 minutes to sharpen a
plane iron?
That is really slow!!!
<snip>
>
> >
>
>
> >That's great - One thing they teach you in Japan is that different
> >metals should be sharpened on differnt materials. I think what you are
> >seeing is that the shapton stones are less friable than the king stones
> >and since your very thick irons are mostly soft steel welded to a hard
> >steel core what you are doing is mostly polishing soft steel. I wouldn't
> >be surprised that a less friable stone works better for you because a
> >more friable stone would have a tendency to break off against tough
> >steel without actually wearing the tough steel away. This would increase
> >stone wear and decrease overall speed. In your case with the thick iron
> >the grit stays attached to the less friable stone long enough to do some
> >work and the bond of the grit is strong enough to resist the touch iron.
>
> yes this is a factor for sure. but most of my irons are solid 0-1 not
> laminated. but I sharpen japanese tools and thin irons too. and I find the
> stones work just as well for them. I am not the only one who has noticed it.
> Most of the king stone usage was on thinner irons and japanese irons. once I
> started selling planes I wore it out so fast it was funny.
O-1 is also a very tough steel - and less friable stones would last
longer and cut better.
I have new S53 blades - really hard to sharpen on arkansas stones or
diamond paste
the King stones do a great job - realtively fast.
>
> >I think what you have found is the perfect combination for yourself
> >given your tehcique and the particular type of irons you hone. Which is
> >great but it's tough to extrapolate for regular sharpenings on regular
> >tools - which is pretty darn fast and my stone wear is certainly a lot
> >less then yours.
>
--
Steve Knight
>are you telling me that is used to take you 16 minutes to sharpen a
>plane iron?
>That is really slow!!!
no but the times were longer. but then my skills were worse. but I do know the
real differences between the bester and the shapton because my skill level and
grinding methods are the same. I would say if I had a king the speed would be
closer to triple or so. but I don't plan on going down in stones so I don't plan
on testing it. I know a king would wear away with remarkable speed though.
remember I am flattening the backs too that takes double the usual sharpening
time. If I was just doing the bevel it would be a minute or less.
>I have new S53 blades - really hard to sharpen on arkansas stones or
>diamond paste
>the King stones do a great job - realtively fast.
I have hear about the problems with the s53. Doubt will get my hands on it. but
you never know. I have another route I will be going for top end irons.
you know the only way this will be settled is to go out and buy a shapton
stone. since in the far future I would need another 1000 grit stone why not buy
one and try it if you don't like it I would buy it from you or give you a plane
for it.
toolsforworkingwood
>
> >are you telling me that is used to take you 16 minutes to sharpen a
> >plane iron?
> >That is really slow!!!
>
> no but the times were longer. but then my skills were worse. but I do know the
> real differences between the bester and the shapton because my skill level and
> grinding methods are the same. I would say if I had a king the speed would be
> closer to triple or so. but I don't plan on going down in stones so I don't plan
> on testing it. I know a king would wear away with remarkable speed though.
> remember I am flattening the backs too that takes double the usual sharpening
> time. If I was just doing the bevel it would be a minute or less.
>
> >I have new S53 blades - really hard to sharpen on arkansas stones or
> >diamond paste
> >the King stones do a great job - realtively fast.
>
> I have hear about the problems with the s53.
according to Holtey they are hell to harden correctly and I know from my
expericne and my customers that sharpening them it definitely takes
more effort. But if you are planing abrasive woods then there is nothing
like it. I like them for regular work because I just never seem to have
to sharpen them (I have no power tools so I use planes constantly), but
for most applications the Clifton blades or the Hock would be a great
step in the right direction and easier to sharpen. Again it's about the
appropriate tool for the job.
Doubt will get my hands on it. but
> you never know. I have another route I will be going for top end irons.
> you know the only way this will be settled is to go out and buy a shapton
> stone. since in the far future I would need another 1000 grit stone why not buy
> one and try it if you don't like it I would buy it from you or give you a plane
> for it.
I will be carrying Shapton stones in the future - just don't know when -
I like to give people as much choice as possible. My issue is your claim
to uber speed. if it used to take say five minutes to sharpen the old
way and now takes two minutes but your skills are better then you could
say the shapton stones for your application are about twice as fast as
the kings and wear less. This is a more reasonable claim - 8 times mean
that the old way should have taken 16 minutes which as you say it
didn't.
--
> Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
> Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
> See http://www.knight-toolworks.com
> For prices and ordering instructions.
> To subscribe to my good deals/beta testing/seconds email list send a email to
> gooddeal...@knight-toolworks.com
> Subject: subscribe
--
Murray Dawson
Tormek, and it worked well. The only problem was lining up the bevel
square - the hand made chisel doesn't have accurately machined sides and
back to register from in the grinding jig.
I'd like to be able to freehand sharpen as quickly and accurately as Frank
Klausz - I'd also like to be able to wield a dovetail saw as good as him
too. But, being a mere mortal, I'm much more comfortable jigging up an
expensive chisel in the Tormek where I know I can quickly get very accurate,
consistent results rather than buggering it with one slip on a waterstone.
Steve... those Shapton stones sound really good. Pity I can't find any in
Australia. They're getting a lot of free advertising out of you :)
Murray
Steve Knight
>I'd like to be able to freehand sharpen as quickly and accurately as Frank
>Klausz - I'd also like to be able to wield a dovetail saw as good as him
>too. But, being a mere mortal, I'm much more comfortable jigging up an
>expensive chisel in the Tormek where I know I can quickly get very accurate,
>consistent results rather than buggering it with one slip on a waterstone.
even now I tend to skew chisels and irons one way. it is something I have to
fight.
>Steve... those Shapton stones sound really good. Pity I can't find any in
>Australia. They're getting a lot of free advertising out of you :)
bummer they seem not be worldwide yet.
Steve Knight
>> I have hear about the problems with the s53.
>THe Holtey irons are unbeliveable - I can't keep them in stock. But
>according to Holtey they are hell to harden correctly and I know from my
>expericne and my customers that sharpening them it definitely takes
>more effort. But if you are planing abrasive woods then there is nothing
>like it. I like them for regular work because I just never seem to have
>to sharpen them (I have no power tools so I use planes constantly), but
>for most applications the Clifton blades or the Hock would be a great
>step in the right direction and easier to sharpen. Again it's about the
>appropriate tool for the job.
but for most people the battle to sharpen is a turnoff plus the price too.
I have a secret weapon in the works that I hope to reveal in a month or less.
>I will be carrying Shapton stones in the future - just don't know when -
>I like to give people as much choice as possible. My issue is your claim
>to uber speed. if it used to take say five minutes to sharpen the old
>way and now takes two minutes but your skills are better then you could
>say the shapton stones for your application are about twice as fast as
>the kings and wear less. This is a more reasonable claim - 8 times mean
>that the old way should have taken 16 minutes which as you say it
>didn't.
there are a lot of different ones. it is kind of bewildering. I found out the
newest ones are made with twice the particles of normal stones. they are so hard
on the back that they can't even get printed on. so you use the back of the
stone not the front. So they may wear even less. I will know this week.
I can't remember how much better the bester was then the king it has been over
2 years. but at the time I was tickled pink when I compared them. the speed and
less wear was pretty noticeable.
so what happens is as the speed of the sharpening increased I got a better
edge in less time. when I went to the shapton I got an even better edge in less
time.
I have sharpened enough of these irons to know the improvements but it is hard
to explain really. I do know the shapton 1000 I am using now goes 10 times
longer between flattening then the king I used that I know. the stone costs 2 to
three times more then a king it is far cheeper in the long run. same with the
finer stones.
toolsforworkingwood
>
> >> I have hear about the problems with the s53.
> >THe Holtey irons are unbeliveable - I can't keep them in stock. But
> >according to Holtey they are hell to harden correctly and I know from my
> >expericne and my customers that sharpening them it definitely takes
> >more effort. But if you are planing abrasive woods then there is nothing
> >like it. I like them for regular work because I just never seem to have
> >to sharpen them (I have no power tools so I use planes constantly), but
> >for most applications the Clifton blades or the Hock would be a great
> >step in the right direction and easier to sharpen. Again it's about the
> >appropriate tool for the job.
>
> but for most people the battle to sharpen is a turnoff plus the price too.
It's not a battle - more like an animated discussion, but these aren't a
mass market item
anyway.
> I have a secret weapon in the works that I hope to reveal in a month or less.
>
> >I will be carrying Shapton stones in the future - just don't know when -
> >I like to give people as much choice as possible. My issue is your claim
> >to uber speed. if it used to take say five minutes to sharpen the old
> >way and now takes two minutes but your skills are better then you could
> >say the shapton stones for your application are about twice as fast as
> >the kings and wear less. This is a more reasonable claim - 8 times mean
> >that the old way should have taken 16 minutes which as you say it
> >didn't.
>
> there are a lot of different ones. it is kind of bewildering. I found out the
> newest ones are made with twice the particles of normal stones. they are so hard
> on the back that they can't even get printed on. so you use the back of the
> stone not the front. So they may wear even less. I will know this week.
> I can't remember how much better the bester was then the king it has been over
> 2 years. but at the time I was tickled pink when I compared them. the speed and
> less wear was pretty noticeable.
> so what happens is as the speed of the sharpening increased I got a better
> edge in less time. when I went to the shapton I got an even better edge in less
> time.
> I have sharpened enough of these irons to know the improvements but it is hard
> to explain really. I do know the shapton 1000 I am using now goes 10 times
> longer between flattening then the king I used that I know. the stone costs 2 to
> three times more then a king it is far cheeper in the long run. same with the
> finer stones.
It's not cheaper in the long run if you never wear out the stone. You
may save a little
time but again your needs are not the same as anyone elses. my stones
will last me my lifetime. I don't even use them as much as I used to
because as I've mentioned before, when sharpening a single tool, it is
so much easier just to pull out the arkansas stones. But if you have a
standing sharpening station, which I don't, that isn't the case.
Andy Dingley
What's a "Japanese chisel" ?
If it's a good one, then you're an animal and you don't deserve it.
Sharpen them properly, on a flat stone at hand speeds.
If it's a cheap one, then the hard lamination will be thin (thinner
... too damn thin, depending on how cheap). A hollow grind here will
be weak and the edge will chip like crazy if you work on anything
tough. (My cheap chisels lasted me well on most softer Japanese
woods, until I started working oak with them)
Don't grind Japanese chisels on horizontal axis wheels. I don't even
like doing them on the vertical wheel, unless it's to take out really
bad damage.