Finally Succumbed To the Barn Door Fad

[-MIKE-]

Ever since the TV home shows have been installing barn doors in all
remodels, the big box stores have started carrying them and the
requests for installations have been pouring in to every carpenter in
suburbia.

I figured I would wait out the fad and in 10 years I'd make a fortune
taking them out after people's frustration in using them overcomes their
overwhelming urge to be trendy. After all, they aren't really any
different than pocket doors other than the fact that they are much
easier to put back on the tracks when they slip off.

Well, I resisted as long as I could but finally had a client who really
wanted them in a closet build-out I was doing in her basement
converted-bedroom.

https://goo.gl/photos/5XhKykF8cVmz9cR68

The client enjoys finishing, so she's going do the stain or faded paint
finish of her choice, and pick out handles.

BTW, the yellow spot on the ceiling behind the left can light is the
reason I never use power tools to cut holes in ceilings. There is a
water line resting on the drywall going straight through the center of
that spot. :-)
I had to move the cans further out in the room, which turned out better
anyway.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[Sonny]

On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/5XhKykF8cVmz9cR68
>
> The client enjoys finishing, so she's going do the stain or faded paint
> finish of her choice, and pick out handles.

Some thoughts:
White ceiling and trim, blue left wall, pinkish floor (or is that carpet, reflecting that pinkish hue?) and the closet wall has a (raw wood) weathered look (gray stain/paint paneling?).

Finishing those doors in a different color might make the room chaotic, color-wise.

Did she ask your opinion as to finishing? Do you know if the client will try to match the weathered look, before topcoating/painting? Soaking steel wool in vinegar will produce a solution for weathering those doors, to match its wall (....*test some applications on scrap). Maybe she'll repaint the wall to match whatever door color she decides.

Looks good. Good job.

Sonny

[-MIKE-]

Thanks, Sonny.

She has her own ideas for the color scheme in the room, which includes
(IIRC) repainting the walls.
The paneling came pre-finished like that and she loved it. She wants
the doors to be something different, for high contrast. I considered a
burnt wood finish, but it would've run up the labor costs.
In my opinion that kind of paneling with corner trim looks "mobile home"
enough on its own. If the doors matched, I think it would look way too
trailer park.

The existing trim crown and base were white and the added molding was
primed white. I don't know here painting plans for the trim. Carpet is
beige and yes, getting pink hue from reflection and camera artifacts.

[Greg Guarino]

I'm not really a fan of that type of door, although I think I may have
seen a "hide the TV" application that looked nice.

We've stayed a number of times in a fairly upscale hotel in Quebec that
has installed that sort of door on the bathrooms in a recent renovation.
I have to say that the inch and a half gap between the door and the wall
results in a certain lack of *acoustic* privacy. The door is bigger than
the opening so there's no line-of-sight into the bathroom, but I would
think that most people would prefer that bathroom sounds stay in the
bathroom.

On a related note, my wife and I recently stayed in another hotel that
actually has a frosted glass wall between the bedroom and the shower
stall. The glass obscures detail, to be sure, but I think families with
kids might find the arrangement disconcerting.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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[Leon]

On 4/18/2017 12:04 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> Ever since the TV home shows have been installing barn doors in all
> remodels, the big box stores have started carrying them and the
> requests for installations have been pouring in to every carpenter in
> suburbia.
>
> I figured I would wait out the fad and in 10 years I'd make a fortune
> taking them out after people's frustration in using them overcomes their
> overwhelming urge to be trendy. After all, they aren't really any
> different than pocket doors other than the fact that they are much
> easier to put back on the tracks when they slip off.
>
> Well, I resisted as long as I could but finally had a client who really
> wanted them in a closet build-out I was doing in her basement
> converted-bedroom.
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/5XhKykF8cVmz9cR68
>
> The client enjoys finishing, so she's going do the stain or faded paint
> finish of her choice, and pick out handles.
>
> BTW, the yellow spot on the ceiling behind the left can light is the
> reason I never use power tools to cut holes in ceilings. There is a
> water line resting on the drywall going straight through the center of
> that spot. :-)
> I had to move the cans further out in the room, which turned out better
> anyway.
>
>

Looks good!

[-MIKE-]

So true. FWIW, these doors are only about 3/16" from the trim.
One issue with these doors is that you actually have to close them all
the way, manually, using your hands to stop them. There are bumpers at
the top, but the doors with "bounce" off the bumpers and when they hit
one another at the bottom.

I've seen rumors of soft-close adapters for barn door that act like
soft-close drawers in that they grab the door, slow it down, and bring
it to a soft stopped position. If I do more of these, I will look into
that option.

> On a related note, my wife and I recently stayed in another hotel that
> actually has a frosted glass wall between the bedroom and the shower
> stall. The glass obscures detail, to be sure, but I think families with
> kids might find the arrangement disconcerting.
>

Back when I was doing more touring as a musician, were were at a beach
town that has these changing areas with that sort of opaque sheathing.
At certain times of the day when the sun was right, you got a perfect
silhouette of whoever was inside. It was quite the tourist attraction
and a good draw for the locals, too.

I decided to have fun with my bandmates and I went inside one, but I had
hidden one of those foam pool noodles inside the enclosure. I went in
and used the pool noodle to, um... well, lets just say, "greatly
enhance" my profile.

I thought they were going to pass out from laughing so hard.

[Greg Guarino]

On 4/18/2017 2:42 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 4/18/17 1:16 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> On 4/18/2017 1:31 PM, Sonny wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

>
> I've seen rumors of soft-close adapters for barn door that act like
> soft-close drawers in that they grab the door, slow it down, and bring
> it to a soft stopped position. If I do more of these, I will look into
> that option.

The hotel bathroom doors had that feature. Still pretty inconvenient
though, as the door was big, thick and heavy. You had to apply more
force than you would expect to open or close that door.

[woodchucker]

On 4/18/2017 2:42 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

ROFL

--
Jeff

[DerbyDad03]

I model for those noodles.

[OFWW]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 12:04:45 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
wrote:

>Ever since the TV home shows have been installing barn doors in all
>remodels, the big box stores have started carrying them and the
>requests for installations have been pouring in to every carpenter in
>suburbia.
>
>I figured I would wait out the fad and in 10 years I'd make a fortune
>taking them out after people's frustration in using them overcomes their
>overwhelming urge to be trendy. After all, they aren't really any
>different than pocket doors other than the fact that they are much
>easier to put back on the tracks when they slip off.
>
>Well, I resisted as long as I could but finally had a client who really
>wanted them in a closet build-out I was doing in her basement
>converted-bedroom.
>
>https://goo.gl/photos/5XhKykF8cVmz9cR68
>
>The client enjoys finishing, so she's going do the stain or faded paint
>finish of her choice, and pick out handles.
>
>BTW, the yellow spot on the ceiling behind the left can light is the
>reason I never use power tools to cut holes in ceilings. There is a
>water line resting on the drywall going straight through the center of
>that spot. :-)
>I had to move the cans further out in the room, which turned out better
>anyway.

In that instance it doesn't look so out of place. Nice Job.

[-MIKE-]

Thanks.

[nailsh...@aol.com]

On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

> Ever since the TV home shows have been installing barn doors in all
> remodels, the big box stores have started carrying them and the
> requests for installations have been pouring in to every carpenter in
> suburbia.
>
> I figured I would wait out the fad and in 10 years I'd make a fortune
> taking them out after people's frustration in using them overcomes their
> overwhelming urge to be trendy. After all, they aren't really any
> different than pocket doors other than the fact that they are much
> easier to put back on the tracks when they slip off.
>
> Well, I resisted as long as I could but finally had a client who really
> wanted them in a closet build-out I was doing in her basement
> converted-bedroom.

I with you! I sure thought they would go away...

But I saw a home selling for about 1.1 million bucks on a video tour of the parade of homes in a very exclusive new development, and it had TWO of those damn things in them. They got some heavily weathered barn wood somewhere and built them out of that. It looked like they even took time to "weather" the nail heads. I thought they looked awful and out of place, but the realtor's voice over absolutely crowed over them.

The good news is your install looks nice, neat and professional. Good job on that!

I have only had one client approach me about doing that for them, and I escaped as they ran out of money by the time I did the rest of their remodel. I have a question for you: did you hang those by yourself? The doors look pretty heavy, just wondering.

Robert

[Michael]

On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>

> -MIKE-

Looks great and very functional!

[-MIKE-]

Thank you.

> I have only had one client approach me about doing that for them,
> and I escaped as they ran out of money by the time I did the rest of
> their remodel. I have a question for you: did you hang those by
> yourself? The doors look pretty heavy, just wondering.
>
> Robert
>

I did hang them by myself. They are actually pretty light, considering.
I was walking through the HD lumber aisle and came across the bins of
T&G boards and they had a whole section for "knotty pine." Knowing the
look she was going for, I selected the ones with the most knots. When I
was loading them in the cart, I was amazed at how light they were.
Cheap, too. 1x6x8' was 6 bucks after tax. I think all the wood for
both doors was about $75.

A very easy build. I little bit of construction adhesive in the
grooves, clamped lightly for a few hours. Glued and nailed top stile.
Bottom stile is screwed, only, so it can be raised or lowered to adjust
for different finished flooring heights. If they crack from shrinking,
it'll just enhance the look. :-)

[nailsh...@aol.com]

On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 9:41:43 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

> I did hang them by myself. They are actually pretty light, considering.
> I was walking through the HD lumber aisle and came across the bins of
> T&G boards and they had a whole section for "knotty pine." Knowing the
> look she was going for, I selected the ones with the most knots. When I
> was loading them in the cart, I was amazed at how light they were.
> Cheap, too. 1x6x8' was 6 bucks after tax. I think all the wood for
> both doors was about $75.
>
> A very easy build. I little bit of construction adhesive in the
> grooves, clamped lightly for a few hours. Glued and nailed top stile.
> Bottom stile is screwed, only, so it can be raised or lowered to adjust
> for different finished flooring heights. If they crack from shrinking,
> it'll just enhance the look. :-)

LOL... no kidding!

Reading your description, I think I would have been in danger of seriously overbuilding those doors. And never would I have thought of going to HD for knotty pine T&G wood panel.

I have a technique for "rapid aging" wood that will emulate old material. I learned it from a guy that made wooden "cigar store" Indians and sold them. First as replicas, then as the real deal.

After Gene was "found out", he did a year in jail and had to pay restitution to several clients. I wondered why he was treated so harshly by the courts... then I found out he was getting $5K and up for his full sized Indians when he presented them as the real deal! He told me he actually sold about 35 of the fake models, so he just about broke even excepting his time in the can after restitution and attorney's fees.

Let me know if you have any use for the method and formula now that you might be getting more of that business.

Robert

[-MIKE-]

Yes, I absolutely would love to hear your technique.
Aged wood is the other fad going around now.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 01:09:30 -0700 (PDT), "nailsh...@aol.com"
<nailsh...@aol.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 12:04:49 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> Ever since the TV home shows have been installing barn doors in all
>> remodels, the big box stores have started carrying them and the
>> requests for installations have been pouring in to every carpenter in
>> suburbia.
>>
>> I figured I would wait out the fad and in 10 years I'd make a fortune
>> taking them out after people's frustration in using them overcomes their
>> overwhelming urge to be trendy. After all, they aren't really any
>> different than pocket doors other than the fact that they are much
>> easier to put back on the tracks when they slip off.
>>
>> Well, I resisted as long as I could but finally had a client who really
>> wanted them in a closet build-out I was doing in her basement
>> converted-bedroom.
>
>I with you! I sure thought they would go away...
>
>But I saw a home selling for about 1.1 million bucks on a video tour of the parade of homes in a very exclusive new development, and it had TWO of those damn things in them. They got some heavily weathered barn wood somewhere and built them out of that. It looked like they even took time to "weather" the nail heads. I thought they looked awful and out of place, but the realtor's voice over absolutely crowed over them.

"That's not a bug, it's a feechur."

>The good news is your install looks nice, neat and professional. Good job on that!
>
>I have only had one client approach me about doing that for them, and I escaped as they ran out of money by the time I did the rest of their remodel. I have a question for you: did you hang those by yourself? The doors look pretty heavy, just wondering.

I can see them in certain circumstances but few. I'd rather see these
than the damned bifold closet doors. Worse, metal or, (gack)
mirrored, bifold doors.

[-MIKE-]

On 4/19/17 8:58 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> I have only had one client approach me about doing that for them,
>> and I escaped as they ran out of money by the time I did the rest
>> of their remodel. I have a question for you: did you hang those
>> by yourself? The doors look pretty heavy, just wondering.
>
> I can see them in certain circumstances but few. I'd rather see
> these than the damned bifold closet doors. Worse, metal or, (gack)
> mirrored, bifold doors.
>

That's what we were trying to avoid, too!

[OFWW]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 21:58:05 -0400, k...@notreal.com wrote:

>I can see them in certain circumstances but few. I'd rather see these
>than the damned bifold closet doors. Worse, metal or, (gack)
>mirrored, bifold doors.

May I ask what is the problem with bifold closet doors, as opposed to
sliding doors?

Reason being two of my bedrooms are being redone and the built in
closets we are stuck with in this house. I was considering going to
bifold doors in order to fully access the interior as well as not
messing with the center floor guides for sliders.

[-MIKE-]

There's nothing inherently wrong with bi-fold doors. They are a great
design that allows for full access to closets with minimal intrusion
into the adjacent space.

I think many people's disdain for them comes from two reasons.
1. The mounting/sliding hardware is pretty flimsy and the doors often
become difficult to operate because of problems with the hardware or
improper installation or re-installation after a flooring change, ie:
carpet to hardwood.
2. The ubiquitous style/production of them has given them somewhat of a
McDonalds reputation. People seem them everywhere and think they are
cheap and ugly.

Ugly is subjective, but that slatted, shutter-style door gets old fast.

[Leon]

On 4/18/2017 12:04 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

> Ever since the TV home shows have been installing barn doors in all
> remodels, the big box stores have started carrying them and the
> requests for installations have been pouring in to every carpenter in
> suburbia.
>
> I figured I would wait out the fad and in 10 years I'd make a fortune
> taking them out after people's frustration in using them overcomes their
> overwhelming urge to be trendy. After all, they aren't really any
> different than pocket doors other than the fact that they are much
> easier to put back on the tracks when they slip off.
>
> Well, I resisted as long as I could but finally had a client who really
> wanted them in a closet build-out I was doing in her basement
> converted-bedroom.
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/5XhKykF8cVmz9cR68
>
> The client enjoys finishing, so she's going do the stain or faded paint
> finish of her choice, and pick out handles.
>
> BTW, the yellow spot on the ceiling behind the left can light is the
> reason I never use power tools to cut holes in ceilings. There is a
> water line resting on the drywall going straight through the center of
> that spot. :-)
> I had to move the cans further out in the room, which turned out better
> anyway.
>
>

I have a customer now that wants to put a small sliding barn door in
front of her laundry room so that she will not see the open laundry door.
I am wondering if she realizes what she wants. She could simply close
the existing laundry door. And the existing laundry door is going to be
much easier to open and close than a sliding barn door.

Some people just want the look rather than some thing that actually
works well.

[OFWW]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:12:19 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
wrote:

>On 4/20/17 12:44 AM, OFWW wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 21:58:05 -0400, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>
>>> I can see them in certain circumstances but few. I'd rather see these
>>> than the damned bifold closet doors. Worse, metal or, (gack)
>>> mirrored, bifold doors.
>>
>> May I ask what is the problem with bifold closet doors, as opposed to
>> sliding doors?
>>
>> Reason being two of my bedrooms are being redone and the built in
>> closets we are stuck with in this house. I was considering going to
>> bifold doors in order to fully access the interior as well as not
>> messing with the center floor guides for sliders.
>>
>
>There's nothing inherently wrong with bi-fold doors. They are a great
>design that allows for full access to closets with minimal intrusion
>into the adjacent space.
>
>I think many people's disdain for them comes from two reasons.
>1. The mounting/sliding hardware is pretty flimsy and the doors often
>become difficult to operate because of problems with the hardware or
>improper installation or re-installation after a flooring change, ie:
>carpet to hardwood.
>2. The ubiquitous style/production of them has given them somewhat of a
>McDonalds reputation. People seem them everywhere and think they are
>cheap and ugly.
>
>Ugly is subjective, but that slatted, shutter-style door gets old fast.

There are now many styles, some matching interior doors. I can
understand the slatted style, seems to be the favorite with porn.

The issue with the carpet/wooden floors, wouldn't that be the same
with any closet doors?

The difficulty with the hardware I hadn't considered. Is it the track,
or the sliders?

I would sure like to see a full opening.

[-MIKE-]

For some reason I started picturing the opening montage from "Get
Smart." :-)

> Some people just want the look rather than some thing that actually
> works well.

You just explained every set of shutters in suburbia!

[-MIKE-]

Yes, there are many styles but it seems like you see that same style in
90% of cases.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with these people, just trying to
explain their reasoning.

> The issue with the carpet/wooden floors, wouldn't that be the same
> with any closet doors?
>

You don't have to reset the hardware on a normal hinge hung door. And
if it sticks on high carpet causing you to have to push or pull harder,
it's not going to come off the hinges.

> The difficulty with the hardware I hadn't considered. Is it the
> track, or the sliders?
>

In my specific example of changing floor height, it's generally the
bottom pin and bracket that aren't re-installed properly which causes
the door to come off either the bottom pin bracket or the top roller
slides. Both of these are fairly adjustable, by the way, but most
homeowner just can't seem to figure it out. Or they adjust both out as
far as they go which makes operation a bit wonky.

> I would sure like to see a full opening.
>

By all means, don't let us talk you out of it. Like I said, I'm just
trying to give the reasons for the general disdain of these things.

If you're the one installing them, I'm sure you'll do it right and take
the necessary steps to insure they are adjusted properly. I've seen
them operate flawlessly... usually after I've installed them. :-)

[OFWW]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:03:03 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>

Thanks, all things are being considered, especially since I'd like to
sell this place in a year or so and move out of Calif for tax,
political, and other economic reasons.

[-MIKE-]

I totally get that!
I have many musician friends from SoCal who moved here to the Nashville
area.
Several sold homes in CA that were paid for, came here and paid cash for
2 or 3 houses: 1 to live in and the rest as rental property.

Cost of living is much lower, you keep much more of the money you earned
and you're not dealing with politicians from outer space.

[OFWW]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:04:25 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>

One thing for sure, if they moved there then they are on the safe side
of the San Andrea's fault. :)

[Scott Lurndal]

OFWW <ofww1...@yahoo.com> writes:
>On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:04:25 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
>wrote:
>

>>

>>Cost of living is much lower, you keep much more of the money you earned
>>and you're not dealing with politicians from outer space.
>
>One thing for sure, if they moved there then they are on the safe side
>of the San Andrea's fault. :)

99% of california is east of the fault, including SF and the bay area.

There is no safe side of any fault, and the largest earthquake in the
continental US east of the Rockies was centered in New Madrid, Misery.

Note that the 1906 quake was felt over 6200 sq miles, while the New
Madrid quake (1811) was felt over 1 million sq miles. New Madrid is
within a hundred miles or so of Nashville (Memphis experienced level IX (Violent)
shaking!)

Personally, I'll risk the earthquake over living in tornado alley.

[Leon]

Tornado's Earth Quakes, and Hurricanes. I'll take tornado's over the
other two for one reason, life immediately after the event.

A tornado is very destructive as are earth quakes and hurricanes. I
have been in 5 hurricanes, the third when I was 15. I thought I was
going to die in that hurricane. Anyway it was a direct hit on the the
Corpus Christi area. It took months to to even think about having
repairs made to your home. And that was probably 20-30 thousand residences.

An earth quake is going to likely deliver the same life changing event
for tens of thousands of families.

A tornado is very selective and does not typically do damage over
thousands of square miles. Repairs can usually begin immediate.

And after a tornado you can usually guy groceries, gasoline and probably
go to work the next day for the vast majority.

Major earth quakes and hurricanes typically deliver damage with a broad
stroke, tornados, not so much.

FWIW Harris county/ Houston, Texas has more tornadoes than any where
else in the U.S. We have had 7~8 this month. Not big ones but in
their small paths they do some destruction. At least the city goes on
with its business the next day, not so with a hurricane.

[Leon]

I was under the cone of silence!

>
>> Some people just want the look rather than some thing that actually
>> works well.
>
> You just explained every set of shutters in suburbia!

Equally strange, new down sized home, the one I was describing above.
This home is 4,100 sq ft. Old home was 5K+ sq ft. They have not even
fully moved in yet and have had the floors, probably carpeting, replaced
with a vinyl product that looks like wood planks. Ok looking but not
IMHO in a house of this price range.

[OFWW]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 20:03:43 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>OFWW <ofww1...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:04:25 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>
>>>
>>>Cost of living is much lower, you keep much more of the money you earned
>>>and you're not dealing with politicians from outer space.
>>
>>One thing for sure, if they moved there then they are on the safe side
>>of the San Andrea's fault. :)
>
> 99% of california is east of the fault, including SF and the bay area.
>

http://geology.com/articles/images/san-andreas-fault-map.jpg

Land mass, but not people mass. SF, Berkeley etc would be destroyed.

Last I read they found a new interconnecting fault junction with one
that runs through Long Beach IIRC. The resulting Tsunami on the coast
here would be atrocious. It sure boosts the economy afterwards if you
are in the trades. :)

> There is no safe side of any fault, and the largest earthquake in the
>continental US east of the Rockies was centered in New Madrid, Misery.
>
> Note that the 1906 quake was felt over 6200 sq miles, while the New
>Madrid quake (1811) was felt over 1 million sq miles. New Madrid is
>within a hundred miles or so of Nashville (Memphis experienced level IX (Violent)
>shaking!)

Perhaps, but to them a 2.5 feels like the world is coming to an end. A
Californian barely feels anything smaller than a 5.2.

[OFWW]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 15:31:06 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

I agree. But I prefer getting it over quick, like in an earthquake.

[Markem]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:41:47 -0700, OFWW <ofww1...@yahoo.com>

And now closer to the New Madrid fault system.

[Markem]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 15:13:22 -0700, OFWW <ofww1...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

We are near New Madrid, MO. have had three earthquakes largest was 4.
something. Those were from faults up in south west Indiana. The quakes
here happen are much deeper in the crust than west coast. We also
first lived in Murphysboro, IL, one of the towns destroyed by the Tri
State Tornado in 1925.

Won't do hurricanes had enough of tropical storms in North Carolina.

You have to live somewhere making your choices based upon possible
natural disasters gives Murphy's law way to much possiblities of
fucking with you.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 22:44:43 -0700, OFWW <ofww1...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 21:58:05 -0400, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>
>>I can see them in certain circumstances but few. I'd rather see these
>>than the damned bifold closet doors. Worse, metal or, (gack)
>>mirrored, bifold doors.
>
>May I ask what is the problem with bifold closet doors, as opposed to
>sliding doors?

They are fugly. I haven't seen an installation that didn't look
incredibly cheap.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 15:15:53 -0700, OFWW <ofww1...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

"Getting it over quick"? The aftermath can take years. There is no
comparison. I'll take tornado alley any time. As Leon pointed out,
tornado damage is pretty isolated and there is almost always warning.

[OFWW]

Once it is over then we assess, bid and repair, hiring more men than
usual in order to expedite the jobs.

I am not trying to mitigate the suffering caused, nor the damage.
Hurricanes can last quite a while, tornadoes are quick like
earthquakes and I've seen their aftermath as well when I was living in
Texas.

[OFWW]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 18:11:57 -0500, Markem <mark...@hotmail.com>

For sure!

[Scott Lurndal]

OFWW <ofww1...@yahoo.com> writes:
>On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 15:31:06 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>wrote:
>
>>On 4/20/2017 3:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Personally, I'll risk the earthquake over living in tornado alley.
>>>

>>A tornado is very selective and does not typically do damage over
>>thousands of square miles. Repairs can usually begin immediate.

No, but they happen _every_ year, and in volume during the summer.

Earthquakes are quite infrequent.

>>Major earth quakes and hurricanes typically deliver damage with a broad
>>stroke, tornados, not so much.
>>
>
>I agree. But I prefer getting it over quick, like in an earthquake.

I've experienced two major earthquakes (Wittier Narrows, Loma Prieta)
and a few minors (Napa a few years ago). For the most part, the damage
is localized (similar to a tornado, more localized than a hurricane). For
Wittier narrows, I was living about 7 miles from the epicenter and it
did no damage to my home, and very little at my office. With the Loma
Prieta the total damage ($5billion) was less than katrina ($108 billion)
even when adjusted for inflation.

I'll take the earthquake anyday. The risk of an 8+ is much lower than the
risk of a F5 tornado or a cat IV hurricane.

[Scott Lurndal]

OFWW <ofww1...@yahoo.com> writes:
>On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 20:03:43 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>wrote:
>
>>OFWW <ofww1...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:04:25 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>Cost of living is much lower, you keep much more of the money you earned
>>>>and you're not dealing with politicians from outer space.
>>>
>>>One thing for sure, if they moved there then they are on the safe side
>>>of the San Andrea's fault. :)
>>
>> 99% of california is east of the fault, including SF and the bay area.
>>
>
>http://geology.com/articles/images/san-andreas-fault-map.jpg

Note that the portions of CA west of the fault on the
SF peninsula are, for the most part, unpopulated (excepting
half-moon-bay and pacifica). The fault crosses into the
ocean at daly city, so all of SF is east of the fault.

>
>Land mass, but not people mass. SF, Berkeley etc would be destroyed.

Considering all the historic quakes on this fault, I find that
statement to be implausible, if not completely false. Particularly
given Loma Prieta, which was the San Andreas and didn't destroy
either SF or Berkeley. No more than Northridge or Sylmar destroyed
LA.

[dpb]

On 04/18/2017 12:04 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
..

> Well, I resisted as long as I could but finally had a client who really
> wanted them in a closet build-out I was doing in her basement
> converted-bedroom.
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/5XhKykF8cVmz9cR68
>
> The client enjoys finishing, so she's going do the stain or faded paint
> finish of her choice, and pick out handles.

...

Nicely done...only comment/suggestion I'd make would be to have used one
board for the top/bottom stiles so would have unbroken grain across both
when closed...now it jars (my eye, anyway) where they meet...probably go
away to a large extent when finished, but...

--

[Leon]

I hear what you are saying... ;~) BUT until you actually live with, and
maybe you have, the reality of the aftermath of a large event it is hard
to understand the complexity of the problems.

Insurance companies help with damage to your home but you rely on the
local government to clear the debris, rebuild bridges, replace broken
water lines, restore electricity so that repairs can actually begin.

I would venture to say that a, quick and it is done, earth quake might
be one that does not do a lot of damage. My nephew and niece and their
families live in Edmund, OK. They have earth quakes pretty often, not
terrible ones but enough to crack the walls and such.

BUT in those areas that are on faults, like California, a big quake is
typically followed with days of after shocks that would or can continue
to do extensive damage.

[Leon]

On 4/21/2017 7:54 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> OFWW <ofww1...@yahoo.com> writes:
>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 15:31:06 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/20/2017 3:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I'll risk the earthquake over living in tornado alley.
>>>>
>
>>> A tornado is very selective and does not typically do damage over
>>> thousands of square miles. Repairs can usually begin immediate.
>
> No, but they happen _every_ year, and in volume during the summer.
>
> Earthquakes are quite infrequent.

I am sure your reasoning is quite valid and I would not want to steer
you away from you your way of thinking. Have you lived through a major
quake, like IIRC the one in the late 80's early 90's that hit California?
The big events are what have changed my mind. For the first 14 years of
my life I lived 3 miles from water, gulf coast. During that period of
time I lived through 3 hurricanes. Oddly the first two were not direct
hits but the rain and flooding lasted 2~3 days, both happened after the
new school year began and we missed school. It was fun! LOL
The third hurricane hit directly in early August and IIRC lasted 5 hours
with little to no before or after rain. Wind gusts were often 160+ mph.
Anyway I helped with cleanup for three weeks before starting school.
We had no water for a week, and no electricity for several weeks. I n a
majority of the city grocery stores were closed for weeks, we stood in
food lines to get food and water off of trailers. THAT is what I fear
about any large event.

Anyway I can appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

>
>
>>> Major earth quakes and hurricanes typically deliver damage with a broad
>>> stroke, tornados, not so much.
>>>
>>
>> I agree. But I prefer getting it over quick, like in an earthquake.
>
> I've experienced two major earthquakes (Wittier Narrows, Loma Prieta)
> and a few minors (Napa a few years ago). For the most part, the damage
> is localized (similar to a tornado, more localized than a hurricane). For
> Wittier narrows, I was living about 7 miles from the epicenter and it
> did no damage to my home, and very little at my office. With the Loma
> Prieta the total damage ($5billion) was less than katrina ($108 billion)
> even when adjusted for inflation.
>
> I'll take the earthquake anyday. The risk of an 8+ is much lower than the
> risk of a F5 tornado or a cat IV hurricane.
>

Well that sounds like sound reasoning. With news reports we "out
siders" often see repeated broadcasts of the same areas and do not
always realize the repeat scenes. We tend to think that California is
hanging on by a thread. LOL

I was under the impression that big quakes were as devastating as a
direct hit Cat 3 or larger hurricane.

[Leon]

Living with the threat vs. somewhere else probably gives you a better
understanding of the risks. We have all read of the big one way back
when when, it was mass destruction. BUT that was from fires and broken
water lines. I would imagine in the hundred years since, the
advancements in engineering would less the blow considerably.

[Scott Lurndal]

It depends on a number of factors, including soil conditions, magnitude, location
of epicenter, and age of buildings. Since 1906 cleared out a big part
of SF, much of the construction there is newer. After 1934 long beach,
construction standards were updated, and were changed significantly after
1971 sylmar[*]. The Loma Prieta quake, which was epicentered some 60 miles
south of SF, did little-to-no damage to the peninsula/south bay which is much closer
to the epicenter, but did significant damage to the marina district in
SF which is built on land filled in in the late 19th and early 20th
centuries. It also pretty much destroyed highway 17 (now I880) through
oakland, which was a double decker freeway built before sylmar where
the top deck collapsed on the lower deck. Known as the Cypress Structure,
this was also built on soft soils near the bay.

Note that after the Northridge quake (which mainly affected soft-structures
like apartment buildings built over parking bays) when some overpasses on
I10 collapsed, they were rebuilt within 12 months.

With modern building code standards, and common earthquake awareness by
residents (secure tall items to the wall, hang heavy items using appropriate
hardware, secure overhead cupboard doors with latches), the chances
of damage from a moderate quake are fairly low outside of certain soil
types (e.g. liquifaction).

A massive quake (e.g. 9+), all bets are off, but they're extremely rare,
and given the recent history of the San Andreas, there is not enough
energy accumulated for a really large one here. I'd be more worried
about the faults in the strait of Juan de Fuca which is due for a big
one likely including a large Tsunami clearing out many of the islands
in the sound, plus parts of Seattle - predictions are of a 15% chance
of a 9+ in the next 50 years. Plus/minus some large error bars.

[*] One of the Mission Impossible TV show episodes was filmed on the ruins
of the VA hospital that collapsed in the Sylmar quake in 1971.

[-MIKE-]

I was wondering when someone would comment on that, because I would
have. :-)
That was actually my plan when I was laying out and cutting the boards,
but the client said it would look "too matched" and not barn door enough.

[Scott Lurndal]

Oh, there's no doubt that San Franciscians took it to heart immediately.

The water infrastructure was improved, construction standards changed
after every major California earthquake incorporating lessons learned.
Because of that the damage to SF in 1989 wasn't particularly major outside of the
Marina district. In the financial district where the 50+ story towers
are, they all survived intact. They did end up tearing down the
Embarcadero freeway (another double decker), but that's more due to
folks disliking it esthetically rather than due to cost to repair.
(The supervisors had voted to tear it down four years before the quake).

I must say that the boulevard that replaced it is esthetically much
nicer, but traffic on the embarcadero can be slow, particularly on
weekends with all the weekenders heading to the wharf, Fort Mason
and Ghiradelli Square.

http://www.upout.com/blog/san-francisco-3/old-san-francisco-a-look-at-before-and-after-the-embarcadero-freeway-came-down

[nailsh...@aol.com]

On Friday, April 21, 2017 at 9:50:11 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

> > Nicely done...only comment/suggestion I'd make would be to have used
> > one board for the top/bottom stiles so would have unbroken grain
> > across both when closed...now it jars (my eye, anyway) where they
> > meet...probably go away to a large extent when finished, but...
> >
>
> I was wondering when someone would comment on that, because I would
> have. :-)
> That was actually my plan when I was laying out and cutting the boards,
> but the client said it would look "too matched" and not barn door enough.

Around here they aren't just using these barn door installs as closet or room doors. The fad here is to use them as room dividers. My client screwed around too long with his plans and then way out of budget so I didn't get the job. Thankfully! But he did do a couple of things that he wanted.

They actually looked nice as they have a "country" kind of rustic look to their house. On one side they had the build made to look like a giant fence gate, stiles and a diagonal brace. Painted a kind of red primer color, very rustic. It went well with their rustic kitchen. The other side (think 10' ceilings and barn doors to match) was simply the long boards cut to the same lengths. The wood was a weathered look with kind of a satin/black wash on it. So it looked good on the kitchen side as it had one distinct look, and it looked like a wood wall feature on the other side.

I could see there was some care in making the project look the way the customer wanted. Rustic enough to look like a decorating statement, but the joinery/fit/finish just tight enough to look good.

Robert

[dpb]

On 04/21/2017 9:50 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
...

> That was actually my plan when I was laying out and cutting the boards,
> but the client said it would look "too matched" and not barn door enough.

Well, I did it on the two matching barn doors, so she's not totally
correct there! :)

Altho they're painted and it was more for convenience rather than
actually grain-matching, but needn't tell anybody...

--

[Bob La Londe]

In some circles its called Shabby Chique. I call it Crappy Crud.

My current house (been here since 2005 now) had been on the market for a
while because of this shit. I took the stupid rolling barn door off the
pantry and sold it at a yard sale. Boom gone. The inane corrugated metal
they had covering lot of the walls came down even quicker. I only bought it
because I could see there really was a house behind their pile of refuse.

[Scott Lurndal]

There is no accounting for taste. Your taste or theirs.

[-MIKE-]

That was funny! :-)

[swalker]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 12:04:45 -0500, -MIKE- <mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com>

wrote:

>Ever since the TV home shows have been installing barn doors in all
>remodels, the big box stores have started carrying them and the
>requests for installations have been pouring in to every carpenter in
>suburbia.
>
>I figured I would wait out the fad and in 10 years I'd make a fortune
>taking them out after people's frustration in using them overcomes their
>overwhelming urge to be trendy. After all, they aren't really any
>different than pocket doors other than the fact that they are much
>easier to put back on the tracks when they slip off.
>

>Well, I resisted as long as I could but finally had a client who really
>wanted them in a closet build-out I was doing in her basement
>converted-bedroom.
>
>https://goo.gl/photos/5XhKykF8cVmz9cR68
>
>The client enjoys finishing, so she's going do the stain or faded paint
>finish of her choice, and pick out handles.
>

>BTW, the yellow spot on the ceiling behind the left can light is the
>reason I never use power tools to cut holes in ceilings. There is a
>water line resting on the drywall going straight through the center of
>that spot. :-)
>I had to move the cans further out in the room, which turned out better
>anyway.

Do these doors work independently or together?

[Leon]

Typically doors that work together have cables that tun through pulleys.
I do not see any of that going on.

[-MIKE-]

Independent.

[OFWW]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 12:54:56 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

I've been through a bunch of major quakes, one where the highway was
separated a solid blocks distance sideways. The last large one which
was the Northridge and Santa Monica one which were only a few sections
apart. The two earthquakes kept trades people of all types busy for
several years on things related to the earthquakes.

The big one is over 100 years overdue, and the pressure is increasing
and visible out in the desert and some other places, some there is
rising, rising and some widening., plus there is one slightly off the
coastline here. That is extensive. I can't remember all the details
since I don't worry about such things other than to have generators,
food and the ability to store water on short notice.

Bad thing about generators are having lights on when no one else does.
You stick out like a sore thumb. The majority of the solar systems
sold here are not to store power but feed excess into the electric
company to roll back your meter.

Whatever the happenstance, it is all bad for someone, or many. And in
today's world a riot can be just as destructive as anything nature
throws at us.

[OFWW]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 08:37:20 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

I haven't lived through floods, like in Texas and elsewhere. And I
hope never to. I can remember flying over the middle of the USA after
the giant flooding in the midwest and seeing mile after mile after
mile flooded no matter where you looked. I think it was in the middle
70's. Then seeing the recent floods in Texas and the south. Shudder
the thought, especially for the old folks, or the invalid.

When you stop and consider, none of it has a personal upside, except
for the work generated out of it. I was glad to hear of laws against
unreasonable profiting from such situations.

>Insurance companies help with damage to your home but you rely on the
>local government to clear the debris, rebuild bridges, replace broken
>water lines, restore electricity so that repairs can actually begin.
>

Only if you carry the pertinent insurance addon's. Even so they try to
cut their losses.

>I would venture to say that a, quick and it is done, earth quake might
>be one that does not do a lot of damage. My nephew and niece and their
>families live in Edmund, OK. They have earth quakes pretty often, not
>terrible ones but enough to crack the walls and such.
>
>BUT in those areas that are on faults, like California, a big quake is
>typically followed with days of after shocks that would or can continue
>to do extensive damage.
>

The bulk of damage is on initial impact, the aftershock just enhance
the previous damage and make it more visible, as a rule.

From what I understand, out west we are in a better place in spite of
the Pacific Rim crap, as we have a rock based land, whereas in the
midwest they don't and so the shockwave's carry far.

I just hope whatever happens Texas survives it all. I consider it my
safety net when the USA falls apart and the Republic of Texas arises.
:) My escape place.

[OFWW]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 13:00:20 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)

Actually the damage to LA was great. the Northridge/SM earthquake
damage was wide spread. Houses shaken off their foundations, buildings
cracked, just to name a few. As far as downtown proper then the
Burbank earthquake did more.

As to where the fault flows, yes, I know, but the damage to those near
the fault can be extensive. Given all the water there I can see a lot
of damage from it as well as all the old bldgs in Berkeley. But I am
talking worst case scenario, not the stuff less than 7.2

I wish I could remember, but I don't, I do remember them speaking of
an earthquake possibility extending from LB to near Seattle not too
many months ago. I wouldn't have paid it much attention other than for
the fact is spoke of being near to Roseburg. A beautiful place we are
considering in out future plans. It made me wonder if there is any
"safe place".

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/122-38HaywardFault.jpg/300px-122-38HaywardFault.jpg

In your area.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 22:33:07 -0700, OFWW <ofww1...@yahoo.com>

But it doesn't take _years_ for an area to recover from a tornado.

[Leon]

On 4/21/2017 8:07 PM, OFWW wrote:

> I just hope whatever happens Texas survives it all. I consider it my
> safety net when the USA falls apart and the Republic of Texas arises.
> :) My escape place.
>
>>

;!) Yeah, Texas offers most everything.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 22:48:46 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

SWMBO was born in Texas and says that when Texas secedes, she'll claim
her natural born citizenship rights. ;-)

[Unknown]

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:8-Sdne5H7a00T2fFnZ2dnUU7-
XWd...@giganews.com:

Do you guys have big corn fields in Texas? I think I'd miss them.

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

[nailsh...@aol.com]

On Saturday, April 22, 2017 at 1:30:11 PM UTC-5, nor...@googlegroups.com wrote:

> > ;!) Yeah, Texas offers most everything.
> >
>
> Do you guys have big corn fields in Texas? I think I'd miss them.

Yessir. Only about 3 MILLION acres of it!

Robert

[dpb]

There's some, but nothing approaching corn belt...

Planted acres
<https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Crops_County/cr-pl.php>
Harvested acres
<https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Crops_County/cr-ha.php>
Grain Production
<https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Crops_County/cr-pr.php?

Even KS(!) has almost 5 M A grain corn + another 0.5M A for silage. I
don't know what acreage in IA must be; other than IA isn't all that big
comparatively as a state holds it back... :)

--

[Unknown]

dpb <no...@non.net> wrote in news:odgdvr$th4$1...@dont-email.me:

I've lived in dark green areas (from the first map) most my life. Seeing
corn is as normal as seeing cows between my aunt and grandma's house.

The great thing about those dark green areas is that the entire world
begins anew every 3-4 months. Planting: the corn starts turning the
brown/black soil to a bushy green. Growing: The roads turn into a kind
of tunnel. Harvest: neat nooks and crannies develop. Winter: You can
see for miles and miles.

[dpb]

On 04/23/2017 12:13 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
...

> I've lived in dark green areas (from the first map) most my life. Seeing
> corn is as normal as seeing cows between my aunt and grandma's house.
>
> The great thing about those dark green areas is that the entire world
> begins anew every 3-4 months. Planting: the corn starts turning the
> brown/black soil to a bushy green. Growing: The roads turn into a kind
> of tunnel. Harvest: neat nooks and crannies develop. Winter: You can
> see for miles and miles.

We're one of those in the tier in the SW corner KS...it's almost all
irrigated, though, so isn't planted full up to the sides of the roads
continuously as is in IA, say. Corners are dedicated to dryland wheat
or sometimes milo or often enrolled in CRP grass. So, it's not closed
in out here; we can see horizon 20+ mi away virtually all the time
unless you're out in it directly.

The high-production areas on the map in TX panhandle are similar as
well...the south TX stuff along the Rio Grand up from the Gulf above
Brownsville is a lot of sweet corn including maternal grandparents old
place that uncle/cousins have now...it's much smaller scale/different
style farming down there...truck farming, citrus, etc., than commodity
grain production...

--

[Scott Lurndal]

OFWW <ofww1...@yahoo.com> writes:

>>
>>Considering all the historic quakes on this fault, I find that
>>statement to be implausible, if not completely false. Particularly
>>given Loma Prieta, which was the San Andreas and didn't destroy
>>either SF or Berkeley. No more than Northridge or Sylmar destroyed
>>LA.
>
>Actually the damage to LA was great.

Not when compared with 1906. And that's because of lessons learned from
Long Beach and Sylmar. From a cost basis, it cost less than Katrina.
Yes, it caused damage, for the most part relatively minor, and the
bulk of which affected soft-story apartment buildings in the valley.

[dpb]

On 04/24/2017 8:28 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> OFWW<ofww1...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>>>
>>> Considering all the historic quakes on this fault, I find that
>>> statement to be implausible, if not completely false. Particularly
>>> given Loma Prieta, which was the San Andreas and didn't destroy
>>> either SF or Berkeley. No more than Northridge or Sylmar destroyed
>>> LA.
>>
>> Actually the damage to LA was great.
>
> Not when compared with 1906. And that's because of lessons learned from
> Long Beach and Sylmar. From a cost basis, it cost less than Katrina.
> Yes, it caused damage, for the most part relatively minor, and the
> bulk of which affected soft-story apartment buildings in the valley.

...

All will depend on precise location and intensity...1906 was roughly
7.7-7.9 only 2 mi off coast of SF; 1989 was 6.9 (10X less energy) and
roughly 50-60 mi S.

In contrast, New Madrid 1811 comprised of a ~7.7 followed by a 7.4
"aftershock" only 6 hours later the same day and another ~7.4 roughly 5
weeks after. At that time the area was pretty-much still undeveloped so
not a lot of structural damage. Created what is now Reelfoot Lake;
eyewitness accounts say south of the location the Mississippi R ran
backwards for several minutes while the new depression created filled...

--

[dpb]

On 04/24/2017 9:05 AM, dpb wrote:
...

> All will depend on precise location and intensity...1906 was roughly
> 7.7-7.9 only 2 mi off coast of SF; 1989 was 6.9 (10X less energy) and
> roughly 50-60 mi S.

...

Been _a_long_time_ since did any of the earthquake study work for the
DOE facilities wherein had to do some reading-up, but iirc at least then
the thinking was that because the San Andreas fault lies roughly 8-10 mi
in depth, it's top potential is in the neighborhood of 8 on Richter
scale. So, the upper-7's are getting close.

OTOH, Alaska 1964(?) was like 9.0-9.2 and the Chilean in early '60s was
largest recorded at 9.5. Something like that, if it were to actually
occur much of anywhere in the CA fault area would be truly devastating.

That's kinda' what most people envision in "the big one" for CA, but
afaik, while there's inevitably going to be more major quakes, that
magnitude isn't thought to be likely at all, fortunately.

The _real_ US disaster will be when the Yellowstone caldera goes "boom"
again...

--

[Bob La Londe]

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message news:gysKA.35090$c52....@fx07.iad...

"Bob La Londe" <no...@none.com99> writes:
>In some circles its called Shabby Chique. I call it Crappy Crud.
>
>My current house (been here since 2005 now) had been on the market for a
>while because of this shit. I took the stupid rolling barn door off the
>pantry and sold it at a yard sale. Boom gone. The inane corrugated metal
>they had covering lot of the walls came down even quicker. I only bought
>it
>because I could see there really was a house behind their pile of refuse.
>

** There is no accounting for taste. Your taste or theirs.

That's certainly true. Although they took my first offer without
countering. I guess I wasn't the only one who didn't share their tastes.

[OFWW]

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:28:22 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>OFWW <ofww1...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>>>
>>>Considering all the historic quakes on this fault, I find that
>>>statement to be implausible, if not completely false. Particularly
>>>given Loma Prieta, which was the San Andreas and didn't destroy
>>>either SF or Berkeley. No more than Northridge or Sylmar destroyed
>>>LA.
>>
>>Actually the damage to LA was great.
>
>Not when compared with 1906. And that's because of lessons learned from
>Long Beach and Sylmar. From a cost basis, it cost less than Katrina.
>Yes, it caused damage, for the most part relatively minor, and the
>bulk of which affected soft-story apartment buildings in the valley.
>

Sylmar was way after 1906, Long beach I don't remember, I do remember
the earthquake in Bakersfield. Less damage only because of less people
and bldgs. Earth moved a full city block splitting the highway.

>> the Northridge/SM earthquake
>>damage was wide spread. Houses shaken off their foundations, buildings
>>cracked, just to name a few. As far as downtown proper then the
>>Burbank earthquake did more.

Never bothered equating this with Katrina, different problems, and
mostly they were never prepared for this with a lot of older bldgs
which did not meet current codes. Same kind of problem will plague the
Midwest, east, etc. since their bldgs for the most part where never
designed to be earthquake resistant.

None of it pretty.

[OFWW]

BOY HOWDY! That is supposed to effectively wipe out many states,
totally.

[Scott Lurndal]

OFWW <ofww1...@yahoo.com> writes:
>On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:28:22 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>wrote:
>
>>OFWW <ofww1...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>>>
>>>>Considering all the historic quakes on this fault, I find that
>>>>statement to be implausible, if not completely false. Particularly
>>>>given Loma Prieta, which was the San Andreas and didn't destroy
>>>>either SF or Berkeley. No more than Northridge or Sylmar destroyed
>>>>LA.
>>>
>>>Actually the damage to LA was great.
>>
>>Not when compared with 1906. And that's because of lessons learned from
>>Long Beach and Sylmar. From a cost basis, it cost less than Katrina.
>>Yes, it caused damage, for the most part relatively minor, and the
>>bulk of which affected soft-story apartment buildings in the valley.
>>
>
>Sylmar was way after 1906, Long beach I don't remember, I do remember
>the earthquake in Bakersfield.

Sylmar was 1971. Long Beach was 1934. In both cases,
building codes were changed immediately thereafter statewide.

[dpb]

On 04/28/2017 7:58 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
...

> building codes were changed immediately thereafter statewide.

Which is all well and good for what has been built since; doesn't help
the 100 yo infrastructure like the gas distribution system, etc., etc., ...

And, of course, we'll learn how effective the Code changes were, too...

--

[Scott Lurndal]

dpb <no...@non.net> writes:
>On 04/28/2017 7:58 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>...
>
>> building codes were changed immediately thereafter statewide.
>
>Which is all well and good for what has been built since; doesn't help
>the 100 yo infrastructure like the gas distribution system, etc., etc., ...

There's very little "100 yo" _anything_ in California.

>
>And, of course, we'll learn how effective the Code changes were, too...

We did learn that they were _very_ effective in 1987, 1989 and 1992.

Particularly bolting the frame to the foundation, which, IIRC,
was proposed after 1934 (long beach).

[dpb]

On 04/28/2017 1:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> dpb<no...@non.net> writes:
...

>> Which is all well and good for what has been built since; doesn't help
>> the 100 yo infrastructure like the gas distribution system, etc., etc., ...
>
> There's very little "100 yo" _anything_ in California.
>

...

I suspect a fair amount of LA County (say) gas distribution is quite a
lot older than you may think plus other metro areas have also been
around for quite a while.

--

[dpb]

...

"The pipe that caused the destruction at UCLA was 93 years old (from
1921), but that's on the younger side of things; the LA Times says most
pipes were installed around 1910"

I didn't find specifics on gas which is a key component in fire after
EQ, but I'd be surprised if the same general time frame isn't quite
common for the larger mains.

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