Iyoroi Japanese chisels
Russell Seaton
set/singles sold by Garrett Wade, Museum of Woodworking, and Lee
Valley in the US, and Axminster Power Tool in England. Roughly
$140-170 US dollars for a set of 6.
I've read the Fine Woodworking review from 1999 in which an Iyoroi
chisel was included. But that chisel was a special long firmer chisel
and costs twice as much as the basic bench chisels in the above sets.
Museum and Axminster carries this set also. These long firmer chisels
don't interest me for bench work.
So I know Iyoroi is capable of making high quality chisels. But are
the lower cost ones still pretty good? Or do you have to spend $40-50
per Japanese chisel to guarantee yourself of getting a quality one?
Justifying $40-50 per chisel is a bit difficult cocnsidering my local
Lowes carries the much maligned Marples Blue Chip sets of four chisels
for $21.19 out the door.
Dr. Deb
In a write up on the various chisel sets/makes in either American
Woodworker or Woodworkers Journal, about a year ago, the Marples chisels
actually were the perfered choice. This was based on edge taking and
holding.
BTW, Highland Hardware in Atlanta has a 5 piece set of Marples (1/4 - 1")
for $29.99. Thought you might like to know.
Deb
David E. Penner
russell...@yahoo.com (Russell Seaton) wrote:
I've got a set that I got from lee Valley. I find that they take and hold
an edge quite well (I use them primarily for chopping dovetails). Also, I
like the overall size--they're easy to hold when using a hammer.
I did find, as Leonard Lee points out in his sharpening book, that I had
to go to a slightly steeper bevel angle (about 30 degrees for the larger
sizes; 35 for the smaller ones) to avoid edge chipping. But since I did
that I've had no problems.
David
Steve Knight
>In a write up on the various chisel sets/makes in either American
>Woodworker or Woodworkers Journal, about a year ago, the Marples chisels
>actually were the perfered choice. This was based on edge taking and
>holding.
must not have been much of a write up (G)
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
Steve Knight
another good choice are the white steel handmade chisels japan woodworkers
sells. they are a bit more but they are good chisels that I have used for years.
Jon Endres, PE
OTOH, I have Marples Blue Chips, and I like them very much. I don't think
I'd buy Japanese chisels unless I really had money to burn.
--
Jon Endres, PE
West Mountain Engineering
Civil/Survey/Site Development
wmeng...@adelphia.net
"Steve Knight" <ste...@knight-toolworks.com> wrote in message
news:rad8fu49r1k26bgir...@4ax.com...
JB Alegiani
> Lowes carries the much maligned Marples Blue Chip sets of four chisels
I felt compelled to post a response, since I own sets of both chisels.
After some years of use, I have found the following to be true:
- The Iyoroi chisels can take a keener edge. They stay sharp longer.
In practice though, this doesn't make as much of a difference as you
would think. I like to work with chisels that are razor sharp, so I'm
always rehoning them. It takes just a few strokes on the fine stone to
keep them that way. So for most paring and trimming tasks, the Marples
chisels work very well. Where I notice them getting duller faster is
when I use them to chop on very hard wood (like Rosewood, Ipe, and
other tropicals). The edge on the Marples chisels "curls back" under
the heavy load. The Iyoroi work perfectly. However, when I'm working
regular hardwoods (like Mahogany, Oak, Hickory, Walnut, & Cherry) both
chisels do the job well.
- The Japanese chisels are fussy. The back is hollow, and needs to be
maintained. Mine are also tall, and somewhat ungainly to hold. The
Marples feel better in my hand, and don't seem to be fussy at all to
maintain. Also, the handles on the Marples are more comfortable. I
find myself reaching for the Marples more often because of this.
- Since my Marples chisels are cheap, I don't hesitate in using them
for tasks I would never dream of using the expensive Japanese chisels
for - like cleaning out glazing from window sashes, carpentry chores,
etc.. It?s a pleasure to use a well sharpened razor like chisel for
these mundane tasks. All in all, I get more use out of the Marples.
- Fine WoodWorking did a review of bench chisels a couple of years
ago. In that review, the Iyoroi rated close to the top as far as
ability to hold an edge, and the Marples were close to the bottom. My
experience confirms this. But the article may lead one to believe that
the Marples chisels are junk. My experience with the Marples is that
they are a good product, and are a great bang for the buck.
If I were to "pare down" (no pun intended) my chisel collection to
just what's needed, I would keep the full Marples set, and only buy a
few of the Iyoroi chisels in the size I use most often when I'm
working rock-hard tropicals.
If I were giving a beginner an advice on what to buy, I would tell
them to buy the Marples, and use them until they understand why the
other chisles are better, and feel a need for an upgrade.
Hope this helps,
JB
Nuno Souto
(and I quote):
>
> If I were giving a beginner an advice on what to buy, I would tell
> them to buy the Marples, and use them until they understand why the
> other chisles are better, and feel a need for an upgrade.
>
not quite same here, but similar.
My Iyoroi chisels are reserved for paring work. Except I use them for
all woods, not just super hard stuff. There is also one big thumping
framing/mortice 1/2" Iyoroi which I reserve for my M-T stuff. This one
cost me a small fortune, but there is NOTHING I've found so far that even
remotely compares for M-T work.
I've got a set of Marples (not blue chip) and Stanley general purpose
chisels which I use for all sorts of things and banging around.
And a very cheap A$2-a-piece set of chinese chisels which I use for
cleaning up glazing and such. And as can openers...
There is also the odd "Hirsch/Two Cherries" hanging around. I'll tell
you what: if I had to buy all my chisels all over again, this would
probably be the brand I'd stick with. Except for that heavy framing
Iyoroi.
--
Cheers
Nuno Souto
nso...@optushome.com.au.nospam
Glen
you refer (I'm not saying it doesn't exist, only that I couldn't find it)
but I found one similar in the Dec. 99 issue of FW. Marples did not do very
well on this test scoring a 16 out of 17 chisels tested. It ranked below
both Sears and Stanley in edge holding ability, but was second to the least
expensive chisel tested (beat out again by Sears). If you find the test
replicated in AW or WJ, please post the dates because I was rather surprised
at some of the findings in the FW article and would like to see the study
replicated.
Glen
"Dr. Deb" wrote ...
Andy Dingley
> Any users of the Iyoroi brand basic bench chisels?
I have a set of the cheaper oak-handled Iyoroi chisels, bought some
years ago from Tilgear (UK)
They're my favourite chisels, bar a couple of _really_ expensive
Japanese ones I have. Nice steel, beautiful paring, very easy to
sharpen, long edge life and not too brittle against accidental damage.
Hoops were a bit awkward to seat. Cheaper hoops are diecast and don't
have a sharp edge to help retain them. You have to be very careful
about getting a good fit. Using a hammer instead of a mallet to drive
the chisel helps too.
Andy Dingley
> In a write up on the various chisel sets/makes in either American
> Woodworker or Woodworkers Journal, about a year ago, the Marples chisels
> actually were the perfered choice.
I think that says more about the magazine than the chisel....
Lazarus Long
wrote:
>
>I felt compelled to post a response, since I own sets of both chisels.
>
>After some years of use, I have found the following to be true:
>
>- The Iyoroi chisels can take a keener edge. They stay sharp longer.
>In practice though, this doesn't make as much of a difference as you
>would think. I like to work with chisels that are razor sharp,
Wait'll Steve Knight yells at you for using the phrase "razor sharp"
;)
Steve Knight
wrote:
>Steve, I think you're biased toward good chisels. :)
>
>OTOH, I have Marples Blue Chips, and I like them very much. I don't think
>I'd buy Japanese chisels unless I really had money to burn.
more like lazy so I don't have to sharpen often (G) but with the woods I work I
need a harder more durables edge. and I like the one handed use a japanese
chisel lets you have.
Russell Seaton
woodworking, but maybe I am. Definitely experienced in general
carpentry. Seems all my relatives need drywalling, painting,
electrical, plumbing, flooring, remodeling, etc. more than they need a
nice piece of furniture.
I have chisels already. A varied assortment of older ones I took from
my Dad's ancient toolboxes. After sanding all of the rust off them
and spending hours flattening, honing, sharpening, installing handles,
they are usable enough. I also have 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 Marples boxwood
handled chisels. Probably identical steel to the Blue Chip but much
nicer handles. They are Ok.
But I have the desire to buy another set of bench chisels. Even
though I have sufficient chisels to make anything but handcut
mortices. I will also be acquiring some mortice chisels. After
perusing the various marketplaces and reading various opinions here
and there, the Japanese chisels interest me. I'm not a fan of
sharpening and like to do it as infrequently as possible. The cheap
sets of Iyoroi chisels seem to be low cost yet are made by a company
that had one of their higher end long firmer chisels rated very well
in the 1999 Fine Woodworking test.
The Two Cherries brand of bench and mortice chisels are also
appealing. And since I plan to order from Axminster in England and
Dieter Schmid in Germany, I can purchase Two Cherries from one of
these vendors. Along with other tools. And/or the Iyoroi chisels
from Axminster.
A little bit of irony. The Two Cherries bench chisels are cheaper
individually from Axminster in England than they are from Dieter
Schmid in Germany. However, Dieter Schmid is offering a sale price on
a set of 6 Two Cherries bench chisels which beats Axminster's set
price by about $6 US dollars. Sort of funny to buy German made
chisels cheaper in England than in Germany. But you can also buy
Maine made Lie-Nielsen planes cheaper from Axminster in England than
you can from all the US retailers. Even with shipping you still save
5% or more. So no complaining from British citizens about how costly
Lie-Nielsen planes are in England. Even paying VAT you still are
about the same cost as we pay in the US. But English made Clifton
planes are considerably more expensive in the US than in England. For
some reason the US retailers mark up English goods a considerable
amount while the English retailers don't mark up American goods very
much.
russell...@yahoo.com (Russell Seaton) wrote in message news:<e90052be.02052...@posting.google.com>...
Lyn J. Mangiameli
I appreciate your point of view, perhaps because it overlaps so much with mine.
Chisels are a love of mine, second only to planes. As a result I have more sets of
chisels than I should probably confess to from Sears and modern Bucks, to old Bucks
and Greenlees to modern Japanese and Sorby. Based on experience with a fair number
I see the criteria for a chisel as something like this.
1. Balance and feel of the handle in one's hand.
2. Sizing of the blades (are they accurate and consistent along the length of the
blade--metric equivalents of fractionals are not acceptable substitutes for me, but
are fine in their own right)
3. Edge strength for penetrating dense woods (not edge retention, but edge
strength-they won't curl over at preferred bevel angles)
4. Edge retention and freedom from chipping
5. Ease of initial tuning, such as flatness of backs, setting of hoops, etc.
I haven't listed price, as I find price to be meaningful only as related to value,
and the other criteria are IMO the primary determiners of value.
I have listed the criteria in their importance to me. If one really uses chisels
for any length of time, nothing, simply no other characteristic is as important (to
me) as how the chisel feels in one's hand. No matter how good a chisel is in other
respects, if it doesn't fit and balance well in your hand, you are not going to use
it as effectively or frequently. For me, the Greenlees and the London pattern
handles of the Sorbys are by far the most comfortable in my hands, with the Sears
being the very worst and the Japanese chisels (including the Iyoroi) being not much
better. I find most Japanese chisels to be too small in diameter for a comfortable
grip and the hoops to detract from a comfortable grip.
Unfortunately, edge strength (mostly hardness), edge retention, and chipping often
related characteristics. If one has to go to high bevel angles to prevent chipping,
then the chisel is not as effective to use for many tasks. The value of long edge
retention is quickly eroded if one gets even a small chip that will require a major
overhaul of the edge. So while Japanese chisels are often desirable for edge
strength and edge retention, they also are more vulnerable to chipping and are
harder to tune.
What this means for me is that I prefer a well balanced chisel with a comfortable
handle that is precisely sized for my intended purpose. I don't mind renewing the
edge of chisels more frequently (after all, a chisel is easy to renew as it
requires no disassembly and readjustment like a plane), but despise having to
repair a chipped edge. This means I use my Sorby's and Greenlees for the majority
of my work, White steel Japanese triangle shaped chisels for paring dovetails,
Iyoroi chisels for very narrow cuts and channels, and use my cheap Buck chisels a
lot more often than I would have guessed.
Specific to the Iyoroi chisels, I find their handles to be smaller in diameter than
some of the more premium Japanese chisels and I prefer Japanese paring chisels with
rounded handle ends to those such as the Iyoroi that have squared off ends with a
hoop. The latter (Kinari Nomi) paring chisels are usually 3 to 5 times the cost of
the Iyoroi and thus I don't find them a good value compared to high quality Western
chisels (new or old) or even compared to the Iyoroi.
Hopefully something in all of that will be useful for you :-)
Lyn
Kim Whitmyre
Next time you have a bonfire of dollars, invite me!! ; - ] I've got stuff
that will burn and will gladly swap it for the dollars. . . ; - ]
Kim
Layne
>
> another good choice are the white steel handmade chisels japan woodworkers
> sells. they are a bit more but they are good chisels that I have used for years.
Steve,
Are you talking about the Japan Woodworker's white steel house brand
or the Matsumura white steel chisels. Both were tested in FWW with the
Matsumura rated #1 and the Japan Woodworker house brand rated #10.
Thanks,
Layne
Peter Wells
>
>But I have the desire to buy another set of bench chisels. Even
>though I have sufficient chisels to make anything but handcut
>mortices. I will also be acquiring some mortice chisels. After
>perusing the various marketplaces and reading various opinions here
>and there, the Japanese chisels interest me. I'm not a fan of
>sharpening and like to do it as infrequently as possible. The cheap
>sets of Iyoroi chisels seem to be low cost yet are made by a company
>that had one of their higher end long firmer chisels rated very well
>in the 1999 Fine Woodworking test.
>
>The Two Cherries brand of bench and mortice chisels are also
>appealing. And since I plan to order from Axminster in England and
>Dieter Schmid in Germany, I can purchase Two Cherries from one of
>these vendors. Along with other tools. And/or the Iyoroi chisels
>from Axminster.
>
My tupp'ence worht: if I had all the money and the time in the world, I would probably get
all Japanese, trying all the handles to find those I liked. But I haven't, and I find that
the Two Cherries are very nice to hold and use, and take and keep a good edge (I work
mainly oak).
I got one wide Iyoroi from Axminster, very nice blade but the handle feels odd; as others
have said, the feel is essential. On the other hand, my lone Japanese cabinetmaker's
mortising chisel (from Japan Woodworker) sees more use than all the others put together,
because I love the small hande and hard edge (rehoned slighltly more obtuse than
original).
Steve Knight
>Are you talking about the Japan Woodworker's white steel house brand
>or the Matsumura white steel chisels. Both were tested in FWW with the
>Matsumura rated #1 and the Japan Woodworker house brand rated #10.
the Matsumura they are not bad at all for the price.