Hardwood floor: DIY or pay the man?
Jim Martin
I have just bought a 1927 house with hardwood floors. The floors have been
sanded so many times that there is a lot of splitting at the edge of the
boards. I guess the tongue (not really the tongue is it? the top of the
groove?) gets too thin and then you get splitting. A local hardwood floor
guy is quoting me $2.90/ft^2 to sand, fill the cracks, and finish with poly.
Or, he can replace the whole floor for about $7.75/ft^2. McBeath Hardwoods
sells BEAUTIFUL 1/4 sawn oak flooring for $3.71/ft^2.
I have reasonable skill at making furniture but have never worked on a
house. This leads me to a many-optioned question. Should I:
a) pay the man to refinish the floors (seems like a good option but the idea
of all the epoxyed-up cracks is unattractive).
b) buy epoxy, poly, rent a sander and try to refinish it myself (this seems
risky because the floor is already soo thin that I would have very little
room for error during my first try. Plus it still requires the filled
cracks. But it would be much less expensive)
c) pay to have the floor replaced ($$$)
d) buy the flooring and replace it myself
i) can I do a few strips at a time so that I don't have to tear up the
whole floor?
ii) can I replace the subflooring to stop all that creaking?
e) these options are complicated by the fact that I have an 11 month old
floor scootin' munchkin to consider.
Thanks in advance for your input. If this has been a topic that I missed on
deja, please direct me to the subject line.
Cheers,
Jim
Russell Green
Rent a floor nailer and take up the old floor.
If your subfloor is questionable it just a bigger, messier job
that you'll want a little help with. Find a contractor to help with the
subfloor phase
if its required.
Refinishing doesn't sound like a real option for you OR the pro.
Good luck,
Russ
David Bugg
news:6AQ95.2392$Fq6.2...@news.uswest.net...
> Hello All:
>
> I have just bought a 1927 house with hardwood floors. The floors have
been
> sanded so many times that there is a lot of splitting at the edge of
the
> boards. I guess the tongue (not really the tongue is it? the top of
the
> groove?) gets too thin and then you get splitting. A local hardwood
floor
> guy is quoting me $2.90/ft^2 to sand, fill the cracks, and finish
with poly.
> Or, he can replace the whole floor for about $7.75/ft^2. McBeath
Hardwoods
> sells BEAUTIFUL 1/4 sawn oak flooring for $3.71/ft^2.
>
This is a good topic for alt.home.repair.
Russell Smallwood
Hey Jim,
I had the option of a DIY floor project, but by the time I looked at
equipment rental, finishing supplies, materials and added some $$ for
the mistakes I'd make I decided that It was cheaper to have somebody do
it for me. I enjoyed the extra shop time that I got as a result and
probably got a better floor to boot.
Russell
--
psst...hand tool enthusiasts....www.galootsville.org
Hoff Stuart
I have installed hardwood flooring and it isn't that tough. I wouldn't
go with the option of filling the cracks. Get some prices on having
someone put in a floor. By the time you buy the hardwood (allowing at
least 10% for wastage) and rent the nailer they may be very close to
what it would cost you -- not counting your labor. The reason I did my
own was that it was marginally cheaper and I could clear all the
furniture out of a room, do that room and then wait a month to do the
next room. Didn't have to do the work or move the furniture all at once.
I was able to work out a deal on the nailer so that I bought it and then
resold it to the hardwood store for the same price. No pressure to
finish in one day or even one week. I kept it for months.
Hoff Stuart
Jim Martin wrote:
>
> Hello All:
>
> I have just bought a 1927 house with hardwood floors. The floors have been
> sanded so many times that there is a lot of splitting at the edge of the
> boards. I guess the tongue (not really the tongue is it? the top of the
> groove?) gets too thin and then you get splitting. A local hardwood floor
> guy is quoting me $2.90/ft^2 to sand, fill the cracks, and finish with poly.
> Or, he can replace the whole floor for about $7.75/ft^2. McBeath Hardwoods
> sells BEAUTIFUL 1/4 sawn oak flooring for $3.71/ft^2.
>
Jim Martin
Your approach of one room at a time sounds really good to me. I'll start
calling around for prices for the nailer. I'll also ask for bids, but the
option of doing it myself, one room at a time sounds great. Think it would
be reasonable to do a room in one day? Or maybe pull up the old floor in one
day and put down the new floor the next day?
Thanks,
Jim
"Hoff Stuart" <hhst...@ma.ultranet.com> wrote in message
news:3968A008...@ma.ultranet.com...
wdy...@nospam.ix.netcom.com
without making it yourself or paying much more than you're looking at,
so I wouldn't go piecemeal on a replacement. My mother looked at
replacing her floors (much older than yours) and settled for
refinishing. Luckily, someone had decided to cover them years ago, so
the wood had not been repeatedly sanded down. Her planks were 4 or 6
inches wide and much thicker than anything sold now.
I can't say I've done it myself, but plenty of my family members
friends (most with very limited ww skills) have put in their own wood
floors without any real problems. Once you get things laid out and
know where to start, it shouldn't be that hard, assuming you have a
flat subfloor. That could be another issue.
I think what you need to weigh is whether or not the difference in
price is worth the time you have to put in AND the pride you'll have
in having done it yourself. A wood floor is a high visibility item
that usually grabs people's attention when they come into a home, and
if you can say "Yep, I did this myself", that's worth some extra elbow
grease.
On Sat, 8 Jul 2000 17:28:44 -0600, "Jim Martin" <jcma...@sph.sc.edu>
RebelYowl
farmhouse...We just moved in last month. The owner was looking to sell, but we
charmed him into renting to us instead...Anyway, the floors are all hardwood
tongue and groove. When we first walked into the house, it was all beige
carpeting. When we were in the basement, I noticed the flooring, which poked
out beyond the bottom stair tread.
The owner had no idea he had hardwood floors, but he's cool to my idea of
eventually ripping out the carpetting and re-finishing the floors. (We have an
option to buy.)
Anyway, I peeled back a bit of carpet and was most sad to see carpet tacking
strips. I found them in 3 rooms of the house, so I imagine the entire house has
them.
My plan is to go room by room...Since I've never done this before, I think it's
prudent..Let the first room and all its misadventures set the route for an
eventually successful process for the rest of them. I imagine that these
strips are adhered by some sort of adhesive, since they obviously came with
upright nails preinstalled for carpet attachment? Might be a really good
reason to buy a PC belt sander...Yeah, slower than a floor sander, but at least
I get to keep the PC when the job is done. :)
Anyone with suggestions or hard luck stories/things to avoid, please email me
directly....I'm going to start hacking and slashing as soon as I finish
painting the study...Oh, the joys of living in the 'burbs!!!!
Sorry for babbling...long day at work...N'Sync loaded in to RFK Stadium today
and it was nothing but attitude from their crew..... UGH!
Regards,
Meredith
John Emmons
hardwood floors, the carpet strips were nailed to the edges of the
hardwood, no glue involved.
I used a small pry bar and a hammer to pry them up after tearing the
carpeting up. Quite a mess but worth it. The carpeting tends to keep
the hardwood from being too damaged, unless it was in bad shape before
the carpeting was installed of course.
I'm still planning on paying a floor refinisher to sand out and
re-finish the floors, too much work and a belt sander won't cut it.
John Emmons
RebelYowl wrote in message
<20000710020142...@ng-df1.aol.com>...
Charles Self
>You probably aren't going to find anything to match 1927 wood flooring
>without making it yourself or paying much more than you're looking at,
>so I wouldn't go piecemeal on a replacement. My mother looked at
>replacing her floors (much older than yours) and settled for
>refinishing. Luckily, someone had decided to cover them years ago, so
>the wood had not been repeatedly sanded down. Her planks were 4 or 6
>inches wide and much thicker than anything sold now.
Don't forget to check small local millwork sources before giving up on matching
(or special) flooring. I've seen places that made 5" wide walnut t&g, cherry,
many kinds and widths of oak, and special thicknesses of several woods (one guy
ordered 1-1/2", which should outlast just about any person).
Of course, keep in mind that this kind of hardwood flooring isn't going to be
the same price as the stuff on the shelf at HD or Lowes.
Charlie Self
Word Worker
Bernie Hunt
I wouldn't worry about the carpet tacks. We just pulled up the carpets from
our 1950s house. There were carpet tacks everywhere, but by the time the
sanding was done, you really don't notice them. Yes if you look in the
corner you can still see the dark marks from the nail holes, but the reset
of the room keeps your eyes on the beauty of the floor.
As a funny asside. My wife has two new kitttens. I took some pictures of
them playing on the floor so she could show the people at work. Most
everyone she showed commented on the beautiful floor that the cats where
sitting on, hahahaha. Most people thought it was new. It's actually 50 year
old red oak resanded and finished.
Bernie
RebelYowl <rebe...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20000710020142...@ng-df1.aol.com...
dona...@pogo.wv.tek.com
Hi Jim,
I went through this last summer. Before I started, I took a class
on installing and a class on finishing from a local flooring company
that installs alot of hardwood floors. Each class was $15.00. Well
worth every penny. If you decide to put the floor in yourself, I
would recommend that you bite the bullet and do it all at once.
Once you start sanding, you will get dust every where.
I had several choices on the project:
1) Do it all myself (which I did).
2) Install the floor and have a pro sand it.
3) Install the floor and have a pro sand and finish.
4) Have the pro do it all.
Because I install ~550 sq/ft of flooring, it cost ~$1.50 sq/ft to
sand and finish. This included renting the sanders and using
a Danish finish (water base poly). I went with a #2 common red
oak for the floor. I really like the rustic look with knots and
mineral streaks.
Good luck
Don
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Hoff Stuart
Once it is in, you are done. No sawdust, no fumes, no waiting.
Hoff Stuart
Jerry Fountain
Jim Martin <jcma...@sph.sc.edu> wrote:
>Hello All:
>
>I have just bought a 1927 house with hardwood floors. The floors have been
>sanded so many times that there is a lot of splitting at the edge of the
>boards. I guess the tongue (not really the tongue is it? the top of the
>groove?) gets too thin and then you get splitting. A local hardwood floor
>guy is quoting me $2.90/ft^2 to sand, fill the cracks, and finish with poly.
>Or, he can replace the whole floor for about $7.75/ft^2. McBeath Hardwoods
>sells BEAUTIFUL 1/4 sawn oak flooring for $3.71/ft^2.
>
>I have reasonable skill at making furniture but have never worked on a
>house. This leads me to a many-optioned question. Should I:
<posted and e-mailed>
Jim,
My wife and I were in a similar situation with our 1923 bungalow that we had
purchased. The old oak and maple floors were ruined ("water" stains on all
the oak and lanolium (sp?) glued to the kitchen maple. The result was that
we had to tear out and replace them all. Luckily, we had some gap time
before we had to move in, so no furniture.
We had the same choice as you with regard to the job. We were in a
situation where we couldn't repair the floor cost effectively (it would cost
a ton, and be patchwork looking). So, after looking at the options, we
elected to purchase the wood from the flooring company, install it
ourselves, and have them come back and sand/finish it. We chose this option
as installation is fairly simple for anyone who is handy (note that I did
NOT say fast or easy) and by doing it ourselves we would save the
installation labor cost. Finishing is another matter as you would need to
rent the sanders (big drum for the middle of the floor and an edge sander
for along the walls), plus a floor polisher (for screening between coats).
Since these could span days, the rental cost + materials almost equaled
having the crew do it. In hind sight, it was a blessing (more to that
later).
So, to help you decide if you want to do this yourself, follow along....
We did everything in 3/4" red oak to save on cost (rather than quartersawn)
and it is more traditional for the house and area. We did go with select
and better boards. A bit over 1,200 square feet all total. Since we
purchased the wood, nails, and finishing from the supplier, they loaned us
the nailer for the job, and we ended up also getting an edge nailer as well.
This seems negotiable with the supplier. We went with a manual nailer after
talking with a few different people and reading some books. It *is* harder
to use, but the general idea is that it helps to get the boards as tight
together as possible when compared with a pneumatic (air) nailer.
Ok, so get the wood into the house early (a couple of weeks at least is
recommended), and stack it so that it can equilibrate as much as possible.
Some people recommend opening the bundles to speed the process.
Prep (before wood arrived) required tearing out the old boards. There will
be lots of nails, and the old style of install was on sleepers (small strips
of wood laid in the same direction as the joists, similar to furring
strips). The way I'd recommend getting the old floor out would be to cut
across it with a circular saw with a nail-tough blade. Then use pry bars to
roll it up, sort of like cutting sod. Don't plan on using the wood for
anything. The finish is not too good for burning, and there are the
nails...
After everything was off, we pulled the sleepers and red rosin paper. The
old subfloor was planking with a fair amount of loose nails (not bad
considering the age). These we went though and *screwed* down, replacing
any that had problems (complete splits was the most common). On top of this
we laid 1/2" CDX plywood, gluing (construction adhesive) and screwing. This
was to bring the replacement floor up to the old floor height (primarily for
the jams and thresholds) and to provide a better nailing surface. On top of
this was stapled roll tar paper.
Installation was tedious, but straightforward. Most important was to
establish a true centerline for the first center course. I'd suggest using
a scrap of plywood and practice nailing a couple of rows before working on
the real floor. With a manual nailer you swing a heavy (I think it was an
8lb) flooring hammer, striking the plunger and driving the boards together
while at the same time the nail is set at the correct angle. The air
nailers are supposed to be good with setting the nail, but since they
require so much less force from the hammer to activate, the boards are not
pushed together as firmly. Don't assume that all the boards will be
straight. Plenty needed more than a little coaxing to line up (the books
had lots of suggestions of devices to make to help). We worked from the
center of the main room on throughout the house as one continuous slab of
T&G floor. You will need the edge-nailer (aka top-nailer) for the 3-4 rows
closest to the parallel walls since the angle of the gun won't let you get
in close enough. Also, save any short or "ugly" boards for closets since
they wont be seen.
So, how long did it take to lay down 1,200 square feet of red oak with
13,000 nails (yup, we had 15,000 and returned two 1,000 packages)? Just the
laydown took 7 days. During that time it was just my wife and I, and a guy
we hired as daylabor for 5 days (carry boards, nail some to relieve me, help
SWMBO lay out the boards as she checked the layout and for double seams).
Add to this whatever prep time you need to get the subfloor. On the morning
of the of the 5th day, I noticed it took a while to open my hands when I
woke up. By the 7th day, it took about 45 minutes to "warm-up" my hands
from swinging/grasping the mallet. Doctor said not to worry, I'd recover
:-) Tendonitis.
The crew showed up the next morning to fill, then sand, then put down three
coats of poly. It took them a week during which we stayed out of the house.
They did a great job, and it still looks great. SWMBO and I were dead
tired, so the fact that they took over was VERY welcome. To date, only one
squeak, and then only during the winter.
Was it worth it? We saved about $1200 doing the labor ourselves, but it
took a lot of time (7 days). We think it was worth it from a quality
standpoint.
We got considerably faster as we went, so now it would probably only take 4
days for us (they mentioned their installers, an old father/son team, could
do it in two). If your labor time is something you can trade for cash, then
I'd probably say let someone else do it. But that will only work if they do
the whole thing at once. If you could, I'd guess the best way would be to
prep it room by room, getting the subfloor to the plywood point, then moving
another room of stuff in and living on the plywood for a few weeks (get a
couple of cheap area rugs for the little tyke). Then, take the family on a
trip somewhere else for a week while the pros come in and finish it off.
Well, time to end this rambling...
Jerry
--
Jerry Fountain | Laboratory for Fluid Mechanics, Chaos, and Mixing
g...@chem-eng.nwu.edu | Northwestern University
(847) 491-3555 (Office) | Department of Chemical Engineering
(847) 491-3728 (FAX) | 2145 Sheridan Road, Evanston, IL 60208
woodm...@webtv.net
You should be able to install flooring in a room in one day, if it's
not "cut up" with odd corners or doorways to closets and such. If you
have a straight shot from one wall to the other, should be no problem.
The main thing is to lay-out your flooring several runs at a time, so
you don't have to make to many trips to the chop saw. I'm not a
professional installer, but as a carpenter in the home building
business, I've had to install several floors, plus fix quite a few that
other's have installed improperly. HTH's
Mike G.
Gordon Lee
at my workplace, it took them three days to cover a space about 25' x 40'.
They had to maneuver around and cover a four step set of stairs and a
handicap ramp. The fussy part of the job was making sure that the seams
line up reasonably parallel and perpendicular to other lines in the room.
At home, I tore up carpet and had a pro redo all of the heart pine floors
in our 1888 victorian. The carpet strip nail holes do mostly disappear.
Instead of the standard poly coat, we used something called Velvit Oil
which soaks in, hardens up and leaves a matt finish, which gives the
wood a more natural and less plastic appearance. Another advantage
to this oil is that the finish can be touched up easily in the future
without
worrying about the consistency of the appearance. The only thing we
would have done different is applied extra coats in the kitchen where
most of the traffic/mess happens. For more info:
http://www.velvitproducts.com/products/VelvitOil.html
If you redo the subfloor, a good measure to reduce squeaks is to lay
a bead of 'silent floor' flexible caulk along each joist before putting
down the subfloor.
- GL
Pat Barber
> > > I have just bought a 1927 house with hardwood floors.
Snipped part about bad floors..........................
I just finished putting down a little over 550 sq ft of oak
flooring. After MUCH examination, we chose to use a prefinished
engineered floor. The flooring is 9/16" thick and comes in
6" planks. My wife and I ripped up carpet, repaired any spots
that were suspect. I chose to use a nailer(Porta-Nailer) and
it took us just over two days to complete the floor. Here are
the things you should consider:
1. What condition is the surface you will apply flooring.
2. What to do about door jambs and molding.
3. How do you "transition" to other rooms(carpet,tile,etc)
4. What about special tools you might need(nailer,jamb saw,chop saw)
5. Where do you put all the furniture that is currently in area ??
6. "How" do you want to put down floor(float,nailed,glued)
7. Finished or unfinished (Our biggest decision)
The flooring cost was 3.97 sq ft BUT you are done when the floor is
put down.(Paratech California Long Boards)
You might also want to consider one of the MANY high pressure laminate
floors that are now available.(Wilson Art,Formica, etc,etc)
The prices are ALL over the scale on this stuff and Home Centers
are NOT the place to buy flooring.