Biscuit joiner problems

[Michael]

Even when I clamp down the wood on a flat surface when I use the joiner, and the wood is planed to the exact same thickness, my joints are 1/64 off along the full length of the joint. This has happened almost every time. It's just not logical that this is happening. Any helpful thoughts?

Thanks,

Mike

[Leon]

If the biscuits do not fit relatively tightly in the slots they will allow
up and down movement.
Do not reference the bottom of the joiner to the work surface.. Always use
the joiner fence for indexing.

This can also happen if the boards are not perfectly flat.

[dpb]

Sounds like you're not using the same reference face uniformly for all
pieces to me...

--

[Larry W]

In article <7099e4ac-07b9-43df...@googlegroups.com>,

Is it possible that rather than the slot distance from the edge being
off 1/64, that the slots are not parallel to the edge? i.e. the axis of
the slots in the 2 mating boards is not parallel? I don't have easy
access to it right now, but as I recall, there is an adjustment
for this on my deWalt plate joiner.



--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

[knuttle]

I don't have a biscuit joiner but cut my slots on a router table.
However the same principle applies. ALWAYS cut the slot to the same
relative surface. ie if you are cutting a picture frame always cut the
slot with the face up,

As I said I don't have a biscuit joiner but if the fence defines the
depth of the biscuit slot then the same surface of the should always be
against the fence. If a cabinet face frame then the outer surface.


I avoid this problem by not centering the biscuit slot. I put it so
that top edge of the slot is below the center line of the piece that I
am cutting. By cutting them all against the same face, then mistakes
are immediately evident.

With long pieces, you can have problems by not feeding the piece into
the cutter square to the fence. ie so the slot is cut at an angle to
the end of the piece. This can be exaggerated if you start the feed at
and angle and end the cut square.

This is the reason I use a router table. It is easier to insure the
piece is flat on the table square when you start the cut, and don't have
to worry able wobbling the biscuit joiner. (Understand this goes out
the window on a slot into the face of the board, But the possibility of
wobble is still there.)

[Mike]

On 5/26/2013 11:55 PM, Michael wrote:

Lots of good advice so far. I would add that I had a similar problem
when I first started using a biscuit joiner. What I did to resolve it
was clamp the piece so it couldn't move when I was cutting the slot.
That allowed me to concentrate on holding the fence flat on the
reference surface and the machine tight against the piece.

Mike

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Mon, 27 May 2013 10:45:49 -0400, Mike <Mi...@somewhere.net> wrote:



>
>Lots of good advice so far. I would add that I had a similar problem
>when I first started using a biscuit joiner. What I did to resolve it
>was clamp the piece so it couldn't move when I was cutting the slot.
>That allowed me to concentrate on holding the fence flat on the
>reference surface and the machine tight against the piece.
>
>Mike

Yes, and make sure it is at the edge of the bench so you are using the
fence properly for alignment and the tool does not rest on the bench.

[TinWoodsmn]

My biscuit joiner fence is not parallel to the blade. Check yours. If there
is an adjustment for the De Walt 625(?) I would love to hear it.


"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:gos6q89974qqpf32a...@4ax.com...

[Sonny]

On Sunday, May 26, 2013 10:55:51 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:
> Even when I clamp down the wood on a flat surface when I use the joiner, and the wood is planed to the exact same thickness, my joints are 1/64 off along the full length of the joint. This has happened almost every time. It's just not logical that this is happening. Any helpful thoughts? Thanks, Mike

Possibly?
Check to make sure there isn't some loose debris interferring with alignment, randomly getting between the tool and work piece, or something stuck on the center of the tools upper facing plate, to cause a slight teetering effect, if the slot is not parallel to the face.

Sonny

Sonny

[-MIKE-]

On 5/27/13 10:12 AM, TinWoodsmn wrote:
> My biscuit joiner fence is not parallel to the blade. Check yours. If
> there is an adjustment for the De Walt 625(?) I would love to hear it.
>

Hammer? :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[dpb]

On 5/27/2013 9:45 AM, Mike wrote:
...

> Lots of good advice so far. I would add that I had a similar problem
> when I first started using a biscuit joiner. What I did to resolve it
> was clamp the piece so it couldn't move when I was cutting the slot.
> That allowed me to concentrate on holding the fence flat on the
> reference surface and the machine tight against the piece.

For small pieces, I do the opposite--I've a cradle on the bench for the
joiner and I bring the work to it.

--

[woodchucker]

I am curious why you say don't use the bottom.
Either the fence or the bottom are useful. just as long as you use the
same for both joints. 1/64 is not extreme, but not perfect. As Leon said
if the biscuit is not tight then you have a potential error. I always
nudge the boards as my biscuits are variable. I use them to prevent
sliding when I use them. Mostly when edge joining I don't...

--
Jeff

[woodchucker]

Hmmm. don't know, but what about making a shim? Make it on the tablesaw.

--
Jeff

[Michael]

Thanks for the good insights everyone. I have not been using the fence because my work table is flat and the pieces went through the thickness planer and appear to have exactly the same thickness. It seems logical to me that the biscuit joiner will make the same cut on all pieces, but I'll try the fence!

Thanks again.

Mike

[Leon]

On 5/27/2013 12:28 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 5/27/2013 12:57 AM, Leon wrote:
>> Michael <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Even when I clamp down the wood on a flat surface when I use the joiner,
>>> and the wood is planed to the exact same thickness, my joints are 1/64
>>> off along the full length of the joint. This has happened almost every
>>> time. It's just not logical that this is happening. Any helpful
>>> thoughts?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>> If the biscuits do not fit relatively tightly in the slots they will
>> allow
>> up and down movement.
>> Do not reference the bottom of the joiner to the work surface..
>> Always use
>> the joiner fence for indexing.
>>
>> This can also happen if the boards are not perfectly flat.
>>
> I am curious why you say don't use the bottom.

Because after using the bottom of the jointer for many years and having
inconsistent results I finally determined that if the board/panel is not
perfectly flat of not setting perfectly flat on the work surface the
alignment can be thrown off. A small piece of 1/32" thick debris under
the piece receiving the slot can throw that slot off by that amount.
When you use the fence as the reference you only have to worry what is
between the fence and the work and you can see what is in that location.
If the board is not perfectly flat the fence dies not exaggerate the
whole deflection as would happen if the joiner was on the work surface
and the board had as much as 1/16" bow.

On paper it makes sense to use the bottom of the joiner on the work
surface. The paper does not take into account other factors and if any
of the debris escapes the cut the likely hood of the work surface being
contaminated increases the odds of a problem. The relatively small
joiner fence eliminates most of the problems.

> Either the fence or the bottom are useful. just as long as you use the
> same for both joints. 1/64 is not extreme, but not perfect. As Leon said
> if the biscuit is not tight then you have a potential error.

Yeah, that is what I said.

[Leon]

On 5/27/2013 10:12 AM, TinWoodsmn wrote:
> My biscuit joiner fence is not parallel to the blade. Check yours. If
> there is an adjustment for the De Walt 625(?) I would love to hear it.
>

May I suggest the adjustment that involves you wallet and a trip to your
local Festool Dealer? LOL.

Fence being parallel to the blade is an absolute necessity.

[Leon]

Regardless if the work bench is flat the wood may not be flat. Just
because your wood was sent through a planer does not mean it is flat, it
mostly means that it is smooth and a uniform thickness.

[Leon]

ABSOLUTELY, that will bite you if you don't pay attention to that small
detail.

[John Grossbohlin]

"Leon" wrote in message
news:177458287391410252.411...@news.giganews.com...

>Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

>> Yes, and make sure it is at the edge of the bench so you are using the
>> fence properly for alignment and the tool does not rest on the bench.

>ABSOLUTELY, that will bite you if you don't pay attention to that small
>detail.

...and keep your fingers out of there too. I know someone who biscuit
slotted their finger... makes a mess and interferes with alignment. ;~)

[Lew Hodgett]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What you are trying to do is like trying to push on a rope.

I surface my table stock 13/16" proud and don't sweat trying to line
up the boards as the glue-up proceeds.

I let the glue cure a week, then it's off to the drum sander and the
top is sanded to 3/4" final size.

Makes life a lot easier.

Lew

[Larry W]

In article <51a6b7cb$0$12205$c3e8da3$6901...@news.astraweb.com>,

Lew Hodgett <sails...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>"Michael" wrote:
>
>> Even when I clamp down the wood on a flat surface when I use the
>> joiner, and the wood is planed to the exact same thickness, my
>> joints are 1/64 off along the full length of the joint. This has
>> happened almost every time. It's just not logical that this is
>> happening. Any helpful thoughts?
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>What you are trying to do is like trying to push on a rope.
>
>I surface my table stock 13/16" proud and don't sweat trying to line
>up the boards as the glue-up proceeds.
>

Wow, with over 3/4" to plane and/or sand down, I guess you really don't
have to worry about lining up the board surfaces...



--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation
with the average voter. (Winston Churchill)

[Lew Hodgett]

Lew Hodgett wrote:

>What you are trying to do is like trying to push on a rope.
>
>I surface my table stock 13/16" proud and don't sweat trying to line
>up the boards as the glue-up proceeds.

--------------------------------------

"Larry W" wrote:

> Wow, with over 3/4" to plane and/or sand down, I guess you really
> don't
> have to worry about lining up the board surfaces...

-----------------------------------------------
OK, I give up.

Where did the above come from?

Lew

[chaniarts]

13/16"?

[Bill]

I think he just left out a comma:

I surface my table stock 13/16", proud (by 1/16" or so) and don't sweat
trying to line...

[Lew Hodgett]

"Larry W" wrote:

> Wow, with over 3/4" to plane and/or sand down, I guess you really
> don't
> have to worry about lining up the board surfaces...
-----------------------------------------------

Lew Hodgett wrote:

> I surface my table stock 13/16" proud and don't sweat trying to

> line...

------------------------------------------------
"chaniarts" wrote:

> 13/16"?
--------------------------------------
Would you prefer 0.8125"?

Lew

[Michael]

Why would you not sweat trying to (or actually) lining up?

[Lew Hodgett]

"Michael" wrote:

> Why would you not sweat trying to (or actually) lining up?

-------------------------------------------------------
Running the assembled piece thru a drum sander as the final machining
operation eliminates all the material thickness and assembly
variations in one step.

Lew

[dr...@nevencustomtrim.com]

We have 3 dewalt units and one of them has been this way since for ever. I don't see any way to adjust it. Junk!

[Keith Nuttle]

Precision is the reason that I use a slot cutter and a router table.
With the piece flat on the table when the slot is cut, gives far better
precision that a biscuit.

If you do the proper setup you can get precision and speed on the table.