Re: OT: Miter box

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Michael Trew

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Sep 21, 2021, 12:51:38 AMSep 21
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On 9/20/2021 8:37 PM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
> Why are miter boxes so short? I have to cut 45 degree angles for the
> baseboards at my son's house. They are 6.5" tall, but even if they were
> only 4 inches, most miter boxes would be too short. My miter *saw*
> would cut 4" ones, but I'm going to have to hand cut them, and to do so
> I had to make my own extra tall miter box. By now the glue is dry. It took
> me a couple of hours to figure it out and build it from wood than I already
> had at home. Here's my crazy contraption.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/36178182@N08/albums/72157719878210779
> It's not done. There's still some hand sawing left to finish it, but then I have
> to cut the baseboards by hand. Those of you who do woodworking might
> find this amusing.
>
> --Bryan
>
> "If you don’t like tamales, then there must be something wrong with you."
> -- https://iamnm.com/traditional-new-mexico-red-chile-tamales/

I don't do a lot of woodworking, but I have to do some for work in one
of my homes. This is a good topic for rec.woodworking

I've had the same complaint about too-small miter boxes, I can't fathom
why they can't even hold a normal sized piece of baseboard. My solution
was to buy an electric miter saw from my neighbor, used for $30.. if you
check the prices in stores on 12 inch blade miter saws, I think I got a
darn good deal. I did, of course, have to buy a new blade. The plastic
safety shield was broken, so I ripped it the rest of the way off (those
really get in the way).

Pic linked of my saw. Please don't mind the filthy basement. I don't
think the laser guide works, but you can set the angle accurate enough
to do nice 45's or whatever. I would not get a smaller blade miter saw,
considering that you'd be in the same boat of not being able to chop
trim; this time because the blade won't reach.

https://postimg.cc/PLRK88Jr

J. Clarke

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Sep 21, 2021, 8:33:40 AMSep 21
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When I was a kid we didn't have these fancy store-bought miter boxes.
You took three boards, nailed/screwed/glued them together in a "u"
shape, and very carefully laid out the angle, then very carefully
sawed it with a back saw. And then you had a miter box until you wore
out the slots and had to make a new one.

DerbyDad03

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Sep 21, 2021, 10:24:48 AMSep 21
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I guess if you don't mind standing on rickety scaffolding 30' in the air,
a blade guard would certainly seem to be an inconvenience. ;-)

I'll keep mine intact.

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 21, 2021, 8:39:12 PMSep 21
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I wouldn't use a miter saw on rickety scaffolding 30' in the air. ;-)

>I'll keep mine intact.

...and on the ground.

Michael Trew

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Sep 23, 2021, 12:15:19 AMSep 23
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> ....and on the ground.

Trust me, the miter saw stays on the ground.. haha

Michael Trew

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Sep 23, 2021, 12:16:44 AMSep 23
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Well, the old common sense tells me not to put my fingers near the shiny
spinning sharp hunk of wood-gnawing metal.. as it also gnaws body parts ;)

If it weren't broken, I would have kept it intact, but it kept getting
gaumed up and wouldn't retract.

Bill

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Sep 23, 2021, 1:30:24 AMSep 23
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DerbyDad03

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Sep 23, 2021, 12:00:36 PMSep 23
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Common sense certainly comes into play when using any power tool, but
many people, with a lot of common sense, have been injured on the job site.

Mistakes happen, distractions happen, wandering minds happen.

>
> If it weren't broken, I would have kept it intact, but it kept getting
> gaumed up and wouldn't retract.

If it keeps getting gaumed/gummed up, I have to question what you are
cutting.

BTW...when a safety device is involved, I lean towards "repair" vs. "removal".

Clare Snyder

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Sep 23, 2021, 3:02:35 PMSep 23
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That's why they make the blade tip on a table saw!!! 14 inch high
baseboadrs?? NO PROBLEM!!!! As long as they aren't over about 2 inches
thick - - -
Cut to the "outside" length plus a predetermined amount, install the
fence so with the end on the fence the blade cuts EXACTLY where you
want it and start cutting. As long as you measure and cut to the
proper length the miters will be exactly the right length and angle
EVERY TIME.

Clare Snyder

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Sep 23, 2021, 3:04:13 PMSep 23
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The "cordless radial arm saw"

Markem618

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Sep 23, 2021, 4:11:10 PMSep 23
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Search around see if you can find a Delta Buck Saw, hard to find but
better than SCMS.

Leon

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Sep 23, 2021, 5:33:32 PMSep 23
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Well, common sense is not always with us when we are working near shiny
spinning sharp things. Unless you are GOD or a Super Hero you are
capable of making a mistake regardless of how much training or how smart
you think you are.

I will say the number reason that most woodworkers have accidents on
their table saws is because they did not have a guard on their saws.
Unfortunately 99.999999999999999% of table saw guards hindered rather
than helped.
Some cuts are impossible to make with a guard mounted. And that brings
us to the solution to mistakes, SawStop.

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 23, 2021, 8:59:33 PMSep 23
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I would have spent the $100 on a HF SMCS. I've had one for years, not
that gets much use these days. It's purpose is now outside carpentry.
It works and I don't care if it gets wet.

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 23, 2021, 9:01:25 PMSep 23
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On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 01:30:18 -0400, Bill <none...@att.net> wrote:

I have one of those, too. My outlaws bought it for me about 50 years
ago. It's a nice tool but it isn't a Kapex.

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 23, 2021, 9:02:46 PMSep 23
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On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:04:11 -0400, Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:
Cordless forarm saw.

Michael Trew

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Sep 24, 2021, 6:16:54 PMSep 24
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That's pretty cool!

Michael Trew

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Sep 24, 2021, 6:18:16 PMSep 24
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The guard was halfway broken when I bought the used saw, and never
worked correctly. I'm pretty sure my neighbor who sold it to me bought
it as part of a lot in an auction. No clue what the PO's did to it.

Michael Trew

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Sep 24, 2021, 6:36:04 PMSep 24
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Trust me, I'm not advocating to pull off all stops/safeties; I'm not one
of those people (unless it comes to the doggone safety stop handle on
power mowers).

My table saw is downright ancient, I'm pretty sure it's a pre-war model,
no safeties.

Michael Trew

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Sep 24, 2021, 6:37:37 PMSep 24
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What is that, harbor freight saw?

Michael Trew

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Sep 24, 2021, 6:49:28 PMSep 24
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I think I just found one on Facebook Marketplace for $40.. thanks, might
go pick that up!

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 24, 2021, 10:45:08 PMSep 24
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On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 18:37:40 -0400, Michael Trew
Yes, HF == Harbor Freight

Something like this but I bought mine fifteenish years ago.
<https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/power-saws/miter/10-in-sliding-compound-miter-saw-61971.html>

DerbyDad03

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Sep 24, 2021, 10:55:49 PMSep 24
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I prefer mine...

https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/miter-saws-cm10gd-48431-p/

I kept my old 10" Delta non-slider for cutting metal, PT wood, branches, and
anything else I don't want to put under the Bosch.

Both guards are intact, although the Delta's is basically opaque from all the
metal it's cut. Sparks and plastic don't play well together.

Leon

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Sep 25, 2021, 9:01:34 AMSep 25
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I thought you had the articulating Bosch. Some one on here indicated
that dust collection on the Bosch was hideous.

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 25, 2021, 8:41:24 PMSep 25
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Hardly a $100 tool. I have a Bosch 5312 (no longer sold) but it was a
bit more than $100 too.

<https://mitersawhub.com/bosch-5312-12-inch-dual-bevel-slide-compound-miter-saw-review/>

>I kept my old 10" Delta non-slider for cutting metal, PT wood, branches, and
>anything else I don't want to put under the Bosch.

Sounds, well, loud.

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 25, 2021, 8:42:42 PMSep 25
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On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 08:01:27 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
Nope, a Bosch Glider (above). I'm dumping it soon because it takes
too much (front to back) space.

DerbyDad03

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Sep 25, 2021, 11:18:32 PMSep 25
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That may have been me. I don't recall that I said that it was "hideous" but
I do recall posting a link to the mod that I employed to improve it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRlZGApo6vA

Don refers to the stock dust collection as "not overly effective". Is
"overly effective" actually a good thing? Somehow it sounds like
something you *wouldn't* want a thing to be. Like using a shotgun
to kill a spider. Effective, sure, but maybe just a bit too much. ;-)

Puckdropper

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Sep 26, 2021, 3:44:13 AMSep 26
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Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:fuOdnVxPI9U4b9H8...@giganews.com:
>
>
> Well, common sense is not always with us when we are working near
> shiny spinning sharp things. Unless you are GOD or a Super Hero you
> are capable of making a mistake regardless of how much training or how
> smart you think you are.
>
> I will say the number reason that most woodworkers have accidents on
> their table saws is because they did not have a guard on their saws.
> Unfortunately 99.999999999999999% of table saw guards hindered rather
> than helped.
> Some cuts are impossible to make with a guard mounted. And that
> brings us to the solution to mistakes, SawStop.

I saw a saying here a long time ago. There are many 10-fingered
woodworkers who use their table saw without a guard. There are also,
however, NO 9-fingered woodworkers who use their table saw without a
guard.

I have to admit, I'm one of those 10-fingered guys... The guard for my
saw was so big and clumsy I could only use it if cutting plywood in half
or something giant like that. For the average cut where I'm taking 1/2"
off the remaining 3/8" offcut would get caught under the guard.

Puckdropper

J. Clarke

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Sep 26, 2021, 12:21:07 PMSep 26
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On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 07:44:09 GMT, Puckdropper <puckd...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
That's an issue with the design of guards. They shouldn't just flop
down on the workpiece--that should be an option but there should be a
way to _easily_ lock them at a height that allows clearance.

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 26, 2021, 8:17:45 PMSep 26
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On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 07:44:09 GMT, Puckdropper <puckd...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>news:fuOdnVxPI9U4b9H8...@giganews.com:
>>
>>
>> Well, common sense is not always with us when we are working near
>> shiny spinning sharp things. Unless you are GOD or a Super Hero you
>> are capable of making a mistake regardless of how much training or how
>> smart you think you are.
>>
>> I will say the number reason that most woodworkers have accidents on
>> their table saws is because they did not have a guard on their saws.
>> Unfortunately 99.999999999999999% of table saw guards hindered rather
>> than helped.
>> Some cuts are impossible to make with a guard mounted. And that
>> brings us to the solution to mistakes, SawStop.
>
>I saw a saying here a long time ago. There are many 10-fingered
>woodworkers who use their table saw without a guard. There are also,
>however, NO 9-fingered woodworkers who use their table saw without a
>guard.

How many of those (either group) do dados?

>I have to admit, I'm one of those 10-fingered guys... The guard for my
>saw was so big and clumsy I could only use it if cutting plywood in half
>or something giant like that. For the average cut where I'm taking 1/2"
>off the remaining 3/8" offcut would get caught under the guard.

I don't either, mainly because it's a PITA to mount. The riving knife
isn't any better (poorly implemented afterthought).

Leon

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Sep 26, 2021, 8:26:54 PMSep 26
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I do not use a gurard on my TS. Does 9.5 Fingers count? But then
again, SawStop.

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 27, 2021, 8:50:26 PMSep 27
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On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 19:26:46 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
But your wiener has a chunk out of it.

Puckdropper

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Sep 28, 2021, 4:22:29 AMSep 28
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k...@notreal.com wrote in
news:5kp4lg109u8ssicti...@4ax.com:
That's how you know it's done. It's split on the end and stuff is coming
out.

Puckdropper

Puckdropper

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Sep 28, 2021, 4:29:38 AMSep 28
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k...@notreal.com wrote in
news:2832lglhci7l5crl6...@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 07:44:09 GMT, Puckdropper <puckd...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>I saw a saying here a long time ago. There are many 10-fingered
>>woodworkers who use their table saw without a guard. There are also,
>>however, NO 9-fingered woodworkers who use their table saw without a
>>guard.
>
> How many of those (either group) do dados?

My guess is it's probably the same in both groups. It's just the
guard-users do it for every cut they can, the guard-don't-users just
don't.

>>I have to admit, I'm one of those 10-fingered guys... The guard for my
>>saw was so big and clumsy I could only use it if cutting plywood in
>>half or something giant like that. For the average cut where I'm
>>taking 1/2" off the remaining 3/8" offcut would get caught under the
>>guard.
>
> I don't either, mainly because it's a PITA to mount. The riving knife
> isn't any better (poorly implemented afterthought).

Every time I go to Ikea, I'm impressed by something. Some item I'm
looking at is well thought out, cheap, and very functional.

I wish they would do something like that for table saw guards. They've
already got the cheap part, it's just the other two that are missing.

Puckdropper

Michael Trew

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Sep 28, 2021, 1:41:58 PMSep 28
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On 9/28/2021 4:29 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Every time I go to Ikea, I'm impressed by something. Some item I'm
> looking at is well thought out, cheap, and very functional.
>
> I wish they would do something like that for table saw guards. They've
> already got the cheap part, it's just the other two that are missing.
>
> Puckdropper

I feel the same way, until I have to figure out how to assemble that
IKEA item, then I change my mind..

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 28, 2021, 2:43:51 PMSep 28
to
On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 08:29:34 GMT, Puckdropper <puckd...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>k...@notreal.com wrote in
>news:2832lglhci7l5crl6...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 07:44:09 GMT, Puckdropper <puckd...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>I saw a saying here a long time ago. There are many 10-fingered
>>>woodworkers who use their table saw without a guard. There are also,
>>>however, NO 9-fingered woodworkers who use their table saw without a
>>>guard.
>>
>> How many of those (either group) do dados?
>
>My guess is it's probably the same in both groups. It's just the
>guard-users do it for every cut they can, the guard-don't-users just
>don't.
>
>>>I have to admit, I'm one of those 10-fingered guys... The guard for my
>>>saw was so big and clumsy I could only use it if cutting plywood in
>>>half or something giant like that. For the average cut where I'm
>>>taking 1/2" off the remaining 3/8" offcut would get caught under the
>>>guard.
>>
>> I don't either, mainly because it's a PITA to mount. The riving knife
>> isn't any better (poorly implemented afterthought).
>
>Every time I go to Ikea, I'm impressed by something. Some item I'm
>looking at is well thought out, cheap, and very functional.

I'm most impressed by their packaging. Designing stuff to perfectly
fit into a box takes genius. FOr termite barf, their stuff is OK but
their hardware is bad. Really bad. I can't imagine an Ikea kitchen
lasting a year, much less 20.
>
>I wish they would do something like that for table saw guards. They've
>already got the cheap part, it's just the other two that are missing.

It doesn't seem that it would be all that hard, starting from scratch.
I guess they make them just to satisfy their lawyers.

Michael Trew

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Sep 30, 2021, 12:20:29 AMSep 30
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On 9/28/2021 2:43 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> I'm most impressed by their packaging. Designing stuff to perfectly
> fit into a box takes genius. FOr termite barf, their stuff is OK but
> their hardware is bad. Really bad. I can't imagine an Ikea kitchen
> lasting a year, much less 20.

When I worked for a contractor, we had to assemble an IKEA kitchen..
keep in mind, it was nearly a 100 year old house, and nothing was plumb.
It was absolute hell.. he said "IKEA kitchen.. NEVER AGAIN, unless
it's a new construction home. I absolutely loathe assembling their
furniture.

DerbyDad03

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Sep 30, 2021, 10:46:27 AMSep 30
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Wouldn't that same problem exist with *any* kitchen install in a 100 YO
house?

I'm pretty sure that all cabinets, custom built or stock from any company,
are (should be) square and plumb. Proper measurements, shims and filler
strips are essentials.

BTW...there is no guarantee that "new construction" is plumb either. That's a
dangerous assumption to make, unless you built the place yourself (correctly).

Michael Trew

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Sep 30, 2021, 11:04:44 AMSep 30
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True, it should always be plumb, but standard pre-built cabinets are far
more forgiving to shim and install in an out of square house, rather
than trying to build complex MDF cabinets that interlock and keep them
plumb.

The IKEA cabinets would have gone together far easier if the walls were
plumb to start with.. IIRC (it's been almost a decade), we had to build
some of them "on the wall", as opposed to just zipping in and shimming
pre-built cabinets -- and none of the holes were coming close to lining up.

k...@notreal.com

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Sep 30, 2021, 12:21:07 PMSep 30
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I'd give a 100yo house a better chance at being plumb and square.

DerbyDad03

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Sep 30, 2021, 1:45:44 PMSep 30
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How many 100 YO houses have you worked in?

Maybe when it was first built it was "built better". (I assume that is what you
are implying) However, 100 years later and a lot of that care has been overtaken
by nature.

I've worked in many older homes with full sized hardwood timbers and amazing
craftsmanship. Still, the ravages of nature and the laws of gravity have had a lot
of time to do their thing.

Leon

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Sep 30, 2021, 2:36:57 PMSep 30
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I do not in particular care for Ikea and mostly just because of the
store lay out. I don't go to a store for the entertainment value. I
want to get in and get out.

With that behind me, I have never ever installed kitchen cabinets where
everything worked like the drawings. Prefab cabinets should be built
prior to install. And then units are normally attached to each other
prior to attaching to the walls. You do not want to try to attach each
individual cabinet to the final spot and then add another cabinet and so on.



>
> The IKEA cabinets would have gone together far easier if the walls were
> plumb to start with.. IIRC (it's been almost a decade), we had to build
> some of them "on the wall", as opposed to just zipping in and shimming
> pre-built cabinets -- and none of the holes were coming close to lining up.

And again, the wall being out of plumb should have had no bearing on
ease of assembly.

k...@notreal.com

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Oct 1, 2021, 7:47:01 PMOct 1
to
On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 10:45:41 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
Perhaps not but I've seen runout of a wall close to a foot. Tile or
wood looks like crap. Nothing can be done either. They don't make
triangular tile.

Michael Trew

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Oct 1, 2021, 9:00:10 PMOct 1
to
Yep, everything settles over time.
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