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Best primer to avoid raising the grain...
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blueman
Dec 18, 2011, 11:06:02 AM12/18/11
to
I am going to be painting a cabinet I bought with Benjamin Moore
interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
plywood and Poplar.
I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.
1. Zinnser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 Water-base Primer
(advantage is easy-clean up but worried about water-based)
2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
(will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
seems more targeted at stain-killing)
3. Standard latex-based primer (e.g., Benjamin Moore)
4. Shellac as a sealcoat +/- followed by primer (is primer necessary if
you have a shellac sealcoat?)
5. Oil-based primer? (Do they still exist? I have seen it for exterior
where it is recommended for Cedar but not for interior recently)
6. Suck it up and sand after priming? It's good for you...
7. Other suggestion?
interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
plywood and Poplar.
I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.
1. Zinnser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 Water-base Primer
(advantage is easy-clean up but worried about water-based)
2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
(will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
seems more targeted at stain-killing)
3. Standard latex-based primer (e.g., Benjamin Moore)
4. Shellac as a sealcoat +/- followed by primer (is primer necessary if
you have a shellac sealcoat?)
5. Oil-based primer? (Do they still exist? I have seen it for exterior
where it is recommended for Cedar but not for interior recently)
6. Suck it up and sand after priming? It's good for you...
7. Other suggestion?
Swingman
Dec 18, 2011, 11:12:49 AM12/18/11
to
On 12/18/2011 10:06 AM, blueman wrote:
> I am going to be painting a cabinet I bought with Benjamin Moore
> interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
> plywood and Poplar.
>
> I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
> primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
> priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.
> I am going to be painting a cabinet I bought with Benjamin Moore
> interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
> plywood and Poplar.
>
> I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
> primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
> priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.
> 4. Shellac as a sealcoat +/- followed by primer (is primer necessary if
> you have a shellac sealcoat?)
<y preference ... primer not necessary.
> you have a shellac sealcoat?)
> 7. Other suggestion?
Followed by a light sanding ... if you're going to the trouble, do it right.
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
Ed Pawlowski
Dec 18, 2011, 11:51:37 AM12/18/11
to
On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:06:02 -0500, blueman <NOS...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
>primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
>priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.
Anything with water is likely to raise the grain.
>
>I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
>primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
>priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.
No matter what I use, I give a light sanding after the first coat
anyway. IMO, you are more likely to get a better finish.
Larry Blanchard
Dec 18, 2011, 1:15:25 PM12/18/11
to
On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 10:12:49 -0600, Swingman wrote:
>> 4. Shellac as a sealcoat +/- followed by primer (is primer necessary if
>> you have a shellac sealcoat?)
>
> <y preference ... primer not necessary.
Same here. Zinsser SealCoat or dewaxed from flakes.
>> 4. Shellac as a sealcoat +/- followed by primer (is primer necessary if
>> you have a shellac sealcoat?)
>
> <y preference ... primer not necessary.
But be *very* *sure* it's dewaxed!
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
Leon
Dec 18, 2011, 1:42:41 PM12/18/11
to
On 12/18/2011 10:06 AM, blueman wrote:
> I am going to be painting a cabinet I bought with Benjamin Moore
> interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
> plywood and Poplar.
>
> I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
> primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
> priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.
>
>
> 1. Zinnser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 Water-base Primer
> (advantage is easy-clean up but worried about water-based)
I have done a lot of oil based and water based painting. Oil based
> interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
> plywood and Poplar.
>
> I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
> primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
> priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.
>
>
> 1. Zinnser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 Water-base Primer
> (advantage is easy-clean up but worried about water-based)
painting clean up is MUCH easier than water based clean up. Mineral
spirits cleans instantly, I wish I could say that for soap and water.
> 2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
> (will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
> seems more targeted at stain-killing)
>
> 3. Standard latex-based primer (e.g., Benjamin Moore)
>
> 4. Shellac as a sealcoat +/- followed by primer (is primer necessary if
> you have a shellac sealcoat?)
>
> 5. Oil-based primer? (Do they still exist? I have seen it for exterior
> where it is recommended for Cedar but not for interior recently)
>
> 6. Suck it up and sand after priming? It's good for you...
rid of the raised grain is very light and quick.
ALSO if you use a water based latex paint for a book case, buy the
absolute best quality you can get. Do not assume that a particular
brand will offer the best in all of its products. Typically average
water based paints tale a long tome to cure and will be sticky/stick to
anything that you might set on it. Oil alkyd based paints cure much
harder and quickly. I have a new home painted with water based Sherwin
William paint on the trim. 1 year later the surface is harder but
things still stick to it.
>
> 7. Other suggestion?
>
Baron
Dec 18, 2011, 2:10:34 PM12/18/11
to
"blueman" <NOS...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:m2vcpd5...@consult.pretender...
BIN is simply white pigmented shellac so you can use BIN or unpigmented
shellac as a sealer / primer. I prefer BIN since it provides me with a
white "canvas". Just make sure that if you use shellac, it is dewaxed.
Sealcoat is already dewaxed.
Any solvent will raise the grain but some do it to a much lesser extent.
In general, water raises it the most followed by alcohols followed by
hydrocarbons which raise it the least.
I appreciate that you do not want to sand before applying top coats but
you will always get a better finished product if you do so. Perhaps only
sand the most visible parts of the cabinet.
Good Luck
news:m2vcpd5...@consult.pretender...
shellac as a sealer / primer. I prefer BIN since it provides me with a
white "canvas". Just make sure that if you use shellac, it is dewaxed.
Sealcoat is already dewaxed.
Any solvent will raise the grain but some do it to a much lesser extent.
In general, water raises it the most followed by alcohols followed by
hydrocarbons which raise it the least.
I appreciate that you do not want to sand before applying top coats but
you will always get a better finished product if you do so. Perhaps only
sand the most visible parts of the cabinet.
Good Luck
nailsh...@aol.com
Dec 18, 2011, 3:12:06 PM12/18/11
to
On Dec 18, 10:06 am, blueman <NOS...@nospam.com> wrote:
> 2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
> (will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
> seems more targeted at stain-killing)
Once I discovered how easy this stuff is to use, i have never looked
> 2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
> (will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
> seems more targeted at stain-killing)
back. I spray it, and unless I get a nib or two, I don't sand.
However, if it is hand applied, I always sand just a bit to get the
last of the brush strokes out.
BIN is simply dewaxed, shellac with zinc oxide ( I believe ) suspended
in it. It provides good stain killing properties, but the bonus is
that the resulting surface is more grippy than plain shellac.
> 6. Suck it up and sand after priming? It's good for you...
Robert
Pat
Dec 18, 2011, 8:14:05 PM12/18/11
to
I would not use a latex paint on cupboards. It stays tender forever.
Leon
Dec 19, 2011, 7:28:13 AM12/19/11
to
On 12/18/2011 7:14 PM, Pat wrote:
> I would not use a latex paint on cupboards. It stays tender forever.
That would coincide with the quality of latex paint you use. Better
> I would not use a latex paint on cupboards. It stays tender forever.
latex paints cure much harder more quickly.
Dave
Dec 19, 2011, 9:11:12 AM12/19/11
to
On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 06:28:13 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
one determine which latex paints are of higher quality? I haven't seen
too many reviews of latex paint.
>That would coincide with the quality of latex paint you use. Better
>latex paints cure much harder more quickly.
I've recently come to that conclusion too. Only one question. How does
>latex paints cure much harder more quickly.
one determine which latex paints are of higher quality? I haven't seen
too many reviews of latex paint.
Steve Barker
Dec 19, 2011, 1:17:23 PM12/19/11
to
less than 50 DIFFERENT answers. I've seen some downright shitty paint
taunted as the greatest, and i've seen some of the best paints
downgraded as shit. So, which pickup truck is the best make?
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
blueman
Dec 19, 2011, 1:42:08 PM12/19/11
to
"nailsh...@aol.com" <nailsh...@aol.com> writes:
> On Dec 18, 10:06 am, blueman <NOS...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> 2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
>> (will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
>> seems more targeted at stain-killing)
>
> Once I discovered how easy this stuff is to use, i have never looked
> back. I spray it, and unless I get a nib or two, I don't sand.
> However, if it is hand applied, I always sand just a bit to get the
> last of the brush strokes out.
What size needle orifice do you use?
> On Dec 18, 10:06 am, blueman <NOS...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> 2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
>> (will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
>> seems more targeted at stain-killing)
>
> Once I discovered how easy this stuff is to use, i have never looked
> back. I spray it, and unless I get a nib or two, I don't sand.
> However, if it is hand applied, I always sand just a bit to get the
> last of the brush strokes out.
Do you dilute it all or spray as-is?
(I know it differs by gun/system but just wanted to get a ballpark
estimate). I use a relatively low end compressor HVLP gun...
How is the cleanup? (my concern is that it dries so fast that it might
gum up the works) Do you use alcahol or ammonia as solvent?
Any other tips for spraying BIN?
Thanks!
Pat Barber
Dec 19, 2011, 4:34:06 PM12/19/11
to
Use what Robert tells you(NailShooter41).
On 12/18/2011 8:06 AM, blueman wrote:
> I am going to be painting a cabinet I bought with Benjamin Moore
> interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
> plywood and Poplar.
On 12/18/2011 8:06 AM, blueman wrote:
> I am going to be painting a cabinet I bought with Benjamin Moore
> interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
> plywood and Poplar.
Leon
Dec 19, 2011, 9:00:25 PM12/19/11
to
them you want the best fastest curing acrylic latex they have. Thee
them what you expect and see if they can deliver. Sample ahead of time.
Markem
Dec 19, 2011, 10:57:34 PM12/19/11
to
On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 13:34:06 -0800, Pat Barber <mboce...@att.net>
wrote:
Believe his Sherwin Williams dealer is one of his primary resources
for info on paint. I have found mine to be knowledgable and if he does
not know he will find out. YMMV
Mark
wrote:
Believe his Sherwin Williams dealer is one of his primary resources
for info on paint. I have found mine to be knowledgable and if he does
not know he will find out. YMMV
Mark
blueman
Dec 19, 2011, 11:50:21 PM12/19/11
to
"nailsh...@aol.com" <nailsh...@aol.com> writes:
> On Dec 18, 10:06 am, blueman <NOS...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> 2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
>> (will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
>> seems more targeted at stain-killing)
>
> Once I discovered how easy this stuff is to use, i have never looked
> back. I spray it, and unless I get a nib or two, I don't sand.
> However, if it is hand applied, I always sand just a bit to get the
> last of the brush strokes out.
I was about to spray but then woried that with an alcahol-base it could
> On Dec 18, 10:06 am, blueman <NOS...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> 2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
>> (will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
>> seems more targeted at stain-killing)
>
> Once I discovered how easy this stuff is to use, i have never looked
> back. I spray it, and unless I get a nib or two, I don't sand.
> However, if it is hand applied, I always sand just a bit to get the
> last of the brush strokes out.
be an explosion hazard if used in my basement (with water heater &
gas-furnaces) since I don't have an explosion-proof enclosure. Am I
being too cautious???
That being said, I ended up brushing it on and found it frustratingly
hard to apply. It dried so quickly that I found it very difficult to
keep a wet edge. To even approximate a wet edge and to get good coverage
without patches of wood bleeding through, I found I needed to apply
quite a generous coat. Additionally, paint would continually dry on my
brush leaving 'muck' that would get stuck in the paint. I was applying
the pain in a cool (60 degrees) basement.
Is that normal or am I doing something wrong?
Father Haskell
Dec 20, 2011, 12:44:01 AM12/20/11
to
out looking as latex.
Father Haskell
Dec 20, 2011, 1:01:46 AM12/20/11
to
On Dec 18, 1:42 pm, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> On 12/18/2011 10:06 AM, blueman wrote:
>
> > I am going to be painting a cabinet I bought with Benjamin Moore
> > interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
> > plywood and Poplar.
>
> > I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
> > primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
> > priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.
>
> > 1. Zinnser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 Water-base Primer
> > (advantage is easy-clean up but worried about water-based)
>
> I have done a lot of oil based and water based painting. Oil based
> painting clean up is MUCH easier than water based clean up. Mineral
> spirits cleans instantly, I wish I could say that for soap and water.
Beauty of straight shellac as a primer is you don't
> On 12/18/2011 10:06 AM, blueman wrote:
>
> > I am going to be painting a cabinet I bought with Benjamin Moore
> > interior semi-gloss latex paint. The cabinet is made of Baltic Birch
> > plywood and Poplar.
>
> > I want to avoid raising the grain on the cabinet when I apply
> > primer and having to sand everything again. Which of the following
> > priming techniquest are least likely to raise grain.
>
> > 1. Zinnser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 Water-base Primer
> > (advantage is easy-clean up but worried about water-based)
>
> I have done a lot of oil based and water based painting. Oil based
> painting clean up is MUCH easier than water based clean up. Mineral
> spirits cleans instantly, I wish I could say that for soap and water.
have to clean the brush. Wrap it in plastic, and next
time you need it, squirt a little alcohol into the wrapping.
It'll be as supple as new in a couple of hours.
> > 2. Zinnser BIN Shellac-Base Primer
> > (will shellac-base be less likely to raise grain? But it's marketing
> > seems more targeted at stain-killing)
>
> > 3. Standard latex-based primer (e.g., Benjamin Moore)
>
> > 4. Shellac as a sealcoat +/- followed by primer (is primer necessary if
> > you have a shellac sealcoat?)
>
> > 5. Oil-based primer? (Do they still exist? I have seen it for exterior
> > where it is recommended for Cedar but not for interior recently)
>
> > 6. Suck it up and sand after priming? It's good for you...
>
> Not a bad idea if you do go with water based. That sanding step to get
> rid of the raised grain is very light and quick.
Transfast dye on ash and had it come out as smooth and level
as glass (shellac, *after* filling the grain with epoxy, of course).
Raise the grain with a damp cloth and sand it back a couple
of times. It won't raise a third time.
> ALSO if you use a water based latex paint for a book case, buy the
> absolute best quality you can get. Do not assume that a particular
> brand will offer the best in all of its products. Typically average
> water based paints tale a long tome to cure and will be sticky/stick to
> anything that you might set on it. Oil alkyd based paints cure much
> harder and quickly. I have a new home painted with water based Sherwin
> William paint on the trim. 1 year later the surface is harder but
> things still stick to it.
Leon
Dec 20, 2011, 7:36:13 AM12/20/11
to
On 12/20/2011 12:01 AM, Father Haskell wrote:
> On Dec 18, 1:42 pm, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> Grain raising is an overstated problem. I've used water-thinned
> Transfast dye on ash and had it come out as smooth and level
> as glass (shellac, *after* filling the grain with epoxy, of course).
> Raise the grain with a damp cloth and sand it back a couple
> of times. It won't raise a third time.
If you go to the trouble to fill the grain with epoxy, sand, wet, sand,
> On Dec 18, 1:42 pm, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> Grain raising is an overstated problem. I've used water-thinned
> Transfast dye on ash and had it come out as smooth and level
> as glass (shellac, *after* filling the grain with epoxy, of course).
> Raise the grain with a damp cloth and sand it back a couple
> of times. It won't raise a third time.
wet, sand and then shellac I would not IMHO say that dealing with raised
grain is an overstated issue.
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