Beginners Poly Application/Tack Cloth question

[Bill]

I just tried poly (Minwax wipe-on) for the first time. I used the tack
cloth to remove dust before applying it (I never used a tack rag before
either).

The tack rag left my fingers sticky enough that I was concerned that
it's adhesive may have stuck to the wood and interfered with my finish
(as I had to use soap to get it off my hands), but the finish seemed to
go on nice enough

Question: Can I use the tack rag after sanding between coats without
worry of it interferring with my finish?


BTW, Mike Marlow: I used a wire as you suggested (and an eye-screw)
slung around the end of a 2by4 to keep my project off the ground.

For anyone following my "big project", I've got the new switchbox, EMT,
AlFLEX, and the drywall replaced. Now I just need to "pretty up" my new
drywall on 3 walls. Yesterday I swept-up everything, first time in a
long time--it really did made me feel better. Then I bought a roll of
28" wide "contractors paper" to put along the walls (65'). I figured I
could mark it off in 20 squares or so (yes, like in Monopoly), number
them, and I expect that it would be helpful for QA. Without this, or
some other system, I would find the compexity of keeping track of every
blemish a bit overwhelming. I myself don't find the process as uniform
as what they show in the books! ; ) I guess that comes with time and
practice!
I'm the kind of person who is not afraid to rip out and re-tape a joint,
and when you're like that, the "uniformity in the process" breaks down! ; )

Yesterday, my first day with a drywall knife in my hands for almost a
year, I quickly re-learned what I regard as the KEY IDEA concerning the
application of drywall mud. Know that "good enough" is good enough,
especially in the early stages! : ) I remembered the key idea, but I
just had to challenge it, which of course just reinforced why it's the
key idea! : )

Have fun!
Bill

[Bill]

Bill wrote:
>
> I just tried poly (Minwax wipe-on) for the first time. I used the tack
> cloth to remove dust before applying it (I never used a tack rag before
> either).
>
> The tack rag left my fingers sticky enough that I was concerned that
> it's adhesive may have stuck to the wood and interfered with my finish
> (as I had to use soap to get it off my hands), but the finish seemed to
> go on nice enough
>
> Question: Can I use the tack rag after sanding between coats without
> worry of it interferring with my finish?

I just put on the 2nd coat. Comment: The finish sure seems thin. It may
take alot of coats to get the protective finish I'm looking for!

The wood seems to absorb the finish very, very fast. So fast that I'm
not the least bit worried about dust...lol. The last related finish I
used was varnish and, IIRC, it seemed to go on thicker--and stay wet
longer.

Bill

[CW]

"Bill" wrote in message news:jv58p...@news3.newsguy.com...

====================================================================================
Wipe on poly is very thin so it goes on easy but it takes many more coats.

Bill

[dadiOH]

Bill wrote:
> I just tried poly (Minwax wipe-on) for the first time. I used the
> tack cloth to remove dust before applying it (I never used a tack rag
> before either).
>
> The tack rag left my fingers sticky enough that I was concerned that
> it's adhesive may have stuck to the wood and interfered with my finish
> (as I had to use soap to get it off my hands), but the finish seemed
> to go on nice enough
>
> Question: Can I use the tack rag after sanding between coats without
> worry of it interferring with my finish?

Yes.

Tack rags have some varnish in them, that's why they are sticky. IMO,
microfiber cloth does as least as good a job and they are washable.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[Leon]

On 7/29/2012 7:26 PM, Bill wrote:
>
> I just tried poly (Minwax wipe-on) for the first time. I used the tack
> cloth to remove dust before applying it (I never used a tack rag before
> either).
>
> The tack rag left my fingers sticky enough that I was concerned that
> it's adhesive may have stuck to the wood and interfered with my finish
> (as I had to use soap to get it off my hands), but the finish seemed to
> go on nice enough
>
> Question: Can I use the tack rag after sanding between coats without
> worry of it interferring with my finish?
>

Yes. Tach rags are typically made/saturated with the same finish
material you are putting on the piece, Varnish.

[Leon]

On 7/30/2012 1:14 AM, Bill wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>>
>> I just tried poly (Minwax wipe-on) for the first time. I used the tack
>> cloth to remove dust before applying it (I never used a tack rag before
>> either).
>>
>> The tack rag left my fingers sticky enough that I was concerned that
>> it's adhesive may have stuck to the wood and interfered with my finish
>> (as I had to use soap to get it off my hands), but the finish seemed to
>> go on nice enough
>>
>> Question: Can I use the tack rag after sanding between coats without
>> worry of it interferring with my finish?
>
>
> I just put on the 2nd coat. Comment: The finish sure seems thin. It may
> take alot of coats to get the protective finish I'm looking for!

Yeah. If you want this process to go faster, I use General Finishes
ArmrSeal when I need a thick finish. I apply the first sealer coat with
a rag and the next/last coat with a Wooster foam brush.

>
> The wood seems to absorb the finish very, very fast. So fast that I'm
> not the least bit worried about dust...lol. The last related finish I
> used was varnish and, IIRC, it seemed to go on thicker--and stay wet
> longer.
>
> Bill
>

FWIW Varnish is a generic term. By definition, almost any final
protective coat is a type of varnish.

[Mike Marlow]

Bill wrote:
> I just tried poly (Minwax wipe-on) for the first time. I used the
> tack cloth to remove dust before applying it (I never used a tack rag
> before either).
>
> The tack rag left my fingers sticky enough that I was concerned that
> it's adhesive may have stuck to the wood and interfered with my finish
> (as I had to use soap to get it off my hands), but the finish seemed
> to go on nice enough
>
> Question: Can I use the tack rag after sanding between coats without
> worry of it interferring with my finish?
>

Sure you can Bill. The big couple of things to remember when using tack
cloths is to keep folding them on themselves as you use them (to keep a
clean side out), and to use them very lightly. Sometimes you'll see people
using them like a cleaning rag and putting too much pressure down. Just a
very light swipe to pick up the dust. Too much pressure and you can leave
the residue from the tack cloth behind and that can screw up a finish.


--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Mike Marlow]

Leon wrote:

>
> Yes. Tach rags are typically made/saturated with the same finish
> material you are putting on the piece, Varnish.

No - Tach rags are just soft Tee shirt material typically stored in the
trunk, and used to buff the fingerprints off of a mounted Tachometer in
order to impress the girls with the shiney stuff in your car. Best for them
not to be saturated with anything. Well, unless the shiney Tach works its
magic and you need to use the Tach rag to clean up the back seat later...

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Bill]

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> I just tried poly (Minwax wipe-on) for the first time. I used the
>> tack cloth to remove dust before applying it (I never used a tack rag
>> before either).

Thanks everyone for all of the information & tips/suggestions!

Bill

[Larry Jaques]

On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 02:14:51 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:

>Bill wrote:
>>
>> I just tried poly (Minwax wipe-on) for the first time. I used the tack
>> cloth to remove dust before applying it (I never used a tack rag before
>> either).
>>
>> The tack rag left my fingers sticky enough that I was concerned that
>> it's adhesive may have stuck to the wood and interfered with my finish
>> (as I had to use soap to get it off my hands), but the finish seemed to
>> go on nice enough
>>
>> Question: Can I use the tack rag after sanding between coats without
>> worry of it interferring with my finish?

There is no need. Denibbing (sanding between coats) leaves very
little dust. I use my shop brush and/or a dry rag to dust in between.

>I just put on the 2nd coat. Comment: The finish sure seems thin. It may
>take alot of coats to get the protective finish I'm looking for!

That's the nature of wipe-on, just like Waterlox, and Watco, as well
as hand-rubbed spray lacquer. They go on a couple thou thick each
coat, but they leave a finish the hand likes to touch, which makes the
extra work very well worth it.

>The wood seems to absorb the finish very, very fast. So fast that I'm
>not the least bit worried about dust...lol. The last related finish I
>used was varnish and, IIRC, it seemed to go on thicker--and stay wet
>longer.

Brush-on finishes are like that. Wipe-ons look wetter later, after
you get a few coats on. It builds up from a sealer coat into your
"protective finish" after the third coat, usually. Dunno 'bout poly. I
refuse to use it again.

--
When we are planning for posterity, we ought
to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
-- Thomas Paine

(comparing Paine to the current CONgress <deep sigh>)

[Bill]

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 02:14:51 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> Bill wrote:
>>>
>>> I just tried poly (Minwax wipe-on) for the first time. I used the tack
>>> cloth to remove dust before applying it (I never used a tack rag before
>>> either).
>>>
>>> The tack rag left my fingers sticky enough that I was concerned that
>>> it's adhesive may have stuck to the wood and interfered with my finish
>>> (as I had to use soap to get it off my hands), but the finish seemed to
>>> go on nice enough
>>>
>>> Question: Can I use the tack rag after sanding between coats without
>>> worry of it interferring with my finish?
>
> There is no need. Denibbing (sanding between coats) leaves very
> little dust. I use my shop brush and/or a dry rag to dust in between.

Larry,

I've applied 2 coats and am waiting the 24 hours, as suggested just
about everywhere one might look, before proceeding.

I looked up "denibbing", and I don't think I have any nibs (LOL)! As I
mentioned earlier, the finish was practically dry as soon as I was done
applying it. This was no-doubt facilitated by the steady 90+ degree
temperature in the finishing room. This may change after I build up an
"undercoat" and less absorbtion occurs.

Is it still a good idea to give it a quick once over with 320 grit even
if it still feels smooth to the touch? I assume so just in case the
grain may have swollen and I can't tell...no nibs though! FWIW, the
wood is hard maple.

Cheers,
Bill

[Leon]

Don't worry about the "nibs" until you are finished. Then rub it all
down with a paper sack or printer paper.

[Mike Marlow]

Bill wrote:

>
> I looked up "denibbing", and I don't think I have any nibs (LOL)! As I
> mentioned earlier, the finish was practically dry as soon as I was
> done applying it.

It is most unlikely that you do not have dust nibs of some sort in your
finish - but if you don't feel anything that is upsetting to you, than you
should go with what you feel. You are the judge of your finish - not anyone
here.

> This was no-doubt facilitated by the steady 90+
> degree temperature in the finishing room. This may change after I
> build up an "undercoat" and less absorbtion occurs.

An "undercoat" is already done Bill. Think about the word - UNDERcoat...
Everything else you put on is part of a top coat.

>
> Is it still a good idea to give it a quick once over with 320 grit
> even if it still feels smooth to the touch?

320 is way too coarse for anything you need at this point. Others may
disagree - I will simply show you mirror finish paint jobs. You don't need
any more than 500 or 600 grit to knock down any dust nibs or the likes
between coats.



--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Bill]

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:

>> Is it still a good idea to give it a quick once over with 320 grit
>> even if it still feels smooth to the touch?
>
> 320 is way too coarse for anything you need at this point. Others may
> disagree - I will simply show you mirror finish paint jobs. You don't need
> any more than 500 or 600 grit to knock down any dust nibs or the likes
> between coats.

Thanks Mike. I think 320 is more coarse than I need too (but it is
frequently recommended after 2 coats). I'll try 600, for the
experience, since I have some of that handy as well.

Bill

[Larry Jaques]

On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:08:14 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 02:14:51 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I just tried poly (Minwax wipe-on) for the first time. I used the tack
>>>> cloth to remove dust before applying it (I never used a tack rag before
>>>> either).
>>>>
>>>> The tack rag left my fingers sticky enough that I was concerned that
>>>> it's adhesive may have stuck to the wood and interfered with my finish
>>>> (as I had to use soap to get it off my hands), but the finish seemed to
>>>> go on nice enough
>>>>
>>>> Question: Can I use the tack rag after sanding between coats without
>>>> worry of it interferring with my finish?
>>
>> There is no need. Denibbing (sanding between coats) leaves very
>> little dust. I use my shop brush and/or a dry rag to dust in between.
>
>Larry,
>
>I've applied 2 coats and am waiting the 24 hours, as suggested just
>about everywhere one might look, before proceeding.
>
>I looked up "denibbing", and I don't think I have any nibs (LOL)! As I

I hear they tend to hibernate readily back east. (That's anywhere
east of Idaho.)

>mentioned earlier, the finish was practically dry as soon as I was done
>applying it. This was no-doubt facilitated by the steady 90+ degree
>temperature in the finishing room. This may change after I build up an
>"undercoat" and less absorbtion occurs.

Wait until it's dry and rub your hand over the finish. Feel any
imperfections? Those are dust, nibs, paintbrush fibers, and raised
wood fibers. A quick swipe with a piece of 400 grit sandpaper, a
piece of brown paper bag, or a light pass with a cabinet scraper will
take them down. Wipe off with a lint-free rag and recoat. I've been
known to blow them off, too, but I don't go for super-glossy finishes
and overlook tiny specks of very, very fine dust.

>Is it still a good idea to give it a quick once over with 320 grit even
>if it still feels smooth to the touch? I assume so just in case the
>grain may have swollen and I can't tell...no nibs though! FWIW, the
>wood is hard maple.

Yeah, 320 or finer. And I mean QUICK. Do not hover anywhere, just
swipe it across all finished areas (-with- the grain, please) and dust
off.

[Larry Jaques]

On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:18:22 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>Don't worry about the "nibs" until you are finished. Then rub it all
>down with a paper sack or printer paper.

I prefer to catch anything before it's embedded in finish, thanks.
It's very quick and simple to do, so I do it. YMMV.

[Bill]

Okay, thank you for all of those suggestions. Will Do!

It's good that you mention them because I occasionally hover! : )

Bill

[Mike Marlow]

Larry Jaques wrote:

>
> I hear they tend to hibernate readily back east. (That's anywhere
> east of Idaho.)
>

Larry Jaques - that has to be one of the best lines I've read from you in a
long time! Tip of the hat to you!



--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Mike Marlow]

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:18:22 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> Don't worry about the "nibs" until you are finished. Then rub it all
>> down with a paper sack or printer paper.
>
> I prefer to catch anything before it's embedded in finish, thanks.
> It's very quick and simple to do, so I do it. YMMV.

I do too, but that's as much because I use brush on poly and I have to scuff
the previous coat before the subsequent coats. So - I knock it down smooth
while I'm at it. Does not take much time and I don't have to fight with
dust nibs in the first coat that get built up with finish on the subsequent
coats.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Bill]

Do you think an application of Johnson's paste wax improve the
durability of the (satin) finish? Since it's going to be my custom
honing strop, I would like to be able to wipe the "black muck" off of
it. I'll take a picture of it before I start using it, just in case.
; )

Bill

[Mike Marlow]

Bill wrote:

>
>
> Do you think an application of Johnson's paste wax improve the
> durability of the (satin) finish? Since it's going to be my custom
> honing strop, I would like to be able to wipe the "black muck" off of
> it. I'll take a picture of it before I start using it, just in case.
> ; )
>

That won't help durability at all Bill. Paste wax is a soft finish that can
look nice and protect against some minor sorts of things, but it's not a
durable finish. The poly you are applying is much stronger (harder) than
paste wax.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Bill]

I see what you mean. Would a coat of paste wax over the poly make it
any easier to keep/wipe the muck off?

[Larry Jaques]

'Occasionally' my ass, Mr. A.R. You'll probably wax individual fibers
of wood, too. <titter>

[Mike Marlow]

It would make it easier to wipe off, as long as you maintain the wax finish.
If you finish off the poly with a 600 grit and a good rub out with rubbing
compound, then the wax won't add all that much - but it will probably add
some slip for you. Adding the wax can't hurt - it's a polish that can and
will wear off over time if you don't like it.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Leon]

Why do yo find it necessary to wipe down the nibs between coats??
Why don't you simply get them all after the final coat?

I neeeeeeeeeeeever treat between coats.

[Mike Marlow]

Leon wrote:

>
> Why do yo find it necessary to wipe down the nibs between coats??
> Why don't you simply get them all after the final coat?
>

I knock it down between coats becuase I have to create a scuff. As long as
I'm doing that, I just knock it down and then reapply.
As for Larry's reasons - who knows - he just talks out his ass.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Larry Jaques]

WHAT muck? What are you doing to your poor strop, clazy amellican?

[Larry Jaques]

On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 22:12:49 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

Again, I don't want to embed them in finish. It adds, what, mebbe 5-7
minutes (max) to a project?

>I neeeeeeeeeeeever treat between coats.

True, but you slather stain and poly all over everything, too.
Ewwwwwwwwwwww!

[Dave]

On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 23:24:34 -0700, Larry Jaques

>>I see what you mean. Would a coat of paste wax over the poly make it
>>any easier to keep/wipe the muck off?
>
>WHAT muck? What are you doing to your poor strop, clazy amellican?

He's probably talking about the swarf from sharpening. Don't know
about Bill, but I frequently wipe the swarf off the blades I'm
sharpening. By the time the strop comes along, there isn't any "black
muck" around.

[Leon]

On 7/30/2012 7:35 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:18:22 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> Don't worry about the "nibs" until you are finished. Then rub it all
>> down with a paper sack or printer paper.
>
> I prefer to catch anything before it's embedded in finish, thanks.
> It's very quick and simple to do, so I do it. YMMV.

Well that is fine but if you are knocking down nibs with paper between
coats you are not preventing embedding. IMHO you are simply adding an
unnecessary step between coats. Now if the product instructions call
for scuffing that is another matter.

[Leon]

NO!, no more so than laying paper on top of the finish. The wax will
not protect any more than the product you using for the finish.

Wax on bare wood will improve water resistance for a bit.

I mainly use wax as a lubricant. I use it to make drawers, with out
mechanical slides, slide easier. And that tends to last a long time. I
also use it to lube screws.

[Mike Marlow]

Leon wrote:

>
> Well that is fine but if you are knocking down nibs with paper between
> coats you are not preventing embedding. IMHO you are simply adding an
> unnecessary step between coats. Now if the product instructions call
> for scuffing that is another matter.

Correct on all points.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Leon]

On 7/30/2012 10:16 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> Why do yo find it necessary to wipe down the nibs between coats??
>> Why don't you simply get them all after the final coat?
>>
>
> I knock it down between coats becuase I have to create a scuff. As long as
> I'm doing that, I just knock it down and then reapply.
> As for Larry's reasons - who knows - he just talks out his ass.
>

And your reason is valid.

For years I unnecessarily worried about those nibs between coats and
wasted plenty of time addressing them and then one day......

[Leon]

On 7/31/2012 1:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

>>
>> Why do yo find it necessary to wipe down the nibs between coats??
>> Why don't you simply get them all after the final coat?
>
> Again, I don't want to embed them in finish. It adds, what, mebbe 5-7
> minutes (max) to a project?
>
>
>> I neeeeeeeeeeeever treat between coats.
>
> True, but you slather stain and poly all over everything, too.
> Ewwwwwwwwwwww!
>

Mike said you talk out your ass. He said ass. ;~)

[Larry Jaques]

On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 06:43:31 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

If you wish to leave crap in your finish, fine. I wish to minimize it,
and that takes denibbing between coats. Just a difference of opinion.
As I said, YMMV.

[Larry Jaques]

On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 06:59:16 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

So go stain and poly him. That'll fix his ass. I said Ass! ;~)

[Larry Jaques]

On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 06:55:52 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 7/30/2012 10:16 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Why do yo find it necessary to wipe down the nibs between coats??
>>> Why don't you simply get them all after the final coat?
>>>
>>
>> I knock it down between coats becuase I have to create a scuff. As long as
>> I'm doing that, I just knock it down and then reapply.
>> As for Larry's reasons - who knows - he just talks out his ass.

Aw, Mikey, you're just mad because I replonked you for being such a
caustic character. Your statement above entirely reinforces my
actions, BTW.

>And your reason is valid.
>
>For years I unnecessarily worried about those nibs between coats and
>wasted plenty of time addressing them and then one day......

If you're wasting plenty of time, you're being too anal about it.
I figure that if I can feel it in the base coat, I'll be able to see
it in the finish, so I take it out. Quick and simple. If you don't,
don't. That's fine.

[Mike Marlow]

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 06:59:16 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/31/2012 1:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Why do yo find it necessary to wipe down the nibs between coats??
>>>> Why don't you simply get them all after the final coat?
>>>
>>> Again, I don't want to embed them in finish. It adds, what, mebbe
>>> 5-7 minutes (max) to a project?
>>>
>>>
>>>> I neeeeeeeeeeeever treat between coats.
>>>
>>> True, but you slather stain and poly all over everything, too.
>>> Ewwwwwwwwwwww!
>>>
>>
>> Mike said you talk out your ass. He said ass. ;~)
>
> So go stain and poly him. That'll fix his ass. I said Ass! ;~)

Man - tha't an awful lot of asses around here...

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Mike Marlow]

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 06:55:52 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/30/2012 10:16 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why do yo find it necessary to wipe down the nibs between coats??
>>>> Why don't you simply get them all after the final coat?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I knock it down between coats becuase I have to create a scuff. As
>>> long as I'm doing that, I just knock it down and then reapply.
>>> As for Larry's reasons - who knows - he just talks out his ass.
>
> Aw, Mikey, you're just mad because I replonked you for being such a
> caustic character. Your statement above entirely reinforces my
> actions, BTW.
>

Actually no Larry. I really do not care if you or CW plonk me. Your
opinions of yourselves are quite overrated when you believe that anyone
really cares about your plonking stuff. Do as you wish. I simply spoke in
reference to your posts here.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Leon]

Tha't is. you said Tha't. ;~) Welcome to my style of typing!

[Mike Marlow]

That's funny! See what happens when we don't proof read! And nobody has
ever accused me of that...

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Bill]

Using the green Chrome Oxide honing compound, black muck is created
when honing. I'm not sure whether genuine swarf is created or not. It
probably is, but I'm not familiar enough with the term.

[Bill]

Leon wrote:
> On 7/30/2012 8:19 PM, Bill wrote:

>> Do you think an application of Johnson's paste wax improve the
>> durability of the (satin) finish? Since it's going to be my custom
>> honing strop, I would like to be able to wipe the "black muck" off of
>> it.
>

> Wax on bare wood will improve water resistance for a bit.
>
> I mainly use wax as a lubricant. I use it to make drawers, with out
> mechanical slides, slide easier. And that tends to last a long time. I
> also use it to lube screws.

Thanks, I think I can put that information to use (I was thinking of
adding a drawer or two to my new woodbench). For now, I need to go play
with drywall compound--I seem to resist it, despite how much fun it is.
; )

[dadiOH]

The group does tend toward anal :)

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[Leon]

On 7/31/2012 10:41 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 7/31/2012 10:24 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Man - tha't an awful lot of asses around here...
>>>
>>
>>
>> Tha't is. you said Tha't. ;~) Welcome to my style of typing!
>
> That's funny! See what happens when we don't proof read! And nobody has
> ever accused me of that...
>

It does not matter if I proof read or not..... the spell checker still
spells it wrong. ;~)

[Larry Jaques]

I usually take a dozen swipes at most when honing, and I haven't seen
any black muck form on my strop yet, in several years. You only strop
sharpened (and then cleaned/wiped) blades, oui?

[Larry Jaques]

Got a wet shop vac and a P100 respirator? <sigh> Water really helps
trap the nasty, superfine dust.

[Bill]

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:05:54 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> Dave wrote:
>>> On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 23:24:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
>>>>> I see what you mean. Would a coat of paste wax over the poly make it
>>>>> any easier to keep/wipe the muck off?
>>>>
>>>> WHAT muck? What are you doing to your poor strop, clazy amellican?
>>>
>>> He's probably talking about the swarf from sharpening. Don't know
>>> about Bill, but I frequently wipe the swarf off the blades I'm
>>> sharpening. By the time the strop comes along, there isn't any "black
>>> muck" around.
>>>
>>
>> Using the green Chrome Oxide honing compound, black muck is created
>> when honing. I'm not sure whether genuine swarf is created or not. It
>> probably is, but I'm not familiar enough with the term.
>
> I usually take a dozen swipes at most when honing, and I haven't seen
> any black muck form on my strop yet, in several years. You only strop
> sharpened (and then cleaned/wiped) blades, oui?

The way I understand it, once woodcarving knives are sharpened, they
can go along time without being resharpening if they are stropped
regularly--say every 30 minutes. The same holds for woodcarving gouges.
I don't believe this holds for M&T gouges. Because of their "more
difficult life", I think they might more frequently need to visit a
stone (I'm not sure). Green (or other) honing compound is put on the
leather (thin leather is better than thick). The honing compound and the
swarf together create a chemical reaction which results in what I call
black muck. ; )

When asked why I didn't yet own a strop, I've said that I had to build a
workbench to make one on first. With that detail out of the way, my
custom strop is almost complete! It may seem a little silly to fuss
over the finish on such a tool, except I consider it good practice for
the furniture on the horizon, and I'll put a satin finish on it if I
want to. : ) I'm planning to make a small tool box from Yellow Poplar
to hold the strop along with my other woodcarving accessories. My SU
drawing of it includes a lift-out tray. The tool box should give me a
good change to practice cutting DT-joints. If you assemble the projects
I've mentioned in the right order, you may see my "graded exercises". I
also view my projects as a reflection of numerous conversations on the
Wreck and also my learning about the craft.

Cheers,
Bill

[Bill]

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:19:02 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 7/30/2012 8:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>>
>>>> Do you think an application of Johnson's paste wax improve the
>>>> durability of the (satin) finish? Since it's going to be my custom
>>>> honing strop, I would like to be able to wipe the "black muck" off of
>>>> it.
>>>
>>> Wax on bare wood will improve water resistance for a bit.
>>>
>>> I mainly use wax as a lubricant. I use it to make drawers, with out
>>> mechanical slides, slide easier. And that tends to last a long time. I
>>> also use it to lube screws.
>>
>> Thanks, I think I can put that information to use (I was thinking of
>> adding a drawer or two to my new woodbench). For now, I need to go play
>> with drywall compound--I seem to resist it, despite how much fun it is.
>> ; )
>
> Got a wet shop vac and a P100 respirator? <sigh> Water really helps
> trap the nasty, superfine dust.

I'm glad I sprung for the *vacuum* drywall sander! I've had better luck
with shop vac "bags", than water, though I tried water first.

Based on reading another post, I am going to upgrade my shop vac filter
to one of the better/best green ones (~$30, at Sears) for this task. I
wear an N95 rated dust mask for this and many other tasks.

After doing some other yardwork today, I decided to postpone my drywall
work until the conditions are more humane--perhaps after dark.

Here is a related question I had: Is the shop vac filter only there to
filter the air it outputs for the sake of the user, or does it protect
the unit (in any way)? For instance, if I'm vacuuming wet leaves (the
eave troughs), is there any benefit to using a filter?

Bill

[Leon]

Generally if the filter gets dirty quickly the filter is there to
protect the motor and then you, somewhat. Better vacs will draw the
debris directly into a filter bag and will have a secondary filter that
typically stays very very clean. These type typically do not loose
suction until the filter bag is 98 % full and ready to be tossed. The
secondary filter will still be quite clean.

[Leon]

On 7/31/2012 3:34 PM, Bill wrote:

[Larry Jaques]

On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 16:13:27 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:05:54 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Dave wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 23:24:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
>>>>>> I see what you mean. Would a coat of paste wax over the poly make it
>>>>>> any easier to keep/wipe the muck off?
>>>>>
>>>>> WHAT muck? What are you doing to your poor strop, clazy amellican?
>>>>
>>>> He's probably talking about the swarf from sharpening. Don't know
>>>> about Bill, but I frequently wipe the swarf off the blades I'm
>>>> sharpening. By the time the strop comes along, there isn't any "black
>>>> muck" around.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Using the green Chrome Oxide honing compound, black muck is created
>>> when honing. I'm not sure whether genuine swarf is created or not. It
>>> probably is, but I'm not familiar enough with the term.
>>
>> I usually take a dozen swipes at most when honing, and I haven't seen
>> any black muck form on my strop yet, in several years. You only strop
>> sharpened (and then cleaned/wiped) blades, oui?
>
>The way I understand it, once woodcarving knives are sharpened, they
>can go along time without being resharpening if they are stropped
>regularly--say every 30 minutes. The same holds for woodcarving gouges.
>I don't believe this holds for M&T gouges. Because of their "more
>difficult life", I think they might more frequently need to visit a
>stone (I'm not sure).

50/50.

>Green (or other) honing compound is put on the
>leather (thin leather is better than thick).

Right.

>The honing compound and the swarf together create a chemical reaction
>which results in what I call black muck. ; )

Pictures, please. The amount of metal coming off onto the thin coating
of green compound is micro-miniscule. I'd love to see what you're
referring to.

>When asked why I didn't yet own a strop, I've said that I had to build a
>workbench to make one on first. With that detail out of the way, my

<snort>

>custom strop is almost complete! It may seem a little silly to fuss
>over the finish on such a tool, except I consider it good practice for
>the furniture on the horizon, and I'll put a satin finish on it if I
>want to. : ) I'm planning to make a small tool box from Yellow Poplar
>to hold the strop along with my other woodcarving accessories. My SU
>drawing of it includes a lift-out tray. The tool box should give me a
>good change to practice cutting DT-joints.

Dovies are fun, but -only- if you cut them by hand. (Frank Klausz
knows best, y'know.)

Make sure you make that box a big one. You'll be collecting many more
carving tools once you feel you have the sharpening thing down pat, I
bet.

>If you assemble the projects
>I've mentioned in the right order, you may see my "graded exercises". I
>also view my projects as a reflection of numerous conversations on the
>Wreck and also my learning about the craft.

Yeah, I look back on my 8th grade crescent moon lamp project in
woodshop and cringe. <heh heh heh>

--
Another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult,
whereas I am merely in disguise.
-- Margaret Atwood

[Bill]

Mine is a Craftsman.
http://c.shld.net/assets/own/00917066e.pdf

I just looked at the manual again, and it suggested removing the filter
when vacuuming large amounts of water (I never have). That doesn't
completely answer the question, but I think it is consistent with what
you wrote. I'll keep using the filters!

I'm sure it's not as quiet as a Festool, but if it broke I would replace
it with the same model. Maybe I'll try hooking it to a TS when I get
one! : )

Bill

[Larry Jaques]

On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 16:34:08 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:19:02 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> On 7/30/2012 8:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Do you think an application of Johnson's paste wax improve the
>>>>> durability of the (satin) finish? Since it's going to be my custom
>>>>> honing strop, I would like to be able to wipe the "black muck" off of
>>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> Wax on bare wood will improve water resistance for a bit.
>>>>
>>>> I mainly use wax as a lubricant. I use it to make drawers, with out
>>>> mechanical slides, slide easier. And that tends to last a long time. I
>>>> also use it to lube screws.
>>>
>>> Thanks, I think I can put that information to use (I was thinking of
>>> adding a drawer or two to my new woodbench). For now, I need to go play
>>> with drywall compound--I seem to resist it, despite how much fun it is.
>>> ; )
>>
>> Got a wet shop vac and a P100 respirator? <sigh> Water really helps
>> trap the nasty, superfine dust.
>
>I'm glad I sprung for the *vacuum* drywall sander! I've had better luck
>with shop vac "bags", than water, though I tried water first.

VDS, good show!

>Based on reading another post, I am going to upgrade my shop vac filter
>to one of the better/best green ones (~$30, at Sears) for this task. I
>wear an N95 rated dust mask for this and many other tasks.

I bought a Cleanstream from an eBay vendor who had it stored in a
ghastly, stinking storeroom. It reeks every time I use it, but it
filters well.

I decided that since I was going to protect my lungs, I'd go the extra
dollar for the 100% filters. I reuse the hell out of 'em, anyway, so
I get my money's worth. My lungs thank me.

>After doing some other yardwork today, I decided to postpone my drywall
>work until the conditions are more humane--perhaps after dark.

Grok that.

>Here is a related question I had: Is the shop vac filter only there to
>filter the air it outputs for the sake of the user, or does it protect
>the unit (in any way)? For instance, if I'm vacuuming wet leaves (the
>eave troughs), is there any benefit to using a filter?

Yes, usually, the filter protects the motor a bit, too. Flow is often
through the hose, into the cannister, then out through the motor,
cooling it as it goes. Follow the mfgr's suggestions, though. Some
will eat (cheaper) filters if they get wet.

Well, I got my CNC router up and running today. After tracking down
some grounding problems, I got it up. Motion in all three axes. I
had to figure out how to reverse the A axis motor since it works
slaved to the X. The gantry started to move both ways at once the
first time. <g> Now I have to figure out how to configure the limit
switches and home switches, and then I'm up and running! Finally.
Next, I need to learn how to run Mach3, BobCAD, and BobART Pro.

[Leon]

Let me say another way, typically if the vac filter is directly exposed
to the debris it is intended to protect the motor first, you second.
The secondary filters in addition to the debris going straight into the
collection bag typically are designed to protect you.

>
> I'm sure it's not as quiet as a Festool, but if it broke I would replace
> it with the same model. Maybe I'll try hooking it to a TS when I get
> one! : )

You probably will not be satisfied with a shop vac, any brand, connected
to a TS. You really need the volume that a DC offers. TS's have
numerous air paths which pretty much make a shop vac ineffective.

[Bill]

No secondary filters here.

>
>
>>
>> I'm sure it's not as quiet as a Festool, but if it broke I would replace
>> it with the same model. Maybe I'll try hooking it to a TS when I get
>> one! : )
>
> You probably will not be satisfied with a shop vac, any brand, connected
> to a TS. You really need the volume that a DC offers. TS's have
> numerous air paths which pretty much make a shop vac ineffective.

Okay. Thank you for making me aware of that. I wasn't sure.

[dadiOH]

Bill wrote:

> Using the green Chrome Oxide honing compound, black muck is created
> when honing. I'm not sure whether genuine swarf is created or not. It
> probably is, but I'm not familiar enough with the term.

FWIW, I've been using straight razors for 60 years. I've occasionally used
a compound - not chrome oxide - but with or without I've never had any muck
of any color. I wouldn't expect any...honing is more to straighten/lay the
edge than for removing material.

[Jack]

On 7/31/2012 11:26 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

> Actually no Larry. I really do not care if you or CW plonk me. Your
> opinions of yourselves are quite overrated when you believe that anyone
> really cares about your plonking stuff. Do as you wish.

As my pool buddies would say, tap, tap.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

[Jack]

Tap! Tap!

Tha'ts 4 taps in 2 posts.

Thinks are looking up.

[Bill]

dadiOH wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>> Using the green Chrome Oxide honing compound, black muck is created
>> when honing. I'm not sure whether genuine swarf is created or not. It
>> probably is, but I'm not familiar enough with the term.
>
>
> FWIW, I've been using straight razors for 60 years. I've occasionally used
> a compound - not chrome oxide - but with or without I've never had any muck
> of any color. I wouldn't expect any...honing is more to straighten/lay the
> edge than for removing material.

Most of the woodcarvers I know are carving basswood, so a lot of metal
does not need to be removed from their knives. I have been assured that
the honing compound IS removing material. I don't claim any further
expertise on the matter.

Regards,
Bill

[Bill]

Bill wrote:
> dadiOH wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>> Using the green Chrome Oxide honing compound, black muck is created
>>> when honing. I'm not sure whether genuine swarf is created or not. It
>>> probably is, but I'm not familiar enough with the term.
>>
>>
>> FWIW, I've been using straight razors for 60 years. I've occasionally
>> used
>> a compound - not chrome oxide - but with or without I've never had any
>> muck
>> of any color. I wouldn't expect any...honing is more to
>> straighten/lay the
>> edge than for removing material.

You can see the black stuff I'm talking about at the beginning of this
video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPCpvD_dCAE

For honing carving knives, it evidentally comes with the territory.
The strop I made is prettier! : )

Bill

[CW]

"Bill" wrote in message news:jvbk3...@news6.newsguy.com...

[tiredofspam]

You should have gotten the water unit. Its a bucket that the vac hooks
to. Then it goes to a sanding pad. The drywall drops to the bucket
(filled with water) and prevents the filter from clogging.

I have one and after listening to the wife really complain about the
dust, went out and got the better unit with a really long hose.

So glad I did. I have loaned it out about a dozen times and everyone has
the same reaction.... WOW!!!!

[CW]

"Bill" wrote in message news:jvbk3...@news6.newsguy.com...

You can see the black stuff I'm talking about at the beginning of this
video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPCpvD_dCAE

For honing carving knives, it evidentally comes with the territory.
The strop I made is prettier! : )

======================================================================
If you are using a good polishing compound on the strop, it will turn black.
If it doesn't, your compound is not cutting. Unlike a stone though, it does
not run off and become a mess. It sticks to the strop. My strop has compound
on one side and bare leather on the other. Contrary to popular belief, bare
leather does remove metal,although very very slowly.

[Bill]

Using a vacuum bag inside the shop vac, the filter doesn't clog at all.
The directions for the sander suggested, as an alternative to a vacuum
bag, to put a few inches of water inside the shop vac. I found that DID
result in a clogged filter.
My reaction to the way mine works is still the same as yours: WOW!

My only further comment is the cost is higher than the price of the
sander ($45), because I still had to buy a 1 1/4" hose ($15), adapter
($4), and bags (2 for $17). Yes, I keep track of my purchases on a
spreadsheet! ;) You'd still be buying sanding screens whether doing
with a vacuum sander or not. I think it's still a good value, I'm just
providing information. In all fairness, this is the "bottom end" of such
sanders, it is getting the job done, and I am impressed with the
results--the connection of the hose to the sander not so much (but it's
nothing I can't maintain with duct tape).

Reminding me of the "Best bang for 10 bucks" thread, the profit margin
the sanding unit above must be darn impressive!

Bill

[Larry Jaques]

Green compound is a _polishing_ compound more than anything, so it
removes very little metal. Got that pic yet?

[Larry Jaques]

On Wed, 1 Aug 2012 09:46:46 -0700, "CW" <cma...@earthlink.et> wrote:

>
>
>"Bill" wrote in message news:jvbk3...@news6.newsguy.com...
>
>Bill wrote:
>> dadiOH wrote:
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>> Using the green Chrome Oxide honing compound, black muck is created
>>>> when honing. I'm not sure whether genuine swarf is created or not. It
>>>> probably is, but I'm not familiar enough with the term.
>>>
>>>
>>> FWIW, I've been using straight razors for 60 years. I've occasionally
>>> used
>>> a compound - not chrome oxide - but with or without I've never had any
>>> muck
>>> of any color. I wouldn't expect any...honing is more to
>>> straighten/lay the
>>> edge than for removing material.
>
>You can see the black stuff I'm talking about at the beginning of this
>video:
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPCpvD_dCAE

Yeah, and that has at least a -decade- of metal, finger oils, dust,
rust, shop oils, etc. on it by the time that video was shot.

[Bill]

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:14:41 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> dadiOH wrote:
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>> Using the green Chrome Oxide honing compound, black muck is created
>>>> when honing. I'm not sure whether genuine swarf is created or not. It
>>>> probably is, but I'm not familiar enough with the term.
>>>
>>>
>>> FWIW, I've been using straight razors for 60 years. I've occasionally used
>>> a compound - not chrome oxide - but with or without I've never had any muck
>>> of any color. I wouldn't expect any...honing is more to straighten/lay the
>>> edge than for removing material.
>>
>> Most of the woodcarvers I know are carving basswood, so a lot of metal
>> does not need to be removed from their knives. I have been assured that
>> the honing compound IS removing material. I don't claim any further
>> expertise on the matter.
>
> Green compound is a _polishing_ compound more than anything, so it
> removes very little metal. Got that pic yet?

It removes enough to keep the knives sharp. What is your point?

[Larry Jaques]

On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 23:13:34 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:14:41 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>> dadiOH wrote:
>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Using the green Chrome Oxide honing compound, black muck is created
>>>>> when honing. I'm not sure whether genuine swarf is created or not. It
>>>>> probably is, but I'm not familiar enough with the term.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, I've been using straight razors for 60 years. I've occasionally used
>>>> a compound - not chrome oxide - but with or without I've never had any muck
>>>> of any color. I wouldn't expect any...honing is more to straighten/lay the
>>>> edge than for removing material.
>>>
>>> Most of the woodcarvers I know are carving basswood, so a lot of metal
>>> does not need to be removed from their knives. I have been assured that
>>> the honing compound IS removing material. I don't claim any further
>>> expertise on the matter.
>>
>> Green compound is a _polishing_ compound more than anything, so it
>> removes very little metal. Got that pic yet?
>
>It removes enough to keep the knives sharp. What is your point?

I'm still trying to figure out what your source of "black muck" is.

[tiredofspam]

Putting water in the vac is not the same as what I have.
Glad that the bag works well. I am surprised.

Just for info:

The unit that I have is the http://www.sandkleen.com/products.htm
MT800... excellent, one weakness is the sanding block. Don't drop it
from 7.5 feet. It will break the handle off, but that is easily glued
back with either C/A or epoxy with a little carbon fiber.

If you view the manual you can see how the hosing works inside the
bucket. so the dust is placed in the water, not in the air like your vac
.. The 20 foot hose was great.. glad I went for the longer hose.

[Bill]

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 23:13:34 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:14:41 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> dadiOH wrote:
>>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Using the green Chrome Oxide honing compound, black muck is created
>>>>>> when honing. I'm not sure whether genuine swarf is created or not. It
>>>>>> probably is, but I'm not familiar enough with the term.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, I've been using straight razors for 60 years. I've occasionally used
>>>>> a compound - not chrome oxide - but with or without I've never had any muck
>>>>> of any color. I wouldn't expect any...honing is more to straighten/lay the
>>>>> edge than for removing material.
>>>>
>>>> Most of the woodcarvers I know are carving basswood, so a lot of metal
>>>> does not need to be removed from their knives. I have been assured that
>>>> the honing compound IS removing material. I don't claim any further
>>>> expertise on the matter.
>>>
>>> Green compound is a _polishing_ compound more than anything, so it
>>> removes very little metal. Got that pic yet?
>>
>> It removes enough to keep the knives sharp. What is your point?
>
> I'm still trying to figure out what your source of "black muck" is.

It's pretty popular stuff so I suspect I could answer is in range. I'll
suspect Doug Miller could provide a good explanation if he might be
reading. I also suspect a little metal goes a long way in creating
black muck from the honing compound.

[Bill]

Leon wrote:
> On 7/30/2012 5:08 PM, Bill wrote:

>>> On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 02:14:51 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:

>>>>> I just tried poly (Minwax wipe-on) for the first time.

>
>
> Don't worry about the "nibs" until you are finished. Then rub it all
> down with a paper sack or printer paper.
>


I sanded very lightly with 600 grit following the 2nd coat (and several
days), and applied the 3rd coat. I noticed a blemish (1" by 1/4")
created either by the blue nitrile gloves or by the sand paper. It is
still visible following the 4th coat which I applied without sanding first.

My thinking is that I should give it 24 hours or more to set, and then
go back to the blemish with the 600 grit (I have up to 2000 grit). Is
this the right strategy, or is this likely to just make the blemish bigger?

Thanks,
Bill

[Leon]

Define blemish.

[tiredofspam]

No..
600 is for wet sanding a final finish.

2000 is way overkill.. used for the glossiest of finishes (especially
when I was building model airplanes)... and great for tool edging.

If you have a blemish what kind?

if it is a fish eye or rough patch, sand with 220 or 320 to knock it
down and put a new layer on after cleaning. If it is deep, you will need
to use 180 to 220 to take it down a layer or 2.. then reapply your finish...

BTW you can reduce fish eyes with a fish eye killer. I got mine from an
auto paint shop years ago. Now we have no auto paint supply shops where
I live now. You can probably get some at a good paint store.

I think mine was Raja fish eye killer. I can't read the label anymore.
1 drop per pint - quart (already thinned) that's all thats required..
it'll last you a long time.

[Bill]

I took 2 pictures to describe "blemish" and put them on my web page:
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

My guess is that they were caused by "sandpaper damage". I was pretty
gentle though, using 600-grit with water. Hmmm..I was thinking that
would be gentler than "dry", but now I'm not sure.

Can you suggest to me the best way to pretty-her back up?

Bill

[Mike Marlow]

Bill wrote:

>>> I sanded very lightly with 600 grit following the 2nd coat (and
>>> several days), and applied the 3rd coat. I noticed a blemish (1"
>>> by 1/4") created either by the blue nitrile gloves or by the sand
>>> paper. It is still visible following the 4th coat which I applied
>>> without sanding first.
>>>
>>> My thinking is that I should give it 24 hours or more to set, and
>>> then go back to the blemish with the 600 grit (I have up to 2000
>>> grit). Is this the right strategy, or is this likely to just make
>>> the blemish bigger?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Bill
>>
>> Define blemish.
>
> I took 2 pictures to describe "blemish" and put them on my web page:
> http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
>
> My guess is that they were caused by "sandpaper damage". I was pretty
> gentle though, using 600-grit with water. Hmmm..I was thinking that
> would be gentler than "dry", but now I'm not sure.
>
> Can you suggest to me the best way to pretty-her back up?
>

Hard to tell for sure from the picture Bill, but it looks like a low spot to
me. If you it it lightly with 600, you will likely just go over the higher
surrounding spots and not even touch the low spot, resulting in what I think
I see. To minimize it, try taking some 600 and just roughing up that divot
(it that is what it is...). Then refinish. Or - if you want really flat,
take a paint stick and wrap your 600 around it. Then go over the area until
you level it out. That's what we do to get car panels dead level.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Bill]

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>>>> I sanded very lightly with 600 grit following the 2nd coat (and
>>>> several days), and applied the 3rd coat. I noticed a blemish (1"
>>>> by 1/4") created either by the blue nitrile gloves or by the sand
>>>> paper. It is still visible following the 4th coat which I applied
>>>> without sanding first.
>>>>
>>>> My thinking is that I should give it 24 hours or more to set, and
>>>> then go back to the blemish with the 600 grit (I have up to 2000
>>>> grit). Is this the right strategy, or is this likely to just make
>>>> the blemish bigger?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Bill
>>>
>>> Define blemish.
>>
>> I took 2 pictures to describe "blemish" and put them on my web page:
>> http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
>>
>> My guess is that they were caused by "sandpaper damage". I was pretty
>> gentle though, using 600-grit with water. Hmmm..I was thinking that
>> would be gentler than "dry", but now I'm not sure.
>>
>> Can you suggest to me the best way to pretty-her back up?
>>
>
> Hard to tell for sure from the picture Bill, but it looks like a low spot to
> me.

Yes, it's now a low spot, but it was not low until I passed sandpaper
over it after the 2nd coat. I think (what you're saying) is that I want
to sand the "edges" of the divot I created. Maybe steel wool?

I have to wait the "customary 24 hours", before I sand anyway, so I'll
see what others suggest too. It's not like there is a lot at stake
here, as I could sand all of the finish off in a few minutes (just
losing my "finishing time")--but I'd like to try to fix it as a matter
of principle. Time==Money, I doubt most pros would start over.

Thanks,
Bill

[Leon]

Uh huh, and exactly why I do not advocate sanding between coats unless
the product indicates light scuff.

>
> I have to wait the "customary 24 hours", before I sand anyway, so I'll
> see what others suggest too. It's not like there is a lot at stake
> here, as I could sand all of the finish off in a few minutes (just
> losing my "finishing time")--but I'd like to try to fix it as a matter
> of principle. Time==Money, I doubt most pros would start over.

I would sand it all smooth and start over. Lesson learned.

As a matter of principal, don't wast any more time, start over with the
finish.

[Mike Marlow]

Bill wrote:

>
> Yes, it's now a low spot, but it was not low until I passed sandpaper
> over it after the 2nd coat. I think (what you're saying) is that I
> want to sand the "edges" of the divot I created. Maybe steel wool?

No - do not use steel wool. Use more of the same sandpaper that you had
used, but be careful not to let your finger pressure create divots. Use the
pads of your fingers and light pressure. Let time at work be your friend,
and not pressure - until you get a handle on this stuff. Or - like I said,
use a paint stick or a sanding block to get it back to flat. Until you
learn the pressure in your fingers, you are best to use a block. Even after
you do learn this, you will want to use a block. I still use blocks and
sticks to level out a surface, and I have a lot of experience at this stuff.

>
> I have to wait the "customary 24 hours", before I sand anyway, so I'll
> see what others suggest too. It's not like there is a lot at stake
> here, as I could sand all of the finish off in a few minutes (just
> losing my "finishing time")--but I'd like to try to fix it as a matter
> of principle. Time==Money, I doubt most pros would start over.

You could use steel wool or something else (scotch pads) to get down into
the divot, but you'll still have a divot, and that's why I suggest the
things I do above.


--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net.

[Bill]

Yes, I think I'll start over like Leon suggested. Now that I have a
grasp of the procedure I ought to be able to put on coats pretty fast.

In the meantime, I am going to play with drywall compound. I will share
a little secret which greatly improved my taping: Dunk the length of
paper tape in a bucket of water (I shake it off real well). While this
may add an unnecessary step for a pro, it permits amateurs to obtain
100% success--no bubbles or other defects, or at least a lot fewer of
them! Try it next time you have to retape a joint, or sooner!

Bill

[Mike Marlow]

Bill wrote:

>
> Yes, I think I'll start over like Leon suggested. Now that I have a
> grasp of the procedure I ought to be able to put on coats pretty fast.

You can - it's not bad advice. But... it's good to learn how to get past
the problems we create. without starting over. It's just a low spot, and it
can be fixed. Either way, you're going to have to get it out or else you
will just have it show up again when you start over. Low spots don't just
do away, you have to sand them away.

>
> In the meantime, I am going to play with drywall compound.

You sir, are a glutton for punishment...

> I will
> share a little secret which greatly improved my taping: Dunk the
> length of paper tape in a bucket of water (I shake it off real well).

Yup - no secret though... that's the way you're supposed to put it on.


--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Bill]

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes, I think I'll start over like Leon suggested. Now that I have a
>> grasp of the procedure I ought to be able to put on coats pretty fast.
>
> You can - it's not bad advice. But... it's good to learn how to get past
> the problems we create. without starting over. It's just a low spot, and it
> can be fixed. Either way, you're going to have to get it out or else you
> will just have it show up again when you start over. Low spots don't just
> do away, you have to sand them away.

When I look at it, I think it's worth a try too. I'll let you know how
it goes.

>
>>
>> In the meantime, I am going to play with drywall compound.
>
> You sir, are a glutton for punishment...
>
>> I will
>> share a little secret which greatly improved my taping: Dunk the
>> length of paper tape in a bucket of water (I shake it off real well).
>
> Yup - no secret though... that's the way you're supposed to put it on.

I believe you, but the "secret" is usually not mentioned where it ought
to be.

Bill

[Morgans]

"Leon" wrote

I would sand it all smooth and start over. Lesson learned.

As a matter of principal, don't wast any more time, start over with the
finish.

********************************************
I second that thought. I won't tell you how many times I started over on
one of my early major projects. I can't count that high, anymore!

I use sanding sealer after stain before poly. I put on two good coats
before I scuff it with anything.

-- Jim in NC

[dadiOH]

1. Sand the "blemish" and surrounding area so that it isn't sunken

2. Apply more finish

Note: this concludes today's rocket science lesson.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[Mike Marlow]

Yeah - probably because it seems most people have gotten away from paper
tape these days and have gone to fiberglass mesh tape. That stuff has a
sticky on it, so you just press it on the wall and start mudding.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Bill]

I don't think that's the reason. Have you ever seen anyone use a tape
reel and water at the same time? Most, but not all, of the drywall
instruction I have seen do not mention wetting the paper tape.
Having done it both ways, taking the time to wet it is a very smart
investment. Evidentally, you were taught the same way.

I think the paper tape can deliver thinner joints, especially where
non-tapered edges almost meet. I have not tried the fiberglass mesh
tape. I am sure it has it's advantages. I'd be lying if I said I didn't
get some satisfaction from making a "well-taped joint"--I haven't
possessed the skill that long! I am getting even more satisfaction
since I started dunking the tape in water! : )

Bill



>

[k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

Don't taping banjos have a sponge or something to wet the tape. I just use
the nylon mesh stuff. I *hate* taping and I have a lot of it coming up over
the next few years.

[Bill]

dadiOH wrote:

> Bill wrote:

>> Can you suggest to me the best way to pretty-her back up?
>
> 1. Sand the "blemish" and surrounding area so that it isn't sunken
>
> 2. Apply more finish
>
> Note: this concludes today's rocket science lesson.

I was definitely impressed with how a mere few seconds with 1200-grit
removed the small "crater". More finish has been applied! : )

Bill

[Mike Marlow]

Bill wrote:

> Most, but not all, of the drywall
> instruction I have seen do not mention wetting the paper tape.
> Having done it both ways, taking the time to wet it is a very smart
> investment. Evidentally, you were taught the same way.

Correct.

>
> I think the paper tape can deliver thinner joints, especially where
> non-tapered edges almost meet. I have not tried the fiberglass mesh
> tape. I am sure it has it's advantages. I'd be lying if I said I
> didn't get some satisfaction from making a "well-taped joint"--I
> haven't possessed the skill that long! I am getting even more
> satisfaction since I started dunking the tape in water! : )
>

I still prefer paper tape myself. In part because it is thinner and easier
to get a nice blend with, and in part because it's what I grew up with.
I've used plenty of fiberglass mesh tape, but if the two are side by side, I
generally prefer to use the paper stuff.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Mike Marlow]

Yup - typically the divot is not really all that deep, but the finish really
makes it look deep. A little bit of work and it's gone.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Bill]

Making a "$100 honing strop" was mostly about getting a lesson--and I
was a benefactor of several excellent ones besides what I learned
myself! My favorite part was using my Nicholson rasp for the first time.
I'll post a pic after I glue on the leather this week in case anyone
would care to see the result. Thank you for your help!

Bill

[Michael Joel]

tiredofspam wrote:
> BTW you can reduce fish eyes with a fish eye killer. I got mine from an
> auto paint shop years ago. Now we have no auto paint supply shops where
> I live now. You can probably get some at a good paint store.
>
> I think mine was Raja fish eye killer. I can't read the label anymore.
> 1 drop per pint - quart (already thinned) that's all thats required..
> it'll last you a long time.
>

That would be silicon oil.

[Larry Jaques]

Yes, probably.

[Larry Jaques]

On Sat, 4 Aug 2012 07:22:41 -0400, "dadiOH" <dad...@invalid.com>
wrote:

Possibly oversanded or merely wiped off with rubber glove.


>2. Apply more finish

Right, no big.

>Note: this concludes today's rocket science lesson.

Precisely. Another wipe-on coat should have hidden it immediately. If
not, he might have a contaminant in the finish IF it wasn't there
before (and after) the -first- coat.

[Bill]

Larry Jaques wrote:

>> Note: this concludes today's rocket science lesson.
>
> Precisely. Another wipe-on coat should have hidden it immediately. If
> not, he might have a contaminant in the finish IF it wasn't there
> before (and after) the -first- coat.

No, I tried two further coats (which didn't hide the small "crater").
Very minimal sanding with 1200-grit sanded the blemish perfectly smoothe.

I'm sure I will find the technique" very helpful again.

Jeff Jewitt's book, "Taunton's Complete Illustrated Guide to Finishing"
is on my list of books to watch for.

Bill

[Larry Jaques]

On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 01:20:55 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>>> Note: this concludes today's rocket science lesson.
>>
>> Precisely. Another wipe-on coat should have hidden it immediately. If
>> not, he might have a contaminant in the finish IF it wasn't there
>> before (and after) the -first- coat.
>
>
>No, I tried two further coats (which didn't hide the small "crater").
>Very minimal sanding with 1200-grit sanded the blemish perfectly smoothe.
>
>I'm sure I will find the technique" very helpful again.
>
>Jeff Jewitt's book, "Taunton's Complete Illustrated Guide to Finishing"
>is on my list of books to watch for.

His _Hand Applied Finishes_ is my bible.

[Father Haskell]

On Aug 1, 11:13 pm, Bill <B...@nospam.net> wrote:
> Larry Jaques wrote:

> > On Wed, 01 Aug 2012 11:14:41 -0400, Bill <B...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
> >> dadiOH wrote:
> >>> Bill wrote:
>

> >>>> Using the green Chrome Oxide honing compound, black muck is created
> >>>> when honing. I'm not sure whether genuine swarf is created or not. It
> >>>> probably is, but I'm not familiar enough with the term.
>
> >>> FWIW, I've been using straight razors for 60 years.  I've occasionally used
> >>> a compound - not chrome oxide - but with or without I've never had any muck
> >>> of any color.  I wouldn't expect any...honing is more to straighten/lay the
> >>> edge than for removing material.
>
> >> Most of the woodcarvers I know are carving basswood, so a lot of metal
> >> does not need to be removed from their knives. I have been assured that
> >> the honing compound IS removing material.  I don't claim any further
> >> expertise on the matter.
>
> > Green compound is a _polishing_ compound more than anything, so it
> > removes very little metal.  Got that pic yet?
>
> It removes enough to keep the knives sharp.  What is your point?

Cuts tool steel about 3x faster than red rouge.

[Bill]

Bill wrote:

> Making a "$100 honing strop" was mostly about getting a lesson--and I
> was a benefactor of several excellent ones besides what I learned
> myself! My favorite part was using my Nicholson rasp for the first time.
> I'll post a pic after I glue on the leather this week in case anyone
> would care to see the result. Thank you for your help!
>
> Bill
>

I posted 3 pics of my honing strong on my website in case anyone would
like to see it before I start mucking it up! ; ) One of them includes
a picture of a tool roll I started last spring.

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Bill

[Mike Marlow]

Bill wrote:

>
> I posted 3 pics of my honing strong on my website in case anyone would
> like to see it before I start mucking it up! ; ) One of them
> includes a picture of a tool roll I started last spring.
>

Very nice Bill!

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Larry Jaques]

On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 01:39:20 -0400, Bill <Bi...@nospam.net> wrote:

>Bill wrote:
>
>> Making a "$100 honing strop" was mostly about getting a lesson--and I
>> was a benefactor of several excellent ones besides what I learned
>> myself! My favorite part was using my Nicholson rasp for the first time.

Good rasps are a far cry from the deep-toothed cousins from Asia,
aren't they? They're a joy to use instead of an onerous task.

>> I'll post a pic after I glue on the leather this week in case anyone
>> would care to see the result. Thank you for your help!
>>
>> Bill
>>
>
>
>I posted 3 pics of my honing strong on my website in case anyone would

Other than it being too short by half (black muck will quickly cover
it), it's shore purty. Is that a decal you glued to one side of the
leather?!

>like to see it before I start mucking it up! ; ) One of them includes
>a picture of a tool roll I started last spring.
>
>http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Hey, no need to deepen your voice at the fabric store. Real Men Sew.