Substitute for Red Devil lye?
the_tool_man
I'm gearing up for my first major project with cherry. An associate of
mine recommended using a lye solution to darken the wood. After some
research, I'd like to try it. However, I've found that Red Devil lye
is no longer sold locally. I've found a few leads through candlemaking
websites, but they require me to purchase 30lb of the stuff. I just
want a little to experiment with. Are there any other brands to look
for? My local searches have yeilded nothing that is pure sodium
hydroxide, and I'm reluctant to use anything that has "other stuff" in
it. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
John.
the_tool_man
Thanks again for any help!
Regards,
John.
Dhakala
That's why lye is, John. You can make it at home. This recipe is rather
elaborate, for producing significant quantities. But I'm sure you can
scale it down and simplify it. The basic idea is to pour soft water
over hardwood ashes. N. B.: don't use any metal containers!
Dhakala
Dhakala wrote:
> the_tool_man wrote:
> > Anybody used potassium hydroxide?
> >
> > Thanks again for any help!
> >
> > Regards,
> > John.
>
> That's why lye is, John.
"What lye is," I meant.
Toller
"the_tool_man" <john_...@infoave.net> wrote in message
news:1151596358.7...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
You can try lye for darkening; I have never had any luck with it. It sorta
works, but looks like wood that has had lye on it.
bob.kir...@heapg.com
Here are some sources for smaller quantities.
http://www.chemistrystore.com/Sodium_Hydroxide.htm
Dhakala
Watch out for hazmat shipping/handling charges... they can kill ya!
Wes Stewart
wrote:
I've bought it at Ace Hardware.
Doug Miller
But that's *not* what lye is. Lye is sodium hydroxide.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
wood_...@yahoo.com
Toller wrote:
> You can try lye for darkening; I have never had any luck with it. It sorta
> works, but looks like wood that has had lye on it.
I'm with you there...in my experience it adds a tremendous amount of
red to the wood...a very unatural look.
Myself I prefer to fume it in order to speed up the darkening process.
No artificial look to it at all.
However, if I were the OP I would definitely try to get hold of some to
experiment with. That's the way I learned, and I've found there is no
better teacher. And there may be some opportunities where that red
look might just fit the bill.
And hey...what's the harm? If you don't like it, you just pour the
rest down the drain!
the_tool_man
I just went to my local Ace this morning. I was told that Ace no
longer carries Red Devil lye because it is used in the manufacture of
methamphetamine. I guess that's why I can't find it anywhere.
the_tool_man
By lye, I mean sodium hydroxide. Potassium hydroxide is a.k.a. Potash
Lye. They are two different things, but with sorta the same name. The
question is, does it produce the same effect as "regular" lye. I ask,
because I think Potassium hydoxide is used as a pH modifier in spa
chemicals, which I can get in reasonable quantities.
Wes Stewart
wrote:
>Hi Wes:
>
>I just went to my local Ace this morning. I was told that Ace no
>longer carries Red Devil lye because it is used in the manufacture of
>methamphetamine. I guess that's why I can't find it anywhere.
Crap. I use it for cleaing/etching aluminum. Glad I still have about
4 cans in stock.
joelj...@aol.com
>... I've found that Red Devil lye is no longer sold locally. ... My local searches have yeilded nothing that is pure sodium hydroxide, and I'm reluctant to use anything that has "other stuff" in it.
You don't need pure "sodium hydroxide". In a pinch you can use Easy-Off
oven cleaner or Drano. Both contain lye.
joelj...@aol.com
Doug Miller
>
>>... I've found that Red Devil lye is no longer sold locally. ... My local
> searches have yeilded nothing that is pure sodium hydroxide, and I'm reluctant
> to use anything that has "other stuff" in it.
>
>You don't need pure "sodium hydroxide".
In fact, for coloring cherry, you probably *do* need pure NaOH.
>In a pinch you can use Easy-Off
>oven cleaner or Drano. Both contain lye.
Yes, they do. They also contain various other substances whose presence may be
undesirable. It's not wise to assume that they are interchangeable.
Lew Hodgett
> By lye, I mean sodium hydroxide.
AKA: "caustic".
Almost every paint stripper uses it as the muscle to soften paint.
Does a great job of eating wood fibers.
BTW, have a couple of customers with 10,000 gallon tanks of 50%
caustic, but that doesn't help much.
It is used to make detergents as well as paint stripper.
Lew
Thomas Kendrick
$10 for 2#, $67 for 25# ships UPS in the continental US.
Hambone Slim
> By lye, I mean sodium hydroxide.
Part A of a two step wood bleach, such as Klean-Strip brand, is sodium
hydroxide. Part B is Hydrogen Peroxide.
This stuff works great for bleaching walnut, but does not give a uniform
effect on cherry, IMO. Also, the lye component damages the wood fibers.
Lye is also used for making wood pulp for paper, IIRC.
You say this is your first project in cherry - putting lye on it seems like
a pretty drastic step. Most people really like cherry as-is, and it can be
dyed and/or stained for some really nice effects. Also, there is a simple
trick for darkening cherry that doesnt require any harsh chemicals. Just
put your completed but unfinished piece in the sun for a few days. It will
darken up very quickly.
--
Timothy Juvenal
www.rude-tone.com/work.htm
Dhakala
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <1151599528....@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>, "Dhakala" <NoPoliti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >Dhakala wrote:
> >> the_tool_man wrote:
> >> > Anybody used potassium hydroxide?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks again for any help!
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > John.
> >>
> >> That's why lye is, John.
> >
> >"What lye is," I meant.
>
> But that's *not* what lye is. Lye is sodium hydroxide.
It can be either. The lye made from ashes is potash lye, potassium
hydroxide.
Dhakala
the_tool_man wrote:
> Hi Dhakala:
>
> By lye, I mean sodium hydroxide. Potassium hydroxide is a.k.a. Potash
> Lye. They are two different things, but with sorta the same name. The
> question is, does it produce the same effect as "regular" lye. I ask,
> because I think Potassium hydoxide is used as a pH modifier in spa
> chemicals, which I can get in reasonable quantities.
NaOH and KOH are both known as "lye." It's the hydroxyl group (-OH)
that does the job. It won't matter if the metallic ion is potassium or
sodium. NaOH is a slightly stronger base than KOH.
Here's a page that says Red Devil Lye has been pulled from retail
markets. It describes several other products that are NaOH or KOH, plus
retail and online sources.
http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/coldprocesssoapmaking/a/lyesources.htm
Doug Miller
>
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <1151599528....@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>, "Dhakala"
> <NoPoliti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Dhakala wrote:
>> >> the_tool_man wrote:
>> >> > Anybody used potassium hydroxide?
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks again for any help!
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > John.
>> >>
>> >> That's why lye is, John.
>> >
>> >"What lye is," I meant.
>>
>> But that's *not* what lye is. Lye is sodium hydroxide.
>
>It can be either.
Not correct. Lye is specifically NaOH.
>The lye made from ashes is potash lye, potassium
>hydroxide.
OK, fine, but "lye" and "potash lye" are not the same thing.
Phisherman
wrote:
>Hi all:
You can buy sodium hydroxide at a chemical supply house. It is
inexpensive and can be purchased as pellets or flakes. It is very
caustic, will dissolve flesh, can cause blindness if you get it into
your eyes, and hydrophilic. It mixes well with water. Wear
protective clothing, rubber gloves, and keep out of reach of children.
artfu...@yahoo.com
for places like Flynn Scientific, Sergeant-Welch, or Fischer
Scientific.
If you can research to find out what the ideal concentration is, it
will probably be expressed as some 'molarity,' like a 5M solution. To
mix these kinds of solutions accurately, for each unit of molarity, use
40 grams of NaOH with enough water to make one liter, (about a quart +
2 oz.). So for instance, a 4M solution would be 160 grams of NaOH with
enough water to make one liter. For smaller or larger amounts, just
ratio it down or up. Make you solutions in glass. DO NOT put this in
contact with metal.
It will come as pellets. They must be kept under tight seal. They
will pull moisture out of the air. If you look at them they will look
dry, but if you were to rub a pellet between your fingers it will feel
greasy. The grease is the fat in your own skin being dissolved.
Stray pellets must not be thrown in a garbage can. Just wash them down
the sink. Drano is made mainly of NaOH.
Dhakala
Doug Miller wrote:
> >> But that's *not* what lye is. Lye is sodium hydroxide.
> >
> >It can be either.
>
> Not correct. Lye is specifically NaOH.
>
> >The lye made from ashes is potash lye, potassium
> >hydroxide.
>
> OK, fine, but "lye" and "potash lye" are not the same thing.
Potassium hydroxide came first, as a result of the very natural and
ancient process of rain falling on forest fires. It is the stuff for
which the word "lye" was coined centuries ago.
Sodium hydroxide is a manmade and much more recent compound. The oldest
process for its manufacture seems to date to 1772.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hydroxide
So I maintain that KOH is the original lye, and NaOH has glommed onto
the name simply by becoming the more common and cheaper caustic.
lwas...@fellspt.charm.net
Dhakala <NoPoliti...@gmail.com> wrote:
<...other quotes snipped...>
>Potassium hydroxide came first, as a result of the very natural and
>ancient process of rain falling on forest fires. It is the stuff for
>which the word "lye" was coined centuries ago.
>
>http://m-w.com/dictionary/lye
>
>Sodium hydroxide is a manmade and much more recent compound. The oldest
>process for its manufacture seems to date to 1772.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hydroxide
>
>So I maintain that KOH is the original lye, and NaOH has glommed onto
>the name simply by becoming the more common and cheaper caustic.
>
Just like thousands of other words have had their accepted meanings
changed in the last few hundred years. You can maintain what you want
to, but if you went to any hardware store or chemical supplier and
asked for lye, you'd get NaOH.
No lie! (Sorry couldn't resist)
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
lwas...@charm.net
Doug Miller
NoPoliti...@gmail.com says...
>
> Doug Miller wrote:
>
> > >> But that's *not* what lye is. Lye is sodium hydroxide.
> > >
> > >It can be either.
> >
> > Not correct. Lye is specifically NaOH.
> >
> > >The lye made from ashes is potash lye, potassium
> > >hydroxide.
> >
> > OK, fine, but "lye" and "potash lye" are not the same thing.
>
> Potassium hydroxide came first, as a result of the very natural and
> ancient process of rain falling on forest fires. It is the stuff for
> which the word "lye" was coined centuries ago.
Sorry to bust your bubble, but this simply isn't true. Water plus wood
ash yields potassium *carbonate*, not potassium hydroxide.
>
> http://m-w.com/dictionary/lye
>
> Sodium hydroxide is a manmade and much more recent compound. The oldest
> process for its manufacture seems to date to 1772.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hydroxide
>
> So I maintain that KOH is the original lye, and NaOH has glommed onto
> the name simply by becoming the more common and cheaper caustic.
Maintain what you want -- lye is NaOH, as you can discover by reading
any *real* encyclopedia.
The chemist
You are wrong. Chemically it may be SIMILAR but similar is NOT the same.
Different reactions and reactivities. While for some uses it might not matter,
for other uses everything about it matters. True lye IS the true NaOH. I'm a
chemist, I should know.
--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/substitute-for-red-devil-lye-107100-.htm
Leon
> replying to Dhakala, The chemist wrote:
> You are wrong. Chemically it may be SIMILAR but similar is NOT the same.
> Different reactions and reactivities. While for some uses it might not
> matter,
> for other uses everything about it matters. True lye IS the true NaOH.
> I'm a
> chemist, I should know.
Puckdropper
do chemistry, right?
Puckdropper