Varathane Diamond Finish - experiences?
Mike Fairleigh
I'm considering using Diamond to finish a white ash easel for my daughter.
Not because it's "safe" for kids (all modern finishes are, once cured), but
because the only place I have available to finish right now is the
basement, 6 feet from a gas water heater and furnace. Also, this time of
year in Kansas City the humidity is likely to be 45% one day and 100% the
next; I can control it much better inside than I can in the garage. Not to
mention dust!
I read in Wood magazine some time ago that Diamond is much more resistant
to liquids and solvents than any other waterbased poly's. That's why I
planned to go with it rather than other brands. I'll be using a brush.
However, if anyone thinks this finish is asking for trouble, I'd like to
know why. Or if you have related insight I'd love to hear it. Thank you!
--
Mike
mi...@sky.net
X-no-archive: yes
stev
>I read in Wood magazine some time ago that Diamond is much more resistant
>to liquids and solvents than any other waterbased poly's. That's why I
>planned to go with it rather than other brands. I'll be using a brush.
>
>However, if anyone thinks this finish is asking for trouble, I'd like to
>know why. Or if you have related insight I'd love to hear it. Thank you!
>--
>Mike
>mi...@sky.net
I use it, and I like it. Its funny looking stuff, real milky white.
I put it on over watco danish oil. I use it for the reason you want
to. I set up shop in the kitchen when Im finishing, cause the garage
is too dusty. No odor, easy cleanup. Looks good, but I think the stuff
Ive finished with regular varathane looks better. Cant really pin point
why. But never the less, I stick with water based these days.
Havent tried any other brands so far.
stev
--
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Henry Douglas
terrific stuff and great for cleanup, soap and water, low odor and dries
quickly. Remember to stir the can gently, don't shake or you will get
bubbles. If you shake the can, add a teaspoon of milk to the can, the
lactose in the milk will stop the bubbling action.
Henry
Michael Weal
Mike Fairleigh wrote:
>
> I'm considering using Diamond to finish a white ash easel for my daughter.
> Not because it's "safe" for kids (all modern finishes are, once cured), but
> because the only place I have available to finish right now is the
> basement, 6 feet from a gas water heater and furnace. Also, this time of
> year in Kansas City the humidity is likely to be 45% one day and 100% the
> next; I can control it much better inside than I can in the garage. Not to
> mention dust!
>
> to liquids and solvents than any other waterbased poly's. That's why I
> planned to go with it rather than other brands. I'll be using a brush.
>
> However, if anyone thinks this finish is asking for trouble, I'd like to
> know why. Or if you have related insight I'd love to hear it. Thank you!
> --
> Mike
> mi...@sky.net
>
I used this product a couple of years back on an old piano. I was using an off white version rather than the clear. I had two problems
with it.
1) When applying with a roller, if you were not very very carefull you would get bubbles. If you used a brush the coverage was awfull (but
what do you expect when covering a brown finishish iwth a white one).
2) After I finsihed the whole project, I tried cut polishing the finish (not the best finsh for this but...) and then waxed it..... well
the wax reacted with the finish, man was I pissed. Thus the piano is known as the GDF piano.
Peter Shull
I've used Varathane Diamond Finish on a lot of projects, including a
pine bathroom door. So far, so good. Most of the time I used a
disposable foam brush and put on a series of 4 to 5 very thin coats
--- just enough to dampen the surface. Thin coats will dry quickly
and allow you to move on fairly rapidly. When doing this, I found it
important to make sure that no bubbles formed while coating and to
sand after the first and second coats. Also note that the foam brush
can snag on any rough spots, leaving a bit of foam behind. I just
picked these out before the finish set up. I used the satin finish,
multiple coats of which ended up giving a little deeper sheen to the
wood. I've also used it on an alder table top. I didn't follow my own
advice, used a bristle brush and put on thicker coats. The end result
was a finish that had visible brush marks and looked as if was a
thick plastic coating sitting of top of the wood. I'm going to
eventually sand the table top a bit and try a couple of thin layers
with a foam brush.
Pleco...@fish.net
On 18 Mar 1997 07:27:22 GMT, "Mike Fairleigh" <mi...@sky.net> wrote:
>I'm considering using Diamond to finish a white ash easel for my daughter.
>Not because it's "safe" for kids (all modern finishes are, once cured), but
>because the only place I have available to finish right now is the
>basement, 6 feet from a gas water heater and furnace. Also, this time of
>year in Kansas City the humidity is likely to be 45% one day and 100% the
>next; I can control it much better inside than I can in the garage. Not to
>mention dust!
>
>I read in Wood magazine some time ago that Diamond is much more resistant
>to liquids and solvents than any other waterbased poly's. That's why I
>planned to go with it rather than other brands. I'll be using a brush.
>
>However, if anyone thinks this finish is asking for trouble, I'd like to
>know why. Or if you have related insight I'd love to hear it. Thank you!
>--
>Mike
>mi...@sky.net
>
>X-no-archive: yes
I have just finished an end table using the product. It was easy to
apply, dried quickly and was a snap to clean up after. It gives a nice
hard finish. I used the semi-gloss variety and am pleased with the
look. One thing that I found, and perhaps this applies to others, is
that you have to be careful when appliying with a foam brush. It works
well until you get to a corner. You have to be careful not to
compress the brush because it gives you foam. The quick drying nature
of the stuff can cause you a little extra work if you don't notice
that soon enough. I sanded lightly between 3 coats and have a very
nice finish!
** JOE **
<<Due to scum skulking around the Internet and sending
unwanted email when you leave a message in a
newsgroup, I use a pseudonym. To email me directly
just send it to JA...@Lightspeed.net.>>
paul royko
In article <01bc336d$d139a8c0$4dafe6ce@mike-s-computer>, "Mike Fairleigh"
<mi...@sky.net> wrote:
> I'm considering using Diamond to finish a white ash easel for my daughter.
> Not because it's "safe" for kids (all modern finishes are, once cured), but
> because the only place I have available to finish right now is the
> basement, 6 feet from a gas water heater and furnace. Also, this time of
> year in Kansas City the humidity is likely to be 45% one day and 100% the
> next; I can control it much better inside than I can in the garage. Not to
> mention dust!
>
> I read in Wood magazine some time ago that Diamond is much more resistant
> to liquids and solvents than any other waterbased poly's. That's why I
> planned to go with it rather than other brands. I'll be using a brush.
>
> However, if anyone thinks this finish is asking for trouble, I'd like to
> know why. Or if you have related insight I'd love to hear it. Thank you!
Mike,
I've been using the Flecto Diamond Elite almost since it first came out. It
goes on easily, levels well and dries quickly. The smell is a faint musty
smell, about what you'd get from a book that had been stored in a box in
the basement. The surface is hard and polishes up well. And, I haven't
noticed any damage from humidity. Toronto homes can go from 30% in the
winter to 100% in the summer.
The only downside is that it doesn't add the rich colour to light-coloured
woods. But, that can be fixed by staining first. But, this can also be a
positive. I've found that woods like padauk that go from a rich red colour
to a dull burgundy when oiled or finished with a solvent-based urethane,
retain their rich colour with Diamond Elite. I imagine this would be true
of purpleheart as well.
For application on flat surfaces, nothing beats one of those pad
applicators. You can put it on fast enough that you don't have to worry
about lap marks and you end up with a lovely, smooth surface. I usually put
on at least 3 coats. Then, depending on the smoothness, I'll rub with 600
grit wet/dry paper using water as a lubricant, followed by 3M Finnesse-it
II automotive polishing compound. In many cases, I find I can skip the 600
grit and go directly to the 3M product.
Good luck!
--
paul royko
Toronto, Canada
http://www.magic.ca/~royko/olddog1.html
sum...@nowhere.com
Pleco...@Fish.Net wrote:
>On 18 Mar 1997 07:27:22 GMT, "Mike Fairleigh" <mi...@sky.net> wrote:
>>I'm considering using Diamond to finish a white ash easel for my daughter.
>>Not because it's "safe" for kids (all modern finishes are, once cured), but
>>because the only place
snip
>>Mike
>>mi...@sky.net
>>
>>
I've also used gallons of this stuff, spraying & brush. As others
have said, bubbles are the problem. I have had great success using
the felt pads sold in home improvement stores for applying latex or
other paints to walls. Just get one marked "for smooth surfaces".
Stir your can carefully to not agitate. Apply with the pad, have a
foam brush handy for parts inaccessible with pad.
Once dry it is an extremely hard finish. I have no scientific testing
results but I have the feeling it is the hardest finish you can get
this side of two-part epoxies or 2-part polyurethane finishes.
I am intrigued by another writer's advice to put a little milk in the
can to reduce bubbles. Would like to hear from others who have
experimented with this.
Jack
PS: Note I have no E-mail service.
BRADSTRUM
In article <royko-ya02358000...@news.magic.ca>,
paul royko <ro...@astral.magic.ca> wrote:
>>
>
>The only downside is that it doesn't add the rich colour to light-coloured
>woods. But, that can be fixed by staining first. But, this can also be a
You can also give it a coat of shellac first.
Todd Bradstrum
John Paquay
In article <5gq6lr$1...@news2.cais.com>, sum...@nowhere.com says...
>
>
>I am intrigued by another writer's advice to put a little milk in the
>can to reduce bubbles. Would like to hear from others who have
>experimented with this.
>
>Jack
I tried this with Hydrocote and couldn't discern any difference. I also
heard that adding a small amount of mineral spirits would help. It
didn't.
Maybe that de-foamer stuff they sell for carpet cleaning machines?
--
John Paquay
j...@physics.purdue.edu, j...@belex.mdn.com
http://www.physics.purdue.edu/~jep/cshop.html
----------------------------------------------------
Without my wings you know I'd surely die...
--Kansas, Icarus (Wings of Steel)
----------------------------------------------------
Henry Douglas
sum...@nowhere.com wrote:
>
> Pleco...@Fish.Net wrote:
>
> >On 18 Mar 1997 07:27:22 GMT, "Mike Fairleigh" <mi...@sky.net> wrote:
>
> >>I'm considering using Diamond to finish a white ash easel for my daughter.
> >>Not because it's "safe" for kids (all modern finishes are, once cured), but
> >>because the only place
>
> snip
> >>Mike
> >>mi...@sky.net
> >>
> >>
>
> I've also used gallons of this stuff, spraying & brush. As others
> have said, bubbles are the problem. I have had great success using
> the felt pads sold in home improvement stores for applying latex or
> other paints to walls. Just get one marked "for smooth surfaces".
> Stir your can carefully to not agitate. Apply with the pad, have a
> foam brush handy for parts inaccessible with pad.
>
>
> can to reduce bubbles. Would like to hear from others who have
> experimented with this.
>
> Jack
>
lid of the can after you load the brush with the product. Another way
of introducing bubbles is by shaking the can or stirring too rapidly.
Yet another way of introducing bubbles is by over brushing or brushing
both ways.
Ideally, you stir the can slowly from the bottom up towards the top of
the can. Note, you only have to stir the satin and the semi-gloss
because the flattening agents settle to the bottom of the can.
Next, to load your synthetic brush, or foam brush, dip the brush maximum
of 1/3rd bristle length into the product. Bring the brush straight up,
quick snap down with the wrist to shake off the excess. Don't tap
against the rim of the can or wipe along the rim of the can. Flow the
product only one way on your project and overlap the brush strokes by
one half each time. The product has self levellers in it to help it
flow out evenly. This product is very forgiving and will give you a
long lasting durable finish.
If you do get bubbles, add 1 teaspoon of milk to the quart can or two
tablespoons to a gallon. The lactose in the milk will stop the bubbling
action. Stir the milk in GENTLY, not rapidly. This information was
given to me by a Flecto sales rep.
By the way, they now have come out with a new EXTERIOR Diamond Elite
Varathane and will be in stores around the end of the month.
Hope this helps some of the gang in this newsgroup.
Henry
Henry Douglas
Varathane products. You take a chance on delamantion of the top coats.
Henry
David B. Goldstein
BRADSTRUM
In article <333273...@sympatico.ca>,
I'll have to tell Mike Dresdner that the next time I go to one of
his seminars. I saw him at the Chicago Woodworking show last autumn
and he specifically recomended this combination for both wood floors
and articles of fine woodworking. I believe that he also recommended
urethane over shellac in his book too. Is Verathane different than
other polyurethane? If so, I then stand corrected - otherwise that's
my story and I'm sticking to it.
Todd Bradstrum
Henry Douglas
it says and I quote: Varathane finishes are not recommended over zinc
sterate based sanding sealers, stearate wood fillers, shellac, fresh
lacquer or linoleum floor.
I just happened to have the brochure in front of me when I got into the
newsgroup.
Henry
Jim Rosenau
I saw a note on Varathane's Diamond Finish and can add this:
We tested it, and several similar products, on fir, oak and pine, both with
and without stains. None added the richness we have come to like on top of
bare wood. So we are staining first. You can use oil-based polyurethane as
the first coat to get the old amber-hue.
We tried Zar, Zarathane and Sikkens' water-based urethanes and settled on
Zar because it brushes on thicker, yeilding better a build. With
Varathane's product, I had to put it on VERY thin to keep it from running
and always needed three coats.
stev
In article <01bc3a4f$6f4bd780$a41f...@jmr.btw.com>, j...@btw.com says...
>
>I saw a note on Varathane's Diamond Finish and can add this:
>
>We tested it, and several similar products, on fir, oak and pine, both with
>and without stains. None added the richness we have come to like on top of
>bare wood. So we are staining first. You can use oil-based polyurethane as
>the first coat to get the old amber-hue.
>
>We tried Zar, Zarathane and Sikkens' water-based urethanes and settled on
>Zar because it brushes on thicker, yeilding better a build. With
>Varathane's product, I had to put it on VERY thin to keep it from running
>and always needed three coats.
I put it down over a few coats of watco. The watco brings out the color,
especially in cherry. Now that I said that, someone suggest a good rub on
poly finish I can put on this dresser Im building. Otherwise, maybe Ill
try this Zar, cause like you say, the varathane is runny and brushing it
on vertical surfaces is a pain.
Craw...@rest.com
I prefer three "thin" coats to one or two thick ones, and since you
can recoat in two hours it's not a problem to do all in one day. I'd
have to agree that vertical surfaces are a bitch .
Bob Kopf
In order to get the color I was after, I used alcohol based analine dyes
and pure pigments to get "just the right" color on our birdseye maple
floor. I was origionally planning on just covering this with water based
poly but found that the the direct application of this material (brand
didn't seem to matter) turned my floor GREEN !! Our final soulution also
added that richness I was looking for. Before doing the poly, I sealed the
floor with a 12lb cut of amber shilac. Since my "stain" was alcohol based,
I was able to stain and seal in one afternoon. The next morning I was able
to put the first coat of poly down (after a quick rub with 400 grit
sandpaper-NOT STEEL WOOL when using WATER based poly--you don't want rust.)
I do think after seeing how the floor is wearing that the water based polys
need one more coat then their solvent based relatives. My impression is
that the finish isn't quite as hard. But, I have always waxed on top of
poly before and I didn't have time to do that this job.
In article <01bc3a4f$6f4bd780$a41f...@jmr.btw.com>, "Jim Rosenau"
<j...@btw.com> wrote:
>I saw a note on Varathane's Diamond Finish and can add this:
>
>We tested it, and several similar products, on fir, oak and pine, both with
>and without stains. None added the richness we have come to like on top of
>bare wood. So we are staining first. You can use oil-based polyurethane as
>the first coat to get the old amber-hue.
>
>We tried Zar, Zarathane and Sikkens' water-based urethanes and settled on
>Zar because it brushes on thicker, yeilding better a build. With
>Varathane's product, I had to put it on VERY thin to keep it from running
>and always needed three coats.
>
>
>> >> >
>> >> >The only downside is that it doesn't add the rich colour to
>light-coloured
>> >> >woods. But, that can be fixed by staining first. But, this can also
>be a
>> >> >--
>>
>>
--
Neil Surch
My 2 cents:
If you are like me and you like to spray finishes whenever you can
then this is a product for you. I particularly like the blue color it
makes when the finish is wet, it allows you to monitor the amount you
are putting on. I have sprayed just about every kind of finish but
this is the one I like. Low fumes and toxicity are another factor, I
have used other urethanes mostly oil based they have a use but find
them a bit harder to get a top coat right as I find they don't level
as well as the water based counterparts. It dries fast too!
If shellac was more resistant and durable I would need no other
finish nor would I need a spray gun either.
Neil
Mark Hodges
Doesn't hold up well on floors (the floor finish type, that is), but very
easy to work with.
