Electrical for New Garage/Shop
Weswank sr
I am building a new three car garage that I plan to use as a private
(NonCommercial) woodworking shop. Any suggestions re - wiring for woodworking
equipment will be appreciated.
Many thanks, WES
test
GFCI outlets and still meet code. Use a GFCI in the first outlet of a
string. Any outlet after the first GFCI, when connected properly, will be
protect by that first GFCI. So if you have 3 circuits of outlets on 3
separate breakers....be sure the first outlet on each string has a GFCI.
You will then have all the outlets protected by GFCI and also meet code. At
least, that's the way it is here in Idaho.
Good luck...
--
Kelly Klaas
http://klaasicfurniture.s5.com
South Central Idaho
Weswank sr <wesw...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001210140054...@ng-bg1.aol.com...
John B. Hines
>I am told the outlets in a garage should be (G.F.C.I.) per NEC. Is this true?
Yes. Not to worry, I've not had (or heard of) a problem using them in a
wood shop.
>I am building a new three car garage that I plan to use as a private
>(NonCommercial) woodworking shop. Any suggestions re - wiring for woodworking
>equipment will be appreciated.
There are threads on the PM 66 and motor protection going on, which
cover what to do for dedicated machines.
I run my outlet circuits with 12ga wire, from a 20 amp breaker, over to
a 20amp GFCI, and then run the rest of the outlets in that run (ie the
string over a workbench or on that wall) from the load connection on the
GFCI.
If I ever had one trip on me, it would save a trip to the panel to reset
the GFCI, and it is cheaper than a GFCI breaker. A 20 amp GFCI outlet
also provides a 20amp outlet, if you ever find a plug in power tool that
needs one.
I run conduit, with surface mounted boxes, gives lots of places to hang
little things on a workbench as well.
Run the lights on a different circuit, so that if/when you blow a
breaker or trip the GFCI with a plug in, it doesn't go dark on you.
Joel Corwith
GFIs. The run then continues down the wall. You would also need the GFIs
in 'damp' locations such as an unfinished basement 'workshop'.
Joel. phx
test <> wrote in message ...
> Yes...you are correct. But there is a way to cut down on the cost of the
> GFCI outlets and still meet code. Use a GFCI in the first outlet of a
> string. Any outlet after the first GFCI, when connected properly, will be
> protect by that first GFCI. So if you have 3 circuits of outlets on 3
> separate breakers....be sure the first outlet on each string has a GFCI.
> You will then have all the outlets protected by GFCI and also meet code.
At
> least, that's the way it is here in Idaho.
> Good luck...
> Kelly Klaas
>
>
Have you reviewed the NEC? If you plan on doing the wiring, I suggest a
trip to the library. They have the NEC as well as many how-to electrical
books. There was one, Black&Decker I think, that showed wiring a sub-panel.
Very infomative for my sub-panel addition.
Joel. phx
> Weswank sr <> wrote in message
pat payne
I think its time for me to explain about 220 current and why it is so
different from 110 volt service. First of all, it's twice as big. Secondly,
it'll shock you more. Outside of that, 220 is really two 110 volt lines
coming to your house from different parts of the globe. The up and down 110
comes from the northern hemisphere, and the down and up version comes from
below the equator.
Without trying to get technical, it all boils down to the direction water
flows when it goes down the drain. In the top of the earth, it goes
clockwise, while on the bottom of the earth it goes counter clockwise. Since
most electricity is made from hydro dams, the clockwise flow gives you an up
and down sine wave, while the counterclockwise version gives you a down and
up sine wave. Between the two, you have 220 volts, while either individual
side only gives you 110 volts.
This is particularly important to know when buying power tools- which side
of
the globe did they come from? If you get an Australian saw, for instance, it
will turn backwards if connected to a US generated 110 volt source. Sure,
you can buy backwards blades for it, but that is an unnecessary burden.
Other appliances, like toasters cannot be converted from Australian
electricity to American electricity, with horrible results. I knew one
person who bought an Australian toaster by mistake and it froze the slices
of bread she put in it.
If you wire your shop with 220 and accidentally get two US-generated 110
volt lines run in by accident, you can get 220 by using a trick I learned
from an old electrician. Just put each source into its own fuse box and then
turn one of the boxes upside down. That'll invert one of the two up and down
sine waves to down and up, giving you 220. DO NOT just turn the box
sideways, since that'll give you 165 volts and you'll be limited to just
using Canadian tools with it.
Weswank sr
Regards,
WES
William E. Swank, Sr
weswanksr@aol
Mike Lazzari
>
can be a real pain in the ass when running power tools and can be a real
danger if for instance your router trips the circuit and you forget to
turn it off before resetting the GFCI. The trick when building is naming
things the "right" name. e.g. an "office" may in every physical respect
be the same as a "bedroom" but the code treats them differently.
So don't call it a garage, call it a shop, storage, whatever. If it's
not too late make sure that's what the plans say too.
Mike
Brage Elliott
If you don't mind, I will save this for April Fools day. This will come in
handy for some friends of mine then.
Yes, I will give you full credit.
Thanks
"pat payne" <patp...@home.com> wrote in message
news:PORY5.299171$3E6.3...@news1.alsv1.occa.home.com...
lizr...@wantree.com.au
wrote:
>Electricity explained
>
>
>
>
>I think its time for me to explain about 220 current and why it is so
>different from 110 volt service.
<snip>
Who actually wrote this? Coz Tom Gauldin posted it as if he'd written
it on 4 Dec.
Regards John Riley West Oz
LBailey
had them pop when I was seriously, and I mean seriously, overloading an
abrasive chop saw and then only once.
--
Larry Bailey
Illegitimi non carborundum
Mike Lazzari <wate...@interisland.net> wrote in message
news:3A340DCD...@interisland.net...
pat payne
Joel Corwith
house and oil stains where a hypothetical car could be parked, he'll call it
a garage and require GFIs.
I was told that they needed to be there because the 'next' owner might plug
a weedeater or corded lawn mower in and take care of the lawn while the
sprinkers are running during a rainstorm. If there's a short, they could
get zapped.
Joel. phx
muleb...@my-deja.com
The only thing that I would add to all of that is that when you have a
tool that will operate on 220, run and use 220 on that tool. I know
for sure that you use less electricity to operate and I have been told
that is less of a burden on the motor. I don't know how true this is
but my saw does seem to run smoother since I ran a 220 line for it. It
used to struggle when I did any resawing but it doesn't seem to now.
Chris.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
John B. Hines
>When the inspector sees that big door and the 'shop' is attached to the
>house and oil stains where a hypothetical car could be parked, he'll call it
>a garage and require GFIs.
One thing to keep in mind, nobody is here complaining about GFCI's in
the shop, other than the initial cost.
They work fine, don't cause any usual problems, and add tremendously to
the safety. When one trips, it is for a potentially life threatening
condition.
So spend $10 instead of $1 on one outlet, it is cheap insurance for your
life. The only reason not to do this, is that you are a really cheap
bastard.
CRS
For example, a freezer could be on a non-GFCI circuit.
Doug in Utah
=================
Joel Corwith <sp...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:TPYY5.3349$yC6.6...@news.uswest.net...
Joel Corwith
outlet, however. A wall of open outlets for a shop would be a different
matter. As would be a single outlet with easy access. I don't recall how
they treat the door opener outlet. Talking to your local building
department would be the best bet. But, do your homework first.
Besides, the GFIs don't add 'that' much to the cost (for 2 circuits).
Joel. phx
I went with 4 circuits. 1 dust, 1 compressor, 2 general. Plus the 220
(220, 221, whatever it takes) to the tablesaw.
CRS <> wrote in message ...
Joel Corwith
around the NEC} read like they were complaining about the GFIs. I haven't
had one trip (unnecessarily).
Joel. phx
John B. Hines <> wrote in message ...
ne...@woodworking.com
> GFCI.
> For example, a freezer could be on a non-GFCI circuit.
>
> Doug in Utah
>
> message
> news:TPYY5.3349$yC6.6...@news.uswest.net...
> > When the inspector sees that big door and the 'shop' is
> attached to the
> > house and oil stains where a hypothetical car could be
> parked, he'll call it
> > a garage and require GFIs.
> >
> > I was told that they needed to be there because the
> 'next' owner might plug
> > a weedeater or corded lawn mower in and take care of the
> lawn while the
> > sprinkers are running during a rainstorm. If there's a
> short, they could
> > get zapped.
> >
> > Joel. phx
> >
> > > So don't call it a garage, call it a shop, storage,
> whatever. If it's
> > > not too late make sure that's what the plans say too.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted at www.woodworking.com.
The net's most complete woodworking resource.
lizr...@wantree.com.au
wrote:
>Thanks, but don't credit me for it. I copied it from someone else.
>
Umm, Who!!?
I did a bit of research and have come to the conclusion that Tom
Gauldin wrote it. Other quotes of it give him the credit.
Jon Hartlaub
Do you know if 220 lines have to be GFCI per NEC?
The way I read the NEC code (caveat: 1993 code), GFCI only applies
to 120V branch circuits, not 240V. Any help/advice is
appreciated.
thanks,
Jon
--
Jon Hartlaub / Pharsight Corporation / Suite 200
800 W El Camino / Mountain View CA 94040
voice: 650-314-3865 / fax: 650-314-3810
This email message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended
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Thank you.
John B. Hines
>
>Do you know if 220 lines have to be GFCI per NEC?
>
>The way I read the NEC code (caveat: 1993 code), GFCI only applies
>to 120V branch circuits, not 240V. Any help/advice is
>appreciated.
There is a tremendous lack of hand held 220vac appliances in the USA
needing them. So I'd have to say no, but you have to pay to buy the
code to know. 220 here is almost always a dedicated appliance type of
thing.
Tying the two breakers that make up an edison style circuit, that is
wiring up each half of an outlet pair with a common neutral makes sense,
this forces both sides of a duplex outlet to go dead if one circuit
dies. This I could see being in code, it is a simple tie the two GFCI
breakers together, where they split phases properly as well.
So that would be the answer, get one of the tie kits, if you have a need
to make a second breaker trip dependent on another.
To use a Euro style 220 appliance would probably be a code violation,
unless it was plugged into a power converter unit, usually with its own
transformer, which provides the isolation needed for safety. Said
install would be very expensive to use, requiring much more power than
usual.
It is very uncommon to find even hand tool requiring a 20 amp outlet,
other than large heaters, which again, are usually permanent installs.
Jim Springer
"John B. Hines" <jhi...@enteract.com> wrote in
message
news:on0d3tccvp4j5tbpe...@4ax.com...
> Tying the two breakers that make up an edison
style circuit, that is
> wiring up each half of an outlet pair with a
common neutral makes sense,
> this forces both sides of a duplex outlet to go
dead if one circuit
> dies. This I could see being in code, it is a
simple tie the two GFCI
> breakers together, where they split phases
properly as well.
I don't think that a 110V GFCI will work on one
half of a 220V circuit.
If you have 110V hot and neutral and the other
side of 110V hot and
common neutral, so that from one hot to the other
hot is 220V and from
either hot to neutral is 110V and you use 110V
GFCI on the two circuits
and then combine the circuits for a 220V appliance
by wiring to the two
hots the GFCI will trip. It will also trip if you
plug a 110V appliance into
both of the 110 circuits and turn them on at the
same time.
GFCI works by monitoring current in the hot and
the neutral, if they are
not equal it trips. The hot wire and the neutral
must always stay
balanced. In a 220 circuit there is no current on
the neutral.
I had to add GFCI's to a kitchen once that had
been wired this way.
Did some head scratching trying to figure out why
the GFCI's popped
when the toaster turned on, but only when making
coffee. The plugs
were on opposite hots with a common neutral, split
off from the
220 for the stove.
Jim Springer
Kevin P. Fleming
work with either 110 or 220 (or both) loads downstream of the breaker. Just
make triple-sure it's labeled as 110/220, not just 220...
"Jim Springer" <jim_sp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:918onu$a6a$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...