Hole spacing
Paul
out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area. Let's say I
have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure that? My
daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home design
programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those programs that
knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
--
Paul
Swingman
This will do the same thing for you:
http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/SlatCalculation.xls
I wrote this one to give me slat/spindle spacing for Arts and Crafts
furniture projects, but it will work for holes, and fence posts if
necessary.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
dpb
"Evenly spaced" how, precisely?
6"-2*(1/4") - 6*(3/4") --> only 5.5"-4.5" = 1" total space left between
holes...is that what you really intend?
An even number evenly spaced would be half the distance from the middle
to each of the first; and odd number would have the midpoint of one in
the middle of the length.
It's not difficult but need more definition of the actual layout desired
methinks; this doesn't sound like a useful arrangement even having no
clue what the application is...
--
Swingman
I forgot to mention: In Excel, right click on C7|Format Cell| and choose
your desired fraction. I use 1/16
The last time it was used before it was uploaded years ago, someone
obviously changed the fraction denominator.
dadiOH
Overkill. Easy if you just draw 6 holes on a piece of paper, just basic
math.
6 holes = 7 non-hole spaces needed
6" - (1/4 + 1/4) = 5 1/2" for holes after accounting for 2 outside non-hole
spaces
6 * 3/4 = 18/4 = 4 1/2" of space occupied by holes
5 1/2 - 4 1/2 = 1" of non-hole space of the 6 holes
1"/ 5 remaining non-hole spaces = 1/5 inch between holes.
So...
1. Draw a horizontal line
2. Mark a hole center at 1/4 + (3/4/2) which = 5/8
3. Mark additional centers at 3/4 + 1/5 from preceding center mark
4. Drill holes
Note: with dimensions like that it is unlikely you will wind up with 1/4" as
a border for the last hole.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
willshak
> Paul wrote:
>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
>> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
>> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you
>> figure that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those
>> cheap home design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use
>> one of those programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>
> Overkill. Easy if you just draw 6 holes on a piece of paper, just basic
> math.
>
> 6 holes = 7 non-hole spaces needed
>
> 6" - (1/4 + 1/4) = 5 1/2" for holes after accounting for 2 outside non-hole
> spaces
>
> 6 * 3/4 = 18/4 = 4 1/2" of space occupied by holes
>
> 5 1/2 - 4 1/2 = 1" of non-hole space of the 6 holes
>
> 1"/ 5 remaining non-hole spaces = 1/5 inch between holes.
>
> So...
>
> 1. Draw a horizontal line
>
> 2. Mark a hole center at 1/4 + (3/4/2) which = 5/8
>
> 3. Mark additional centers at 3/4 + 1/5 from preceding center mark
>
> 4. Drill holes
>
> Note: with dimensions like that it is unlikely you will wind up with 1/4" as
> a border for the last hole.
>
>
>
I hate math. :-)
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
Swingman
> Paul wrote:
>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
>> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
>> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you
>> figure that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those
>> cheap home design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use
>> one of those programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>
> Overkill. Easy if you just draw 6 holes on a piece of paper, just basic
> math.
>
> 6 holes = 7 non-hole spaces needed
>
> 6" - (1/4 + 1/4) = 5 1/2" for holes after accounting for 2 outside non-hole
> spaces
>
> 6 * 3/4 = 18/4 = 4 1/2" of space occupied by holes
>
> 5 1/2 - 4 1/2 = 1" of non-hole space of the 6 holes
>
> 1"/ 5 remaining non-hole spaces = 1/5 inch between holes.
>
> So...
>
> 1. Draw a horizontal line
>
> 2. Mark a hole center at 1/4 + (3/4/2) which = 5/8
>
> 3. Mark additional centers at 3/4 + 1/5 from preceding center mark
>
> 4. Drill holes
>
> Note: with dimensions like that it is unlikely you will wind up with 1/4" as
> a border for the last hole.
Using my spreadsheet will get you within 1/64". Which should be well
within "not visually objectionable" range.
Due to the displayed granularity/rounding error of Excel spreadsheet:
Format Cell C7 = "as hundreds"
S= 5 1/12"
W= 3/4"
n= 6
x= 14/100 or roughly 9/64"
Starting with the left edge of the first hole at 9/64" from the left
border, you will be 1/64" off, or 5/32" between the right edge of the
sixth hole and the right hand border.
Swingman
> S= 5 1/12"
^^
S= 5 1/2" NOT 5 1/12"!! Damn typo fingers!
Doug Miller
Well, this *is* basic math: all you need is simple arithmetic (addition,
subtraction, multiplication, and division). What complicates this one is the
use of a measuring system that's approximately a thousand years old.
You have a total of 6" less two 1/4" borders = 5 1/2" to put the holes in.
Six 3/4" holes take up 6 * 3/4" = 4 1/2" of that 5 1/2", leaving 1" for spaces
between the holes.
Since there are 6 holes, there will be 5 spaces between them. You have 1"
total to make 5 spaces, so each space will be 1/5".
The distance between the centers of the holes will be 3/4" (the width of the
hole) plus 1/5" (the spacing between holes) -- this will be difficult to
measure with tapes or rules marked in inches.
I suggest you choose one of the two options below instead.
Option 1
-----------
Increase the size of the borders by 1/32" to 9/32". This will leave you 5
7/16" to put 4 1/2" worth of holes in, leaving 15/16" to divide among five
spaces between holes.
15/16" divided among five spaces = 3/16" per space -- and *that* you *can*
measure easily. This gives you a distance between centers of 3/4" + 3/16" =
15/16".
So mark the center of the first hole at 9/32" (the width of the border) plus
3/8" (*half* the width of the hole) = 21/32" in from one end. (3/8 = 6/16 =
12/32; 9/32 + 12/32 = 21/32)
Subsequent holes are centered every 15/16" from there:
21/32 + 15/16 = 21/32 + 30/32 = 51/32 = 1 29/32
1 19/32 + 15/16 = 1 19/32 + 30/32 = 1 49/32 = 2 27/32
2 27/32 + 15/16 = 2 27/32 + 30/32 = 2 57/32 = 3 25/32
3 25/32 + 15/16 = 3 25/32 + 30/32 = 3 55/32 = 4 23/32
4 23/32 + 15/16 = 4 23/32 + 30/32 = 4 53/32 = 5 21/32
Option 2
----------
Redo everything in metric. It's SO much easier.
A number of years ago, I was in Toronto on business. Having utterly failed in
my attempts to find a metric tape measure at home, I asked one of the guys I
was working with where I could find a hardware store. He wondered why; I told
him -- and he asked in honest bewilderment what on earth an American would
want with a metric tape measure. My answer was that I'm a woodworker, and
solving problems such as this is FAR easier with measurements in millimeters,
rather than fractional inches -- as you're about to see, too.
It's much easier to find metric tapes in American hardware stores now than it
was in the 1980s. So go buy yourself a tape measure that has dual scales
(inches and millimeters). That will make it easy to see the relationships
between the two systems.
Then remeasure. You will find that:
- your block is 152mm long.
- you want a 6mm border at each end.
- you want to evenly space six 19mm holes.
152mm less two 6mm borders leaves (152mm - 6mm - 6mm) = 140mm.
Six 19mm holes occupy 6 * 19mm = 114mm
You have (140mm - 114mm) = 26mm available for the five spaces between the six
holes, so there will be (26mm / 5) = 5.2mm between each hole. Ignore the
point-two millimeters; you can't measure that fine anyway.
The holes will be centered every (19mm + 5mm) = 24mm.
The first hole should be a distance of 6mm (the width of the border) plus
9.5mm (half the width of the hole -- round it off to 10mm) = 16mm in from one
end of the board.
Subsequent holes are centered every 24mm after that:
16mm + 24mm = 40mm
40mm + 24mm = 64mm
64mm + 24mm = 88mm
88mm + 24mm = 112mm
112mm + 24mm = 136mm
And looky there: the last hole is (152mm - 136mm) = 16mm in from the end, same
as the first one.
Isn't that a lot simpler?
Doug Miller
measurements." This problem is absolutely trivial with metric measurements
(see my other post in this thread).
dadiOH
> Then remeasure. You will find that:
> - your block is 152mm long.
> - you want a 6mm border at each end.
No he doesn't, he wants 1/4" and 6mm doesn't equal that. Close but no
cigar, so much for metric unless you can measure 6.35mm on that tape :)
whit3rd
> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to figure
> out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area. Let's say I
> have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes.
First, locate hole #1 and #6 (mark the centers on the work). Then
connect those centers with a line.
Draw a second line through #1, and mark off six equal spacings on that
second line (any spacing that comes out evenly on your ruler
will do). Adjust a bevel so that one arm is on the secondary
line, and the other arm connects #6 secondary to #6-actual.
Then with that bevel set, trace from the other marks on the secondary
line to the original line.
Doug Miller
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> Then remeasure. You will find that:
>> - your block is 152mm long.
>
>> - you want a 6mm border at each end.
>
>No he doesn't, he wants 1/4" and 6mm doesn't equal that. Close but no
>cigar, so much for metric unless you can measure 6.35mm on that tape :)
Do you *really* think that 0.35 millimeters (less than 14 thousandths of an
inch) is going to be noticeable? Or are you just trying to be argumentative?
Had enough of that from SWMBO this past week, don't need it from you too.
Swingman
I agree ... further compounding the problem is it's unclear whether the
OP really wants to:
"evenly space (six)6- 3/4" holes" in 5 1/2" between the borders.
It that is truly the case, my spreadsheet is correct:
http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/SlatSpreadsheetProofinPudding.jpg - or
3.571875mm between each hole and the borders.
If he want the edge of the circles to touch the 1/4" borders on either
side, he wants 13/64" between the circles with the edges touching the
1/4" borders:
http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/SlatSpreadsheetProofinPudding2.jpg
Ed Pawlowski
"Doug Miller" <dougatmil...@example.com> wrote in message
news:j2p6se$b43$1...@dont-email.me...
My guess is he wants them about "this far in" holding fingers apart about
1/4" or 6.35mm or 4.115 parsecs
Leon
Start first hole center 29/32" from the end. Center each of the
remaining hole 25/32" from the first hole center.
Leon
See pdf in a.b.p.wppdwprking hole spacing.
willshak
You like that 'p' key, huh?
Swingman
That's the same thing my spreadsheet came up with a couple of hours ago,
in about 1/10 and 1/2 seconds. LOL
The question remains ... is it really what the OP is asking for?
He could want the edge of the holes 1/4" from the edge of the 6" board.
Mike Marlow
dadiOH
Just pointing out that metric isn't the be-all and end-all :)
Larry Blanchard
> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
> that?
No math required - just arithmetic :-).
If you want a 1/4" border at each end, the center of each of the end
holes has to be 5/8" (1/4" + 3/8") from its end.
That leaves 4 3/4" between those 2 holes. In that space you have to put
4 more holes with 5 spaces between holes. 4 3/4" divided by 5 gives a
spacing of just over 15/16" (4.75 / 5 = 0.95).
Since that doesn't come out even, you need to take the slop (1/16") and
redistribute it to each end. So instead of the centers of the end holes
being 5/8" from the end, they should be 21/32" from the end.
Or you could just ignore the slop and have one space be 1/16" wider than
the others :-).
I hope you're aware that those holes are only going to have 3/16" of wood
between each pair.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
Larry Blanchard
>>No he doesn't, he wants 1/4" and 6mm doesn't equal that. Close but no
>>cigar, so much for metric unless you can measure 6.35mm on that tape :)
>
> Do you *really* think that 0.35 millimeters (less than 14 thousandths of
> an inch) is going to be noticeable? Or are you just trying to be
> argumentative?
I bought some wood taps and dies once to make some wooden vise screws. I
used a 1" dowel (yes it was 1") for the screw. I cut threads in it and
the hole to receive it with no problem. But the screw wouldn't fit.
Turns out the tap and die were 25mm, not 1" (25.4). So yes, it can make
a difference.
I got a fresh dowel and turned it down to 25mm or a little less.
whit3rd
> whit3rd wrote:
> > On Saturday, August 20, 2011 10:46:19 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
> >> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
> > First, locate hole #1 and #6 (mark the centers on the work). Then
> > connect those centers with a line.
> >
> > Draw a second line through #1, and mark off six equal spacings on that
> > second line (any spacing that comes out evenly on your ruler
> > will do). Adjust a bevel so that one arm is on the secondary
> > line, and the other arm connects #6 secondary to #6-actual.
> > Then with that bevel set, trace from the other marks on the secondary
> > line to the original line.
>
> I hope the OP could follow that - cause I sure couldn't...
It's the compass-and-straightedge method to evenly divide a line
segment: make a second line that is measured off into N equal
bits, connect the Nth mark on second line to the end of the primary
line segment to make a triangle, then (using a bevel in this case
to replicate the angle) by simlar triangles, construct the equally
spaced points on the original line segment. It doesn't really need
any ruler at all (dividers can make equal-size divisions).
Doug Miller
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <j2p48b$rfg$1...@dont-email.me>, "dadiOH"
>> <dad...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>> Then remeasure. You will find that:
>>>> - your block is 152mm long.
>>>
>>>> - you want a 6mm border at each end.
>>>
>>> No he doesn't, he wants 1/4" and 6mm doesn't equal that. Close but
>>> no cigar, so much for metric unless you can measure 6.35mm on that
>>> tape :)
>>
>> Do you *really* think that 0.35 millimeters (less than 14 thousandths
>> of an inch) is going to be noticeable? Or are you just trying to be
>> argumentative?
>>
>> Had enough of that from SWMBO this past week, don't need it from you
>> too.
>
>Just pointing out that metric isn't the be-all and end-all :)
>
error, too, because you're always adding either integers or decimals -- not
mixed fractions.
Doug Miller
hole, tolerances of 0.005" or less can be critical. When you're talking about
a border around something, the difference between 1/4" and 6mm is unlikely to
be important to anyone, or indeed even noticeable.
Steve
> a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes
Here's a way to do it by only actually measuring two points. The rest
is mechaincal division.
SInce you're spacing 3/4' holes within 5 1/2 inches, you've already
defined a 1/4" border on each end. The radius of your hole is 3/8".
Thus, the centerpoint of each outer hole is 5/8" from the edge. Mark
those points.
Now, draw a line though each point, parallel to the ends of the board.
Since you're marking the center points of 4 holes and using the center
point of the other outer hole as your terminus, choose a number easily
divisible by five (like, oh, 7.5 or 10). Lay the zero point of your
ruler on one line. Swing the ruler until your chosen number lies on the
other line you've already drawn.
Then, just mark the correct divisions (1 1/2, 3... or 2,4, 6...) and
you've marked the center points for the other four holes. Draw lines
through those points and parallel to the ends crossing your center
line, and you're done.
You can, of course, tell people how brutal the math was in calculating
those points... but if you wanted to add the same dimension (x2)
outside your row of holes as between each hole, the math is more than I
want to deal with.
Puckdropper at dot
news:32f88309-7872-4281...@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.
com:
>> > First, locate hole #1 and #6 (mark the centers on the work). Then
>> > connect those centers with a line.
>> >
>> > Draw a second line through #1, and mark off six equal spacings on
>> > that second line (any spacing that comes out evenly on your ruler
>> > will do). Adjust a bevel so that one arm is on the secondary
>> > line, and the other arm connects #6 secondary to #6-actual.
>> > Then with that bevel set, trace from the other marks on the
>> > secondary line to the original line.
>>
>> I hope the OP could follow that - cause I sure couldn't...
>
> It's the compass-and-straightedge method to evenly divide a line
> segment: make a second line that is measured off into N equal
> bits, connect the Nth mark on second line to the end of the primary
> line segment to make a triangle, then (using a bevel in this case
> to replicate the angle) by simlar triangles, construct the equally
> spaced points on the original line segment. It doesn't really need
> any ruler at all (dividers can make equal-size divisions).
>
An interesting method. Here's the first hit for a webpage describing
the method: http://www.mathopenref.com/constdividesegment.html
Sometimes geometry is much easier than algebra.
I apologize in advance if the flash app at the top is something
undesired. I don't have flash installed on my system so I can't see it.
Puckdropper
RicodJour
> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to figure
> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure that? My
> daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home design
> programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those programs that
> knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
Equal divisions on a line using a ruler held at an angle. No
calculation required.
http://www.tpub.com/math1/19.htm
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYiDDjpWsuk
Online calculators:
http://www.virginiarailingandgates.com/calculations.asp
There's an app for that:
http://www.gabrioconstruction.com/BalusterPro/Home.html
R
John
> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home
> design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those
> programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>
You don't need math:
Set the ruler (or tape measure) on a diagonal across the piece so that
the 6" mark is even with one end the 0" is on the other end. Mark off 1"
increments on the diagonal. You can also use even multiples of the
spaces needed, say 30" and mark off every 2" for 15 spaces.
John
John
Make that set the 1" mark at the first hole and the 6" mark at the last
hole and the technique will count the number of holes for you.
John
Leon
> Leon wrote the following:
>> On 8/20/2011 4:42 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 8/20/2011 12:46 PM, Paul wrote:
>>>> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>>>> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
>>>> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
>>>> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you
>>>> figure
>>>> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap
>>>> home
>>>> design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those
>>>> programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Start first hole center 29/32" from the end. Center each of the
>>> remaining hole 25/32" from the first hole center.
>>
>>
>> See pdf in a.b.p.wppdwprking hole spacing.
>
>
> You like that 'p' key, huh?
>
Some times the keys on my key board trade places. '~)
Leon
Spread sheet! I dont need no stinking Spread sheet. LOL
I took 6" -1/2" for both borders - 4 1/2" for the holes and ended up
with 1. Divided 1 by the number of spaces, 7, and got .014285" for the
spaces, then I drew it. '~0
Leon
Actually a little less, 5/32"
Leon
> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
> figure out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area.
> Let's say I have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end
> for a border and I want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
> design programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those
> programs that knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>
And you thought this math problem was confusing was fore you asked? ;~)
Leon
Ah hum.... and you thought this math problem was confusing before you
asked...
Mike Marlow
Now that's a method I was not at all familiar with. I didn't get that from
whit3rd's description, but that method would require a lot more description
for me to have understood that.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net
HeyBub
Sure. Tell that to the group that engineered the Hubble Space Telescope
where confusion over metric/proper measurements resulting in the launch of
an almost worthless instrument.
And consider these two standards:
"Meter = 1/10,000,000 of the distance between the North Pole and the Equator
measured along the Prime Meridian." (Alternative definition: "1,650,763.73
wavelengths of the orange-red emission line in the electromagnetic spectrum
of the krypton-86 atom in a vacuum.")
vs
"A pint's a pound the world around."
Now I ask you, which is more practical for your average woodworker?
Han
news:uLednZB_UfsmZM3T...@earthlink.com:
Metric rules. Just like US measurements, if you grew up using one, it
takes a while to get used to the other. STill good to know both, since
otherwise how would you know why plywood comes in sheets of 244 x 122 cm
...
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Pin
"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:sfWdnTePrYKPcs3T...@giganews.com...
each hole.
http://www.seoconsultants.com/charts/inches-decimal/ or 25/32 =
.78125 closest to .7857
Pin
Pin
"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
What is a.b.p.woodworking or a.b.o.woodworking? I look for binaries groups
but see none
Pin
Dave
>What is a.b.p.woodworking or a.b.o.woodworking? I look for binaries groups
>but see none
alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking
Pin
Twayne
Paul <oplh...@gmail.com> typed:
> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and
> I'm trying to figure out how to space holes evenly along
> a center line in an area. Let's say I have a rectulanglar
> block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure
> that? My daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of
> those cheap home design programs. That would be ideal for
> me. Anyone use one of those programs that knows if they
> can be used for that? Thanks.
Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including Sketch-it
or whatever it's called.
HTH,
Twayne`
RicodJour
>
> "A pint's a pound the world around."
>
> Now I ask you, which is more practical for your average woodworker?
I'd rather have the pint.
R
Swingman
RicodJour
wrote:
> Puckdropper wrote:
> > whit3rd <whit...@gmail.com> wrote in
It's also more work than is necessary. The bottom construction isn't
really needed, which means the compass isn't needed either. All that
is needed is the line/angle that connects the free end of the
constructed, uniformly divided line to the free end of the line that
you want to divide.
Replace the constructed line with an already divided measuring device,
like say a ruler, and it's a lot simpler. ;)
R
willshak
If you are using Eternal September, it is a text only newsreader, you
can't get binary newsgroups.
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
Swingman
> Spread sheet! I dont need no stinking Spread sheet. LOL
Getting older each day, I simply got damned tired of rebuilding the
wheel every time I needed to _quickly_, and evenly, space slats between
table or chair legs _without fuss_.
... and without putting the decimal place in the wrong spot. :)
So I sat down, expressed how I came up with a solution algebraically
<one that ALWAYS works, to the decimal point> each time I had to do it,
and in less time that it takes to tell, and put it in a spreadsheet.
It's called making technology work for you ... when you get old enough
to experience old timer's disease, you'll understand, you young
whippersnapper!
<may be sooner than you think with that B'day within a week> :)
EXT
"Doug Miller" <dougatmil...@example.com> wrote in message
news:j2p3km$ndo$1...@dont-email.me...
> In article <j2orv...@news3.newsguy.com>, "Paul" <oplh...@gmail.com>
>>My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to
>>figure
>>out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area. Let's say I
>>have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and
>>I
>>want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure that? My
>>daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home design
>>programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those programs
>>that
>>knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>
> subtraction, multiplication, and division). What complicates this one is
> the
> use of a measuring system that's approximately a thousand years old.
>
> You have a total of 6" less two 1/4" borders = 5 1/2" to put the holes in.
>
> Six 3/4" holes take up 6 * 3/4" = 4 1/2" of that 5 1/2", leaving 1" for
> spaces
> between the holes.
>
> Since there are 6 holes, there will be 5 spaces between them. You have 1"
> total to make 5 spaces, so each space will be 1/5".
>
> The distance between the centers of the holes will be 3/4" (the width of
> the
> hole) plus 1/5" (the spacing between holes) -- this will be difficult to
> measure with tapes or rules marked in inches.
>
> I suggest you choose one of the two options below instead.
>
> Option 1
> -----------
> Increase the size of the borders by 1/32" to 9/32". This will leave you 5
> 7/16" to put 4 1/2" worth of holes in, leaving 15/16" to divide among five
> spaces between holes.
>
> 15/16" divided among five spaces = 3/16" per space -- and *that* you *can*
> measure easily. This gives you a distance between centers of 3/4" + 3/16"
> =
> 15/16".
>
> So mark the center of the first hole at 9/32" (the width of the border)
> plus
> 3/8" (*half* the width of the hole) = 21/32" in from one end. (3/8 = 6/16
> =
> 12/32; 9/32 + 12/32 = 21/32)
>
> Subsequent holes are centered every 15/16" from there:
> 21/32 + 15/16 = 21/32 + 30/32 = 51/32 = 1 29/32
> 1 19/32 + 15/16 = 1 19/32 + 30/32 = 1 49/32 = 2 27/32
> 2 27/32 + 15/16 = 2 27/32 + 30/32 = 2 57/32 = 3 25/32
> 3 25/32 + 15/16 = 3 25/32 + 30/32 = 3 55/32 = 4 23/32
> 4 23/32 + 15/16 = 4 23/32 + 30/32 = 4 53/32 = 5 21/32
>
> Option 2
> ----------
>
> Redo everything in metric. It's SO much easier.
>
> A number of years ago, I was in Toronto on business. Having utterly failed
> in
> my attempts to find a metric tape measure at home, I asked one of the guys
> I
> was working with where I could find a hardware store. He wondered why; I
> told
> him -- and he asked in honest bewilderment what on earth an American would
> want with a metric tape measure. My answer was that I'm a woodworker, and
> solving problems such as this is FAR easier with measurements in
> millimeters,
> rather than fractional inches -- as you're about to see, too.
>
> It's much easier to find metric tapes in American hardware stores now than
> it
> was in the 1980s. So go buy yourself a tape measure that has dual scales
> (inches and millimeters). That will make it easy to see the relationships
> between the two systems.
>
> Then remeasure. You will find that:
> - your block is 152mm long.
> - you want a 6mm border at each end.
>
> 152mm less two 6mm borders leaves (152mm - 6mm - 6mm) = 140mm.
>
> Six 19mm holes occupy 6 * 19mm = 114mm
>
> You have (140mm - 114mm) = 26mm available for the five spaces between the
> six
> holes, so there will be (26mm / 5) = 5.2mm between each hole. Ignore the
> point-two millimeters; you can't measure that fine anyway.
>
> The holes will be centered every (19mm + 5mm) = 24mm.
>
> The first hole should be a distance of 6mm (the width of the border) plus
> 9.5mm (half the width of the hole -- round it off to 10mm) = 16mm in from
> one
> end of the board.
>
> Subsequent holes are centered every 24mm after that:
> 16mm + 24mm = 40mm
> 40mm + 24mm = 64mm
> 64mm + 24mm = 88mm
> 88mm + 24mm = 112mm
> 112mm + 24mm = 136mm
> And looky there: the last hole is (152mm - 136mm) = 16mm in from the end,
> same
> as the first one.
>
> Isn't that a lot simpler?
I used to work designing and creating artwork for business forms. If they
were to be run through a computer printer they had to be designed and
created with precision. I still have a number of forms design rulers that
have scales in various inch units such as 5/32", 5/64", 1/12", 1/6", 1/3",
1/10", 1/5", all the regular multiples of 1/32" common most rulers in
addition to metric. Spacing in typesetter's points where 72 equal one inch,
with scales in units such as 5 pt, 5 1/2 pt, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, and 16
point multiples.
I find that these scales are valuable in woodworking as one can find a scale
to fit any need, plus they are stainless steel and almost indestructible.
Hoosierpopi
It's the compass-and-straightedge method
I recall reading somewhere that you could accomplish this task w/o the
math. It involved drawing a line diagonally through the rectangular
area intended to receive the holes. It was explaining, as I recall,
how to evenly space shelf support pin holes on the interior sides of a
bookshelf.
As I recall. you measured the resulting line and divided it in half at
the middle, then repeated this with the resulting segments on either
side (marking the "center points" as you went along. Then, taking a
square to the edge of the board and through each point along the
diagonal line, made a hash mark at the center of the board. Each of
these would, then be the center of your evenly-spaced holes.
Anyone know of something like this (recalling it from distant memory).
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Huh? What did MKS/FPS have to do with Hubble's mirror shape?
>And consider these two standards:
>
>"Meter = 1/10,000,000 of the distance between the North Pole and the Equator
>measured along the Prime Meridian." (Alternative definition: "1,650,763.73
>wavelengths of the orange-red emission line in the electromagnetic spectrum
>of the krypton-86 atom in a vacuum.")
>
>vs
>
>"A pint's a pound the world around."
Strawman. An inch is defined as 2.54cm.
>Now I ask you, which is more practical for your average woodworker?
The one the tools use. The problem is that we now have both. I can work with
either but where both is required is where the mistakes are made.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
That works for certain number of holes (2^n-1) holes but not for an arbitrary
number of holes. The OP wants six holes.
This problem is essentially the "trisecting the angle" geometry problem, which
has no solution (bisection is possible, but an arbitrary number is not).
RicodJour
<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 07:27:36 -0500, "HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Sure. Tell that to the group that engineered the Hubble Space Telescope
> >where confusion over metric/proper measurements resulting in the launch of
> >an almost worthless instrument.
>
> Huh? What did MKS/FPS have to do with Hubble's mirror shape?
It doesn't. That's one of them there scientific old wives' tales, as
related by our resident old wife.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_Space_Telescope#Origin_of_the_problem
R
Doug Miller
The problem there is clearly not due to the use of the metric system, but to
trying to mix the two.
>
>And consider these two standards:
>
>"Meter = 1/10,000,000 of the distance between the North Pole and the Equator
>measured along the Prime Meridian." (Alternative definition: "1,650,763.73
>wavelengths of the orange-red emission line in the electromagnetic spectrum
>of the krypton-86 atom in a vacuum.")
>
>vs
>
>"A pint's a pound the world around."
>
>Now I ask you, which is more practical for your average woodworker?
Metric.
Try it.
Josepi
about... Doug rules supreme.
---------------
"Doug Miller" wrote in message news:j2pmnm$9uk$2...@dont-email.me...
Totally different context. When you're talking about fitting a shaft into a
hole, tolerances of 0.005" or less can be critical. When you're talking
about
a border around something, the difference between 1/4" and 6mm is unlikely
to
be important to anyone, or indeed even noticeable.
Leon
FARK! Maybe I do need a spread sheet.
Leon
ROTFLA,,,, It bites me in the ass every time! We have been cleaning
dads house out for the last 4 days, 37 years of collecting.
Speaking of Bdays, my neighbor the computer guy's wife used to live in
the same neighborhood as my dad, she lived in a 6 house cu-de-sak that
was the end all to Christmas decorating. Any way her Bday is 8/24.
willshak
Where do we send the BD cards?
Leon
beginning and ending 8/22 and 8/27.
Larry W
trick of using a ruler, selecting a number of arbitrary evenly spaced
markings corresponding to the number of holes needed, then angling
the ruler diagonally across the workpiece (or on a bench where the
workpiece is laying, if necessary) until lines drawn perpendicular to a line
parallel to the holes match up with the selected ruler marks. No
math or arithmetic necessary. Unfortunately easier shown than explained,
but some older woodworking books have pictures of the technique.
--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org
m II
another measurement system to the guy that already has trouble with math!
More practical? A calculator.
Wot and idiot!
----------------
"Doug Miller" wrote in message news:j2rs0i$gmc$1...@dont-email.me...
Metric.
Try it.
----------------
Phil Kangas
"Larry W" <
> wrote in message
> I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned
> (unless I missed it) the old
> trick of using a ruler, selecting a number of
> arbitrary evenly spaced
> markings corresponding to the number of holes
> needed, then angling
> the ruler diagonally across the workpiece (or on
> a bench where the
> workpiece is laying, if necessary) until lines
> drawn perpendicular to a line
> parallel to the holes match up with the selected
> ruler marks. No
> math or arithmetic necessary. Unfortunately
> easier shown than explained,
> but some older woodworking books have pictures
> of the technique.
This method has been mentioned. The problem is
that even though
the hole centers are spaced equally the spaces
between the holes differs.
i.e. The space between the left border and the
first hole as well as
the space between the last hole and the right
border are twice the
space between the other holes. It's up to the OP
to decide if that is
acceptable.
phil k.
Gerald Ross
> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to figure
> out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area. Let's say I
> have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure that? My
> daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home design
> programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those programs that
> knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>
three-holer with a star cutout in the door. No idea how they figured
out how to space the holes.
--
Gerald Ross
Be nice to your kids. They'll choose
your nursing home.
Swingman
That was a damn sight easier to figure out ... just mark the profile of
the biggest ass on a board, add two more just like it using the Sears
catalog as a spacer.
m II
------------
"Gerald Ross" wrote in message
news:FPGdnQR_gefbh87T...@giganews.com...
Larry Jaques
Lengthwise for spacing, widthwise for use, right?
--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson
Bill
Gosh, a small-ass could fall through!!! <ewwwwww!>
Jack Stein
It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't mention it.
Simply draw a line the distance you want, "select" the line with the
select tool (space bar), right click on the line and choose "divide"
from the resultant pop up window. Move the mouse along the line and it
will be divided into whatever number of divisions you want, and based on
the length units you use(window/model info.) I use 1/16th's. The red
dots show on the line, and the distance between the dots is given.
Once you have the right number of dots, click and it puts invisible
markers (invisible until you roll over them) so you can do whatever you
want with them, or just write down the distance and have at it.
For 6 holes in 6 inches you need 7 segments, and each hole will be
55/64's or 7/8ths. I can't see 64ths so 14/16th work fine for me:-)
The bonus is, since you are in a cad program, you can draw up whatever
you want the holes for, and see what it will look like:-)
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
Swingman
> It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't mention it.
Actually, that's where my two photographs came from in the links, and
I'm sure Leon's pdf file on abpw ... :)
Leon
Might want to reread the specifics, the holes have to be 3/4".
Bill
if this has been suggested. But why not build a *paper model* (you don't
need high-power computer software for this problem). Cut out a 6" piece
of paper and some circles (use a marker and color them black if it helps
you see them). Then move them around until it looks right to you and
then tape them in place. Then you have a model which you might use in
any number of ways. I think more things have been built working like
this than by designing with cad/cam software.
Bill
Leon
It would probably be easier to read the OP, It is simple math , no
computer model needed. I only drew the model to prove the easy math.
Jack Stein
Doesn't matter what size the holes are if you want 6 equally spaced
holes in 6 inch length, then the center marks will be the same
regardless of hole size, long as the size fits.
Jack Stein
>>> On 8/21/2011 10:39 AM, Twayne wrote:
>> On 8/23/2011 6:08 PM, Jack Stein wrote:
>>> Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including
>>> Sketch-it or whatever it's called.
>>> It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't mention it.
> I haven't read all of the messages before this one, so please excuse me
> if this has been suggested. But why not build a *paper model* (you don't
> need high-power computer software for this problem).
There are lots of ways to solve this long standing problem, as this
thread has shown. You only NEED one of them.
> Cut out a 6" piece
> of paper and some circles (use a marker and color them black if it helps
> you see them). Then move them around until it looks right to you and
> then tape them in place. Then you have a model which you might use in
> any number of ways.
This would be inaccurate or laborious or, in my case, both.
Particularly in this example where the spacing between the holes is
small, you better cut out your circles accurately.
> I think more things have been built working like this than by designing with cad/cam software.
The reason cad software was invented was to make doing this stuff both
simple, accurate and visually useful. My "cad" software of choice is
Sketchup, and it of course has a simple tool for the job built in, as I
described.
If you have a PC and do woodwork, Sketchup is free and does have a tool
for this, just as Twayne up there suggested.
Eric
"Jack Stein" wrote in message news:j3354f$plo$1...@dont-email.me...
====================
I would definitely use CAD software (Autosketch) for many layout required
jobs in woodworking but not for this simple example / problem.
Just do it on your calculator and then lay a decent 1/10" scaled ruler down
and mark the hole centers. Or convert as closely as possible to fractional
inches or fudge the borders to make it work out.
Note there are many woodworking calculators that can work in inches and
fractions for you, too.
--
Eric
Leon
It does matter, he wants a 1/4" border in addition to the even spacing
and he wants the holes to be 3/4" as opposed to what you stated,
"each hole will be 55/64's or 7/8ths"
And FWIW the holes will have 5/32" between each and the 1/4" border.
Your method equally spaces the holes however it does not provide equal
spacing before and after the first and last hole.
Swingman
> It does matter, he wants a 1/4" border in addition to the even spacing
> and he wants the holes to be 3/4" as opposed to what you stated,
>
> "each hole will be 55/64's or 7/8ths"
>
> And FWIW the holes will have 5/32" between each and the 1/4" border.
>
> Your method equally spaces the holes however it does not provide equal
> spacing before and after the first and last hole.
I still think the OP made that absolutely clear. It's why I provided two
solutions in the form of those two drawings.
Swingman
> I still think the OP made that absolutely clear.
^
DON"T
Fuck ... I give up!
Leon
> On 8/24/2011 12:58 PM, Swingman wrote:
>
>> I still think the OP made that absolutely clear.
> ^
> DON"T
>
>
> Fuck ... I give up!
>
>
Roger, Woolco, and Out!
Mike Marlow
> On 8/24/2011 12:58 PM, Swingman wrote:
>
>> I still think the OP made that absolutely clear.
> ^
> DON"T
>
>
> Fuck ... I give up!
That's funny! Well, not really funny, but humorous. Well, maybe not
humorous, but clever. Well, maybe not so clever, but cute. Oh look -
Swing's "cute"...
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net
Jack Stein
Yeah, you guys are out, but now you got me stuck in Sketchup, dividing
up 6", 5 1/2", 5 1/4" and 4 3/4" lines, 2 different ways...
Thanks...
routerman
Exactly? Six 3/4" holes on a 6" stick equally spaced? Want 1/4" of
stock between tangent of hole and end of stock on both ends?
Then locate hole no.1 with its center 5/8" from either end, (that is
the 1/4" space + 1 radian (3/8") of the hole diameter = 5/8)
That leaves {6" - 2(5/8") =} 4.75" of space to split up 6 ways.
Spacing = L/(N-1), where L = length of drilling space & N=6. So 4.75"/
5 = .95"
Centers for holes = .95"
Now How? Use fence on the drill table; let hole no.1 start its center
at 5/8" from the end of stock. Clamp in place against an end stop.
Scribe nothing; hitting a scribe line = .010" error minimum. (Also
true of lasers, sharp pencils, knife lines or chalk.)
Make an accurate .95" spacer, easiest choice = garden variety
Adustable Parallel.
Drill hole no.1, move stop x .95" (step & repeat), butt work against
new stop position, clamp & drill hole no.2.
Iterate for a total of 6 holes. Tangent of last hole will hit 5/8"
from opposite end of stock; all holes equally spaced
http://patwarner.com/drilling_lessons.html
On Aug 20, 10:46 am, "Paul" <oplho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My math skills are non existent beyond basic math, and I'm trying to figure
> out how to space holes evenly along a center line in an area. Let's say I
> have a rectulanglar block, 6" long ,less 1/4" on each end for a border and I
> want to evenly space 6- 3/4" holes. How do you figure that? My
> daughter-in-law says you can do that in one of those cheap home design
> programs. That would be ideal for me. Anyone use one of those programs that
> knows if they can be used for that? Thanks.
>
> --
> Paul
Larry Jaques
<mmarlo...@windstream.net> wrote:
>Swingman wrote:
>> On 8/24/2011 12:58 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>
>>> I still think the OP made that absolutely clear.
>> ^
>> DON"T
>>
>>
>> Fuck ... I give up!
>
>That's funny! Well, not really funny, but humorous. Well, maybe not
>humorous, but clever. Well, maybe not so clever, but cute. Oh look -
>Swing's "cute"...
<clap, clap, clap>
--
Learning to ignore things is one of the great paths to inner peace.
-- Robert J. Sawyer
Leon
> On 8/24/2011 2:21 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 8/24/2011 1:01 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 8/24/2011 12:58 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I still think the OP made that absolutely clear.
>>> ^
>>> DON"T
>
>>> Fuck ... I give up!
>>>
>> Roger, Woolco, and Out!
>
> Yeah, you guys are out, but now you got me stuck in Sketchup, dividing
> up 6", 5 1/2", 5 1/4" and 4 3/4" lines, 2 different ways...
>
> Thanks...
>
I aim to confuse! LOL
Take a look at my pdf file in abpw
Bill
Yes, working with fractions and decimal numbers is simple if you already
know how to do it. Personally, I think problems like this are perfect
so someone who wants to hone his or her skills--and I mean by using
pencil and paper. I hope the OP makes up more similar problems to solve
for practice. I am willing to assist if requested.
Bill
>
>
> "Jack Stein" wrote in message news:j3354f$plo$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> On 8/24/2011 2:10 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>> On 8/21/2011 10:39 AM, Twayne wrote:
>>> On 8/23/2011 6:08 PM, Jack Stein wrote:
>
>>>> Just about any free CAD 2D program will do that for you including
>>>> Sketch-it or whatever it's called.
>
>>>> It's called Sketchup and I'm surprised Swing and Leon didn't mention
>>>> it.
>
>> I haven't read all of the messages before this one, so please excuse me
>> if this has been suggested. But why not build a *paper model* (you don't
>> need high-power computer software for this problem).
>
> There are lots of ways to solve this long standing problem, as this
> thread has shown. You only NEED one of them.
"Give me a fish and I eat for a day, Teach me to fish and..."
Swingman
>> There are lots of ways to solve this long standing problem, as this
>> thread has shown. You only NEED one of them.
>
> "Give me a fish and I eat for a day, Teach me to fish and..."
Teach me to code fractal geometry and ...
Mike Marlow
No - it goes like this... Light a fire for a man and you keep him warm for
a day. Light a man on fire and you keep him warm for life...
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net
Larry Jaques
Ewwwwwww! You're sick, perverted, and twisted.
No wonder we get along.
--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix
Bill
> On 8/24/2011 9:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>
>>> There are lots of ways to solve this long standing problem, as this
>>> thread has shown. You only NEED one of them.
>>
>> "Give me a fish and I eat for a day, Teach me to fish and..."
>
> Teach me to code fractal geometry and ...
>
What's a matta, fish ain't good enough for you? ; )
Puckdropper at dot
news:b5c61$4e55b2c3$4b75eb81$15...@ALLTEL.NET:
>
> No - it goes like this... Light a fire for a man and you keep him
> warm for a day. Light a man on fire and you keep him warm for life...
>
Teach a man woodworking, and he'll have firewood for life. (Especially if
you buy him a bandsaw.)
Puckdropper
Paul
--
Paul
"Bill" <Bi...@NoSpamPlease.net> wrote in message
news:j324n...@news1.newsguy.com...
This is the way I've been doing it. Most times it's not a big problem, just
wish to learn a faster way. Really would like to learn sketchup. Played with
that for a little bit the other day and got nowhere, course I didn't bother
to read any tutorials.
Paul
Bill
I apologize for being vague above. By "pencil and paper" I meant
arithmetic along with whatever else one needs to abstract/extract from a
picture or diagram. Most of the time, of course, one has to draw his or
her own diagram--and that may be the hardest part. I believe that
learning to work problems like the one featured in this thread is
valuable and will help take one's woodworking to another level.
Practicing is not a waste of time at all. Even if this problem never
shows up again, I promise that another one, having the same flavor, is
just around the corner!
Jack Stein
> "Give me a fish and I eat for a day, Teach me to fish and..."
But if I cut the fish into 6 equal pieces, minus a few inches for the
tail...
Jack Stein
>
>>> Roger, Woolco, and Out!
>> Yeah, you guys are out, but now you got me stuck in Sketchup, dividing
>> up 6", 5 1/2", 5 1/4" and 4 3/4" lines, 2 different ways...
>> Thanks...
> I aim to confuse! LOL
>
> Take a look at my pdf file in abpw
I've been thinking about going with a pay service to get binaries, but
so far, just thinking about it...
Larry Jaques
wrote:
>On 8/24/2011 10:19 PM, Bill wrote:
>
>> "Give me a fish and I eat for a day, Teach me to fish and..."
>
>But if I cut the fish into 6 equal pieces, minus a few inches for the
>tail...
14/16" pieces?
Han
> I've been thinking about going with a pay service to get binaries, but
> so far, just thinking about it...
Looks like you're doing just fine without the binaries, but your curiosity
has been tweaked.
I'd suggest you pay Astraweb $10 for 25 GB of downloads, like I did in
2008. I'm still owed 24 GB of downloads, but then, I hardly ever look at
anything other than abpw.
Bonus is the great retention and reliability of astraweb.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
FrozenNorth
or giganews account is a waste of money unless you are *very* heavily
into downloading multipart binaries and porn.
--
Froz...
The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.
Josepi
fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life!
1--------------
"Bill" wrote in message news:j34dh...@news3.newsguy.com...
What's a matta, fish ain't good enough for you?
2----------
Swingman wrote:
Teach me to code fractal geometry and ...
3------------