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Mortises and tenons that meet in a corner
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Greg Guarino
Mar 20, 2015, 1:32:38 PM3/20/15
to
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WPUu7fFmjLo/VQxWVF1CfcI/AAAAAAAAAHI/rR4bsE5jcUU/w1118-h534-no/tenons.jpg
The drawing shows a through tenon and a blind tenon that meet (or nearly
so) inside a leg.
Questions:
How deep is deep enough to make a mortise and tenon joint useful?
Are there other strategies to deal with this situation?
Would you make a blind tenon that was smaller in the vertical dimension,
allowing it to go deeper, through the other tenon?
Would you bother making the blind mortise and tenon joint at all, or
might you choose some other kind of joint, since it won't show?
The drawing shows a through tenon and a blind tenon that meet (or nearly
so) inside a leg.
Questions:
How deep is deep enough to make a mortise and tenon joint useful?
Are there other strategies to deal with this situation?
Would you make a blind tenon that was smaller in the vertical dimension,
allowing it to go deeper, through the other tenon?
Would you bother making the blind mortise and tenon joint at all, or
might you choose some other kind of joint, since it won't show?
Leon
Mar 20, 2015, 2:02:03 PM3/20/15
to
On 3/20/2015 12:32 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WPUu7fFmjLo/VQxWVF1CfcI/AAAAAAAAAHI/rR4bsE5jcUU/w1118-h534-no/tenons.jpg
>
>
> The drawing shows a through tenon and a blind tenon that meet (or nearly
> so) inside a leg.
>
> Questions:
>
> How deep is deep enough to make a mortise and tenon joint useful?
>
> Are there other strategies to deal with this situation?
>
> Would you make a blind tenon that was smaller in the vertical dimension,
> allowing it to go deeper, through the other tenon?
If you have the room that is a possibility
> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WPUu7fFmjLo/VQxWVF1CfcI/AAAAAAAAAHI/rR4bsE5jcUU/w1118-h534-no/tenons.jpg
>
>
> The drawing shows a through tenon and a blind tenon that meet (or nearly
> so) inside a leg.
>
> Questions:
>
> How deep is deep enough to make a mortise and tenon joint useful?
>
> Are there other strategies to deal with this situation?
>
> Would you make a blind tenon that was smaller in the vertical dimension,
> allowing it to go deeper, through the other tenon?
>
> Would you bother making the blind mortise and tenon joint at all, or
> might you choose some other kind of joint, since it won't show?
If you move the aprons out closer to the outside of the legs the tenons
> Would you bother making the blind mortise and tenon joint at all, or
> might you choose some other kind of joint, since it won't show?
will go in farther before they meet. I have done this and 45'ed the
ends of the tenons where they meet. Keep in mind that tenons don't have
to be centered, they could be nearer the front of the aprons.
Swingman
Mar 20, 2015, 4:25:38 PM3/20/15
to
On 3/20/2015 12:32 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> How deep is deep enough to make a mortise and tenon joint useful?
There are indeed traditional proportions for M&T joinery that have stood
the test of time, from which you can depart somewhat, to wit:
~ The depth of a stopped mortise should be approximately 3/4 the width
of the leg or stile.
~ The thickness of a tenon is approximately 1/3rd the thickness of the
rail, or the width of the chisel used to cut the mortise that comes
closest to that.
~ A tenon usually runs the entire width of the rail or, when the rail is
unusually wide, a pair of tenons are used (AKA, double mortise and tenon).
> Are there other strategies to deal with this situation?
--
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John McCoy
Mar 20, 2015, 4:55:29 PM3/20/15
to
Greg Guarino <gdgu...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:mehli2$osm$1...@dont-email.me:
> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-
WPUu7fFmjLo/VQxWVF1CfcI/AAAAAAAAAHI/
one, but it's usually determined by whatever you're putting
the mortise into.
For a smallish piece like your's, I'd think a 1/2 inch
tenon would be fine.
> Are there other strategies to deal with this situation?
Well, normally both tenons are blind and meet inside the
leg - both being cut @ 45 degrees on the end like a miter.
> Would you make a blind tenon that was smaller in the vertical
> dimension, allowing it to go deeper, through the other tenon?
No - if I was doing a thru tenon for aesthetic reasons,
I'd just butt the blind tenon to it, as you show.
> Would you bother making the blind mortise and tenon joint at all, or
> might you choose some other kind of joint, since it won't show?
Yes. Mortise and tenon is easy and strong, it's the best
way to attach the rail to the leg. If I was worried about
the strength of the short tenon, I might add a triangular
brace/glue block on the inside (joining the two rails -
it'd have to be notched to clear the corner of the leg).
John
news:mehli2$osm$1...@dont-email.me:
> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-
WPUu7fFmjLo/VQxWVF1CfcI/AAAAAAAAAHI/
> rR4bsE5jcUU/w1118-h534-no/tenons.jpg
>
> The drawing shows a through tenon and a blind tenon that meet (or
> nearly so) inside a leg.
>
> Questions:
>
> How deep is deep enough to make a mortise and tenon joint useful?
Generally you want a longer tenon in preference to a shorter
>
> The drawing shows a through tenon and a blind tenon that meet (or
> nearly so) inside a leg.
>
> Questions:
>
> How deep is deep enough to make a mortise and tenon joint useful?
one, but it's usually determined by whatever you're putting
the mortise into.
For a smallish piece like your's, I'd think a 1/2 inch
tenon would be fine.
> Are there other strategies to deal with this situation?
leg - both being cut @ 45 degrees on the end like a miter.
> Would you make a blind tenon that was smaller in the vertical
> dimension, allowing it to go deeper, through the other tenon?
I'd just butt the blind tenon to it, as you show.
> Would you bother making the blind mortise and tenon joint at all, or
> might you choose some other kind of joint, since it won't show?
way to attach the rail to the leg. If I was worried about
the strength of the short tenon, I might add a triangular
brace/glue block on the inside (joining the two rails -
it'd have to be notched to clear the corner of the leg).
John
Sonny
Mar 21, 2015, 6:38:23 AM3/21/15
to
On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 3:55:29 PM UTC-5, John McCoy wrote:
> > Would you bother making the blind mortise and tenon joint at all, or
> > might you choose some other kind of joint, since it won't show?
>
> Yes. Mortise and tenon is easy and strong, it's the best
> way to attach the rail to the leg. If I was worried about
> the strength of the short tenon, I might add a triangular
> brace/glue block on the inside (joining the two rails -
> it'd have to be notched to clear the corner of the leg).
>
> John
Triangle glue blocks in the inside corners: On some upholstered pieces, I've seen the addition of a screw through the center of the triangle block, into the corner of the leg. I'll sometimes use this addition of a screw, when repairing a damaged/compromised corner, especially one that has powder post beetle damage.
> > Would you bother making the blind mortise and tenon joint at all, or
> > might you choose some other kind of joint, since it won't show?
>
> Yes. Mortise and tenon is easy and strong, it's the best
> way to attach the rail to the leg. If I was worried about
> the strength of the short tenon, I might add a triangular
> brace/glue block on the inside (joining the two rails -
> it'd have to be notched to clear the corner of the leg).
>
> John
Additionally, beyond the subject of this thread: More recently, when repairing powder post beetle damaged corners, and thanks to others, here, I've learned epoxy works great, to rebuild a compromised corner, i.e., a corner weakened/pockmarked with PPB holes. This time of year, here, the larvae, in infected pieces, are becoming active. I just finished an antique caned sofa and two chairs set, that had old damage and present larvae activity. Otherwise, these corners had dowels, not mortise & tenons.
Sonny
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