Diamond Shapening Stones
Glen & Evelyn
stones or the "scary sharp method"? It seems like such a much more
simpler method for only a little more money than the water stones. I'd
like to hear from anybody that has used them and whether they would buy them
again.
--
Glen
Eric Morehouse
use. I use them. I do have water stones and haven't used them in who
knows how many years. I'm not a "gotta spend eight hours sharpening to
get the 'perfect' edge" person. I don't have that time. I keep two kinds
of chisels in the shop. Those I'd pull a nail with if I had to and the
good ones. Both get sharpened the same. I don't use chisels except very
once in a while. I used to turn years ago and always kept a diamond next
to the lathe for a quick one two touch up but I also kept the water
wheel next to the lathe also. I really don't know how one compares to
the other is a taste test but they are plenty sharp enough and I can
still get super clean cuts with the good chisels.
hope this helps,
Eric Morehouse
ELM Woodworks
Steve Knight
diamond stones are far more expensive if you get ones worth buying. Such as
Norton stones. but they are slower then most waterstones and much slower then
good waterstones. If you buy really good waterstones they take very little
maintenance and sharpen faster then anything else out there.
http://www.japanesetools.com/tools/sharpeningstones/sharpeningstones.php a good
set are the shapton 1000 5000 and 12000 these will sharpen your tools faster
then anything else and need flattened far less then any stone I have used.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com
For prices and ordering instructions.
To subscribe to my good deals/beta testing/seconds email list send a email to
gooddeal...@knight-toolworks.com
Subject: subscribe
Larry Jaques
I use a combination of a fine (600-800 grit) diamond
plate to start, then much finer 1200 grit Scary(tm)
paper to finish, and a couple strokes on the strop
to polish. I adore the diamonds for plane irons and
chisels, plus I may get some more profiles in diamonds
to use on my gouges.
Now that I'm finally back into the shop, I just may
find that I'll need to use them more often.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately, the term "Homo Sapiens" is a goal, not a description.
----
http://www.diversify.com Web Design for YOUR Business!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Wayne Cannon
about 1200). You can get water stones to 6000. Diamond stones are less messy
since you don't need the water or oil except for clean them occasionally. --Wayne
Glen & Evelyn wrote:
--
(Change "nospam" to "wcannon" for e-mail)
Steve Knight
>The diamond stones stay flat, but don't come in very fine grades (e.g., beyond
>about 1200). You can get water stones to 6000. Diamond stones are less messy
>since you don't need the water or oil except for clean them occasionally. --Wayne
waterstones come in far finer the 6000. You better use water on your diamond
stones or you will watch them die far faster then they normally do.
mario
Steve Knight wrote:
>
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:07:34 GMT, Wayne Cannon <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
> >The diamond stones stay flat, but don't come in very fine grades (e.g., beyond
> >about 1200). You can get water stones to 6000. Diamond stones are less messy
> >since you don't need the water or oil except for clean them occasionally. --Wayne
>
> waterstones come in far finer the 6000. You better use water on your diamond
> stones or you will watch them die far faster then they normally do.
>
Hi Steve
I am looking into purchasing some 3M lapping film and wondering if you
or anyone on the wreck have any experience with it pro or con for
sharpening edges. There is a current product that I am using that is a
3 sided aluminum extrusion 10" long. The sides are 2" wide with lapping
film psa backed to these faces. We use this to polish the faces
(running surface) of speed skates, or anything else you may want to
polish.
The grits are 40, 30, and 3 micron. The current source for film is
expensive and I was interested in a fourth grit of 15 micron and to
possible use two separate rectangular extrusions instead of the
triangle.
My question is what sizes would be most useful. I like the compactness
of the 10" x 2" stone, but it is much more limited than the traditional
Giant bench stone 2.5" x 11.5". Wondering what sizes of stones do you
or anyone else find most useful in general.
Thanks in advance
mario
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Lyn J. Mangiameli
have to be careful not to gouge into the film and strip the diamonds from the surface,
thus, while very fast cutting, I don't think it is as durable as some other methods. It
is pretty though with all those fine diamonds over the colored mylar.
Lyn
mario
"Lyn J. Mangiameli" wrote:
>
> Jerry Glaser sent me some of this stuff a few months back. It works very well, but you
> have to be careful not to gouge into the film and strip the diamonds from the surface,
> thus, while very fast cutting, I don't think it is as durable as some other methods. It
> is pretty though with all those fine diamonds over the colored mylar.
> Lyn
>
Hi Lyn
The stuff we are using now is aluminum oxide PET film. The diamond
films I did see at the past few SME tool shows, but most were as much
money as the diamond stones which don't suffer from cut through. The
current AL Ox film is much less expensive.
Steve Knight
>
>I am looking into purchasing some 3M lapping film and wondering if you
>or anyone on the wreck have any experience with it pro or con for
>sharpening edges. There is a current product that I am using that is a
>3 sided aluminum extrusion 10" long. The sides are 2" wide with lapping
>film psa backed to these faces. We use this to polish the faces
>(running surface) of speed skates, or anything else you may want to
>polish.
to me 3" wide is great at least 2.5" wide length is not as critical I use 8"
stones and never seen a need for longer really.
I could not tell you about the film for me it would not be cost effective.
mario
The 2.5" wide seems to be very useful. Wider is nice also. At first
look at the new DMT duo sharps had me thinking they were much too wide
at 4" but then I tried them. It was a very nice surface to work with.
For my main application 8" is a bit shorter than Ideal. I do like the
results the film yields and it does it in a hurry. It lasts a
surprisingly long time. Reasonably cost effective considering the
expense of stones and there periodic need for flattening. If I get some
sample made soon I will post the details.
Thanks
mario
Steve Knight wrote:
>
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:19:04 -0600, mario <deba...@taconic.net> wrote:
> to me 3" wide is great at least 2.5" wide length is not as critical I use 8"
> stones and never seen a need for longer really.
> I could not tell you about the film for me it would not be cost effective.
>
Steve B.
http://www.ameritech.net/users/knives/speed.htm
Steve
www.sharpeningmadeeasy.com
Glen & Evelyn
I'm beginning to think that there is no best method as it seems to depend a
lot on personal preference. Waterstones are faster and initially cheaper
but require more maintenance. Diamond stones are more expensive and
perhaps not a fine as waterstone.
I think that I don't yet know what to think about the differences between
diamond and waterstones.
Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D., P.A.
Diamond stones, you can use dry. Water stones have to be kept submerged
unless you want to wait a half hour while they soak.
Steve Knight
>
>I'm beginning to think that there is no best method as it seems to depend a
>lot on personal preference. Waterstones are faster and initially cheaper
>but require more maintenance. Diamond stones are more expensive and
>perhaps not a fine as waterstone.
If you get good waterstones it is about 1 to 2 minutes of work a week. not
exactly a lot of maintenance.
>I think that I don't yet know what to think about the differences between
>diamond and waterstones.
>
diamonds don't really sharpen tools well. they are always cutting. you don't
want that on the finer grits. steel and diamond don't get along and the steel
will wear the diamonds faster then carbide will.
A good set of waterstones will last a lifetime for the finer grits at least. the
course one may need replaced. but the diamonds can wear in a year or two.
Steve Knight
>Diamond stones, you can use dry. Water stones have to be kept submerged
>unless you want to wait a half hour while they soak.
If you want your diamonds to last you better not use them dry. This will
accelerate their as is rapid deterioration. The waterstones I use now you just
splash them with water.
I use up a diamond lap every month. diamonds and steel are not a good combo.
Steve B.
difference between the various stones. It is also in the book
Sharpening Made Easy. Diamonds will cut faster than anything else of
the same grit. Waterstones are the next fastest, and also have finer
grits for truly sharp edges without honing or stropping. A great setup
would be 2 or 3 diamond hones and a 6000 or 8000 waterstone. Use them
all with water.
PS: the finer waterstones do not have to be flattened as often as the
coarse ones.
Steve
www.SharpeningMadeEasy.com <http://www.SharpeningMadeEasy.com>
mario
"Steve B." wrote:
>
> The chart at http://www.ameritech.net/users/knives/speed.htm shows the
> difference between the various stones. It is also in the book
> Sharpening Made Easy. Diamonds will cut faster than anything else of
> the same grit. Waterstones are the next fastest, and also have finer
> grits for truly sharp edges without honing or stropping. A great setup
> would be 2 or 3 diamond hones and a 6000 or 8000 waterstone. Use them
> all with water.
>
> PS: the finer waterstones do not have to be flattened as often as the
> coarse ones.
>
> Steve
> www.SharpeningMadeEasy.com <http://www.SharpeningMadeEasy.com>
>
Hi Steve
I saw one guy at last years show that had CBN stones. Too small a size
for Our applications but he said he was working on larger sizes. I have
worked with CBN wheels on tool steel before and they far out perform
diamond. I will see if there are any large CBN stones at the show in
may.
Do you use the norton water stones or is there others you can recommend.
mario
AndyB
More accurately....
Diamond stones can be stored dry and just sprayed with
a little water when you want to use them. This is still
more convenient than a water stone.
I have decided to take some advice I got in email. I invested
in diamond stones up to the finest they make. For the final
polish (when required) I will probably use 6000 grit sandpaper
as done in "scary sharp". This will give me the fast cutting and
convenience of the diamond plates AND I can just leave the
6000 grit paper glued to by plate glass.
AndyB
"Steve Knight" <ste...@knight-toolworks.com> wrote in message
news:fk849uk5348lvctb4...@4ax.com...
Steve B.
Steve
mario
mario
"Steve B." wrote:
>
> My waterstones came from AMT. I think they are Japanese or Taiwan imports.
>
> Steve
Steve Knight
>The chart at http://www.ameritech.net/users/knives/speed.htm shows the
>difference between the various stones. It is also in the book
>Sharpening Made Easy. Diamonds will cut faster than anything else of
>the same grit. Waterstones are the next fastest, and also have finer
>grits for truly sharp edges without honing or stropping. A great setup
>would be 2 or 3 diamond hones and a 6000 or 8000 waterstone. Use them
>all with water.
You know how many different waterstones are out there? I know for a fact
diamonds are slower I have tested it often. unless you can put them under power
they are not as fast as the right waterstones. Plus they leave deeper scratches
you have to work harder to remove.
it is almost impossible to really compare grits and how they work in cutting
steel. there are just way to many differences.
the coarser the diamond stone the faster it wears. the 220 grit stones wear
really fast.
I am sure my 1000 grit bester waterstone was finer then my 220 DMT but guess
what one cut faster? but the DMT worked for flattening my waterstones before I
wore it out.
Steve Knight
>
>
>"Steve B." wrote:
>
>I saw one guy at last years show that had CBN stones. Too small a size
>for Our applications but he said he was working on larger sizes. I have
>worked with CBN wheels on tool steel before and they far out perform
>diamond. I will see if there are any large CBN stones at the show in
>may.
>
>Do you use the norton water stones or is there others you can recommend.
>
>
I have wondered about them but Just have not tried everything out there. the
laps are fast but only last about 30 irons.
Nortons are only ok.
http://www.japanesetools.com/tools/sharpeningstones/sharpeningstones.php the
shapton waterstones as far as I know are the fastest and least wearing
waterstones out there. the 1000 5000 and 12000 are a good set.
Wayne Cannon
must respectfully disagree with you on the cutting speed of waterstones versus
diamond stones.
My limited experience plus everything I have read on sharpening and on hand
planes says that diamond stones cut faster than waterstones for the same grit.
They still prefer waterstones to either diamond or ceramic for all but the
coarsest grinding, either due to price or the fact that they honed their skills
and preferences before the availability of diamond stones.
However, it is important to note that one country's 1000 grit isn't the same as
another's. A 1000 grit from Japan is considerably coarser than a 1000 grit
from the U.S. This may contribute to the cutting speed debate.
Waterstones are noted for the availability of very fine grit stones, very
uniform grit, and very reasonable prices. Their downside is wearing more
quickly, being messy, and the need to clean up carefully to avoid rust.
Regards,
Wayne
Steve Knight wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:19:28 GMT, "Steve B." <st...@bottorff.com> wrote:
>
>
>>The chart at http://www.ameritech.net/users/knives/speed.htm shows the
>>difference between the various stones. It is also in the book
>>Sharpening Made Easy. Diamonds will cut faster than anything else of
>>the same grit. Waterstones are the next fastest, and also have finer
>>grits for truly sharp edges without honing or stropping. A great setup
>>would be 2 or 3 diamond hones and a 6000 or 8000 waterstone. Use them
>>all with water.
>>
>
> You know how many different waterstones are out there? I know for a fact
> diamonds are slower I have tested it often. unless you can put them under power
> they are not as fast as the right waterstones. Plus they leave deeper scratches
> you have to work harder to remove.
> it is almost impossible to really compare grits and how they work in cutting
> steel. there are just way to many differences.
> the coarser the diamond stone the faster it wears. the 220 grit stones wear
> really fast.
> I am sure my 1000 grit bester waterstone was finer then my 220 DMT but guess
> what one cut faster? but the DMT worked for flattening my waterstones before I
> wore it out.
>
>
--
Wayne Cannon
easy with diamond stones and they will last a lot longer. --Wayne
Steve Knight wrote:
> ...
> it is almost impossible to really compare grits and how they work in cutting
> steel. there are just way to many differences.
> the coarser the diamond stone the faster it wears. the 220 grit stones wear
> really fast.
> I am sure my 1000 grit bester waterstone was finer then my 220 DMT but guess
> what one cut faster? but the DMT worked for flattening my waterstones before I
> wore it out.
>
>
--
mario
Has anyone tried the DMT Dia-Sharp stone. This one is solid plate with
continuous diamond coating.
mario
Rabbie
Course/Medium, and a Silicon Casrbide Coarse/Medium, I am seriously looking
into diamond stones for speed. I would consider a grinding type setup but I
also want portability.
I am trying to choose between:
DMT Duosharp
DMT Diasharp
EZE-Lap (whatever the continuous diamond surface is called)
I have read Lee and Botteroff on the subject of diamond sharpening tools
(both incredibly helpful books). I understand the polycrystaline diamonds
of EZE-Lap wear quicker. What I don't understand is do they sharpern as
well as DMT's mono before being worn? I also would like know what is the
expected life of a poly v. mono.
Even if I become convinced to buy mono, I do not know which is better -
continuous or perforated (DMT's Duo v. Dia). If I am not one to be troubled
by periodic cleaning of the continuous type, do I have an issue with them?
Price-wise it seems the Duo are the better buy since you always get two
grits in one purchase. Duo's also have more grit sizes available than Dia
and EZE-Lap.
I would want to sharpen kitchen knives, pocket knives, plane blades, and
chisels.
- DD
mario <deba...@taconic.net> wrote in message
news:3C962607...@taconic.net...
Steve Knight
> hand planes says that diamond stones cut faster than waterstones for
> the
same
> grit.
> They still prefer waterstones to either diamond or ceramic for all
but
> the
> coarsest grinding, either due to price or the fact that they honed
their
> skills
> and preferences before the availability of diamond stones.
I sharpen so many irons a week it is not even funny. I have worn out diamond
stones and diamond laps like you have not believed. As it is impossible to
really compare grits it is not a easy thing to figure out.
But using a DMT 200 grit and a bester 1000 grit waterstone I can compare them.
The diamond stone is courser and will cut the waterstone fast. It leaves far
courser marks on the steel so it has to be courser too. But my 1000 grit
waterstone is faster. And since it leaves a better surface it speeds things up
in that department too.
The problem is diamonds don't work with steel. They work great with carbide
stone glass or whatever. But they suck with steel it dulls them fast.
If I use diamond laps on my Makita the yare really fast. But I wear one out
after 30 plane irons.
> Waterstones are noted for the availability of very fine grit stones,
very
> uniform grit, and very reasonable prices. Their downside is wearing
more
> quickly, being messy, and the need to clean up carefully to avoid
rust.
>
My stones now wear very slowly. They are in a tub and I have no mess from them
at all. A towel takes care of any rust issues.
I sharpen at least 10 plane irons a week usually more. I use the fastest method
I can. If diamonds were faster I would use them in a heartbeat. But they are not
and they are not cost effective besides.
Steve Knight
>Diamond stones are susceptible to rapid wear with too much honing pressure. Go
>easy with diamond stones and they will last a lot longer. --Wayne
>
they wear just using them to sharpen steel. I bet the wear rate is 10 times
higher then say using them for stone or carbide.
no professional sharpener uses diamonds to sharpen steel it just is not a good
way to go. the diamonds wear prematurely no matter what you do.
If diamonds stones did not wear much and were fast I would use them for th
basics no problem. I use the fastest and most practical methods to sharpen as I
do a hell of a lot of sharpening.
Steve Knight
wrote:
>I have a similar question. After using Arkansas medium, Norton
>Course/Medium, and a Silicon Casrbide Coarse/Medium, I am seriously looking
>into diamond stones for speed. I would consider a grinding type setup but I
>also want portability.
they may be faster then your current setup but they will not last as long. for
real world use there are oil stones scary sharp and waterstones.
diamonds are not cost effective to sharpen steel with as they wear I bet 10
times faster sharpening steel over carbide and such. I have worn out several. I
wear out a diamond lap with 30 or so plane irons.
ceramic stones are really slow and small.
the norton stones if you want diamonds are the way to go. they are the best
quality out there. but if you want speed then you want these
http://www.japanesetools.com/tools/sharpeningstones/sharpeningstones.php a set
of shapton waterstones 1000 5000 and 12000. these are the fastest and least
wearing waterstones I have found. So far it is the fastest way to sharpen I
have found. If I find anything faster I will use it as I make my living selling
planes and they all come sharpened.
Larry Jaques
up pixels to the effect:
>Has anyone tried the DMT Dia-Sharp stone. This one is solid plate with
>continuous diamond coating.
I have two diamond stones and much prefer the DMT over the
EZElap of the same grit, fine. (600)
----------------------------------------------------------------
* Blessed are those who can * Humorous T-shirts Online
* laugh at themselves, for they * Comprehensive Websites
* shall never cease to be amused * http://www.diversify.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
Praising Jesus
sharpening to make much difference in either case. However, there seems
something amiss in the explanations given. First, diamonds don't wear-out.
They are harder than the thing you are sharpening. That means one of three
things has to happen. First, the crystalline structure might be fracturing
changing the effective grit size and reducing it's ability to cut material.
Second, the substrate which holds the diamond in place may be breaking down
causing you to lose grit, so there is continually less and less cutting
surfaces available. Third, even though diamond is harder than steel,
continuous erosion occurs at the cutting edge due to micro-fractures which
eventually results is an "apparent" rounded edge that ceases to cut. Now,
both option one and two would be affected by pressure and impact during use,
which means a users technique would be critical in obtaining maximum
performance and that poor technique could cause the method to fail
prematurely because of these factors. The third option seems unlikely. I
have used diamonds for years to crush grind aluminum oxide grinding wheels.
A substance far harder and more abrasive than steel and diamonds do not
easily erode. I would think it more likely that factors one and two are at
fault.
That doesn't mean that diamonds are better. As I said, I am not qualified to
say. I just mean that given the materials, diamonds aren't "wearing out", it
appears that it is more likely the techniques need to be modified to
maximize use of the diamond. Perhaps also, the combinations of binders,
manufacturing and finishing of the diamond tools needs to be changed for
woodworking tools and things endemic to that environment. For example, the
hardest of steels, treated to their hardest conditions, appear "gooey" to a
diamond matrix. That's why in machining metals, we seldom use diamonds
directly on steel. Not because the diamond wears out, but because it gums up
the matrix, is not easily cleaned and generates a lot of heat. In fact, in
metal working, the problem is just the opposite. Diamonds do not wear out
fast enough to be useful in machining steel. We use a highly friable (that
means something that breaks apart easily) material like aluminum oxide for
grinding the steel so that a fresh cutting edge is continuously being
exposed as the wheel breaks down. We form shapes in the aluminum oxide with
diamonds, because the aluminum oxide does not gum up the diamonds.
If your diamond stones are wearing out, you should have someone check and
see if the stones are just clogged, if the substrate has broken loose and
caused you to lose you diamonds, or if the diamonds are shattering meaning
they are being abused through improper technique.
Again, I'm not saying diamonds are better or worse than waterstones - I
simply don't know - I'm just saying what you've said about diamonds doesn't
seem to hold true to how they work.
---Mike
"Steve Knight" <ste...@knight-toolworks.com> wrote in message
news:hpfd9ukoh91uj9e3r...@4ax.com...
Rabbie
I bought a DMT fine/course yesterday. I tried it on a chisel with good
(quick) results. I've yet to try a waterstone. They are next on my list of
stones to try. I like to take my stones to mother-in-laws and take care of
her kitchen knives. Because of the need for water, tray, and occasional
trueing, I've held out on waterstones.
I get many different opinions on the diamond stones. One guy told me I'd
give them to my grandson and he would continue to use them. And I've heard
by several they wear fast as you've said. Unfortunately, my net worth is
now $100 less, but I soon will have my own 0.02 to contribute to the
discussions.
I've been less than successful locating Norton diamond stones. Any
suggestions?
Also, regarding the quick wearing down of diamond stones, do the coarser
stones wear faster than finer? vice-versa? Have you tried monocrystaline
diamond stones like the EZE-Lap? If so, what do you think of them?
- R
Steve Knight <ste...@knight-toolworks.com> wrote in message
news:b1gd9u4sd43mil169...@4ax.com...
Cliff Stamp
> I understand the polycrystaline diamonds of EZE-Lap wear quicker. What I
> don't understand is do they sharpern as well as DMT's mono before being
> worn?
Pretty much yes.
> I also would like know what is the expected life of a poly v. mono.
I have not done any controlled testing of the two, but did wear out a couple
of Ez-Lap hones and all my DMT's are still running fine (two 8" benchstones,
3 diafolds and two rods). As for the hole issue, I thought DMT only made
them with holes. If I had the choice I'd get them without the holes for a
faster cut (more surface), they clean really easy so I would not be
concerned about loading.
However back to your question of speed of metal removal, a x-coarse Japanese
waterstone with some lapping SiC compound will easily out cut an x-coarse
DMT hone many times to one. That is what I use for any shaping and just use
the DMT's for finishing work.
--
Cliff Stamp
sst...@physics.mun.ca http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/
The one unforgivable sin, the offence against one's own integrity,
is to accept anything at all simply on authority -- Maureen Johnson Long
Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm. -- Publilius Syrus
Rabbie
http://store.knife.com:8080/Catalog/WebCatalog.acgi$search?template=DetailNe
w.htm&cart=-1195590009&eqskudata=NT-DMT-D6C
You might check DMT's web site. I believe these guys are available in 10 x
3 in.
After all that has been said by Steve Knight, yourself, and others, I will
pursue the waterstones next.
-R
Cliff Stamp <sst...@kelvin.physics.mun.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.4.05.102031...@kelvin.physics.mun.ca...
mario
I am with steve on this one. I have worn out several Diamond stones.
Remember most of the stones we are talking about are the cheapest
diamond tools made. They are all (EZElap, DMT, Norton ...Etc..) coated/
plated substrates. They all are considered temporary abrasives. If you
want a durable diamond abrasive it would be diamond powder mixed into a
sintered metal matrix as in some stone cutting equipment.
With that said, diamond is ideally suited for non ferrous metals and
many other hard materials. No one in the metal cutting industry worth
there salt would recommend it as a first choice for cutting steel. Does
it work? Yes, but it is not better than many other methods. If you
want correct super abrasive for steel, CBN (cubic boron nitride) is what
is currently being recommended.
For what ever reason the diamond bench stones cutting speed slow up
drastically after break in. I get much faster cutting from ALox or SiC
stones on 65 Rc steel blades. This is even more apparent on stainless
/nickel tool alloy steels.
mario
Steve Knight
wrote:
>I am not qualified to know which is better because I do not do enough
>sharpening to make much difference in either case. However, there seems
>something amiss in the explanations given. First, diamonds don't wear-out.
>They are harder than the thing you are sharpening. That means one of three
>things has to happen. First, the crystalline structure might be fracturing
>changing the effective grit size and reducing it's ability to cut material.
>Second, the substrate which holds the diamond in place may be breaking down
>causing you to lose grit, so there is continually less and less cutting
>surfaces available. Third, even though diamond is harder than steel,
>continuous erosion occurs at the cutting edge due to micro-fractures which
>eventually results is an "apparent" rounded edge that ceases to cut.
well yes this is true but in the real world all it means is they don't cut as
well. I have been told by a couple of pros that the carbon in the steel leaches
the carbon out of the diamonds so they are softer and fracture faster.
Steve Knight
>Hi Praising (is that your first name)
>
>I am with steve on this one. I have worn out several Diamond stones.
>Remember most of the stones we are talking about are the cheapest
>diamond tools made. They are all (EZElap, DMT, Norton ...Etc..) coated/
>plated substrates. They all are considered temporary abrasives. If you
>want a durable diamond abrasive it would be diamond powder mixed into a
>sintered metal matrix as in some stone cutting equipment.
but even high quality diamonds and mounting don't help. I tired some expensive
diamond laps and never got any more wear out of them then the 30.00 off of ebay.
Steve Knight
>I bought a DMT fine/course yesterday. I tried it on a chisel with good
>(quick) results. I've yet to try a waterstone. They are next on my list of
>stones to try. I like to take my stones to mother-in-laws and take care of
>her kitchen knives. Because of the need for water, tray, and occasional
>trueing, I've held out on waterstones.
yes it is quick now but just wait (G)
>I get many different opinions on the diamond stones. One guy told me I'd
>give them to my grandson and he would continue to use them. And I've heard
>by several they wear fast as you've said. Unfortunately, my net worth is
>now $100 less, but I soon will have my own 0.02 to contribute to the
>discussions.
>
If you want a bunch of worn out diamonds and are willing to pay shipping just
give me your address (G)
>I've been less than successful locating Norton diamond stones. Any
>suggestions?
http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/norton.htm
has the best prices.
>Also, regarding the quick wearing down of diamond stones, do the coarser
>stones wear faster than finer? vice-versa? Have you tried monocrystaline
>diamond stones like the EZE-Lap? If so, what do you think of them?
>
the courser wear far faster then the finer do. the cheeper stones like the ez
lap really wear fast.
Steve B.
Steve Knight
>waterstone with some lapping SiC compound will easily out cut an x-coarse
>DMT hone many times to one. That is what I use for any shaping and just use
>the DMT's for finishing work.
I found out this one too. Plus the diamond stones leaves the steel deeper
scratched so you have to work harder to remove the scratches.
Steve B.
>I have been told by a couple of pros that the carbon in the steel leaches
>the carbon out of the diamonds so they are softer and fracture faster.
>
These "pros" did not study their physics. The carbon atoms in diamond
crystals are bound much too tightly to be released into a steel matrix
at any temperature below 2500 degrees.
Wayne Cannon
I certainly don't have the experience you have. I've just been scouring the
literature and taking classes on sharpening -- so that's where my information
comes from. Waterstones were recommended pretty uniformly by several sources,
and that's what I'm using. The only other recommendation I've received for
sharpening plane irons is the sandpaper-on-glass approach. The only
recommendation for using diamond stones was for coarse sharpening and
flattening soles and the backs of irons -- separate from flatenning
waterstones, that is.
What do you know about ceramic stones? I've never seen any large enough to
sharpen plane irons. How do they compare with waterstones?
I understand that the "wear" problem with diamond stones is not from the
diamonds themselves, but from the nickel substrate in which they are embedded.
I also read (for the first time) that there are two grades of diamond stones --
the significantly more expensive monocrystalline diamond stones, and the less
expensive ones (I don't know their descriptive name -- polycrystalline maybe?).
I don't know what the advantage of the higher-grade diamonds are -- improved
speed, improved wear, improved uniformity?
Again, I also read that diamond stones must be used with a light touch,
otherwise they wear quite rapidly.
Regards,
Wayne
Steve Knight wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:19:28 GMT, Wayne Cannon <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Diamond stones are susceptible to rapid wear with too much honing pressure. Go
>>easy with diamond stones and they will last a lot longer. --Wayne
>>
>>
> they wear just using them to sharpen steel. I bet the wear rate is 10 times
> higher then say using them for stone or carbide.
> no professional sharpener uses diamonds to sharpen steel it just is not a good
> way to go. the diamonds wear prematurely no matter what you do.
> If diamonds stones did not wear much and were fast I would use them for th
> basics no problem. I use the fastest and most practical methods to sharpen as I
> do a hell of a lot of sharpening.
>
>
--
Steve Knight
>After all that has been said by Steve Knight, yourself, and others, I will
>pursue the waterstones next.
I wish they did last. I was pretty disappointed in how short a lifespan my
diamond laps have on my makita. they cut really fast in this situation and they
are very accurate. but I only get about 30 or so plane irons out of one. it
still cuts but it gives a slight curve on the iron that just gets worse.
I have tried laps that had 100 mesh grit (far courser then 220 grit) to 600
grit. the 100 wears very fast and the 600 worked but clogged easily. I now use
260 mesh for the bulk of my work. I also spend 60.00 on them every two months or
a bit less.
Bob N
Steve Knight <ste...@knight-toolworks.com> wrote in message > I found out
this one too. Plus the diamond stones leaves the steel deeper
> scratched so you have to work harder to remove the scratches.
>
Good point, Steve. I was amazed at how much more coarse the 600 grit
diamond stone is compared to the 600 grit sandpaper I use for SS. It took
at least 10 minutes just to get past that level as I sharpened a chisel last
night.
So I use the diamond stone for coarse work, like cleaning up new tools,
fixing nicks, and re-establishing the bevel and then use paper 600-2000 grit
for honing.
The DMT was definitely NOT the best $80 I've ever spent.
Bob
danz
abrasive grit rating systems some long time ago. In the Old Tools
list, if I remember correctly. And apparently there are several
scales where a given grit rating is not the same as other scales. I
don't recall the details, anymore, but it is important enough to know
that I remembered it so as to *not* compare apples to oranges. A
careful Google search might uncover the specifics. Worth the effort
for a serious sharpener, I would think. HTH...
danz
Larry Jaques <lja...@diversify.com> wrote in message news:<h9id9u8vushabds0k...@4ax.com>...
Steve Knight
>These "pros" did not study their physics. The carbon atoms in diamond
>crystals are bound much too tightly to be released into a steel matrix
>at any temperature below 2500 degrees.
well; they are right about them breaking down fast. so how does it happen?
Steve Knight
> I certainly don't have the experience you have. I've just been
> scouring the literature and taking classes on sharpening -- so that's
> where my information
> comes from. Waterstones were recommended pretty uniformly by several
> sources,
> and that's what I'm using. The only other recommendation I've received
> for
> sharpening plane irons is the sandpaper-on-glass approach. The only
> recommendation for using diamond stones was for coarse sharpening and
> flattening soles and the backs of irons -- separate from flatenning
> waterstones, that is.
Sharpening is something that has religious advocates for sure (G) to me I just
try to find what works best so I don't have to kill myself doing it (G) I was
really disappointed in diamonds. I wore out to many of them to ever recommend
them anymore.
The only way I found them effective is under power but then they don't hold up
at all. Scary harp works fine it is a good way to do the basic back flattening.
This way you don't use a high wearing waterstone or wear out a diamond stone.
> What do you know about ceramic stones? I've never seen any large
> enough to sharpen plane irons. How do they compare with waterstones?
I had a couple of spydero ones when I was learning sharpening. This was when I
blamed the tool and not me (G) they are slower then snot compared to most
methods. I bet they are about the speed of an oilstone. They don't really wear
but that is about it.
>
> I understand that the "wear" problem with diamond stones is not from
> the diamonds themselves, but from the nickel substrate in which they
> are embedded.
>
well the diamonds don't wear they break down. The substrate gets worn more from
flattening waterstones with the diamond stone.
> I also read (for the first time) that there are two grades of diamond
> stones -- the significantly more expensive monocrystalline diamond
> stones, and the less
> expensive ones (I don't know their descriptive name -- polycrystalline
> maybe?).
> I don't know what the advantage of the higher-grade diamonds are --
> improved
> speed, improved wear, improved uniformity?
The mono are all close to the same size so the wear evenly. The cheaper ones
wear unevenly so they wear faster.
>
> Again, I also read that diamond stones must be used with a light
> touch, otherwise they wear quite rapidly.
That’s true but then they are even slower (G)
Steve Knight
but it is important enough to know
>that I remembered it so as to *not* compare apples to oranges. A
>careful Google search might uncover the specifics. Worth the effort
>for a serious sharpener, I would think. HTH...
after trying so many waterstones there can be no real rating for them. I have
tried three different brands of say 1000 grit stones. the first a norton then a
besser and now a shapton. they all seem about the same grit but the besser is
about 4 times faster then the norton and wears far less. the shapton is about 3
times faster then the besser and wears even less. how would any chart compare
them? just because the grit can be compared would never tell you how they
actually work in real world.
In other words ask several people then figure it out yourself (G)
mps
abrasives from ceramics and diamonds to sandpaper and carborundum, and
I think it pays to keep the strengths and weaknesses of each abrasive
in mind. Personally, my experience with diamond hones is somewhat
contrary to Cliff Stamp's. The first diamond hone that I ever had was
a DMT 6" coarse bench hone with the holes in the plate. (Which I'm
convinced are purely a marketing tactic having no actual value.) It
very quickly wore down to approximately the equivalent of a medium
corborundum stone. It's quite possible that I used too much pressure
initially, but what seemed to happen to me was that some of the
abravive came off the matrix. I don't know that the problem was the
diamonds breaking or simply coming off the metal plate. Either way,
it's cutting ability was roughly halved within the first six months of
heavy usage. I compare the performance of that $30 diamond hone to
that of an $8 Carborundum hone that lasts for years and feel that the
diamond looses for coarse or re-profile work. Let's face it, I've got
power tools for that anyway.
Where I feel the diamond hones really come into their own is in the
small pocket sized touchup hones that are just some diamond dust on a
metal plate. There's very little else that fits into a wallet and
lasts as long as some of the fine and medium diamond hone plates. I
don't get very excited over the overly thick DMT so-called pocket
hones. A better pocket hone, IMO, are the really cheap ones such as
those offered by Ragnar at:
http://www.ragweedsforge.com (might be:
http://www.ragweedforge.com (if the other didn't work).
The bottomline is this; the diamond hones will eventually lose some
portion of their abrasiveness, but then, so will all abrasives.
Abrasives, like blades, are made to wear away. The trick is to pick
ones that are shaped, and priced for your need. Personally, I think
diamond bench hones are pretty much a waste, when compared to other
available bench hones. I also don't much see the need for them in
very fine critical honing. For that I like ceramics. But for having
something in your pocket to do touch ups on, there is definitely a
niche for something that works and lasts on such a thin plate as a bit
of diamond dust on a metal plate.
Some of the best fine edges I've ever gotten on woodworking tools have
been off fine sandpaper and crocus cloth taped to glass and metal
plates. But that arrangement is seldom practical, and is often fairly
expensive given the cost of totally disposable abrasives. That's an
approach suitable for something rarely sharpened like a plane, but
probably not the best approach for everyday pocket and kitchen knives.
For kitchen knives, a simple ceramic vee hone is hard to beat for
weekly touchups. For pocketknives the pocket diamond hone is hard to
beat for routine touchups. None of these is a "whole systems" approach
to sharpening, and all will have to be augmented by other means for
blade reprofiling, etc. But each have their merits and niches.
Mike Swaim
MAF
news:3c9808f6...@news.mebtel.net...
> The first diamond hone that I ever had was
> a DMT 6" coarse bench hone with the holes in the plate. (Which I'm
> convinced are purely a marketing tactic having no actual value.)
Me too. After a hefty grinding, the metal dust is all over the stone. I
don't notice it gathering in the holes at all.
But it still does a better job of grinding than a lot of stones I have. A
little water and a couple towel wipes makes it nice and clean too.
Cape Cod Bob
>I was part of a discussion (interested onlooker, actually) about
>abrasive grit rating systems some long time ago. In the Old Tools
>list, if I remember correctly. And apparently there are several
>scales where a given grit rating is not the same as other scales. I
>don't recall the details, anymore, but it is important enough to know
>that I remembered it so as to *not* compare apples to oranges. A
>careful Google search might uncover the specifics. Worth the effort
>for a serious sharpener, I would think. HTH...
Here's a link for comparing various grit rating systems:
http://www.ameritech.net/users/knives/grits.htm
Bob Methelis
Bob-in-NJ on IRC
"He would be wood, if he could, but he can't"
Visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~bobmethelis/
Steve B.
Steve Knight wrote:
>well; they are right about them breaking down fast. so how does it happen?
>
It is not the diamonds but the bond to the steel plate that breaks down,
usually from using too much pressure.
Steve B.
Eric
[snip]> However back to your question of speed of metal removal, a x-coarse Japanese
> waterstone with some lapping SiC compound will easily out cut an x-coarse
What grit lapping compound do you use on the coarse waterstone?
Eric
Steve Knight
>It is not the diamonds but the bond to the steel plate that breaks down,
>usually from using too much pressure.
that I don't think so. I have used cheep ones (where the bond does break down)
to very expensive ones where the bond was intact. that breaks down the bond is
flattening waterstones. as the slurry gets down into the bond and wears it away.
though I did wear a DMT stone out in the middle in two weeks had bare metal but
that was a fluke and the engineer at DMT told me the only way to wear the
substrate is to flatten really coarse waterstones or such on it.
Rabbie
cash appears in my pocket.
I'd like to start with all the suggestions I have seen on the wreck.
Which shapton stone falls into the x-course category? Also, what grit/sieve
SiC do you suggest? And where can it be found?
Is there any advantage to using finer SiC on finer shapton stones?
What about powdered SiC on some kind of substrate like mylar? Have you ever
tried this?
BTW - do the diamond-less DMT's you have laying around serve as good paper
weights? I might pay shipping if I can use them as good paper weights or
sling them for practice with my shotgun. (G)
Steve Knight <ste...@knight-toolworks.com> wrote in message
news:rmre9uk1bmbaqksg8...@4ax.com...
Steve Knight
wrote:
>I am planning on getting the Shapton set you suggest when the next wad of
>cash appears in my pocket.
you will be happy for sure. best investment I have made so far.
>I'd like to start with all the suggestions I have seen on the wreck.
>
>Which shapton stone falls into the x-course category? Also, what grit/sieve
>SiC do you suggest? And where can it be found?
that I am not sure of I do the bulk work with my makita. You can call him and
ask on that.
>Is there any advantage to using finer SiC on finer shapton stones?
it will scratch less deep so you will eat up less stone. or you can flatten the
finer ones with the courser one and just flatten the course one on sandpaper.
>What about powdered SiC on some kind of substrate like mylar? Have you ever
>tried this?
that I have not.
>BTW - do the diamond-less DMT's you have laying around serve as good paper
>weights? I might pay shipping if I can use them as good paper weights or
>sling them for practice with my shotgun. (G)
I chucked them when I moved my shop. now all I have are worn out diamond laps.
they are thin and ugly and usually warped from when I pry them off.
Wayne Cannon
--------------------------------------------
SHARPENING
Grits of Stones and comparison of USA, Japanese, and European system
Stone USA Japan Europe EMERY
JIS grade P grade
Woodcraft Lee
Coarse India 100 150
120
150
180
Medium India 240 280 240
280 360 320
Fine India 320
Washita (Ouchita) 360 600 400 360 1/0
400 500 2/0
Soft Arkansas 500 1000 600 1000 3/0
Hard White Arkansas 700 2000 1100 4/0
800 1200 1200
Hard Black Arkansas 900 4000 1500
1000
1500
2000
2500
However, this is only the begining. Comparisons made across numerous web sites
was even more confusing, because there was a lot of conflicting information.
--Wayne
danz wrote:
Steve Knight
>However, this is only the begining. Comparisons made across numerous web sites
>was even more confusing, because there was a lot of conflicting information.
>
it is not just the grit size it is the way the stones works too. there is no
real way to compare then but by trying them.
Rabbie
be a good test run to see how I like japaneese water stones. These are
great! I will be saving to get the set of Shaptons in the near future. As
you have said, they are the best buy for cost/speed. My diamond still works
after 3 days and 4 tools. I think it will be relegated to near finish work
until I get the 12000 Shapton. I've had a paradigm shift. No longer am I
concerned with cleanliness. Water and black grit will be my companions as
long as the speed and fineness of edge are as much improved as they are with
the water stone.
You mention using a Makita. I am guessing it is the horizontal stone
version with a vertical smaller wheel. Do they have only this one model?
Do you know if it is good for use with chisels and knives as well as plane
irons? I've heard they are a bear to keep true. What is your experience?
Also, I have a friend that wants to pay me to sharpen his jointer knives,
chisels, and plane blades. Any idea what a fair fee is for this service?
Rabbie
Steve Knight <ste...@knight-toolworks.com> wrote in message
news:294k9ugrkf8hhchbh...@4ax.com...
Steve Knight
>Ok. I picked up a King 250/1000 yesterday. At $19.95, I figured it would
>be a good test run to see how I like japaneese water stones. These are
>great! I will be saving to get the set of Shaptons in the near future. As
>you have said, they are the best buy for cost/speed. My diamond still works
>after 3 days and 4 tools. I think it will be relegated to near finish work
>until I get the 12000 Shapton. I've had a paradigm shift. No longer am I
>concerned with cleanliness. Water and black grit will be my companions as
>long as the speed and fineness of edge are as much improved as they are with
>the water stone.
I don't have a mess problem with the stones. I just use a rubbermaid low sided
container that they sit in when I use them.
>You mention using a Makita. I am guessing it is the horizontal stone
>version with a vertical smaller wheel. Do they have only this one model?
>Do you know if it is good for use with chisels and knives as well as plane
>irons? I've heard they are a bear to keep true. What is your experience?
yes that's the one.
http://www.highlandhardware.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/p-021001.html?L+scstore+wbkp3221ff446c44+1016827154
I use it for all of my sharpening. well it is used more for getting the edge
ready for sharpening.
it is not a problem to keep true the delta is a problem. I use it freehand and
have never tried a jig with one.
here are my three makita's
http://www.knight-toolworks.com//web_temp_pics/shop6.JPG
>Also, I have a friend that wants to pay me to sharpen his jointer knives,
>chisels, and plane blades. Any idea what a fair fee is for this service?
that I can't tell you will have a learning curve for sure. but it is usually
charged by hour. jointer knives are usually about 3.00 a inch though I am not
positive.
Neil Williams
news:3C976FA5...@sonic.net...
> What do you know about ceramic stones? I've never seen any large enough
to
> sharpen plane irons. How do they compare with waterstones?
Japan Woodworker has a "ceramic waterstone" which I bought last
year on Steve's recommendation. The one I got is a 1000 grit - the
advantage over a regular waterstone being that it doesn't wear as
quickly.
I also have a ceramic stone that I got prior to the waterstones. I
think was an ultra-fine, whatever the finest grade is you can get. It
cuts slower than the 8000 grit waterstone I got (North Mountain
Blue, I think it is), and is quite a bit smaller. I wouldn't recommend
it, except as a quick touch-up for chisels and other narrow tools.
--Neil
mario
Steve Knight wrote:
>
> it is not just the grit size it is the way the stones works too. there is no
> real way to compare then but by trying them.
>
Hi Steve
Agree! Are the water stones your using aluminum oxide. I have some
coarse ones made in the USA that are aluminum oxide and some that are
made in the EAST that are a silicon carbide. They both cut fast as
hell. The SiC imports are too soft for my applications but a great
value if you need to sharpen very hard steel (above 64 Rc).
I got the new DMT stones. They are called Dia-Sharp. They sent me a
11.5" fine and a coarse to show at the nationals. Nice thick plate with
a very flat grinding surface. Much better than the EZE's flatness.
Looks like a good stone for not much $ (compared to other diamond
stones). Sold them the first few hours there so I did not get a chance
to test them. They are most likely going to work like the other diamond
products. Slow but good on very hard stuff. Tough to sharpen carbide
and the like by hand any other way.
mario
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Rabbie
it was SiC and AlO in combination. What water stones are only SiC? Only
AlO? Now that I think about it, the paperwork could have meant one grit is
SiC and the other is AlO. I would like to know about this. The composition
should be directly related to cutting speed.
-R
mario <deba...@taconic.net> wrote in message
news:3C9F40CF...@taconic.net...
Steve Knight
>Agree! Are the water stones your using aluminum oxide. I have some
>coarse ones made in the USA that are aluminum oxide and some that are
>made in the EAST that are a silicon carbide. They both cut fast as
>hell. The SiC imports are too soft for my applications but a great
>value if you need to sharpen very hard steel (above 64 Rc).
my new stones are a ceramic material don't know what they are. they are the
hardest waterstones I have seen to date
>I got the new DMT stones. They are called Dia-Sharp. They sent me a
>11.5" fine and a coarse to show at the nationals. Nice thick plate with
>a very flat grinding surface. Much better than the EZE's flatness.
>Looks like a good stone for not much $ (compared to other diamond
>stones). Sold them the first few hours there so I did not get a chance
>to test them. They are most likely going to work like the other diamond
>products. Slow but good on very hard stuff. Tough to sharpen carbide
>and the like by hand any other way.
>
I may get one to flatten my 1000 grit waterstone.
mario
Steve Knight wrote:
>
> I may get one to flatten my 1000 grit waterstone.
>
>
Hi Steve
The guy that flattens surface plates for me just uses a 12" square cast
plate and diamond powder. Diamond powder is expensive but it goes a
long way and is readily available in many nice particle sizes.
He sprinkles a bit on the surface of the iron plate and rolls it in with
a big bearing on a stick. Hope you can picture that. The plate cuts
like a new DMT or EZE for 20 minutes or so of spinning this thing around
on a dry marble table.
The iron plate was used to cover a much greater area of stone so I dont
know if something like this would work well for your size stones also.
I would think you could certainly breath new life to your well worn
diamond stones with the loose powder.
Rabbie
-R
mario <deba...@taconic.net> wrote in message
news:3C9F7324...@taconic.net...
Steve Knight
>The guy that flattens surface plates for me just uses a 12" square cast
>plate and diamond powder. Diamond powder is expensive but it goes a
>long way and is readily available in many nice particle sizes.
I have seen that used for lapping plane irons. Never heard of it for stones.
>He sprinkles a bit on the surface of the iron plate and rolls it in with
>a big bearing on a stick. Hope you can picture that. The plate cuts
>like a new DMT or EZE for 20 minutes or so of spinning this thing around
>on a dry marble table.
going around is a good idea for even wear for sure.
>The iron plate was used to cover a much greater area of stone so I dont
>know if something like this would work well for your size stones also.
>I would think you could certainly breath new life to your well worn
>diamond stones with the loose powder.
I have to do something I bought three sheets of 120 grit sheetrock sandpaper and
with two end to end I could not quite get the middle of the stone flat.These
shapton stones are hard (G)
CW
were polishing rocks long before steel.
The traditional way of making a lap is as was described. Pressing loose
abrasive into a cast iron plate with a hardened steel roller. The grit is
imbedded in the cast iron and essentially becomes a "stone". The abrasive
eventually wears out and is then replaced. A system like this would work to
flatten your stones but the diamond powder is rather expensive. If you have
a lapidary near you, they could flatten your stone. They use a similar
system. The lapping machine is kind of like a small tub with a cast iron
plate in the bottom. A slurry of abrasive is added and the rock to be
polished is place on the plate. The whole thing vibrates, thus polishing the
rock. It will get it quite flat. I don't know what they would charge but it
shouldn't be much. The thing runs unassisted so the labor charge isn't much.news:ejsv9ukc7qhf3onuh...@4ax.com...
Mike
>I have to do something I bought three sheets of 120 grit sheetrock sandpaper and
>with two end to end I could not quite get the middle of the stone flat.These
>shapton stones are hard (G)
>
How about a tile saw with a diamond blade? Too rough?
mario
Rabbie wrote:
>
> Would you suggest a source for the diamond powder?
>
> -R
>
Hi Rabbie
Saw it listed in the last flyer from MSC. Common stuff for mold
polishing. I would price ENCO also. Search showed
http://www.deltasupplies.com/diamond.htm
and http://www.crystalite.com/ as sources.
Hope this helps.
Steve Knight
I may just break down and buy a diamond stone for it. it is the fastest method
to do it. the money these stones save me in replacement costs makes buying a
diamond stones not a big deal.
mario
What I do to flatten all my stones, is to take them to my basement floor
with some fine sand or dry. Even with out the added grit the cement
floor is fast. My old floor is starting to smooth out nicely in spots.
I just showed a kid this past weekend on a relatively new side walk
(fresh broom lines) on his badly hollowed norton cystolon (silicon
carbide) stone. Using it without sand we were able to flaten it out
completely in under 3 minutes. Cinder block also works great at this.
I would give this old world technique a try on your hard stones. I did
the glass / grit thing for a while and it was way way too slow.
mario
-
Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D., P.A.
>
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:23:46 GMT, mi...@wood-workers.com (Mike) wrote:
>
> >Steve Knight wrote:
> >
> >>I have to do something I bought three sheets of 120 grit sheetrock sandpaper and
> >>with two end to end I could not quite get the middle of the stone flat.These
> >>shapton stones are hard (G)
> >>
> >How about a tile saw with a diamond blade? Too rough?
>
> I may just break down and buy a diamond stone for it. it is the fastest method
> to do it. the money these stones save me in replacement costs makes buying a
> diamond stones not a big deal.
Wouldn't zircon sanding belts be cheaper, and almost as fast?
Steve Knight
>Wouldn't zircon sanding belts be cheaper, and almost as fast?
I plan on trying a 120 zirconia belt. I can't afford a diamond stone right now.
but I don't want it too course or it eats up too much of the stone.
Steve Knight
>What I do to flatten all my stones, is to take them to my basement floor
>with some fine sand or dry. Even with out the added grit the cement
>floor is fast. My old floor is starting to smooth out nicely in spots.
>I just showed a kid this past weekend on a relatively new side walk
>(fresh broom lines) on his badly hollowed norton cystolon (silicon
>carbide) stone. Using it without sand we were able to flaten it out
>completely in under 3 minutes. Cinder block also works great at this.
>I would give this old world technique a try on your hard stones. I did
>the glass / grit thing for a while and it was way way too slow.
>
I have tried the cinder blocks on a few stones they wear fairly fast though. or
I should say get smooth fast. What I want to try is a fired brick.
Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D., P.A.
>
> >Wouldn't zircon sanding belts be cheaper, and almost as fast?
>
> I plan on trying a 120 zirconia belt. I can't afford a diamond stone right now.
> but I don't want it too course or it eats up too much of the stone.
Same crystal shape as diamond, Mohs 9.5, isn't it?
mario
I saw some where zirconia powder for lapping. I would think it would be
very good as a lapping media on a cinder block or fired brick lapping
surface. Black beauty also works very well for lapping stone. It does
change the surface color of the stone slightly.
mario
mario
They do wear quick. They also have tons of pockets for holding your
lapping compound and are real cheap. Last year I collected several
blocks for free from folks that were never going to use them. Not sure
if a clay chimney liner would hold on to enough grit to make them fast
cutting. I would check your local mason supply for broken sections.
Worth a try. Porous fired brick big enough for the job? Sounds
perfect.
mario
-
Steve Knight
>> I plan on trying a 120 zirconia belt. I can't afford a diamond stone right now.
>> but I don't want it too course or it eats up too much of the stone.
>
>Same crystal shape as diamond, Mohs 9.5, isn't it?
it's stuff stuff for sure.
Steve Knight
>Hi Steve
>
>They do wear quick. They also have tons of pockets for holding your
>lapping compound and are real cheap. Last year I collected several
>blocks for free from folks that were never going to use them. Not sure
>if a clay chimney liner would hold on to enough grit to make them fast
>cutting. I would check your local mason supply for broken sections.
>Worth a try. Porous fired brick big enough for the job? Sounds
>perfect.
I had wanted to try using a grit but never got around to it. on the way to work
i will get a free broken on at the borg.