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The Platforms For My Vehicle Are Complete - (Carpeted 2 x 4's)
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DerbyDad03
Jul 11, 2021, 7:23:46 PM7/11/21
to
Over the past 4 generations of the Honda Odyssey, the floor has been
getting more and more bumpy and unlevel. It gets harder to load stuff
with each new 5 year cycle. This is the interior of my 2017 EX-L, with the
rear bench stowed in the floor and the 2nd row seats removed.
It's hard to tell from the pictures, but the floor behind the front seats is
5" lower than the rear of the cargo area. It's not sloped either - it's
stepped. First there's a 3.5" drop, then another 1.5" - It's a real pain to
load compared to the 2 previous generations which were at least flat
front to rear.
Looking towards the rear:
https://i.imgur.com/MckLWvF.jpg
Looking towards the front:
https://i.imgur.com/2OFiPPN.jpg
The 2018's and beyond are even worse.
This is what built for my 17...
The rear platform will stay in the Ody 99.99% of the time (roughly). We
rarely ever use the 3rd row split bench, which stows in the floor. In this
picture, the 2nd row seats are in,
https://i.imgur.com/pZUiomv.jpg
I left room for side wall protection when needed.
https://i.imgur.com/ETiTWdv.jpg
I made an opening for the rear heat duct that's in the floor.
https://i.imgur.com/tT70FYq.jpg
This front platform can be dropped into place when the 2nd row seats
are removed.
https://i.imgur.com/P6GYd56.jpg
As for the infamous carpeted 2 x 4's, the one on the right was the first
of six, the one on the left was the last. Practice helps.
https://i.imgur.com/7f0S3By.jpg
getting more and more bumpy and unlevel. It gets harder to load stuff
with each new 5 year cycle. This is the interior of my 2017 EX-L, with the
rear bench stowed in the floor and the 2nd row seats removed.
It's hard to tell from the pictures, but the floor behind the front seats is
5" lower than the rear of the cargo area. It's not sloped either - it's
stepped. First there's a 3.5" drop, then another 1.5" - It's a real pain to
load compared to the 2 previous generations which were at least flat
front to rear.
Looking towards the rear:
https://i.imgur.com/MckLWvF.jpg
Looking towards the front:
https://i.imgur.com/2OFiPPN.jpg
The 2018's and beyond are even worse.
This is what built for my 17...
The rear platform will stay in the Ody 99.99% of the time (roughly). We
rarely ever use the 3rd row split bench, which stows in the floor. In this
picture, the 2nd row seats are in,
https://i.imgur.com/pZUiomv.jpg
I left room for side wall protection when needed.
https://i.imgur.com/ETiTWdv.jpg
I made an opening for the rear heat duct that's in the floor.
https://i.imgur.com/tT70FYq.jpg
This front platform can be dropped into place when the 2nd row seats
are removed.
https://i.imgur.com/P6GYd56.jpg
As for the infamous carpeted 2 x 4's, the one on the right was the first
of six, the one on the left was the last. Practice helps.
https://i.imgur.com/7f0S3By.jpg
ads
Jul 11, 2021, 9:46:17 PM7/11/21
to
especially appropriate for the black versions. You just made that use
possible ;-)
Brian Welch
Jul 12, 2021, 8:17:43 AM7/12/21
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k...@notreal.com
Jul 12, 2021, 7:19:10 PM7/12/21
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the Honda Oddity.
Sonny
Jul 12, 2021, 7:41:45 PM7/12/21
to
On Sunday, July 11, 2021 at 6:23:46 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> As for the infamous carpeted 2 x 4's, the one on the right was the first
> of six, the one on the left was the last. Practice helps.
>
> https://i.imgur.com/7f0S3By.jpg
It all looks good. Good job.
> As for the infamous carpeted 2 x 4's, the one on the right was the first
> of six, the one on the left was the last. Practice helps.
>
> https://i.imgur.com/7f0S3By.jpg
Sonny
DerbyDad03
Jul 12, 2021, 9:01:28 PM7/12/21
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DerbyDad03
Jul 12, 2021, 9:02:01 PM7/12/21
to
k...@notreal.com
Jul 12, 2021, 11:43:09 PM7/12/21
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On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 18:01:26 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
Only the audio.
DerbyDad03
Jul 13, 2021, 12:11:26 AM7/13/21
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Michael Trew
Jul 13, 2021, 2:01:19 AM7/13/21
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I had a friend do this to the entire passenger side of a Geo Metro
hatchback (front passenger and rear bench seats removed)... the carpeted
platform built held a twin sized camping mattress, so the car became a
mini-camper.
I was tempted to do something similar to my former S10 so I could put
full 4X8 sheets of drywall or plywood in the bed, laying down, above the
wheel wells. Moving onto full-size 8 ft bed trucks solved that dilemma.
J. Clarke
Jul 13, 2021, 7:04:50 AM7/13/21
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On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 02:01:16 -0400, Michael Trew <mt99...@ymail.com>
wrote:
If I was planning on keeping it I would do something like that for my
current econobox, which does not present a flat floor with the back
seats down.
wrote:
current econobox, which does not present a flat floor with the back
seats down.
Michael Trew
Jul 13, 2021, 12:31:40 PM7/13/21
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On 7/13/2021 7:04 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> If I was planning on keeping it I would do something like that for my
> current econobox, which does not present a flat floor with the back
> seats down.
You could always keep it for hauling, to spare the nice vehicle.
> If I was planning on keeping it I would do something like that for my
> current econobox, which does not present a flat floor with the back
> seats down.
DerbyDad03
Jul 13, 2021, 12:57:16 PM7/13/21
to
above the bottom of the hatch opening because it is narrower there, but
once in they sit down on the floor.
It's so close that when I put cardboard on each side to protect the side walls,
the plywood makes contact. Even with every other way they screwed with the
floor over the years, they always left room for 4 x 8 sheet goods.
(I have a trailer, so it's super rare for me to carry full size sheets in the Ody, but
I could. Most times, like when I bought the MDO for the platforms, I broke it
down in Lowe's parking lot so it fit in the Ody without any problem.)
J. Clarke
Jul 13, 2021, 5:01:44 PM7/13/21
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On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 12:31:38 -0400, Michael Trew <mt99...@ymail.com>
wrote:
Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
the fuse out and leave it out.
That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
wrote:
device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
the fuse out and leave it out.
That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
DerbyDad03
Jul 13, 2021, 5:55:05 PM7/13/21
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k...@notreal.com
Jul 13, 2021, 6:07:29 PM7/13/21
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On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 21:11:24 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
The hardware that makes noise. Audio amplifiers, specifically. Some
of the other guys did the radios, I think. The center stack, screen
and stuff, was done by a different company.
of the other guys did the radios, I think. The center stack, screen
and stuff, was done by a different company.
k...@notreal.com
Jul 13, 2021, 6:16:06 PM7/13/21
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the automotive industry. The Ford Sync-1 was done by them and it's so
bad there were several class-action suits against them. I have one in
my truck and it's absolute junk. I don't use any of the "advanced"
features (phone isn't even paired with it).
OTOH, the Sync-3 in my wife's '19 Mustang is perfect, by comparison.
It's easy to use and actually does what it's supposed to do without
losing its mind every time you get in the car. Of course, I know who
designed Sync-3. ;-)
Leon
Jul 13, 2021, 6:17:35 PM7/13/21
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problem unless YOUR's is defective. And the solution is to replace the
defective part.
k...@notreal.com
Jul 13, 2021, 6:18:39 PM7/13/21
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Markem618
Jul 13, 2021, 6:20:48 PM7/13/21
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On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 17:17:27 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
Ford dropped the alliance with Microsoft a number of version of Sync
ago. It was crap.
wrote:
ago. It was crap.
DerbyDad03
Jul 14, 2021, 10:13:49 AM7/14/21
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Can you find the guy that coded this "feature" and smack him upside
the head for me?
Audio Source: Bluetooth, upper screen displays the song info:
https://i.imgur.com/XEW6MmK.jpg
Activate the right turn signal and the upper screen displays the side camera image:
https://i.imgur.com/0Bk4lbQ.jpg
When the turn signal turns off, the upper screen displays a *different* song info
screen, showing the song title twice. It then flashes the song title that's in the lower
box. Once per second for about 20 seconds. After that, it returns to the original
song info screen:
https://i.imgur.com/8gnPeIM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/eR9tpj8.jpg
What possible purpose could that serve?
Michael Trew
Jul 14, 2021, 11:34:09 AM7/14/21
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On 7/13/2021 5:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
> the fuse out and leave it out.
>
> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
I'll try not to get started on a car rant again, but stuff like that is
> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
> the fuse out and leave it out.
>
> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
my reasoning for driving 90's and back vehicles. I like the old stuff
without computers and touch screens!
Michael Trew
Jul 14, 2021, 11:37:05 AM7/14/21
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On 7/13/2021 6:18 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> Ah, a switchable penny.
Haha, that took me a minute.
I once bought a house with 20 and 30 amp fuses in the old fusebox...
most of them had pennies behind them. ONE knob and tube circuit covered
the first floor lighting, both main bedrooms upstairs, the bedroom
lighting... then into the kitchen ceiling (addition to the rear of the
house) lighting... THEN to 20 amp wiring for ALL of the kitchen outlets,
THEN to the bathroom and lighting... I think that was the 30 amp with a
penny fuse. Both bedrooms on that circuit had a window A/C. I
literally have NO CLUE how that house didn't burn to the ground.
> Ah, a switchable penny.
Haha, that took me a minute.
I once bought a house with 20 and 30 amp fuses in the old fusebox...
most of them had pennies behind them. ONE knob and tube circuit covered
the first floor lighting, both main bedrooms upstairs, the bedroom
lighting... then into the kitchen ceiling (addition to the rear of the
house) lighting... THEN to 20 amp wiring for ALL of the kitchen outlets,
THEN to the bathroom and lighting... I think that was the 30 amp with a
penny fuse. Both bedrooms on that circuit had a window A/C. I
literally have NO CLUE how that house didn't burn to the ground.
Michael Trew
Jul 14, 2021, 11:38:39 AM7/14/21
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circa 2014 - purchased new), and it has that Microsoft entertainment
thing. Of course, she never uses it, and just drives the car. I assume
that's why it's still "working".
k...@notreal.com
Jul 14, 2021, 12:06:17 PM7/14/21
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On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 07:13:46 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
Does it ever get back to the original state (full screen)? It is odd
behavior. It looks like a selection panel with nothing to select.
behavior. It looks like a selection panel with nothing to select.
k...@notreal.com
Jul 14, 2021, 12:14:21 PM7/14/21
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On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:38:38 -0400, Michael Trew <mt99...@ymail.com>
Well, it's still "working" because she's never tried to use it. It's
designed broken.
designed broken.
k...@notreal.com
Jul 14, 2021, 12:20:49 PM7/14/21
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On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:34:08 -0400, Michael Trew <mt99...@ymail.com>
wrote:
No, I've never had wiring fail in old cars or door posts break off,
then the bandaid (weld) attempting to put the humpty car back
together, also failed within days. Fit and finish of those cars was
*perfect* and they never rusted out before they were paid for (when a
36mo loan was long). Yep, the good ol' days.
wrote:
then the bandaid (weld) attempting to put the humpty car back
together, also failed within days. Fit and finish of those cars was
*perfect* and they never rusted out before they were paid for (when a
36mo loan was long). Yep, the good ol' days.
DerbyDad03
Jul 14, 2021, 1:00:25 PM7/14/21
to
"normal" song info screen.
> It is odd behavior.
Sure is. There are other functions that change what is displayed on the upper
screen, like making a phone call, and they all cause the flashing song title behavior.
> It looks like a selection panel with nothing to select.
More fun stuff:
When you get a text on your smartphone, you get a message on the upper screen that
tells you who it's from and you can have the audio system read it to you. That's fine.
However, when you *send* a text, you get the same "From" message and the
same option to have it read. e.g. if I send a text to Kevin, the screen will tell me
that I *received* a text from Kevin and ask me if I want it read. It doesn't go away
until you choose Ignore, which requires a dial turn to select Ignore and then
a button press.
Have you ever parked, wanted to turn off the engine but continue listening to what's
playing on the audio system? You have to leave the van in gear and press the Start/Stop
button. The engine will shut off and the audio system will stay on (ACC mode). Now you
can put the van in Park...if you remember. ;-)
How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
it again to shut the van off.
Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
I hate it because it's putting extra wear and tear on systems. I always let it come
to steady state in Run mode because I don't want to turn it off midway through
it's "start-up procedure". PITA just to use the ACC mode.
That's just some of the weird stuff that the infotainment system does. Terrible
design, coding, etc.
Leon
Jul 14, 2021, 2:31:49 PM7/14/21
to
Leon
Jul 14, 2021, 2:34:34 PM7/14/21
to
I will take the computers any day.
In 1980 Oldsmobile introduced the ECM. Suddenly V6 engines were out
performing v8's and getting better gas mileage.
Leon
Jul 14, 2021, 2:35:46 PM7/14/21
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Markem618
Jul 14, 2021, 3:12:03 PM7/14/21
to
On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 13:31:41 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
My wife has a 2012 Fusion, so I have experienced the wonderful Sync by
Microsoft. It has that Microsoft feel of way many controls buried in
sub menus.
Microsoft. It has that Microsoft feel of way many controls buried in
sub menus.
k...@notreal.com
Jul 14, 2021, 4:51:36 PM7/14/21
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On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 10:00:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
Meanwhile you drive into a tree.
>Have you ever parked, wanted to turn off the engine but continue listening to what's
>playing on the audio system? You have to leave the van in gear and press the Start/Stop
>button. The engine will shut off and the audio system will stay on (ACC mode). Now you
>can put the van in Park...if you remember. ;-)
I hate start/stop. I rented a car with S/S and it just about drove me
crazy. I'd never buy one. There should be a way to disable it. I
sure wouldn't buy one. SWMBO has a push-to-start but it just acts
like a key (with the dongle in her purse).
>How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
>van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
>it again to shut the van off.
>
>Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
It was a PITA to design to, also.
>I hate it because it's putting extra wear and tear on systems. I always let it come
>to steady state in Run mode because I don't want to turn it off midway through
>it's "start-up procedure". PITA just to use the ACC mode.
>
>That's just some of the weird stuff that the infotainment system does. Terrible
>design, coding, etc.
Seems so. It can be done right but obviously Honda (and their tier-1
supplier) didn't bother to bother.
>Have you ever parked, wanted to turn off the engine but continue listening to what's
>playing on the audio system? You have to leave the van in gear and press the Start/Stop
>button. The engine will shut off and the audio system will stay on (ACC mode). Now you
>can put the van in Park...if you remember. ;-)
crazy. I'd never buy one. There should be a way to disable it. I
sure wouldn't buy one. SWMBO has a push-to-start but it just acts
like a key (with the dongle in her purse).
>How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
>van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
>it again to shut the van off.
>
>Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
It was a PITA to design to, also.
>I hate it because it's putting extra wear and tear on systems. I always let it come
>to steady state in Run mode because I don't want to turn it off midway through
>it's "start-up procedure". PITA just to use the ACC mode.
>
>That's just some of the weird stuff that the infotainment system does. Terrible
>design, coding, etc.
supplier) didn't bother to bother.
k...@notreal.com
Jul 14, 2021, 4:53:36 PM7/14/21
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On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 13:31:41 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
As I said earlier, there are enough who have to start several
class-action law suits. I have one in my truck. Absolutely useless
for anything other than an AM/FM radio. Even the Aux-In doesn't work.
Forget USB or Bluetooth.
class-action law suits. I have one in my truck. Absolutely useless
for anything other than an AM/FM radio. Even the Aux-In doesn't work.
Forget USB or Bluetooth.
DerbyDad03
Jul 14, 2021, 5:49:22 PM7/14/21
to
is a Start/Stop button. *Sort of* acts like a key with the fob nearby.
https://i.imgur.com/2SunVXR.jpg
How do you get in and out of ACC mode in her car? You know, to listen to the radio
without the engine running.
> >How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
> >van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
> >it again to shut the van off.
> >
> >Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
> Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
> It was a PITA to design to, also.
Scott Lurndal
Jul 14, 2021, 6:41:07 PM7/14/21
to
to park facing downslope.
However, the dash mounted 'push/stop' buttons just trigger a series of
functions in the EC; mine works flawlessly.
J. Clarke
Jul 14, 2021, 7:04:46 PM7/14/21
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On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:34:08 -0400, Michael Trew <mt99...@ymail.com>
wrote:
In my case it worked out to a "free" commute--the payments on a used
plug-in were less than the cost of gas for the Jeep. To tell you the
truth though, when the thing is behaving it's nice enough that I'm
seriously thinking about plonking down the cash for a Tesla.
wrote:
plug-in were less than the cost of gas for the Jeep. To tell you the
truth though, when the thing is behaving it's nice enough that I'm
seriously thinking about plonking down the cash for a Tesla.
J. Clarke
Jul 14, 2021, 7:06:50 PM7/14/21
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On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:38:38 -0400, Michael Trew <mt99...@ymail.com>
I used to pair my phone with it (the navigation on the thing is
worthless and it's nice to hear an ebook or music on the big speakers)
but every time it craps out it resets the Bluetooth and I finally
stopped bothering to re-pair the phone.
worthless and it's nice to hear an ebook or music on the big speakers)
but every time it craps out it resets the Bluetooth and I finally
stopped bothering to re-pair the phone.
DerbyDad03
Jul 14, 2021, 7:41:30 PM7/14/21
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Question: How do you get in and out of ACC mode? Do you have to leave the
vehicle in gear and use the Start/Stop button? Do you then have to go through
Run mode to turn ACC off?
The Run mode portion is the part that I dislike.
Markem618
Jul 14, 2021, 7:52:17 PM7/14/21
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On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 19:06:43 -0400, J. Clarke
I just use a flash drive for music in the F 150.
Leon
Jul 14, 2021, 8:02:48 PM7/14/21
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We have had that on one of our vehicles since 2012. Love it!!!
When I bought my new F150 that was the first option that was a must have.
>
>
>>> How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
>>> van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
>>> it again to shut the van off.
>>>
>>> Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
>> Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
>> It was a PITA to design to, also.
>
> Aren't almost all newer cars Push To Start? *What* went where all bad ideas went?
>
Leon
Jul 14, 2021, 8:06:02 PM7/14/21
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To go to ACC mode press the button and nothing else. If you depress the
brake petal the engine will start. Just like a vehicle with a keyed
ignition switch. It only works in ACC mode too if you do not depress
the brake pedal.
To switch off, press the switch again, and do not depress the brake pedal.
DerbyDad03
Jul 14, 2021, 9:36:29 PM7/14/21
to
into Run mode. The mode when the vehicle does the lamp test, sets all the relays
to be where they need to be to run the vehicle, turns the HVAC system and blowers
on, and a bunch of other stuff. Basically everything the ECM needs to do to Run the
vehicle except engage the starter. I then have to Press the button *again* to shut the
vehicle down completely.
That's not how it works in a key start vehicle. To turn ACC mode off with a keyed
ignition, you simply turn it off. Move the key from ACC or 1 or whatever the vehicle
uses to designate ACC, to Off. You go from ACC to full off in one step. No Run mode
involved.
I see going through Run mode as a possible cause of premature failure of some
system or another, especially in vehicles that are so dependent on their electronics.
That's why I always pause to let the Run mode reach steady state before pressing the
button again to shut it all down. I'm not comfortable with a quick push-push which
would stop the Run mode startup process. To me, it feels like I'm turning on a computer
and then yanking the power cord before the fans and disk drives are up to full speed. The
ECU is mid-way through it's boot process and the power gets yanked. I wouldn't do that
to a PC so I don't do it to my vehicle.
k...@notreal.com
Jul 14, 2021, 10:41:39 PM7/14/21
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On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 14:49:20 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
No, "Start/Stop" is where the engine shuts off at stoplights and
restarts when you press on the accelerator.
>How do you get in and out of ACC mode in her car? You know, to listen to the radio
>without the engine running.
Actually, I don't know. She doesn't let me drive it. ;-)
engine shutting off at every stoplight.
restarts when you press on the accelerator.
>How do you get in and out of ACC mode in her car? You know, to listen to the radio
>without the engine running.
>
>> >How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
>> >van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
>> >it again to shut the van off.
>> >
>> >Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
>> Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
>> It was a PITA to design to, also.
>
>Aren't almost all newer cars Push To Start? *What* went where all bad ideas went?
"Start/Stop" is no more. For some reason customers didn't like their
>> >How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
>> >van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
>> >it again to shut the van off.
>> >
>> >Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
>> Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
>> It was a PITA to design to, also.
>
>Aren't almost all newer cars Push To Start? *What* went where all bad ideas went?
engine shutting off at every stoplight.
Michael Trew
Jul 15, 2021, 3:00:18 AM7/15/21
to
On 7/14/2021 1:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> Have you ever parked, wanted to turn off the engine but continue listening to what's
> playing on the audio system? You have to leave the van in gear and press the Start/Stop
> button. The engine will shut off and the audio system will stay on (ACC mode). Now you
> can put the van in Park...if you remember.;-)
>
> How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
> van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
> it again to shut the van off.
>
> Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
>
> I hate it because it's putting extra wear and tear on systems. I always let it come
> to steady state in Run mode because I don't want to turn it off midway through
> it's "start-up procedure". PITA just to use the ACC mode.
>
> That's just some of the weird stuff that the infotainment system does. Terrible
> design, coding, etc.
That's awful... I can cut the ignition key and throw the shifter into
> Have you ever parked, wanted to turn off the engine but continue listening to what's
> playing on the audio system? You have to leave the van in gear and press the Start/Stop
> button. The engine will shut off and the audio system will stay on (ACC mode). Now you
> can put the van in Park...if you remember.;-)
>
> How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
> van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
> it again to shut the van off.
>
> Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
>
> I hate it because it's putting extra wear and tear on systems. I always let it come
> to steady state in Run mode because I don't want to turn it off midway through
> it's "start-up procedure". PITA just to use the ACC mode.
>
> That's just some of the weird stuff that the infotainment system does. Terrible
> design, coding, etc.
neutral, and roll to a stop in a parking lot. Throw it back in gear,
and engage parking brake (if it works)... key out, and get moving. Key
can come out sooner if you're stopping in a straight line (wheel locks
up with the key out).
Thank God for my simple cars; I'd lose my mind with all of that madness.
I get irritated enough hopping back into an automatic transmission car
that has to be in "PARK" to remove the key, or "NEUTRAL" to start.
Radio cuts off when you cut the key off; on when the key is on. Nice
and simple!
Michael Trew
Jul 15, 2021, 3:04:21 AM7/15/21
to
On 7/14/2021 6:41 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Well, I used to push my '67 dodge pickup to start it, so long as I remembered
> to park facing downslope.
HAHA, that's a good one. I've gone 3 months on a battery that was bad
> Well, I used to push my '67 dodge pickup to start it, so long as I remembered
> to park facing downslope.
enough that it had to be push started every time.
I have a push-button start car now... the key in my '93 Metro doesn't do
anything when you turn it all the way, so you have to push this fancy
button hacked into the dash board to kick the ignition solenoid on.
Don't bump it when the engine's running, or you'll shear the teeth off
of the flywheel -- or the gears off of the starter - maybe both.
Michael Trew
Jul 15, 2021, 3:05:41 AM7/15/21
to
On 7/14/2021 8:05 PM, Leon wrote:
> If you depress the brake petal the engine will start. Just like a
> vehicle with a keyed ignition switch.
Do you have to depress the brake to start a modern key'd car? I've
> If you depress the brake petal the engine will start. Just like a
> vehicle with a keyed ignition switch.
driven some where the brake must be applied to shift out of park, but
never to start it.
Michael Trew
Jul 15, 2021, 3:07:57 AM7/15/21
to
On 7/14/2021 10:41 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> "Start/Stop" is no more. For some reason customers didn't like their
> engine shutting off at every stoplight.
I couldn't help but to think that those cars are rather inefficient...
> "Start/Stop" is no more. For some reason customers didn't like their
> engine shutting off at every stoplight.
in the manner that, can you think of how fast those starters are going
to wear out? What happens when that technology fails and the car fails
to restart... then you're stranded at the stop light with people laying
on their horns. No thanks, just keep my engine running for a minute.
Michael Trew
Jul 15, 2021, 3:09:15 AM7/15/21
to
Michael Trew
Jul 15, 2021, 3:11:04 AM7/15/21
to
cars rust out that quickly.
BTW, my '75 Dart is still going strong!
Michael Trew
Jul 15, 2021, 3:14:09 AM7/15/21
to
screen every-single-simple-manual-control-is-microprocessor-controlled
madness. I like manual HVAC controls (you can feel the levers operate
as you pull/push switches), manual windows, throttle cable (not wire),
manual everything. Electronic spark control (or "ECM" more recently) is
fine.
Michael Trew
Jul 15, 2021, 3:18:35 AM7/15/21
to
you drive a car like that, yes, I can see how it would save you money.
Me, I'm content with driving my tin can early 90's Geo Metro, and
average 48 MPG (city AND highway) on every tank. I get over 50 MPG when
it's all highway. Yes, ECM controlled, but everything else is manual -
nary another computer or microprocessor to be found.
Pay $500 for the car in one go, and you're set. I get better or equal
gas mileage to hybrid like the Prius. My entire car costs less than the
dealer charges to replace a head light assembly on a Prius.
J. Clarke
Jul 15, 2021, 4:59:57 AM7/15/21
to
On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 03:18:33 -0400, Michael Trew <mt99...@ymail.com>
I forgot the part about where I get to charge it at work on the boss's
dime.
dime.
J. Clarke
Jul 15, 2021, 5:08:53 AM7/15/21
to
On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 03:14:08 -0400, Michael Trew <mt99...@ymail.com>
wrote:
>On 7/14/2021 2:34 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 7/14/2021 10:34 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>> On 7/13/2021 5:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>>>
>>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>>>
>>> I'll try not to get started on a car rant again, but stuff like that
>>> is my reasoning for driving 90's and back vehicles. I like the old
>>> stuff without computers and touch screens!
>>
>> You have to go back to the 70's to avoid computers.
>>
>> I will take the computers any day.
>>
>> In 1980 Oldsmobile introduced the ECM. Suddenly V6 engines were out
>> performing v8's and getting better gas mileage.
>
>I didn't mean ignition control computers. I meant the crazy touch
>screen every-single-simple-manual-control-is-microprocessor-controlled
>madness.
The thing is, once the computer and touch-screen are there, letting
them control everything saves hardware cost. And the programmming can
be done by below-US-minimum-wage labor in India, so it's to the
benefit of the manufacturer to do it that way.
>I like manual HVAC controls (you can feel the levers operate
>as you pull/push switches), manual windows, throttle cable (not wire),
>manual everything. Electronic spark control (or "ECM" more recently) is
>fine.
The thing is the goverment is now requiring electronically controlled
braking and electronic stability control among other things.
wrote:
>On 7/14/2021 2:34 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 7/14/2021 10:34 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>> On 7/13/2021 5:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>>>
>>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>>>
>>> I'll try not to get started on a car rant again, but stuff like that
>>> is my reasoning for driving 90's and back vehicles. I like the old
>>> stuff without computers and touch screens!
>>
>> You have to go back to the 70's to avoid computers.
>>
>> I will take the computers any day.
>>
>> In 1980 Oldsmobile introduced the ECM. Suddenly V6 engines were out
>> performing v8's and getting better gas mileage.
>
>I didn't mean ignition control computers. I meant the crazy touch
>screen every-single-simple-manual-control-is-microprocessor-controlled
>madness.
them control everything saves hardware cost. And the programmming can
be done by below-US-minimum-wage labor in India, so it's to the
benefit of the manufacturer to do it that way.
>I like manual HVAC controls (you can feel the levers operate
>as you pull/push switches), manual windows, throttle cable (not wire),
>manual everything. Electronic spark control (or "ECM" more recently) is
>fine.
braking and electronic stability control among other things.
J. Clarke
Jul 15, 2021, 5:23:39 AM7/15/21
to
On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 03:07:57 -0400, Michael Trew <mt99...@ymail.com>
wrote:
The starters are beefed up to handle the load. The real issue is the
engine bearings--I don't think they have a real fix for that.
wrote:
engine bearings--I don't think they have a real fix for that.
Leon
Jul 15, 2021, 9:49:49 AM7/15/21
to
require the pedal to be depressed to move out of Park.
Leon
Jul 15, 2021, 10:00:00 AM7/15/21
to
On 7/14/2021 9:41 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
Snip
>
> No, "Start/Stop" is where the engine shuts off at stoplights and
> restarts when you press on the accelerator.
Actually on my F150, if YOU stop the vehicle you simply take your foot
off of the brake pedal to restart the engine, that is with normal
start/stop operation.
If you are using adaptive cruise control and the vehicle stops on it's
own and shuts down the engine, you restart by pressing the accelerator
pedal and that also releases the brake.
>
>> How do you get in and out of ACC mode in her car? You know, to listen to the radio
>> without the engine running.
>
> Actually, I don't know. She doesn't let me drive it. ;-)
>>
>>>> How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
>>>> van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
>>>> it again to shut the van off.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
>>> Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
>>> It was a PITA to design to, also.
>>
>> Aren't almost all newer cars Push To Start? *What* went where all bad ideas went?
>
> "Start/Stop" is no more. For some reason customers didn't like their
> engine shutting off at every stoplight.
>
2019 F150 has engine stop/start but that can be over ridden after every
engine start using the start button.
And the engine does not shut down at every stop light. It all seems to
depend on the load on the battery. If your AC is working to keep the
temp cool, it will not shut down. And by the same token if the engine
does shut down and the interior temp changes the engine will
automatically restart whether you are ready to proceed or not.
Snip
>
> No, "Start/Stop" is where the engine shuts off at stoplights and
> restarts when you press on the accelerator.
off of the brake pedal to restart the engine, that is with normal
start/stop operation.
If you are using adaptive cruise control and the vehicle stops on it's
own and shuts down the engine, you restart by pressing the accelerator
pedal and that also releases the brake.
>
>> How do you get in and out of ACC mode in her car? You know, to listen to the radio
>> without the engine running.
>
> Actually, I don't know. She doesn't let me drive it. ;-)
>>
>>>> How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
>>>> van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
>>>> it again to shut the van off.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
>>> Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
>>> It was a PITA to design to, also.
>>
>> Aren't almost all newer cars Push To Start? *What* went where all bad ideas went?
>
> "Start/Stop" is no more. For some reason customers didn't like their
> engine shutting off at every stoplight.
>
engine start using the start button.
And the engine does not shut down at every stop light. It all seems to
depend on the load on the battery. If your AC is working to keep the
temp cool, it will not shut down. And by the same token if the engine
does shut down and the interior temp changes the engine will
automatically restart whether you are ready to proceed or not.
DerbyDad03
Jul 15, 2021, 10:12:36 AM7/15/21
to
What I don't know is why you even brought it up. When I mentioned the Start/Stop *button*,
you came back with "I hate start/stop."
It sure seemed like you were responding to my "press the Start/Stop button"
comment but what you're talking about is a totally different subject - something
that I never brought up.
Why did you introduce the start-stop feature to the discussion when I was talking
about pressing a button to get into ACC mode?
> >How do you get in and out of ACC mode in her car? You know, to listen to the radio
> >without the engine running.
> Actually, I don't know. She doesn't let me drive it. ;-)
> >
> >> >How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
> >> >van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
> >> >it again to shut the van off.
> >> >
> >> >Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
> >> Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
> >> It was a PITA to design to, also.
I said "Push To Start", you said it was a bad idea that went away.
> >
> >Aren't almost all newer cars Push To Start? *What* went where all bad ideas went?
> "Start/Stop" is no more. For some reason customers didn't like their
> engine shutting off at every stoplight.
Scott Lurndal
Jul 15, 2021, 10:14:39 AM7/15/21
to
DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> writes:
>On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 6:41:07 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> writes:
>> >On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:51:36 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>
>> >> >
>> >> >Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
>> >> Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
>> >> It was a PITA to design to, also.
>> >
>> >Aren't almost all newer cars Push To Start? *What* went where all bad ideas went?
>> Well, I used to push my '67 dodge pickup to start it, so long as I remembered
>> to park facing downslope.
>>
>> However, the dash mounted 'push/stop' buttons just trigger a series of
>> functions in the EC; mine works flawlessly.
>
>I agree.
>
>Question: How do you get in and out of ACC mode?
Tap it thrice in sequence. You need to tap and hold to start.
>On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 6:41:07 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> DerbyDad03 <teama...@eznet.net> writes:
>> >On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 4:51:36 PM UTC-4, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>
>> >> >
>> >> >Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
>> >> Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
>> >> It was a PITA to design to, also.
>> >
>> >Aren't almost all newer cars Push To Start? *What* went where all bad ideas went?
>> Well, I used to push my '67 dodge pickup to start it, so long as I remembered
>> to park facing downslope.
>>
>> However, the dash mounted 'push/stop' buttons just trigger a series of
>> functions in the EC; mine works flawlessly.
>
>I agree.
>
>Question: How do you get in and out of ACC mode?
Tap it again to shut off.
Scott Lurndal
Jul 15, 2021, 10:15:47 AM7/15/21
to
DerbyDad03
Jul 15, 2021, 10:24:44 AM7/15/21
to
to get out of ACC? And then you have to tap again to get out of
Run mode?
Mine does. All the gauges move, the HVAC comes on, the lamp
test runs, etc.
That's what I don't like.
Leon
Jul 15, 2021, 10:26:21 AM7/15/21
to
As far as it failing, no more likely than any vehicle simply stalling
and causing issues.
You are over thinking it.
FWIW I don't care for the start stop feature at all but you get used to it.
Leon
Jul 15, 2021, 10:28:46 AM7/15/21
to
will wash off of the bearings. Additionally the oil pumps are beefed
up. My oil gauge indicates normal pressure instantaneously with start
up. The oil is already every where in the engine and does not have to
be redistributed.
Leon
Jul 15, 2021, 10:30:11 AM7/15/21
to
Markem618
Jul 15, 2021, 10:40:11 AM7/15/21
to
On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 09:26:12 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
With as little as I drive now the battery is not charged enough for
the stop/start to work.
wrote:
the stop/start to work.
Leon
Jul 15, 2021, 10:41:22 AM7/15/21
to
the touch screen was not the only computer in a vehicle.
Regardless nearly all electrical components, window regulator motors,
door lock actuators, AC controllers to name a few all have a chip of
some sort.
Having been the service manager at an Olds dealership I can assure you
that manual lever actuated controls had their issues too.
So in the 80's GM's "ECM" was short for Electronic Control Module. That
computer monitored every electrical function, including simple lighting.
If your vehicle has a catalytic converter, most likely you have some
type of processor to measure O2.
If you have a vehicle built since 1980 you have electronics that you
probably had no clue that they were there.
Leon
Jul 15, 2021, 10:53:17 AM7/15/21
to
Markem618
Jul 15, 2021, 11:41:36 AM7/15/21
to
On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 09:53:08 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
Yes I learn the tolerance on the Ranger was 73% was the charge level
needed for the Auto Stop/Start to work on it. Do not know what the
charge level needed for the F 150 that replaced the Ranger.
needed for the Auto Stop/Start to work on it. Do not know what the
charge level needed for the F 150 that replaced the Ranger.
k...@notreal.com
Jul 15, 2021, 2:22:56 PM7/15/21
to
On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 03:05:41 -0400, Michael Trew <mt99...@ymail.com>
wrote:
Mine won't start without a foot on the brake. I can switch it to ACC
but it won't start.
wrote:
but it won't start.
k...@notreal.com
Jul 15, 2021, 2:27:56 PM7/15/21
to
On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 03:04:19 -0400, Michael Trew <mt99...@ymail.com>
wrote:
>On 7/14/2021 6:41 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Well, I used to push my '67 dodge pickup to start it, so long as I remembered
>> to park facing downslope.
>
>HAHA, that's a good one. I've gone 3 months on a battery that was bad
>enough that it had to be push started every time.
With my Gremlin, it was the starter, or more precisely the ring gear.
It made it more like a roulette wheel. If it came up green, it would
do is grind another pound of ring gear. I had to push the car far
enough to expose the red or black teeth to go anywhere.
it's already running. ;-)
wrote:
>On 7/14/2021 6:41 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Well, I used to push my '67 dodge pickup to start it, so long as I remembered
>> to park facing downslope.
>
>HAHA, that's a good one. I've gone 3 months on a battery that was bad
>enough that it had to be push started every time.
It made it more like a roulette wheel. If it came up green, it would
do is grind another pound of ring gear. I had to push the car far
enough to expose the red or black teeth to go anywhere.
>
>I have a push-button start car now... the key in my '93 Metro doesn't do
>anything when you turn it all the way, so you have to push this fancy
>button hacked into the dash board to kick the ignition solenoid on.
>Don't bump it when the engine's running, or you'll shear the teeth off
>of the flywheel -- or the gears off of the starter - maybe both.
That's another nice thing electronics buys. No more starting when
>I have a push-button start car now... the key in my '93 Metro doesn't do
>anything when you turn it all the way, so you have to push this fancy
>button hacked into the dash board to kick the ignition solenoid on.
>Don't bump it when the engine's running, or you'll shear the teeth off
>of the flywheel -- or the gears off of the starter - maybe both.
it's already running. ;-)
k...@notreal.com
Jul 15, 2021, 2:29:09 PM7/15/21
to
On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 03:07:57 -0400, Michael Trew <mt99...@ymail.com>
wrote:
You're still of thinking '70s cars.
wrote:
k...@notreal.com
Jul 15, 2021, 2:30:02 PM7/15/21
to
k...@notreal.com
Jul 15, 2021, 2:34:01 PM7/15/21
to
On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 09:53:08 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
My ('13) truck isn't start/stop but has a weird "battery saving mode"
that comes up on the center-stack display but I really don't
understand what it does. It doesn't like my (Qi) phone charger or my
GPS/backup camera display plugged in overnight (even not being used).
Eventually it'll complain. Running it during the day doesn't seem to
put enough back on the battery to keep it from complaining.
that comes up on the center-stack display but I really don't
understand what it does. It doesn't like my (Qi) phone charger or my
GPS/backup camera display plugged in overnight (even not being used).
Eventually it'll complain. Running it during the day doesn't seem to
put enough back on the battery to keep it from complaining.
k...@notreal.com
Jul 15, 2021, 2:37:24 PM7/15/21
to
On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 08:59:52 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 7/14/2021 9:41 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>Snip
>
>>
>> No, "Start/Stop" is where the engine shuts off at stoplights and
>> restarts when you press on the accelerator.
>
>Actually on my F150, if YOU stop the vehicle you simply take your foot
>off of the brake pedal to restart the engine, that is with normal
>start/stop operation.
>
>If you are using adaptive cruise control and the vehicle stops on it's
>own and shuts down the engine, you restart by pressing the accelerator
>pedal and that also releases the brake.
>
>
>
>>
>>> How do you get in and out of ACC mode in her car? You know, to listen to the radio
>>> without the engine running.
>>
>> Actually, I don't know. She doesn't let me drive it. ;-)
>>>
>>>>> How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
>>>>> van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
>>>>> it again to shut the van off.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
>>>> Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
>>>> It was a PITA to design to, also.
>>>
>>> Aren't almost all newer cars Push To Start? *What* went where all bad ideas went?
>>
>> "Start/Stop" is no more. For some reason customers didn't like their
>> engine shutting off at every stoplight.
>>
>
>2019 F150 has engine stop/start but that can be over ridden after every
>engine start using the start button.
There is usually some magic and totally incomprehensible combination
of button pushes and knob twisting that will disable the feature
permanently.
wrote:
>On 7/14/2021 9:41 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>Snip
>
>>
>> No, "Start/Stop" is where the engine shuts off at stoplights and
>> restarts when you press on the accelerator.
>
>Actually on my F150, if YOU stop the vehicle you simply take your foot
>off of the brake pedal to restart the engine, that is with normal
>start/stop operation.
>
>If you are using adaptive cruise control and the vehicle stops on it's
>own and shuts down the engine, you restart by pressing the accelerator
>pedal and that also releases the brake.
>
>
>
>>
>>> How do you get in and out of ACC mode in her car? You know, to listen to the radio
>>> without the engine running.
>>
>> Actually, I don't know. She doesn't let me drive it. ;-)
>>>
>>>>> How do you get out of ACC mode? You push the Start/Stop button again, which puts the
>>>>> van in Run mode (lamp test runs, relays click and clack, HVAC comes on, etc.) then press
>>>>> it again to shut the van off.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe all Push To Start vehicles act like that. This is my first one.
>>>> Fortunately they were a bad idea that went where all bad ideas went.
>>>> It was a PITA to design to, also.
>>>
>>> Aren't almost all newer cars Push To Start? *What* went where all bad ideas went?
>>
>> "Start/Stop" is no more. For some reason customers didn't like their
>> engine shutting off at every stoplight.
>>
>
>2019 F150 has engine stop/start but that can be over ridden after every
>engine start using the start button.
of button pushes and knob twisting that will disable the feature
permanently.
k...@notreal.com
Jul 15, 2021, 2:48:57 PM7/15/21
to
On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 09:30:03 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
He's a kid but drives his great-grandpappy's '38 DeSoto.
wrote:
k...@notreal.com
Jul 15, 2021, 2:53:43 PM7/15/21
to
On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 03:11:03 -0400, Michael Trew <mt99...@ymail.com>
wrote:
>On 7/14/2021 12:20 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> then the bandaid (weld) attempting to put the humpty car back
>> together, also failed within days. Fit and finish of those cars was
>> *perfect* and they never rusted out before they were paid for (when a
>> 36mo loan was long). Yep, the good ol' days.
>
>
>I think you're referring to 70's cars. I've never seen one of my 90's
>cars rust out that quickly.
'90s cars didn't operate as you say yours do. Even back in the BT
(before Trew) era, ignitions were locked out until the car was in PARK
or the clutch depressed. Oh, and then there was the refusal to start
as long as everyone in the front had their seat belt fastened. Federal
DOT rules and all that.
>BTW, my '75 Dart is still going strong!
'75 Darts *never* went strong, even new.
wrote:
>On 7/14/2021 12:20 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:34:08 -0400, Michael Trew<mt99...@ymail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/13/2021 5:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>>>
>>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>>>
>>> I'll try not to get started on a car rant again, but stuff like that is
>>> my reasoning for driving 90's and back vehicles. I like the old stuff
>>> without computers and touch screens!
>>
>> No, I've never had wiring fail in old cars or door posts break off,
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/13/2021 5:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>>>
>>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>>>
>>> I'll try not to get started on a car rant again, but stuff like that is
>>> my reasoning for driving 90's and back vehicles. I like the old stuff
>>> without computers and touch screens!
>>
>> then the bandaid (weld) attempting to put the humpty car back
>> together, also failed within days. Fit and finish of those cars was
>> *perfect* and they never rusted out before they were paid for (when a
>> 36mo loan was long). Yep, the good ol' days.
>
>
>I think you're referring to 70's cars. I've never seen one of my 90's
>cars rust out that quickly.
'90s cars didn't operate as you say yours do. Even back in the BT
(before Trew) era, ignitions were locked out until the car was in PARK
or the clutch depressed. Oh, and then there was the refusal to start
as long as everyone in the front had their seat belt fastened. Federal
DOT rules and all that.
>BTW, my '75 Dart is still going strong!
'75 Darts *never* went strong, even new.
k...@notreal.com
Jul 15, 2021, 2:56:54 PM7/15/21
to
shipped them back when the work was done. Hundreds.
>>I like manual HVAC controls (you can feel the levers operate
>>as you pull/push switches), manual windows, throttle cable (not wire),
>>manual everything. Electronic spark control (or "ECM" more recently) is
>>fine.
>
>The thing is the goverment is now requiring electronically controlled
>braking and electronic stability control among other things.
Leon
Jul 15, 2021, 5:26:47 PM7/15/21
to
On 7/15/2021 2:04 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
Snip
Snip
>
> I have a push-button start car now... the key in my '93 Metro doesn't do
> anything when you turn it all the way, so you have to push this fancy
> button hacked into the dash board to kick the ignition solenoid on.
> Don't bump it when the engine's running, or you'll shear the teeth off
> of the flywheel -- or the gears off of the starter - maybe both.
So you prefer the issues you described above. Jeez!
> I have a push-button start car now... the key in my '93 Metro doesn't do
> anything when you turn it all the way, so you have to push this fancy
> button hacked into the dash board to kick the ignition solenoid on.
> Don't bump it when the engine's running, or you'll shear the teeth off
> of the flywheel -- or the gears off of the starter - maybe both.
Leon
Jul 15, 2021, 5:31:29 PM7/15/21
to
and if battery voltage cannot keep up. Maybe like my iPhone in battery
saving mode. Once a threshold is met the screen dims and a few other
things happen.
Leon
Jul 15, 2021, 5:37:56 PM7/15/21
to
to the battery. That apparently is what is telling the system what the
voltage is and whether it is OK to stop the engine or not. And IIRC
when you unplug that lead you get a warning of some sort indication a
problem with voltage. BUT the engine no longer shuts off when stopped.
And for the button pushing, I thought I found it deep inside the
instrument panel tabs. After several steps I found a setting to disable
the auto stop feature. Unfortunately it works exactly like the button
on the dash. It does not lock the setting after the engine is manually
turned off.
DerbyDad03
Jul 15, 2021, 5:59:38 PM7/15/21
to
On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 3:04:21 AM UTC-4, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 7/14/2021 6:41 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > Well, I used to push my '67 dodge pickup to start it, so long as I remembered
> > to park facing downslope.
> HAHA, that's a good one. I've gone 3 months on a battery that was bad
> enough that it had to be push started every time.
>
> On 7/14/2021 6:41 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > Well, I used to push my '67 dodge pickup to start it, so long as I remembered
> > to park facing downslope.
> HAHA, that's a good one. I've gone 3 months on a battery that was bad
> enough that it had to be push started every time.
>
> I have a push-button start car now... the key in my '93 Metro doesn't do
> anything when you turn it all the way, so you have to push this fancy
> button hacked into the dash board to kick the ignition solenoid on.
> Don't bump it when the engine's running, or you'll shear the teeth off
> of the flywheel -- or the gears off of the starter - maybe both.
Your mention of shearing teeth reminds me of my 66 Rambler Ambassador.
> anything when you turn it all the way, so you have to push this fancy
> button hacked into the dash board to kick the ignition solenoid on.
> Don't bump it when the engine's running, or you'll shear the teeth off
> of the flywheel -- or the gears off of the starter - maybe both.
That car needed some dental work on the flywheel and sometimes screeched
when I tried to start it. Each "screech" would move the flywheel a little bit and
the starter would eventually grab enough good teeth to start. 2 - 3 screeches at
most. ;-)
But what I was really reminded of was the "switch" I installed for the sound system.
The AM radio in a 66 Rambler Ambassador was not the type that could be replaced
with an aftermarket AM/FM radio because of the vertical mounting layout of the
factory radio. Tall and shallow vs. short and deep like most radios.
https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/313568843276_/1966-AMC-Rambler-Ambassador-AM-Pushbutton-Radio-w.jpg
So I hung one of those FM Radio/Cassette Players under the dash and used a big
toggle switch to swap the 4 speakers from the OEM AM radio to the FM/Cassette unit.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-pioneer-kp-500-dash-cassette-28144815
k...@notreal.com
Jul 15, 2021, 8:42:00 PM7/15/21
to
On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 16:31:21 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
I'm not sure what it's turning off. Everything seems to work. It's
surprising to me that the battery doesn't last months with these
little loads. I gotta measure them sometime. They may not be as
small as I think.
surprising to me that the battery doesn't last months with these
little loads. I gotta measure them sometime. They may not be as
small as I think.
k...@notreal.com
Jul 15, 2021, 8:44:48 PM7/15/21
to
On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 16:37:48 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
I don't have a start/stop vehicle (before and after) but a friend's
Infiniti (or Acura, I can't remember) had some sequence of cockpit
controls that disabled the feature completely.
Infiniti (or Acura, I can't remember) had some sequence of cockpit
controls that disabled the feature completely.
Ed Pawlowski
Jul 15, 2021, 9:13:16 PM7/15/21
to
it must start in that mode every time. You'd have to get into the ECU
to disable it. The question comes up often on car forums.
Leon
Jul 16, 2021, 10:15:38 AM7/16/21
to
DerbyDad03
Jul 16, 2021, 12:26:05 PM7/16/21
to
of us were taking a multi-car road trip "upstate". Slap that big ole' magnetic antenna on
the roof and off we'd go. ;-) (no cell phones back then)
I remember the day that I moved out of NYC and was heading up north. It got so foggy that
I could barely see the white line on the side of the highway. I got behind an 18 wheeler, called
him on the CB and let him know that I was close behind, using him as my guide. He was more
than happy to help.
Another time I was travelling across the top of NYS in a blizzard. With the remote area
and the weather, comms were really bad. I reached a point where I heard a trucker trying
to raise someone - anyone - on Channel 19. He had slid off the road. We kept talking
until I reached his location, took note of the mile marker and told him that I'd keep
trying to raise a trooper and let him know the location. I eventually managed to do
that and (I assume) the situation got taken care of.
Michael Trew
Jul 17, 2021, 10:49:55 PM7/17/21
to
On 7/15/2021 9:49 AM, Leon wrote:
> require the pedal to be depressed to move out of Park.
I've owned a few cars that have to have the brake depressed to shift
from park, but not the older ones. My '89 Olds cutlass cruiser is the
newest one that doesn't require the brake I believe. Every one before
that back to my '75 Dart are the same. Perhaps that's an early 90's thing?
> On 7/15/2021 2:05 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
>> On 7/14/2021 8:05 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> If you depress the brake petal the engine will start. Just like a
>>> vehicle with a keyed ignition switch.
>>
>>
>> Do you have to depress the brake to start a modern key'd car? I've
>> driven some where the brake must be applied to shift out of park, but
>> never to start it.
>
>
> IIRC my Tundra was like that but I may have forgotten. IIRC also all
>> On 7/14/2021 8:05 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> If you depress the brake petal the engine will start. Just like a
>>> vehicle with a keyed ignition switch.
>>
>>
>> Do you have to depress the brake to start a modern key'd car? I've
>> driven some where the brake must be applied to shift out of park, but
>> never to start it.
>
>
> require the pedal to be depressed to move out of Park.
I've owned a few cars that have to have the brake depressed to shift
from park, but not the older ones. My '89 Olds cutlass cruiser is the
newest one that doesn't require the brake I believe. Every one before
that back to my '75 Dart are the same. Perhaps that's an early 90's thing?
Michael Trew
Jul 17, 2021, 10:53:33 PM7/17/21
to
On 7/15/2021 10:15 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
That's most manuals since the 80's. My '83 F150 is the newest I've
owned that doesn't have a "clutch safety" switch. I'm not sure if
that's due to the transmission, 3 on the tree, or if that just wasn't
implemented into trucks until later (alternatively, it could have been
bypassed by someone). I feel like I've talked to people with vehicles
older than '83 that had to have the clutch pressed to start. My 90's
and newer vehicles all require that. My dad's '70 Chevelle doesn't
require the clutch pressed. If you want an auto starter on a manual,
you have to have the clutch safety bypassed... don't leave it parked in
gear!
> Michael Trew<mt99...@ymail.com> writes:
>> On 7/14/2021 8:05 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> If you depress the brake petal the engine will start. Just like a
>>> vehicle with a keyed ignition switch.
>>
>>
>> Do you have to depress the brake to start a modern key'd car? I've
>> driven some where the brake must be applied to shift out of park, but
>> never to start it.
>
> I have to press the clutch to start my chevy colorado (2016, physical key).
>> On 7/14/2021 8:05 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> If you depress the brake petal the engine will start. Just like a
>>> vehicle with a keyed ignition switch.
>>
>>
>> Do you have to depress the brake to start a modern key'd car? I've
>> driven some where the brake must be applied to shift out of park, but
>> never to start it.
>
That's most manuals since the 80's. My '83 F150 is the newest I've
owned that doesn't have a "clutch safety" switch. I'm not sure if
that's due to the transmission, 3 on the tree, or if that just wasn't
implemented into trucks until later (alternatively, it could have been
bypassed by someone). I feel like I've talked to people with vehicles
older than '83 that had to have the clutch pressed to start. My 90's
and newer vehicles all require that. My dad's '70 Chevelle doesn't
require the clutch pressed. If you want an auto starter on a manual,
you have to have the clutch safety bypassed... don't leave it parked in
gear!
Michael Trew
Jul 17, 2021, 10:57:58 PM7/17/21
to
making an amusing point about the "push button start" in my car, since
it was hacked in to fix some issue by the prior owner. Possibly a
failure in the ignition key cylinder.
Michael Trew
Jul 17, 2021, 11:03:52 PM7/17/21
to
on the flywheel at all. I have a couple missing teeth on my '89 Olds
Wagon. It doesn't prevent it from starting, but it's sometimes noisy
when starting. I think it happened during a catastrophic starter
failure. I killed the engine in the KFC drive thru, and it went
pop/bang and only made a grinding noise when attempting to start after
that. Perhaps the started wasn't lined up correctly, but whatever
happened, the whole starter case was cracked through, forcing the
starter teeth away from the flywheel. I ordered a starter, and replaced
it in the KFC parking lot the next day. The people behind me helped me
push it into a parking spot, and the manager let me keep it there until
tomorrow.
Someone put an AM/FM/Cassette similar to that into my dad's Chevelle
under the dash. The '75 Dart that I just bought has the factory AM only
radio in it. There is a wiring issue somewhere; the fuel/temp gauges
don't work, neither do any of the gauge lights. Same for the AM
radio... I'd assume it would still work. I'd love to test it if I can
find the bad wire. I replaced the fuse; it didn't seem to help.
Michael Trew
Jul 17, 2021, 11:07:46 PM7/17/21
to
On 7/15/2021 10:26 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 7/15/2021 2:07 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
>> On 7/14/2021 10:41 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On 7/15/2021 2:07 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
>> On 7/14/2021 10:41 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>>> "Start/Stop" is no more. For some reason customers didn't like their
>>> engine shutting off at every stoplight.
>>
>>
>>> engine shutting off at every stoplight.
>>
>>
>> I couldn't help but to think that those cars are rather inefficient...
>> in the manner that, can you think of how fast those starters are going
>> to wear out? What happens when that technology fails and the car
>> fails to restart... then you're stranded at the stop light with people
>> laying on their horns. No thanks, just keep my engine running for a
>> minute.
>
> These vehicles have HD starters and upgraded batteries.
>
> As far as it failing, no more likely than any vehicle simply stalling
> and causing issues.
>
> You are over thinking it.
>
> FWIW I don't care for the start stop feature at all but you get used to it.
I didn't know all of that. I don't know much of anything about cars
>> in the manner that, can you think of how fast those starters are going
>> to wear out? What happens when that technology fails and the car
>> fails to restart... then you're stranded at the stop light with people
>> laying on their horns. No thanks, just keep my engine running for a
>> minute.
>
> These vehicles have HD starters and upgraded batteries.
>
> As far as it failing, no more likely than any vehicle simply stalling
> and causing issues.
>
> You are over thinking it.
>
> FWIW I don't care for the start stop feature at all but you get used to it.
newer than 20 years old. I have owned plenty of cars that sometimes
don't like to start again when shut off, and the thought of the engine
being off momentarily and needing to be on again at a moments notice,
such as sitting in traffic, gives me a lot of anxiety. Out of habit, I
always park in such a manner that I can bump start the car myself to get
moving if need be.
Michael Trew
Jul 17, 2021, 11:09:27 PM7/17/21
to
2000, and it wasn't for very long. The thought of being stuck in heavy
traffic in a disabled car gives me anxiety, and that's not pleasant to
drive around with.
Michael Trew
Jul 17, 2021, 11:12:03 PM7/17/21
to
these days.
Michael Trew
Jul 17, 2021, 11:15:53 PM7/17/21
to
automatic transmissions. I know plenty of younger "car people" that
also prefer standard transmissions. It gives you more control, plain
and simple.
I drive to Geo Metro car meets twice per year; Minnesota in the Autumn,
and Florida in the spring. Most people that drive Metros are extremely
budget conscience, and will shut off the engine as soon as possible. It
was a running joke for a while with how light the cars are that if
someone has to move one a few feet, the instant reaction is to kick it
into neutral and push the little car a few feet, rather than adding a
hint of wear/tear with an unnecessary start or wasting an ounce or two
of fuel.
Michael Trew
Jul 17, 2021, 11:16:33 PM7/17/21
to
Michael Trew
Jul 17, 2021, 11:20:27 PM7/17/21
to
On 7/15/2021 5:08 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> And the programmming can
> be done by below-US-minimum-wage labor in India, so it's to the
> benefit of the manufacturer to do it that way.
Yes, cost is typically the root cause of changes. Whatever makes the
> And the programmming can
> be done by below-US-minimum-wage labor in India, so it's to the
> benefit of the manufacturer to do it that way.
manufacturer more cash to swim in.
>
> The thing is the goverment is now requiring electronically controlled
> braking and electronic stability control among other things.
and don't know how to properly "threshold brake" or handle a car in poor
conditions (eg: someone who mashes the brake pedal and prays for dear
life in a stressful situation), then yes, ESC and ABS are for you -- the
masses I presume. The other side to the situation, is that people who
know how to drive, can be very much hampered with ABS and these systems.
I'm glad that none of my cars have this stuff.
https://austonhensley.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/why-abs-is-dangerous-and-how-to-disable-it/
Michael Trew
Jul 17, 2021, 11:27:27 PM7/17/21
to
On 7/15/2021 10:41 AM, Leon wrote:
> the touch screen was not the only computer in a vehicle.
>
> Regardless nearly all electrical components, window regulator motors,
> door lock actuators, AC controllers to name a few all have a chip of
> some sort.
>
> Having been the service manager at an Olds dealership I can assure you
> that manual lever actuated controls had their issues too.
>
> So in the 80's GM's "ECM" was short for Electronic Control Module. That
> computer monitored every electrical function, including simple lighting.
> If your vehicle has a catalytic converter, most likely you have some
> type of processor to measure O2.
>
> If you have a vehicle built since 1980 you have electronics that you
> probably had no clue that they were there.
>
I probably sound like a broken record mentioning "geo metro" in almost
every other post, but I've torn one of these cars down to the bare
chassis. If it has a standard transmission, the only real "computer" is
the ECM. The A/C system is simply powered by a switch that goes to a
standard relay. Most of these systems that are "chip controlled" on
modern cars are controlled by simple relays on my Metros. The ECM
monitors the O2 sensor. I'm sure the OBD2 Metros (1996+) have some
additional computers -- but mine are all the old style '94 and back.
Of course, the Metro being a dead-simple basic style car, it isn't
surprise that it has all basic controls. I'm sure my '89 Olds wagon and
others do have some computer/chips that I'm not aware of. I'm not
counting the radio in any of my vehicles either. The climate controls
are vacuum controlled in my Oldsmobile, and there is a loose line
somewhere, because it's stuck on defrost. Of course, there are faults
in any system, but I like simple mechanical systems where at least I can
fix the fault myself (eg: stuck lever in the climate controls).
> On 7/15/2021 2:14 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
>> On 7/14/2021 2:34 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 7/14/2021 2:34 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 7/14/2021 10:34 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>> On 7/13/2021 5:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>>>>
>>>> I'll try not to get started on a car rant again, but stuff like that
>>>> is my reasoning for driving 90's and back vehicles. I like the old
>>>> stuff without computers and touch screens!
>>>
>>>> On 7/13/2021 5:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>>>>
>>>> I'll try not to get started on a car rant again, but stuff like that
>>>> is my reasoning for driving 90's and back vehicles. I like the old
>>>> stuff without computers and touch screens!
>>>
>>> You have to go back to the 70's to avoid computers.
>>>
>>> I will take the computers any day.
>>>
>>> In 1980 Oldsmobile introduced the ECM. Suddenly V6 engines were out
>>> performing v8's and getting better gas mileage.
>>
>> I didn't mean ignition control computers. I meant the crazy touch
>> screen every-single-simple-manual-control-is-microprocessor-controlled
>> madness. I like manual HVAC controls (you can feel the levers operate
>>>
>>> I will take the computers any day.
>>>
>>> In 1980 Oldsmobile introduced the ECM. Suddenly V6 engines were out
>>> performing v8's and getting better gas mileage.
>>
>> I didn't mean ignition control computers. I meant the crazy touch
>> screen every-single-simple-manual-control-is-microprocessor-controlled
>> as you pull/push switches), manual windows, throttle cable (not wire),
>> manual everything. Electronic spark control (or "ECM" more recently)
>> is fine.
>
> Sorry, when you said computers and touch screens I assumed you knew that
>> manual everything. Electronic spark control (or "ECM" more recently)
>> is fine.
>
> the touch screen was not the only computer in a vehicle.
>
> Regardless nearly all electrical components, window regulator motors,
> door lock actuators, AC controllers to name a few all have a chip of
> some sort.
>
> Having been the service manager at an Olds dealership I can assure you
> that manual lever actuated controls had their issues too.
>
> So in the 80's GM's "ECM" was short for Electronic Control Module. That
> computer monitored every electrical function, including simple lighting.
> If your vehicle has a catalytic converter, most likely you have some
> type of processor to measure O2.
>
> If you have a vehicle built since 1980 you have electronics that you
> probably had no clue that they were there.
>
I probably sound like a broken record mentioning "geo metro" in almost
every other post, but I've torn one of these cars down to the bare
chassis. If it has a standard transmission, the only real "computer" is
the ECM. The A/C system is simply powered by a switch that goes to a
standard relay. Most of these systems that are "chip controlled" on
modern cars are controlled by simple relays on my Metros. The ECM
monitors the O2 sensor. I'm sure the OBD2 Metros (1996+) have some
additional computers -- but mine are all the old style '94 and back.
Of course, the Metro being a dead-simple basic style car, it isn't
surprise that it has all basic controls. I'm sure my '89 Olds wagon and
others do have some computer/chips that I'm not aware of. I'm not
counting the radio in any of my vehicles either. The climate controls
are vacuum controlled in my Oldsmobile, and there is a loose line
somewhere, because it's stuck on defrost. Of course, there are faults
in any system, but I like simple mechanical systems where at least I can
fix the fault myself (eg: stuck lever in the climate controls).
Michael Trew
Jul 17, 2021, 11:32:56 PM7/17/21
to
On 7/15/2021 4:59 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 03:18:33 -0400, Michael Trew<mt99...@ymail.com>
> wrote:
>>> plug-in were less than the cost of gas for the Jeep. To tell you the
>>> truth though, when the thing is behaving it's nice enough that I'm
>>> seriously thinking about plonking down the cash for a Tesla.
>>
>> My friend has a mid 2000's Jeep with a V8 that gets 8 MPG in town. If
>> you drive a car like that, yes, I can see how it would save you money.
>>
>> Me, I'm content with driving my tin can early 90's Geo Metro, and
>> average 48 MPG (city AND highway) on every tank. I get over 50 MPG when
>> it's all highway. Yes, ECM controlled, but everything else is manual -
>> nary another computer or microprocessor to be found.
>>
>> Pay $500 for the car in one go, and you're set. I get better or equal
>> gas mileage to hybrid like the Prius. My entire car costs less than the
>> dealer charges to replace a head light assembly on a Prius.
>
> I forgot the part about where I get to charge it at work on the boss's
> dime.
>
>
Ah, well that's pretty cool, I must admit! There are a couple free
electric charging stations around here. I assume they will go away when
electric cars become more standard. There are a few near the food court
of a Pittsburgh mall sponsored by so-and-so.
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 03:18:33 -0400, Michael Trew<mt99...@ymail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/14/2021 7:04 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:34:08 -0400, Michael Trew<mt99...@ymail.com>
>> On 7/14/2021 7:04 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 11:34:08 -0400, Michael Trew<mt99...@ymail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/13/2021 5:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>>>>
>>>> I'll try not to get started on a car rant again, but stuff like that is
>>>> my reasoning for driving 90's and back vehicles. I like the old stuff
>>>> without computers and touch screens!
>>>
>>> In my case it worked out to a "free" commute--the payments on a used
>>>
>>>> On 7/13/2021 5:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> Nahh. The damned thing has some piece of crap Microsoft electronic
>>>>> device built into it that makes it decide not to start at random
>>>>> intervals. Solution is to fish under the dash, pull a fuse, wait a
>>>>> minute, put the fuse back. And of course it won't run if I just pull
>>>>> the fuse out and leave it out.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's why I'm getting rid of it at my earliest convenience.
>>>>
>>>> I'll try not to get started on a car rant again, but stuff like that is
>>>> my reasoning for driving 90's and back vehicles. I like the old stuff
>>>> without computers and touch screens!
>>>
>>> plug-in were less than the cost of gas for the Jeep. To tell you the
>>> truth though, when the thing is behaving it's nice enough that I'm
>>> seriously thinking about plonking down the cash for a Tesla.
>>
>> My friend has a mid 2000's Jeep with a V8 that gets 8 MPG in town. If
>> you drive a car like that, yes, I can see how it would save you money.
>>
>> Me, I'm content with driving my tin can early 90's Geo Metro, and
>> average 48 MPG (city AND highway) on every tank. I get over 50 MPG when
>> it's all highway. Yes, ECM controlled, but everything else is manual -
>> nary another computer or microprocessor to be found.
>>
>> Pay $500 for the car in one go, and you're set. I get better or equal
>> gas mileage to hybrid like the Prius. My entire car costs less than the
>> dealer charges to replace a head light assembly on a Prius.
>
> I forgot the part about where I get to charge it at work on the boss's
> dime.
>
>
Ah, well that's pretty cool, I must admit! There are a couple free
electric charging stations around here. I assume they will go away when
electric cars become more standard. There are a few near the food court
of a Pittsburgh mall sponsored by so-and-so.
J. Clarke
Jul 18, 2021, 8:25:19 AM7/18/21
to
On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 23:20:21 -0400, Michael Trew <mt99...@ymail.com>
wrote:
I think your article kind of misses the point. It says "practice in a
parking lot to learn threshold braking". Personally I have never had
ABS activate on a dry road unless I was deliberately setting out to
activate it. But many times I have had it kick in on an _apparently_
dry road where there was oil, residual moisture, or black ice present
that I could not have detected other than by locking up and starting
to skid.
wrote:
parking lot to learn threshold braking". Personally I have never had
ABS activate on a dry road unless I was deliberately setting out to
activate it. But many times I have had it kick in on an _apparently_
dry road where there was oil, residual moisture, or black ice present
that I could not have detected other than by locking up and starting
to skid.
Leon
Jul 18, 2021, 9:46:21 AM7/18/21
to
prevent the starter from properly engaging. My BIL's Mustang had 1
broken tooth and it seemed to be in alignment to not engage almost all
of the time. I suspect where the compression stroke stops the engine
from turning may have been how that happened. Apparently it happened
quite often as that particular tooth probably took the brunt of the
bendex engaging.
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