Having office in basement bad for health??
around again and again and again
Have the basement tested for radon. They are diy. Good for piece of mind.
Cheers..........
.
<<
We have a house with a deep full basement. The basement is 80% finished
and dry. It has a family room sort of room with fishtank, an additional
room with carpet and a work area. I am considering having an office (room
with books, a couch and the linux computer) in the carpeted room. My
parents are concerned that long term, having an office in basement is
hazardous to my health. Are they correct? Should I avoid spending any
significant time in the basement?
The basement is relatively dry, although it is deep. The carpet is a
litttle smelly and I will probably replace it.
igor
>>
-----------------------------------------
Honorary Member of the Military, Industrial, Entertainment Complex.
Fly-by-Night CC
ignoram...@NOSPAM.21402.invalid (Igor21402) wrote:
> We have a house with a deep full basement. The basement is 80% finished
> and dry. It has a family room sort of room with fishtank, an additional
> room with carpet and a work area. I am considering having an office (room
> with books, a couch and the linux computer) in the carpeted room. My
> parents are concerned that long term, having an office in basement is
> hazardous to my health. Are they correct? Should I avoid spending any
> significant time in the basement?
>
> The basement is relatively dry, although it is deep. The carpet is a
> litttle smelly and I will probably replace it.
The only thing I can think of that your parents might be concerned about
is radon exposure, but that's practically a non-issue anyway as you're
being exposed just by living in the house above the basement. The fix
for excessive radon emissions is good ventilation, which may be in order
anyway given the carpet odor.
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
<http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com>
<http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html>
Spehro Pefhany
> The only thing I can think of that your parents might be concerned about
> is radon exposure, but that's practically a non-issue anyway as you're
> being exposed just by living in the house above the basement. The fix
> for excessive radon emissions is good ventilation, which may be in order
> anyway given the carpet odor.
Some people are bothered by mold, and a few of them are severely affected.
You'll get even more pasty-faced too.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
9-11 United we Stand
Richard J Kinch
> I am indeed considering getting a dehumidifier with a humidistat,
Dehumidifying the air is usually futile. Basement floors and walls will
still see high relative humidity and be moldy.
Being in contact with the deep ground makes them cool and under constant
water vapor pressure, conducive to mold growth, despite the ambient air
being warmer and drier. Carpeting promotes the effect.
To succeed, you need both insulation and vapor barriers on such surfaces.
Not cheap to retrofit.
Speedy Jim
Although I understand the point you are trying to make, my experience
has been different. Bringing basement humidity down from ~70% to ~50%
has made huge differences in 2 dwellings. Being highly allergic to
mold,
I can notice the lower mold spore levels right away.
YMMV,
Jim
FDR
"Richard J Kinch" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:Xns927E7E2E215...@216.166.71.230...
I suppose it depends on the situation, but I used a dehumidifier in a small
basement and it made a huge difference in moisture level and smell.
Stan Stocker
If the radon level is OK, it's dry (or dry enough that a dehumidifier
keeps any mold in check), and there is reasonable air exchange, I can't
think of any physical health problems.
There are some mental health issues of being in a confined space with no
natural light. You have the same thing if you work in an inside office,
10 stories up or in a basement. Get up and go outside or upstairs once
in a while, even a small basement window is better than no natural
light, opening it on nice days helps just to get some fresh air.
I work from home full time, in a basement. Fortunately, the front of
the basement is at grade, so I have regular windows looking out over the
valley. A coworker has his home office in a windowless room, to get
around this he leaves the bathroom door open to get some light and air
from the window in the bathroom.
I get feeling sort of closed in and restless after a few hours in a
windowless room. Many folks are prone to depression or screwy sleep
cycles if deprived of natural light for extended periods. Using
daylight bulbs in lighting fixtures and having some pictures helps, but
does not eliminate the effect.
An office at home still beats a cubicle!
Cheers,
Stan
Igor21402 wrote:
>
> We have a house with a deep full basement. The basement is 80% finished
> and dry. It has a family room sort of room with fishtank, an additional
> room with carpet and a work area. I am considering having an office (room
> with books, a couch and the linux computer) in the carpeted room. My
> parents are concerned that long term, having an office in basement is
> hazardous to my health. Are they correct? Should I avoid spending any
> significant time in the basement?
>
> The basement is relatively dry, although it is deep. The carpet is a
> litttle smelly and I will probably replace it.
>
> igor
steamer
in the basement... ;-)
--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : We're *all* Bozos
Building Battlebots galore! : on *this* bus...
http://www.killerbotz.org
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---
George
you probably won't need to test. Local source on that. Only old rock
presents a problem. Maps are also available.
"Igor21402" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.21402.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnan9llv.s23...@nospam.invalid...
~50%.
> *
> * Radon levels would have to be measured by testing.
>
> Thanks. I will test for radon.
>
BillyJoe
> We have a house with a deep full basement. The basement is 80% finished
> and dry. It has a family room sort of room with fishtank, an additional
> room with carpet and a work area. I am considering having an office (room
> with books, a couch and the linux computer) in the carpeted room. My
> parents are concerned that long term, having an office in basement is
> hazardous to my health. Are they correct? Should I avoid spending any
> significant time in the basement?
>
> The basement is relatively dry, although it is deep. The carpet is a
> litttle smelly and I will probably replace it.
My office is in my basement, and I work from home every day of the week.
My mother's is as well, and she uses it two days per week. I also have
several
friends who do this. Here are some tips that I've picked up on over the
years:
Check the basement for radon. It's best to do this with a real service,
since the
test "kits" are usually cheap and not very accurate. A house inspector who
primarily serves people buying/selling homes can usually do this for about
$100.
It seems pricey, but at what cost health? Radon causes cancer. You do the
math. They'll put a detector in the basement for a week or so and give you
an accurate count.
Install a dehumidifier, and if there are unfinished walls, you may want to
apply a
"drylok"-style hydraulic waterblock paint to keep moisture from coming
through.
The same applies to the floor if unfinished. It's very important to keep the
humidity
at or below 50%, because that's the level dust mites and molds need to be
able
to grow. If you aren't allergic, think of your systems. Printers, fax
machines, etc.
all work best in low humidity environments. http://www.missionallergy.com
sells
some pricey dehumidifers, but also some less expensive things like humidity
gauges, and they have LOTS of research material available for free. It's
worth a
look. (No ad, it's just a good starting place.)
Basements are by nature colder than the rest of the house. I have enough
computers that this is a benefit for me - they heat it during the winter,
and it cools THEM in the summer. However, if you only have one or two,
plan on additional heating needs for the winter. Space heaters will probably
NOT work - my mother tried them for a while and had to give up. They just
can't counteract the cooling of the earth around the concrete walls. Put
GOOD
insulation on any exposed walls to counteract this, and consider something
like electric baseboard heaters. They're cheap, easy to install, and an
electrician
can probably throw them on in about an hour. More pricey than whatever your
home is heated with now, probably, but it sure saves time and money on
plumbing and putting in an extra zone.
You said it's a full basement, by which I assume it doesn't have much
natural light. I would recommend looking into special light bulbs that
are designed to produce a more natural spectrum of light, and light
the basement WELL. If you plan to spend any amount of time in the
space on a regular basis, lighting is where to plow the money. Trust
me - good lighting will reduce or eliminate eyestrain/headache problems,
and without it, you'll just start to feel tired after a while because your
body figures it's nighttime.
Also, it's worth a gallon of paint to go with a light, fresh paint scheme
and some cheap carpeting to get a fresh look. This part is much
harder to do after you move your office into the space, and sitting
all day in a chair on a grungy floor is a real drag.
So that's the priority list, in order: Health, heat, and comfort. Just don't
skimp. It's easier to do this all now than later, and it will add to the
value of your home in the end, anyway, PROVIDED it is done well and
properly.
Oh, be aware of one thing. U.S. building codes vary by region, state,
and locale, but are generally similar to other rooms of your house.
HOWEVER, if you plan to put a bed down there, even a pull-out couch,
it will be considered a bedroom, and you'll have to meet ceiling height,
emergency egress, and other regulations that will probably cost a lot
more to do. Avoid that if you can.
Regards,
Bill
Dave Martindale
> Although I understand the point you are trying to make, my experience
>has been different. Bringing basement humidity down from ~70% to ~50%
>has made huge differences in 2 dwellings. Being highly allergic to
>mold,
>I can notice the lower mold spore levels right away.
It also makes a big difference in whether exposed steel surfaces rust or
not. The first summer in our current house, I noticed small amounts of
rust on various tools, mostly steel tools without chrome plating or
paint, that were stored in the basement. We bought a dehumidifier, and
I haven't seen any further rust in two more summers.
Dave
FDR
"BillyJoe" <bill...@toothdr.com> wrote in message
news:kqt2la...@10.1.1.1...
DJ Delorie
ignoram...@NOSPAM.21402.invalid (Igor21402) writes:
> I am in NE IL, the terrain is very flat.
Is it very flat granite, or very flat sandstone?
Speedy Jim
>
> George <som...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> * Radon's a matter of the type of rock you're on. If you're on sedimentary,
> * you probably won't need to test. Local source on that. Only old rock
> * presents a problem. Maps are also available.
>
> I am in NE IL, the terrain is very flat.
Radon map:
Bruce
basement for over ten years. Finally got the "kid" to move out.
Replaced office furniture with "Good" Stuff and moved up stairs.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo IIIIllllllLLLLL EEEEEfffffect tt ssss. At
least none I can see. Better than up stairs. You don't walk by the
office and go in for the one hour "minute"
Seriously - no problems, but you might check for the nasty "Radon"
that supposidly can be found there.
The joy of Wood Turning is that you only have to remove what's not
needed to have something beautiful.
The Other Bruce
nje...@aol.coming (around again and again and again ) wrote in message news:<20020903100205...@mb-ft.aol.com>...
Q
Igor21402 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.21402.invalid> skrev i en
news:slrnan9pi5.tas...@nospam.invalid...
> How would I detect presence of mold?
>
> igor
Green, brown or black stains on the walls, and on the area where the glass
joins the frame on any windows you may have down there... ( damp bathroom
syndrome )....
in extreme cases you'd even be able to smell it ( sorta mushroom type
smell )...
good ventilation and some good lighting and you shouldnt have a problem....
/peter
Noel Montgomery
Radon is a 50 year health risk (EPA protects you to minimal risk for a 50
year exposure!). So sending it off is not a big issue. If your basement
tests high, you need to test again during different seasons and average.
There are long term radon tests that give better results, but it is not
worth it unless it is really high (4 pCi/l is the "limit"). If it is really
high, you should test the first floor and take into account the 2/3 of the
time that you are actually in the basement.
Would only mitigate if it is really high and threatens to affect property
value.
Noel Montgomery
"Igor21402" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.21402.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnan9hb5.qm1...@nospam.invalid...
> around again and again and again <nje...@aol.coming> wrote:
> *
> * Have the basement tested for radon. They are diy. Good for piece of
mind.
>
> Thanks, will go to home depot and buy a kit... I understand that I have to
send
> it for analysis somewhere though.
>
> igor
>
> * Cheers..........
> *
> * .
> * <<
> * We have a house with a deep full basement. The basement is 80% finished
> * and dry. It has a family room sort of room with fishtank, an additional
> * room with carpet and a work area. I am considering having an office
(room
> * with books, a couch and the linux computer) in the carpeted room. My
> * parents are concerned that long term, having an office in basement is
> * hazardous to my health. Are they correct? Should I avoid spending any
> * significant time in the basement?
> *
> * The basement is relatively dry, although it is deep. The carpet is a
> * litttle smelly and I will probably replace it.
> *
> * igor
> * >>
> *
> *
> *
> * -----------------------------------------
> * Honorary Member of the Military, Industrial, Entertainment Complex.
> *
>
Noel Montgomery
be done with a DIY test kit. If it is borderline or high and you are
concerned you can use a pro.
Also, yes radon causes cancer, but a very low risk compared to everything
else in our life. How many people get lung cancer in the absence of
cigarette smoke? Very few.
Noel Montgomery
"BillyJoe" <bill...@toothdr.com> wrote in message
news:kqt2la...@10.1.1.1...
Benoit E.
Stan Stocker <skst...@adelphia.net> wrote:
> If the radon level is OK, it's dry (or dry enough that a dehumidifier
> keeps any mold in check), and there is reasonable air exchange, I can't
> think of any physical health problems.
The following about radon control is from a Canadian source. It talks
about "radon daughters", that is, dust particles that have been
contaminated by the radon gas. Those particles can be inhaled and become
trapped in lung tissue. The gas itself is not dangerous if inhaled.
Simply using a good air filter can reduce the dangerous radon daughters
by ninety percent (90%).
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/phys_agents/radon.html
What can I do to reduce indoor radon levels?
The usual means of reducing indoor radon levels include:
"Reducing the emission from the ground into the building and increasing
the ventilation in basements and other enclosed areas where radon
accumulates.
"Increasing ventilation reduces indoor radon levels. Opening a window
can help dramatically. The radon level is lower when the inside air is
allowed to escape and fresh air can enter the building.
"Caulking and sealing cracks and holes in basement floors and walls
helps stop the release of radon from the ground into the building.
Painting basement floors and wall surfaces also helps. Epoxy paints are
the most effective in reducing radon emission. Typically, two or more
coats of paint, or paint used with a sealant compound, are needed to
seal the pores adequately. Polyethylene sheets serve as a good barrier
to radon emission.
"Since proper surface treatment reduces the emission of radon, the
radon concentration increases inside bricks, slabs, floors and
unpainted areas. Driving nails and hooks into the treated wall
increases radon emission.
"In cases where high radon levels are present because uranium mill
tailing was used as landfill, it may be necessary to replace the fill.
Alternatively, reducing radon concentration to an acceptable level by
coating the surface of the building foundation may be possible.
Covering walls with gypsum, plaster or wallpaper does not reduce radon
emission.
"Air filtration can decrease the radon daughter concentration as much
as 90 percent. The majority of radon daughters are attached to airborne
particles in the building. Particle removal by air filtration helps
decrease radon daughter concentration in the air."
--
Regards,
Benoit Evans
Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT
ignoram...@NOSPAM.21402.invalid (Igor21402) claims:
<snip> basement is relatively dry, <snip>
This is the line that really caught my eye. I have heard of land
being descried as "relatively dry", because it only squished when you
walked on it, rather than sinking you in up to your knees.
What, pray tell, is your version of "relatively dry"?
JOAT
You'll never get anywhere if you believe what you HEAR. What do you
KNOW?
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 30 August 2002. Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/JOATsWEBPAGE/page4.html
Richard J Kinch
> Although I understand the point you are trying to make, my experience
> has been different.
Depending on local soil conditions (which of course change like the
weather) dehumidification of the air alone may work. However I have seen
too many cases where it did little.
Richard J Kinch
> Also, yes radon causes cancer, but a very low risk compared to everything
> else in our life.
There are also models where low exposure triggers a *protective* effect.
Hard to explain why life expectancies are greater in areas of higher
background radiation.
Dan Caster
gas. My understanding is that smoking causes the radon daughters to
be much more of a problem. So if you smoke, don't do it in the
basement. Radon gas can be reduced by venting the soil around the
basement.
Some types of paint are reasonble vapor barriers. So it might be a
good idea to check what your humidity level is, and if it is high seal
the walls and install a dehumidifier. Carpet is probably not a good
idea. The carpet will keep the air from circulating and allow the
air in the carpet to cool down and form dew.
Dan
Speedy Jim <vo...@mail.nls.net> wrote in message news:<3D7510...@mail.nls.net>...
Tim Daneliuk
> Looking at the map, it looks as if you should have a check for radon
> gas. My understanding is that smoking causes the radon daughters to
> be much more of a problem. So if you smoke, don't do it in the
> basement. Radon gas can be reduced by venting the soil around the
> basement.
>
> Some types of paint are reasonble vapor barriers. So it might be a
> good idea to check what your humidity level is, and if it is high seal
> the walls and install a dehumidifier. Carpet is probably not a good
> idea. The carpet will keep the air from circulating and allow the
> air in the carpet to cool down and form dew.
>
> Dan
>
>
When I finished by basement, I first applied plastic sheets to each exposed
concrete wall as a vapor barrier. I did this by tacking them to the
joist or sill plate above with a stapler. I then put spots of construction
glue every 18 inches or so to keep the plastic closely adhered to the
wall. Only then did I build the stud walls against the outside wall. I
also used the styrofoam type insulation rather than the fiberglass.
You don't need a lot of insulation in a basement because the ground temp is
about 55 F year around below the frost line.
Result? No significant moisture problem, and no odor from mildewed/molding
insulation after 8 years.
I've never checked for Radon - I wonder if the plastic vapor barrier also acts
to inhibit Radon gas permeation from the ground/walls...
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
tun...@tundraware.com
Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT
(Igor21362) says:
<snip> There is however a slight smell underneath the carpet <snip>
I have to say, the mental image of you down on your hands and
knees, sniffing the bottom of the carpet, sorta brightens my day. LOL
Benoit E.
Tim Daneliuk <tun...@tundraware.com> wrote:
> I've never checked for Radon - I wonder if the plastic vapor barrier also acts
> to inhibit Radon gas permeation from the ground/walls...
Yes.
The current standards for radon emissions are based more on prudence
than actual risk. It is known the uranium mine workers have a much
greater risk of lung cancer but they are exposed to levels many, many
times higher than those found in homes (except maybe those built on
sites where uranium mine tailings were used as landfill).
There is no data available showing direct risk to health based on
ordinary radon levels in most areas. (Of course it took a while to get
reliable data or the affect of smoking on lung cancer.)
In any case, if you do what a reasonable person would do to make a
basement habitable or functional as a modern workshop, you will almost
certainly reduce radon levels to insigificant levels.
--
Regards,
Benoit Evans
Rich
> knees, sniffing the bottom of the carpet, sorta brightens my day. LOL
>
> JOAT
Didn't I see you in deliverence? I'd squeal for anytime babe!!!!
Thomas Arneberg
> concrete wall as a vapor barrier. I did this by tacking them to the
> joist or sill plate above with a stapler. I then put spots of construction
> glue every 18 inches or so to keep the plastic closely adhered to the
> wall. Only then did I build the stud walls against the outside wall. I
> also used the styrofoam type insulation rather than the fiberglass.
> You don't need a lot of insulation in a basement because the ground temp is
> about 55 F year around below the frost line.
I thought you were supposed to install the vapor barrier between the
sheetrock and the studs, aren't you? I.e., by stapling it to the studs
after you put them up, sealing the insulation in.
This is a very relevant question for me, as I am in the middle of
finishing the basement, and have already done a couple walls with studs
first, and plastic sheets on the outside...
Thanks,
- Tom A.
--------------------------------------------+---------------------
;-) I'd rather be ____ Thomas R. Arneberg | Only 635 more days
:-) singing in a |____| to...@arneberg.com | until my sabbatical!
:-) Barbershop _| _| SGI/SN2 ASIC Design | (June 1-July 16, 2004)
:-) Quartet! (_) (_) Chippewa Falls, WI | http://arneberg.com
--------------------------------------------+---------------------
Tim Daneliuk
> In article <4jd5la...@boundary.tundraware.com>,
> Tim Daneliuk <tun...@tundraware.com> wrote:
>
>>When I finished my basement, I first applied plastic sheets to each exposed
>>concrete wall as a vapor barrier. I did this by tacking them to the
>>joist or sill plate above with a stapler. I then put spots of construction
>>glue every 18 inches or so to keep the plastic closely adhered to the
>>wall. Only then did I build the stud walls against the outside wall. I
>>also used the styrofoam type insulation rather than the fiberglass.
>>You don't need a lot of insulation in a basement because the ground temp is
>>about 55 F year around below the frost line.
>
>
> I thought you were supposed to install the vapor barrier between the
> sheetrock and the studs, aren't you? I.e., by stapling it to the studs
> after you put them up, sealing the insulation in.
>
> This is a very relevant question for me, as I am in the middle of
> finishing the basement, and have already done a couple walls with studs
> first, and plastic sheets on the outside...
>
I have never seen it done this way. The idea is to limit moisture from the damp
cement walls from migrating into your construction, By applying the vapor barrier
directly to the wall (and for about 1 foot on the floor so your stud wall can rest
on the plastic) you prevent moisture from getting to both the drywall AND
your studding... At least, this is what I was taught...
George
It's a matter of dewpoint. Walls which are exposed to outside air will fall
to temperatures below the dewpoint, especially as human activity such as
bathing, cooking and breathing increase the interior relative humidity. The
vapor barrier is between the wallboard and insulation to prevent
condensation upon, and loss of insulating characteristics of, the fiber. A
basement wall, moderated as it is by ground temperature, rarely drops below
the dewpoint except on the warmest, most humid days of summer. The major
moisture player here is the ground outside, not the activity inside, so
people put the barrier right on the block or concrete.
The very best way, I am informed, is to insulate the exterior of the
basement walls, bringing them into play as a temperature moderator. Not
sure where the barrier would go in that case. Suspect it would still be on
the block or concrete.
"Tim Daneliuk" <tun...@tundraware.com> wrote in message
news:4128la...@boundary.tundraware.com...