Jet DC 1900 Dust Collector First Impressions
Vermind
Well after about a year of analysis and comparisons up the wazoo, I
bought a Jet DC-1900 last Friday. Here is my first on a series of impressions
of the unit. Stay tuned in the future for information on static pressure drops
(actual measurments) as I add a cyclone (Oneida Air), better bags (Oneida-Air)
and the various ductwork. I will be determining just what happens when ductwork
and other improvements are added. I will follow the static pressure drops step
by step out to each piece of equipment. I am also going to be attemtping to
add hard numbers to the noise issue of Relaint vs Jet (~1800 cfm models) and
maybe even a Delta 1500 cfm model.
Anyway, the unit is a heavy beast and it arrives packed well. The casters are
placed into the bottom part of the unit via threaded holes in the bottom of the
unit. This was fine except that it is a little hard to thread a caster with
ball bearings. Not a huge problem to overcome (vise grip pliers saved the day)
I expected the assembly would take about 1/4 a day so I settled in for a nice
fun task. After 45 minutes and two pages of directions (I know, guys don't
read directions, but I did for some odd reason) the whole thing was assembled.
I rolled the unit over into it's new home and I plugged it in on its own 220V
circuit. I fired it up and it roared a dull roar. About the same nosie level
as a TS. I attached 40 ft of 4" hose to one of the ports and I set about
cleaning up the piles of dust around the shop. With 1900 cfm of suction you
just gotta get the dust in the same zip code as that hose and it is gone. The
hose tends to suck back onto itself and compress into a nice solid slinky(tm)
coil if one does not hold onto the end. The other two ports were closed off at
this time.
The unit is painted well and there were only a few minor chips of missing paint
on a few lower parts. The styrofoam did set an inpression into the top side of
the bottom panel. The bags and motor cover this up so it is not a biggie.
Paints made today are REALLY sensitive to impressions from anything tha touches
them.
The unit is bolted together with a good number of bolts. Each bag holder has
16 bolts on the part where the *Y* meets the big doughnut thingie that holds
the bag. Each bag holder has a support that comes up from the bottom and holds
the bag holder. Delta's 4 bag unit has two such supports on each side, Jet has
one, I think reliant has none (I have seen a Relaint unit but I did not look
that closely). This leg support helps the hold the bag supports from
vibrating, thus eliminating a big source of noise (IMO).
Because I will be adding ductwork and a cyclone real soon (I hope) I simply
attached a 4" flex hose for the time being. I did not take the time to ground
the end of the wire. As I was using the far end of the hose to clean up dust I
felt a slight shock. A few seconds later I started picking up a much bigger
pile of dust and I noticed that I got a nasty shock. So much so that I thought
I had stuck my hand into a 100V outlet! I stopped to grab my composure and I
went back at it this time observing the bare wire that was just 2" from my
hand. As the dust entered the hose I could see a spark jump the 1.5" to my
hand. It was nasty. I now fully understand the importance of grounding a
plastic DC hose or pipe. The explosion hazard may be minimal, but the static
shock hasard is violent.
As a side note my older dog (aka one of the Killer Brown Dogs of Death) has a
real fettish for the shop vac nozzle when the vac is on. She loves to attack
the hose as it tries to cuk her lips and ears in. Well, the DC is nothing more
than a big vacuum and as such she is just as crazy about the hose. When she
atacks the business end of that big black hose she practicaly gets sucked into
the hose. Her ears go forward and her wiskers get tiped towards the front
bigtime. It is quite funny to see her attack the hose. I have to hold onto
her collar or else I will be digging her out of the bags.
Also as a side not, when I placed my order in (in person) at Tools on Sale the
guy said "yer buying the big one huh?" "Yep" I said. He then said "good, lots
of folks buy the smaller units and they come back in here saying that they
don't have enough suction once they got all their ductwork in place." This
clearly looks like a case where bigger really is better.
Stay tuned, next iteration will be when I start adding ductwork and a cyclone.
Lots of Static pressure reading to follow.
Brook
Bob Zajicek
>
> Folks:
> Well after about a year of analysis and comparisons up the wazoo, I
> bought a Jet DC-1900 last Friday. Here is my first on a series of impressions
Congratz, Brook! Not only on the purchase, but surviving the
analysis with some semblance of your sanity in tact. I'm
currently goin' thru the same thing, and ain't so sure about
mine anymore.
> of the unit. Stay tuned in the future for information on static pressure drops
Will do, and thanks.
> (actual measurments) as I add a cyclone (Oneida Air), better bags (Oneida-Air)
> and the various ductwork. I will be determining just what happens when ductwork
Okay, here's the question I'm currently wrasslin' with... why
didn't you just buy an Oneida? I don't remember the numbers
for a 2K cfm unit, but are you goin' to buy the cyclone
retrofit kit, or get everything ala carte? Are you goin' to
replace your fan with a cast aluminum unit?
FWIW, several weeks ago, the Ww'g Show was in Atlanta, and I
could have got the Jet 1200 Anniversary Ed for $340.
Unfortunately, they only had one, and someone else beat me to
it. The $20 rebate in effect then made it $320. I think for
that price, it's an excellent value even w/o the rebate.
The current local price is close to $400, with no rebate. Plus
it is still a single stage unit, without 5 micron bags, IIRC.
To retrofit an Oneida cyclone is $195+. And I would still have
the bags to deal with at some point. The 1 1/2hp Oneida is now
$690 complete. It has an internal filter (not bags), plus it
has a U.S. made Marathon motor, and a balanced high efficiency
aluminum fan. At this point, it seems a no brainer.
<sniperoo'd of lotsa good comments, thoughts and flea removal
technique>
> Also as a side not, when I placed my order in (in person) at Tools on Sale the
> guy said "yer buying the big one huh?" "Yep" I said. He then said "good, lots
> of folks buy the smaller units and they come back in here saying that they
> don't have enough suction once they got all their ductwork in place." This
> clearly looks like a case where bigger really is better.
This is the same story I got when I talked with Oneida last
week. The smaller, >2K cfm imports only have the suction for
limited duct work and are not recommended for a central
system.
> Stay tuned, next iteration will be when I start adding ductwork and a cyclone.
I will and thanks again. I've still got a month or two to go
before I'll have my new shop up and running, so I won't be
ordering anything right away.
> Lots of Static pressure reading to follow.
BTW, how are you measuring this?
Cheers, Bob
Vermind
>didn't you just buy an Oneida? I don't remember the numbers
>for a 2K cfm unit, but are you goin' to buy the cyclone
>retrofit kit, or get everything ala carte? Are you goin' to
>replace your fan with a cast aluminum unit?
I had Oneida price me out a setup for my shop and with ductwork the total came
to $2200. It also would have required some serious realestate for the tube
filters. I figured it out that by starting with a good 4 bag unit and then
adding the Oneida add ons I could wrastle about $700-800 in savings. Now it
probably won't be as great a unit as the Oneida unit, but saving about 25% was
significant to me. Oneida's system was a true 1200 cfm system whereas the Jet
1900 system probably will not be 1900 cfm when all is said and done, but I bet
I will be up in the 1300-1500 cfm range. Stay tuned.
>To retrofit an Oneida cyclone is $195+.
I need a biger cyclone for about $285. Their small cyclones are for the baby
DC systems.
>The 1 1/2hp Oneida is now
>$690 complete. It has an internal filter (not bags), plus it
>has a U.S. made Marathon motor, and a balanced high efficiency
>aluminum fan.
I looked carefully at this system and it is too dang tall for my shop. Thus I
am building a box to hold an Oneida cyclone and I will build it with a low
profile. I also did not like the filter cartridge idea. As for balancing the
fan I will eventually pull my fan out and have it staticlly and dynamically
balanced by a wiz bang professional shop (~$75). I will wait until I have a
sound measuring meter so I can see if it knocks the sound level down.
> At this point, it seems a no brainer.
My brain over analyzes everything and puts too much value on some things,
usually the wrong things.
>This is the same story I got when I talked with Oneida last
>week. The smaller, >2K cfm imports only have the suction for
>limited duct work and are not recommended for a central
>system.
Well, I have seen some nice central systems hooked up to 1000 cfm (and bigger)
systems that worked just fine, so maybe Oneida is trying to talk down the
competition. Can't blame them for looking to make money. Their 3Hp blower
unit is basically the same blower unit on the 3 Hp Jet. They just add a
different motor. I bet they buy the same unit that jet does and then they just
modify it. I could be wrong, but they look identical.
>BTW, how are you measuring this?
I have some Maghelic gauges and I am working on building a static pressure
gauge. I will be testing it out tonight if time allows.
Brook
Bruno Melli
: The hose tends to suck back onto itself and compress into a nice
I bought a a "startup box" from Grizzly with hose, gates, Y junction...
The hose is built differently than the coiled wire with plastic on
top that came from PennState and from your description ffrom Jet.
The PennState hose sucks back onto itself like you describe.
The hose from Grizzly is not quite as easy to bend but it keeps its
original shape. (Plus the inside is smoother)
bruno.
Mark Kepke
>
> >Vermind wrote:
> >
> > Folks:
> > Well after about a year of analysis and comparisons up the wazoo, I
> > bought a Jet DC-1900 last Friday. Here is my first on a series of impressions
> FWIW, several weeks ago, the Ww'g Show was in Atlanta, and I
> could have got the Jet 1200 Anniversary Ed for $340.
> Unfortunately, they only had one, and someone else beat me to
> it. The $20 rebate in effect then made it $320. I think for
> that price, it's an excellent value even w/o the rebate.
These are in all the woodworking mag adds for middle-upper $300s with
the 5 micron bags.
> The current local price is close to $400, with no rebate. Plus
> it is still a single stage unit, without 5 micron bags, IIRC.
> To retrofit an Oneida cyclone is $195+. And I would still have
> the bags to deal with at some point. The 1 1/2hp Oneida is now
> $690 complete. It has an internal filter (not bags), plus it
> has a U.S. made Marathon motor, and a balanced high efficiency
> aluminum fan. At this point, it seems a no brainer.
How large a system are you all planning for i.e. max number of
simultaneous machines running and at what distance from the DC ?
I'm starting down the same path (the CFO already approved "buy what you
want"), but can't help but believe for my complete, but only modestly
sized hobby shop that a 1200 cfm + fine bags+shop-made cyclone would be
enough. One machine at a time, max chips from planer at less than 12'
to the planer - worst case, the planer at 26' from the DC.
Lastly (yes, I'm a greedy DC amateur) I like the shop-made Wood Mag DC -
but it uses a small 700 CFM DC engine. Wood Mag claims it's plenty for
a home shop w. no caveats - does the design do miraculous things to the
effective collection power or are they kidding the readership ?
I'll also check out Oneida.
<snip>
Vermind
>simultaneous machines running and at what distance from the DC ?
>
I planned my system not so much for the number of machines to be run
simultaneously, but for the amount of ductwork that I *might* someday want. I
wanted to feel free to put branches and connections to any and all parts of my
shop that need it. Each blast gate will leak some air and right now I think I
want about 9-11 separate connections. If each of them leaks a few cfm then I
am loosing some cfm of draw from the system. Add a few elbows and some leaks
that one can't find and seal and you're talking a drop in cfm that may be
significant.
By buying a big system I think I am covering my bases on any and all future
needs/wants/desires/lusts. To me it was an issue of spending $200-$250 more
and having plenty of cfm for expansion if I ever needed. it. The folks at
Oneida said it best when they said "you can always leave an extra blast gate
open, but you can't grow your cfm once you buy a fan."
So far I have seen absolutely zero chips escape from my Delta 12.5" planer
while using 40' of 4" hose connected to the DC unit. I have the other 2 4"
ports capped off. My Star 8" jointer leaks a few chips. It iwll be very
interesting to see how these tools do when I get the ductwork installed.
Brook
gkue...@paymentech.com
> Lastly (yes, I'm a greedy DC amateur) I like the shop-made Wood Mag DC -
> but it uses a small 700 CFM DC engine. Wood Mag claims it's plenty for
> a home shop w. no caveats - does the design do miraculous things to the
> effective collection power or are they kidding the readership ?
>
If you download the cyclone plans from Wood magazines site, woodmagazine.com,
it has instructions to modify the plan for different capacity DC's. Sure it
will cost a couple of bucks for the plan, but it might be helpful.
Gary Kueppers
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Bob Zajicek
>
> Bob Zajicek wrote:
snipperoo of what got the ball rollin' ;-)
> > FWIW, several weeks ago, the Ww'g Show was in Atlanta, and I
> > could have got the Jet 1200 Anniversary Ed for $340.
sniperoo'd
> These are in all the woodworking mag adds for middle-upper $300s with
> the 5 micron bags.
Yep. WmAlden has the Jet Aniv. Ed. for $360 + 12 S&H last I
looked, but I prefer to buy stationary equipment locally. But
that's just me, I guess.
sniperooey'd
> > has a U.S. made Marathon motor, and a balanced high efficiency
> > aluminum fan. At this point, it seems a no brainer.
>
> How large a system are you all planning for i.e. max number of
> simultaneous machines running and at what distance from the DC ?
That's a good question. A Delta TS and DP, 12 1/2" planer,
routah table, 4" jointer, (will prolly upgrade to a 6" but
keep the 4"... it's too cute to part with). Might get a BS
some day jes' fer S&G's. A cupple floor sweeps would be cool
to have also. As far as distance... furthest would be mebbe
15' to 20', but when you figger in the hose drop, and flex
connection, you could prolly add another 10'.
Oh yeah, and I doubt I'll ever run more than one at a time...
jes' call me 'ol Two Hands'.
> I'm starting down the same path (the CFO already approved "buy what you
> want"), but can't help but believe for my complete, but only modestly
> sized hobby shop that a 1200 cfm + fine bags+shop-made cyclone would be
Uh huh... that's what I thought too... funny, I was actually
eyeing the 650 Jet at one time, but then figgered I had better
things to do than scoot that thing all over the shop everytime
I wanted to make some dust and get rid of it. Old age? Naw....
;-) FWIW, that was also about the same time I spied that
gleamin' white Jet 1200 hummin' away at IWF98... (I'm a suckah
for red pinstripes).
> enough. One machine at a time, max chips from planer at less than 12'
> to the planer - worst case, the planer at 26' from the DC.
OK, so we're about even then... I was not plannin' on runnin'
it into my bench area, are you?
> Lastly (yes, I'm a greedy DC amateur) I like the shop-made Wood Mag DC -
> but it uses a small 700 CFM DC engine. Wood Mag claims it's plenty for
> a home shop w. no caveats - does the design do miraculous things to the
> effective collection power or are they kidding the readership ?
Lotsa folks have built those... Steve Wallace, who drops by
here every now and then, is one of them. He has said that it
seems to work fine for him in his garage shop. FWIW he used
the Penn State fan unit that Wood advertised as being
compatable for their cyclone.
FWIW, I don't know anyone locally who has built the Wood unit,
so can't comment on it's perfomance from first hand
observation. I doubt it would be sufficient for shops with
longer runs as I don't think the blower has the hp. BTW, you
didn't mention fan design in this discussion, but I think it's
something that can't be dismissed and I doubt the imports are
as efficient as the domestic variety.
At anyrate, Oneida, Penn State and others will sell you a
stand alone cyclone for around $200. As a former aircraft
sheet metal mechanic, I can tell you that I prolly wouldn't
want to build myself one for that. ;-)
> I'll also check out Oneida.
I think you should. They've dropped the price on the 1 1/2 hp
unit by almost $100. The thing I like about it is it's quiet,
uses no bags, and has a small 2' X 2' footprint. I think it's
cfm rating is very conservative. I have talked with folks
locally who own them and have heard nothing but good things.
No one has said they regretted buying one. By the time you had
the cost of a cyclone to the price of a Jet 1200, you are just
over a $100 away from an Oneida. Add the collection drum and
fittings, you are only about $50 distant. If you buy a full
blown (yeah I know) retrofit cyclone system, (which includes
the internal filter, drum, and connections), you have actually
spent about $100 more.
Wanna borrow an Excedrin?
Cheers, Bob
Patrick H. Corrigan
my cost was $309. This was only about $20 more than the Grizzly, when you
factor in shipping.
Mark Kepke
claiming 1550
cfm and 12.3" static pressure.
DejaNews came up with positive comments only excepting one '97 report of
a poorly balanced impeller. The impeller design has been changed since.
I paid/am paying $250 including cyclone lid, DC basics book and
shipping. Check out the Wood Mag online show at www.woodmagazine.com to
get this price.
I didn't buy hose, fine bags or adapters from Grizzly. I'll probably
get these from PennState and/or Highland Hardware.
It did concern me when the Grizzly order rep I spoke to said I only
needed to
change out the upper DC bag with a high-efficiency one to achieve 0.3
micron filtering. Logically, the achievable filtering with this
configuration will be proportional to the relative flow rates between
the 0.3 micron upper bag and the 30 micron lower bag, e.g. if the
flow-rate is higher through the 30 micron bag, it's going to do more
than half the filtering... IOW, for a system designed to filter through
two bags, you need two high-effeciency filter bags. Right ?
-Mark
Patrick H. Corrigan wrote:
>
> I bought the blue 1200 locally for $329. After the $20 rebate then in effect,
> my cost was $309. This was only about $20 more than the Grizzly, when you
> factor in shipping.
>
> Bob Zajicek wrote:
<snip>
> > > enough. One machine at a time, max chips from planer at less than 12'
> > > to the planer - worst case, the planer at 26' from the DC.
> >
> > OK, so we're about even then... I was not plannin' on runnin'
> > it into my bench area, are you?
Maybe. I was considering last night that I need a DC solution for my
_hand-planing_. I make a lot of shavings that way - my SO hates it when
I track them back into the house.
> > > Lastly (yes, I'm a greedy DC amateur) I like the shop-made Wood Mag DC -
> > > but it uses a small 700 CFM DC engine. Wood Mag claims it's plenty for
> > > a home shop w. no caveats - does the design do miraculous things to the
> > > effective collection power or are they kidding the readership ?
> >
> > Lotsa folks have built those...
<snip> I doubt it would be sufficient for shops with
> > longer runs as I don't think the blower has the hp.
My thinking too - the cyclone improves on the chip collection efficiency
of the
cyclone dust-can lids, but doesn't change the effective number of CFMs.
BTW, you
> > didn't mention fan design in this discussion, but I think it's
> > something that can't be dismissed and I doubt the imports are
> > as efficient as the domestic variety.
Fan design ? You mean the impellers ? Since you can't swap out
impellers,
I looked at the CFMs, static pressure, amp draw, and user comments to
get a sense of the thing's DCing power.
> > At anyrate, Oneida, Penn State and others will sell you a
> > stand alone cyclone for around $200. As a former aircraft
> > sheet metal mechanic, I can tell you that I prolly wouldn't
> > want to build myself one for that. ;-)
The Wood Mag plan looks pretty easy to build actually (I have the plan
in an old issue). The PennState cyclone is actually the Wood Mag
cyclone with a
few modifications.
<snip>
Harvey
Jet DC. Really nice looking equipment to make the system work right. Same
stuff used on the NYW. They are at www.airhand.com
--
har...@earthlink.net
Mark Kepke wrote in message <371F9527...@nortelnetworks.com>...
Patrick H. Corrigan
> It did concern me when the Grizzly order rep I spoke to said I only
> needed to
> change out the upper DC bag with a high-efficiency one to achieve 0.3
> micron filtering. Logically, the achievable filtering with this
> configuration will be proportional to the relative flow rates between
> the 0.3 micron upper bag and the 30 micron lower bag, e.g. if the
> flow-rate is higher through the 30 micron bag, it's going to do more
> than half the filtering... IOW, for a system designed to filter through
> two bags, you need two high-effeciency filter bags. Right ?
Jet ships a 5 micron top bag on their white "aniversary" unit. I would think you
would really need it on the bottom as well to be effective. The Jet 5 micron bag is
much taller than the standard bags. I assume this is to compensate for increased
resistance to air flow of the tighter weave of the material. Penn State, I believe,
supplies oversize upper and lower bags.
Vermind
>Jet DC. Really nice looking equipment to make the system work right.
I have a recent copy of their catalog and thei prices are totally outrageous.
Oneida air has the same stuff and their prices are far, far, far lower than air
handling. You really oughta look at the prices on the Oneida web page
(www.oneida-air.com) and compare. Do it quick because once you make the
comparison, I bet you will want to cancel the airhand order and go with Oneida.
One example I remember was for a wye that air hand wanted >$45 for and Oneida's
price was about $22. Everything I saw was 1/2 the price at Oneida. Oneida
makes all their own wyes and branches so you can get any custom size you want
and not pay a custom price.
I will dig out the catalogs and post a side by side comparison of prices
(provided I did not throw out the airhand catalog in discust).
Brook
Vermind
>needed to
>change out the upper DC bag with a high-efficiency one to achieve 0.3
>micron filtering.
The physics of filtering would dictate that the air (and particles) will take
the path of least resistance, thus going out through the 30 micron bottom bag.
Grizzly gave you bad info, you need top and bottom 0.3 micron bags.
Brook
Vermind
WYEs, also called 45 degree on taper:
Air Hand Oneida
5"x4"x4" $80.32 $17.28
6"x4"x4" $88.20 $19.74
6"x5"x4" $88.20 $19.74
7"x4"x4" $91.35 $20.66
Elbows: (adjustable)
Air Hand Oneida
4" $21.80 $5.70
5" $27.50 $7.05
6" $31.25 $7.68
7" $37.50 $8.76
Spiral Pipe:
Air Hand Oneida
4" $2.70/ft $12.64/8 ft ($1.58/ft)
5" $2.93/ft $15.20/8 ft ($1.90/ft_
6" $3.63/ft $18.24/8 ft ($2.28/ft)
7" $4.34/ft $21.40/8 ft ($2.68/ft)
I guess that makes my point, Air Handling is a rip off place. Guess they gotta
pay for those donations to the TOH show somehow. I have affliation with either
company, I am just trying to prevent fellow woodworkers from being ripped off.
Brook
bfeng
Not true, there will be flow thru the 0.3 micron bag, but
at a much lower volume than thru the 30 micron bag.
--
John Feng
Vermind
>Not true, there will be flow thru the 0.3 micron bag, but
>at a much lower volume than thru the 30 micron bag.
>
Doh, as I hit the send key I thought did I cover every permutation? Nope! You
are right, mea culpa. Both bags will do some filtering, but the 30 micron bag
will only catch 30 micron and bigger stuff.
Brook
Mark Kepke
differences in filter surface area and is the DC _designed_ to blow
more/all dust to one filter.
The 30 micron bag will also change it's filtering characterstics
overtime as it fills with chips and/or dust.
But the first order answer does appear to be that you need bags top &
bottom.
-Mark