Central Machinery quality?

[Grant Echols]

I've been seeing mail order adds for a bunch of hardware
manufactured by Central Machinery in the Better Homes and Gardens
Wood magazine. Their prices look great but I don't know anything
about their quality and I haven't seen their products in any of
the tools reviews either. It looks they've got a light green color
scheme for their tools that makes me think they're a clone of
Delta but I'm not sure.

Anyone have any experience with these guys? The mail order house
that advertises them is Harbor Freight from California.

Thanks for the help,

Grant

--
Grant Echols

[Riley Elwood]

In article <4kjfeg$69g$1...@mhade.production.compuserve.com>, Grant Echols
<76247...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:

---------------

Well, Grant...I'll kick this off...I'm sure there is more to be said that
what I'm going too...

Your not going to beat Harbor Frieght's prices...It's the quality of the
products that they sell that becomes the question!

They do sell some/a few name brands which you no doubt are familiar with
and have heard about/argue about here on the rec.ww...so you get what you
pay for there...

The Central Machinery (CM) tools are made to Harbor Frieght (in Calif.)
tolorences/specifications...as I've been told by their technical assitants
when I've inquired/asked questions.

The CM brands are all made in either Taiwan or Rep. of China...best I can
determine along with there Pittsburg (Taiwanese) line...if you call they
will tell you the manufacturing source

This is where the emotions start...

CM brands are cheap imports (price attests to that)...That doesn't make
them all bad...or all good...as far as I'm concerned. So...to me, its a
matter of a reasonable assurance that what tool/material I'm buying will
do what I want it to (or expect it to)...and if I happen to get a bargin
that's OK also.

The end product justifies the means...I do woodworking as a hobby, so I
have all the time in the world to get things done and if it doesn't come
out right then I don't show it to anyboby...so you know where I'm coming
from... Two other criteria that I am very rigid about is that a tool must
not kill me or burn my house down...those two things would upset my wife

Since you haven't mentioned what tools your considering...I'll just
generalize on Taiwan and China products that I've found through
practical/hands on experience (yes I do use cheap tools...an admittance
little said on this news service)

Taiwanese tool products are generally made with "potted"/casted metal of
what I'll call a piss-poor alloy composition...weak metal/untrue surfaces.
Some smaller tools may hold up but certainly any heavy duty equipment
won't from my experience. The electrical aspect of any Taiwanese tools
I've bought (Including Sears) have been OK

Chinese tools, as far as there metal is concerned, has always impressed
me...good hard metal that dosent bend and has true surfaces. So heavier
duty/larger tools are better bought from China than Taiwan. However, the
electrical aspect of Chinese tools are very sub-par and I always inspect
them very closely before applying AC...believe me an absolute must

I did buy Harbor Frieghts floor model 10" Contractor Saw ($325)...and it
was what I expected...but I didn't get a bargin...

1) Before I bought/ordered, I called their tech assit, because I noticed
that their catalog had the same picture for two different item numbers at
two different prices ($20 delta) in two different places in the
catalog...As it turned out one is made in China and the other is made in
Tiawan...I opted for the Chinese number given it was a big piece of
equipment and structure would be more important.

2) When I got it, I had to assemble it...I didn't mind doing that...it
allowed me to familiarize myself with how it works and check things out. I
ended up tightening/retightening and aligning/realigning every
aspect/nut/bolt of the saws features to get it to cut straight (took about
three months before I was totally happy). It does not come out of the box
in any way, shape or form ready to use by just putting together the major
subassemblies...which is probably true for most all of them...

3) Since I expected the electrical control of the saw to be questionable
(and before plugging in any AC)...I wasn't suprised when one of the wire
nuts feel out of the motor junction box when I removed the plate to check
it out (I replaced all wire nut connections on the saw...with American
made hands).

4) The On/Off Push button switch stuck occasionally...when I disassembled
the switch it wasn't hard to see why/what the problem was (thank God for
our American Electrical Codes and Stabdards). I order a second one from
Harbor Frieght (no cost along with the missing arbor wrench and motor
belt)...but the replacement switch ended up having the same problem...so I
just bought (at my expense) a good push button switch and mounted/wired it
myself...I never bothered calling Harbor Frieght again about the
electrical parts quality, since I figured there wasn't much that they
could/would do about it...Buyer Beware

Well Grant...sorry to be so long winded...but that's my experience which I
think is what you wanted to here about...I still buy occasional cheap
imports and usually get what I pay for, but I've always been able to us
them...I to have noticed that Central Machinery is never rated in the wood
magazines...wonder why?

+---------------------------------+
| Regards and Happy Sawdust |
| Riley J. Elwo...@gsfc.nasa.gov |
| Laurel, MD Days: 301-286-6492 |
+---------------------------------+

[raymond r hearn]

Grant Echols <76247...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:

>I've been seeing mail order adds for a bunch of hardware
>manufactured by Central Machinery in the Better Homes and Gardens
>Wood magazine. Their prices look great but I don't know anything
>about their quality and I haven't seen their products in any of
>the tools reviews either. It looks they've got a light green color
>scheme for their tools that makes me think they're a clone of
>Delta but I'm not sure.

>Anyone have any experience with these guys? The mail order house
>that advertises them is Harbor Freight from California.

>Thanks for the help,

>Grant

>--
>Grant Echols

Grant

Central Machinery, no doubt, has excellent prices. Now the question
is whether as a hobbist or professional would you purchase them. I
for one would not, as I doubt very much that they would hold up in the
production mode over time.
As a hobbist, they just might be the ticket, for your needs and
pocketbook. But the problem arises that eventually they'll go
downhill in comparison to a Delta/Jet type tool.
If I were you, I'd look into Grizzley Products, not top of the line,
but not on the bottom either.

[JimVice]

In article <4knthq$a...@mule2.mindspring.com>, do...@atl.mindspring.com
(raymond r hearn) writes:

I have purchased a trim router, and a set of forstner bits from them and
have returned them to them as inferior products. Actually, I was being
kind to them by referring to them as being inferior. I now just throw
Harbor Freight's catalog away when it comes

Good Old Jim

I used to cry 'cause I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet!

[Brian M. Godfrey]

The drill press I bought from them arrived with the belt tension locking
screw stripped. It is a 5/16" bolt in a hole drilled and tapped into "solid"
cast iron. Within a very short time the depth stop broke. Something inside
broke, I don't know what. It's been a hassle to use for a couple of years
now and I am about to put a water sleeve on it and make it do core-drill
duty for the rest of its life.
The Central nailer I bought from them self destructed long before making
it through the first box of nails.
I won't be buying any more tools from them.

> I have purchased a trim router, and a set of forstner bits from them and
> have returned them to them as inferior products. Actually, I was being
> kind to them by referring to them as being inferior. I now just throw
> Harbor Freight's catalog away when it comes

I don't throw the catalog away because they have the cheapest price on
"china bristle" brushes and I use a lot of them spreading epoxy.

--
--Brian M. Godfrey
god...@pdx.oneworld.com
Owner: Wild Bird Shop \___Cannon Beach, OR 97110-1220
Nature Art & Sounds / 503-436-9806
Nature Works - High quality decorative fountains for the home.

[Brian M. Godfrey]

The drill press I bought from them arrived with the belt tension locking
screw stripped. It is a 5/16" bolt in a hole drilled and tapped into "solid"
cast iron. Within a very short time the depth stop broke. Something inside
broke, I don't know what. It's been a hassle to use for a couple of years
now and I am about to put a water sleeve on it and make it do core-drill
duty for the rest of its life.
The Central nailer I bought from them self destructed long before making
it through the first box of nails.
I won't be buying any more tools from them.

> I have purchased a trim router, and a set of forstner bits from them and
> have returned them to them as inferior products. Actually, I was being
> kind to them by referring to them as being inferior. I now just throw
> Harbor Freight's catalog away when it comes

I don't throw the catalog away because they have the cheapest price on

"china bristle" brushes and I use a lot of them spreading epoxy. These are
good enough brushes for one-time use.

[Brian M. Godfrey]

[Brian M. Godfrey]

Sorry about the multiple postings. Dunno what happened.

[Larry]

> +---------------------------------+I believe that "Taiwan" is the "Republic of China" they are the same country.
Not all "Chinese" tools are poor, but the ones I have bought from Harbor Freight are.
They lure you with low prices, but the quality is equally low.

However I love my Jet "Chinese" Cabinet Saw. I believe it to be superior to Delta
and a challenge to Powermatic. ( for 300-700 less).

"The quality will be remembered long after the cost has been forgotten"

Larry

[waltm]

I got a $50 drill press; it does what its supposed to, drill perpindicular holes.
Though it is not much to look at, rough castings, etc, it lets me justify woodworking
as a hobby.

[Howard Hall]

On 14 Apr 1996 02:04:43 -0400, jim...@aol.com (JimVice) wrote:

>In article <4knthq$a...@mule2.mindspring.com>, do...@atl.mindspring.com
>(raymond r hearn) writes:
>

>>Grant Echols <76247...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>>
>>>I've been seeing mail order adds for a bunch of hardware
>>>manufactured by Central Machinery in the Better Homes and Gardens
>>>Wood magazine. Their prices look great but I don't know anything
>>>about their quality and I haven't seen their products in any of
>>>the tools reviews either.

Major snip

I have purchased several small hand toold from Harbor Freight and
usually found them worth the money paid.

The only power tool purchase did not work out so well. I bought a
disk/belt sander which was stated to use a 4" X 36" belt. Nor so the
belt which came with the machine measured only 35 1/2 inches and a 36"
belt will not work.

So far I see no way to make mechanical adjustments.

Just for what it is worth!!!

[R Lindberg / E Winnie]

I believe that of the various Taiwan importers Harbor Freights have the
lowest prices and quality (yes I do own some), along with items from
Grizzly, Trendlines, Woodworkers Supply and Delta (yes they import also).
Sometimes they offer a good bang for the buck, sometimes it's just junk.
To the person who thought that all Taiwan imports are junk, you need to
look at the FWW factory tour article of a few years back, or see some of
the commercial import catalogs. Yes there is junk coming from Taiwan, but
there is also some stuff that's an excellent deal, and some stuff that is
so good and so expensive I will never buy it.

Ralph
--
Ralph Lindberg N7BSN Ellen Winnie N7PYK e-mail <drag...@scn.org>
<http://kendaco.telebyte.com/rlindber>
RV and Camping FAQ <http://kendaco.telebyte.net/rlindber/rv/>
They call it Surfn' the Net 'cause it's so easy to wipe out

[James Lemon]

I'll say this as many times as the question is asked--
Central Machinery is cheap chinese junk. We have a Harbor frieght
nearby and I went in to look at these "bargains". Not On A Bet!!
I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. Save your money.
Jim Lemon
ae...@lafn.org
--
q

[lphel...@gmail.com]

I have a central machinery router/ shaper SKU #32650 missing the router collet . Can anyone help me find one ?

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 11/14/2017 1:12 PM, lphel...@gmail.com wrote:
> SKU #32650


It is the Harbor Freight brand. Contact them for the part. Try to find
the manual on line for a parts list.

[Spalted Walt]

lphel...@gmail.com wrote:

> I have a central machinery router/ shaper SKU #32650
> missing the router collet . Can anyone help me find one ?

try eBay/Craigslist.

HF 32650 Manual/Parts list:
https://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/32000-32999/32650.pdf

[crj...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, April 11, 1996 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, Grant Echols wrote:
> I've been seeing mail order adds for a bunch of hardware
> manufactured by Central Machinery in the Better Homes and Gardens
> Wood magazine. Their prices look great but I don't know anything
> about their quality and I haven't seen their products in any of

> the tools reviews either. It looks they've got a light green color
> scheme for their tools that makes me think they're a clone of
> Delta but I'm not sure.
>
> Anyone have any experience with these guys? The mail order house
> that advertises them is Harbor Freight from California.
>
> Thanks for the help,
>
> Grant
>
> --
> Grant Echols

Some HF stuff is good but in particular I would be careful about Central Machinery products. I bought a drill press 60237 and after only a few uses the return spring broke and I am told that HF cannot get parts. This broke while I was installing a drill bit, if the machine had been running it could have been dangerous as it would allow the drill bit to drop onto anything below. I do use it at work but only occasionally so naturally the 90 day warranty was out. I always try to give manufacturers the benefit of the doubt, faulty parts are not always detectable in production, but why supply a parts list when refusing to supply the parts anyway?

And yes, someone mentioned a stripped thread - mine too.

[Spalted Walt]

crj...@gmail.com wrote:

> I bought a drill press 60237 and after only a few uses the return spring broke and I am told that HF cannot get parts.

<https://www.aliexpress.com/af/drill-spring.html>

HTH

[Larry Kraus]

Twenty-two years later...

[Vlad]

25 years later, apparently Google was the thing back in 1996 wow.

I am not sure if any of you guys are still alive, but I would love to hear your updated opinions now since market has changed a lot.

Just got myself a knee mill from HF and just having fun browsing around.

[Vlad]

Also notice guys how makers community and crafting started booming in 2016+, and since 1996 there was no discussion here. very interesting!

[Michael Trew]

On 3/5/2021 3:46 PM, Vlad wrote:
> Also notice guys how makers community and crafting started booming in 2016+, and since 1996 there was no discussion here. very interesting!

This is one of the few rather active newsgroups that I read. I
typically have nothing to reply as I don't actively do much woodworking,
but it's nice to see so little spam and a real discussion ongoing!

Perhaps I'll chime in when I start restoring my 120 year old double hung
windows.

[Leon]

On 3/5/2021 2:45 PM, Vlad wrote:
> 25 years later, apparently Google was the thing back in 1996 wow.
>
> I am not sure if any of you guys are still alive, but I would love to hear your updated opinions now since market has changed a lot.

I can assure you, all of "us guys" are still alive.

Central Machinery.. I do not recall that brand at all.

[DerbyDad03]

On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 4:20:33 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 3/5/2021 2:45 PM, Vlad wrote:
> > 25 years later, apparently Google was the thing back in 1996 wow.
> >
> > I am not sure if any of you guys are still alive, but I would love to hear your updated opinions now since market has changed a lot.
> I can assure you, all of "us guys" are still alive.

For the time being, anyway.

>
> Central Machinery.. I do not recall that brand at all.
> >

Do you not ever shop at Harbor Freight?

The Central Machinery label can be found on numerous HF items,
from $15 plastic sawhorses to $3300 backhoes. Some CM items can
be found on Amazon also. Obviously they are a re-seller of stuff
made by a number of other (mostly likely) foreign entities.

https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=central%20machinery

They even carry leg sets. ;-)

https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inch-heavy-duty-tool-stand-95128.html

[Jerry Osage]

On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 15:20:26 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 3/5/2021 2:45 PM, Vlad wrote:
>> 25 years later, apparently Google was the thing back in 1996 wow.
>>
>> I am not sure if any of you guys are still alive, but I would love to hear your updated opinions now since market has changed a lot.
>
>I can assure you, all of "us guys" are still alive.
>
>Central Machinery.. I do not recall that brand at all.
>

Spend some time in a Harbor Freight store..
--
Jerry O.

[knuttle]

I have a Central machinery drill press. I bought it for as it was about
the same price as a drill. I found that it has completely replace the
drill for projects around the shop. Would I buy it for a commercial
application, NO. But as I use it it is perfect.

Maybe with President Trumps vaccines, we can go back to Harbor Freight
and shop.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 13:36:59 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

>On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 4:20:33 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/5/2021 2:45 PM, Vlad wrote:
>> > 25 years later, apparently Google was the thing back in 1996 wow.
>> >
>> > I am not sure if any of you guys are still alive, but I would love to hear your updated opinions now since market has changed a lot.
>> I can assure you, all of "us guys" are still alive.
>
>For the time being, anyway.
>
>>
>> Central Machinery.. I do not recall that brand at all.
>> >
>
>Do you not ever shop at Harbor Freight?

Com' on. HF tools aren't green.

[DerbyDad03]

On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 5:59:58 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 13:36:59 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 4:20:33 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 3/5/2021 2:45 PM, Vlad wrote:
> >> > 25 years later, apparently Google was the thing back in 1996 wow.
> >> >
> >> > I am not sure if any of you guys are still alive, but I would love to hear your updated opinions now since market has changed a lot.
> >> I can assure you, all of "us guys" are still alive.
> >
> >For the time being, anyway.
> >
> >>
> >> Central Machinery.. I do not recall that brand at all.
> >> >
> >
> >Do you not ever shop at Harbor Freight?
> Com' on. HF tools aren't green.

Sure they are. They almost fooled me with this CM machine. ;-)

https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-x-9-in-combination-belt-and-disc-sander-61750.html

[Bob D]

> Taiwanese tool products are generally made with "potted"/casted metal of
> what I'll call a piss-poor alloy composition...weak metal/untrue surfaces

You cannot generalize on quality based on country of manufacture. Sawstop is made in Taiwan and their products are top shelf quality.

Bob

[Bob D]

On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 3:37:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> Do you not ever shop at Harbor Freight?

I buy HF brand glue brushes from Amazon. They work pretty well after the first 10 bristles fall out.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 16:58:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

<teama...@eznet.net> wrote:

>On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 5:59:58 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 13:36:59 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <teama...@eznet.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 4:20:33 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> >> On 3/5/2021 2:45 PM, Vlad wrote:
>> >> > 25 years later, apparently Google was the thing back in 1996 wow.
>> >> >
>> >> > I am not sure if any of you guys are still alive, but I would love to hear your updated opinions now since market has changed a lot.
>> >> I can assure you, all of "us guys" are still alive.
>> >
>> >For the time being, anyway.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Central Machinery.. I do not recall that brand at all.
>> >> >
>> >
>> >Do you not ever shop at Harbor Freight?
>> Com' on. HF tools aren't green.
>
>Sure they are. They almost fooled me with this CM machine. ;-)
>
>https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-x-9-in-combination-belt-and-disc-sander-61750.html

Now *that's* green! Diaper green after a good meal of strained peas.

Who would buy something that ugly?

[k...@notreal.com]

I've bought a pile of their chip brushes, foam brushes, and nitrile
gloves. The latter came in handy about a year ago.

Mechanics tools work well enough for working around the house.
Crapsman has fallen so far that they've about the same for a few times
the price. I wouldn't use them if I were a mechanic but they're great
for what I want. I'm not too worried about losing one, either.

[k...@notreal.com]

Most such tools are made in Taiwan. Yeah, Leon has an Italian Laguna
bandsaw but they're about twice the price of their Taiwanese versions.

[DerbyDad03]

On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 10:48:20 PM UTC-5, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 19:06:24 -0800 (PST), Bob D
> <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 3:37:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> Do you not ever shop at Harbor Freight?
> >
> >I buy HF brand glue brushes from Amazon. They work pretty well after the first 10 bristles fall out.
> I've bought a pile of their chip brushes, foam brushes, and nitrile
> gloves. The latter came in handy about a year ago.
>

I stock up on their nitrile gloves, especially the 5 mil (light blue), usually 3-4
boxes at a time when they go on sale. I've always got at least 1 box of the
7 & 9 mil on hand too.

I use the 5 mil for finishing, working on the cars, working with meat, etc.
I often wear them under my winter gloves when working outside. I can take
my gloves off and my hands stay warm for short tasks when I need a little
fineness. The same for when I'm raking wet leaves on a cold November day.

I'm glad I stocked up before Covid hit. They used to be in the $5/box range.
Now they are $18. HF has the same words on a sign in the stores as they
do on the website:

"Nitrile glove prices are up and supplies are low because of a worldwide
raw material shortage. Our profit margin has NOT changed and you can
be sure that when costs decrease so will our prices."

Luckily I still have 1 1/2 boxes of the $5 kind. In most cases, I get multiple
uses out of a single pair. I put on 6 coats of wipe-on poly and only used 1 pair.
Pull them off by the cuff so that they end up inside out. Let the perspiration
dry, turn them right side out, and they are good for another finishing session.
At current prices, I'm not about to throw them away after getting a little poly
on them.

[Bill]

DerbyDad03 wrote:

> I'm glad I stocked up before Covid hit. They used to be in the $5/box range.
> Now they are $18. HF has the same words on a sign in the stores as they
> do on the website:
>
> "Nitrile glove prices are up and supplies are low because of a worldwide
> raw material shortage. Our profit margin has NOT changed and you can
> be sure that when costs decrease so will our prices."
>
> Luckily I still have 1 1/2 boxes of the $5 kind. In most cases, I get multiple
> uses out of a single pair. I put on 6 coats of wipe-on poly and only used 1 pair.
> Pull them off by the cuff so that they end up inside out. Let the perspiration
> dry, turn them right side out, and they are good for another finishing session.
> At current prices, I'm not about to throw them away after getting a little poly
> on them.
>

After I went through my old $7 box from HF, I paid $23 for a box online.
I don't mind paying that for "cheap health insurance", for when I do
things like pump gas. They say the virus is mostly not transmitted that
way, but the glove make me feel safer. Wife and I just got our first
shot of the vaccine the other day, so we can sort of see the end of the
tunnel from here.

[DerbyDad03]

SWMBO got her shots last month since she's 1A. She works with disabled adults.
Physical and mental disorders. God bless her. The patience she has! She's in
charge of a green house and gardens at a day-hap and has "her guys" tend the
plants based on their abilities.

Almost every day I had been logging in to the various vaccine scheduling sites
offering vaccines. (county, pharmacies, etc.) "All appointments are filled at this
time."

Last Wednesday I logged in to a pharmacy scheduler and instead of the "No
Appointments" message, I saw a button for a city about 90 miles from me. Just
a button with a city name on it. No other words. OK, that's different. I clicked the
button, filled out the form and ended with an appointment for the upcoming Friday
- less than 48 hours from the then-current time. I'm assuming it was a cancellation.

First shot down, next shot at the end of March.

[Leon]

On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 4:20:33 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/5/2021 2:45 PM, Vlad wrote:
>>> 25 years later, apparently Google was the thing back in 1996 wow.
>>>
>>> I am not sure if any of you guys are still alive, but I would love to hear your updated opinions now since market has changed a lot.
>> I can assure you, all of "us guys" are still alive.
>
> For the time being, anyway.
>
>>
>> Central Machinery.. I do not recall that brand at all.
>>>
>
> Do you not ever shop at Harbor Freight?

Well that was what I thought was the brand that they sold. Therefore I
could offer no personal experience on that brand.


But no, I don't shop that brand at all.
I don't just collect tools, I wear them out, or used to before I started
buying Festool.;!) I do not think I would be happy with something that
is not going to last and perform as long as the brands that I buy.

>
> The Central Machinery label can be found on numerous HF items,
> from $15 plastic sawhorses to $3300 backhoes. Some CM items can
> be found on Amazon also. Obviously they are a re-seller of stuff
> made by a number of other (mostly likely) foreign entities.
>
> https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=central%20machinery
>
> They even carry leg sets. ;-)
>
> https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inch-heavy-duty-tool-stand-95128.html
>

Well what could go wrong with a steel stand? I might buy one of those
if I needed one. ;~)

[Leon]

Yeah, that looks exactly like a Festool tool,,,, NOT!!! LOL

[Leon]

Wasn't Powermatic almost that color way back when before they went to Gold?

[Leon]

I used to use the flux brushed for glue but switched to the silicone
glue brushes that Wood Craft sells. Yellow tip, Black handle.

I bought 2 and have been using the first one for 10 plus years. And Yes
I saw the second one yesterday. LOL

Easy to remove the glue if you for get to wash it out.

[Leon]

On 3/5/2021 9:48 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 19:06:24 -0800 (PST), Bob D
> <wrober...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 3:37:02 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> Do you not ever shop at Harbor Freight?
>>
>> I buy HF brand glue brushes from Amazon. They work pretty well after the first 10 bristles fall out.
>
> I've bought a pile of their chip brushes, foam brushes, and nitrile
> gloves. The latter came in handy about a year ago.

I only use Wooster Foam Brushes but I do use the HF nitrile gloves.

[Leon]

Hummmm our local store must have not gotten the message. I got my HF
gloves at the old regular price last year. But yeah, looking at the web
site they have tippled in price.

[Leon]

I try not to. ;~)

[Leon]

Yeah!!!

[Leon]

Correct. China is in outer space. Pot metal probably does not work there.
This is not a sign of quality by any stretch but some GM Buick's are
made in China

Some people will not buy quality, that is why the Asian stuff is available.

For that matter, a lot of power tools, Milwaukee is one, are made in China.

It is all to do with required specifications.

Almost everything has a Made in China or a California Cancer warning label.

I wonder if the Welcome to California road signs, at the border, have a
Cancer warning label. Those annual fires and the smoke can't be good
for you. There should certainly be a Cancer warning label on the fire
trucks.

[Leon]

It is mostly the value of the dollar that dictates the difference in
price from foreign manufacturers.

[DerbyDad03]

Do you remember when last year? Maybe they had stock left. If they are true
to their word about "profit margins" they wouldn't have raised their price until
the cheaper inventory was sold out. I don't know when my local store put up
the "profit margin" sign because I haven't shopped for gloves in a long time.
I just happened to see the sign while I was in the store for some other items.

I remember looking for a hitch for my van last year. It was obvious who was
price gouging and who wasn't. eTrailer kept their price low for in-stock items
while other places jacked up their prices as soon as the factories shot down.
Once in-stock inventories were depleted, delivery dates were measured in terms
of months across the board which made it obvious that some actual sellers
were jacking up their prices on inventory already on hand.

[k...@notreal.com]

Makes sense. Evidently they kept the same industrial design
department.

[k...@notreal.com]

After May or June of last year I got over my paranoia. Our
restaurants were only limited to curb-side for about six weeks and
were back to our normal routine immediately after. We've never been
in a tunnel but did get the second shot a month ago.

[k...@notreal.com]

Well, since you asked... I've had one of their grinder stands for
quite a while. Recently Woodcraft had a good sale on the Rikon low
speed grinder (better ones since). I bought another for it. The
latter one was pure junk. The tube is so thin that there is no way to
tighten the base tight enough, not only keep it straight, but keep it
from wobbling in use. I was thinking about the one above for both
grinders but decided against it.

[k...@notreal.com]

Maybe that's going a little far but I'll guarantee that there are
Prop-65 warnings on fire extinguishers. ...and likely on PPE, too.

[knuttle]

You must remember that all chemicals are bad. Overdoes of water killed
about 3500 people last year.

Also do you know how many people die from eating steel nut and screws?

The California laws you have to warn people about these chemical dangers.

Of course, there are other equally important lawyer warnings that appear
in many areas, such as the one not to put your hand in to the
revolving lawn mower blade.

[J. Clarke]

And the famous one on land mines--"do not eat".

[Puckdropper]

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:RvidnbtGftBDON79...@giganews.com:

>
>
> I used to use the flux brushed for glue but switched to the silicone
> glue brushes that Wood Craft sells. Yellow tip, Black handle.
>
> I bought 2 and have been using the first one for 10 plus years. And
> Yes I saw the second one yesterday. LOL
>
> Easy to remove the glue if you for get to wash it out.
>

Might work pretty good for plumbing flux too. Disposable brushes are nice,
but it just feels like such a waste when you're only doing two joints.

I'll have to look for those. How much does the silicone flex?

Puckdropper

[John Grossbohlin]

"Leon" wrote in message
news:CpKdnZjrasoHPd_9...@giganews.com...

On 3/5/2021 2:45 PM, Vlad wrote:
>> 25 years later, apparently Google was the thing back in 1996 wow.
>>
>> I am not sure if any of you guys are still alive, but I would love to
>> hear your updated opinions now since market has changed a lot.

>I can assure you, all of "us guys" are still alive.

From 25 years ago... I'm pretty sure we've lost a few. Charlie Self for
one... My last e-mail swap with him was at least 10-12+ years ago and that
was initiated as we hadn't seen him post recently. On the other hand, if
we're here to read these posts and respond we're probably still alive....
though if the gap between post and reading is too long some of us might not
be. ;~)

[Bill]

Think of how many new customers HF may have picked up in the last year
due to those gloves! The answer could be "none", but I doubt it.

[Leon]

Quite a bit. They have approximately 30 little fingers that are about
3/4" long.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/silicone-glue-brush-1

Woodcraft also sells a small green rectangular silicone container for
glue. Dried glue comes out of that easily too.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/silicone-glue-brush-tray


And I have this also for laying out glue with a roller. I do not often
use this unless I need to spread a lot of glue.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/silicone-glue-roller-and-tray

[DerbyDad03]

On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 10:52:14 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 3/6/2021 5:48 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> > Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> > news:RvidnbtGftBDON79...@giganews.com:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I used to use the flux brushed for glue but switched to the silicone
> >> glue brushes that Wood Craft sells. Yellow tip, Black handle.
> >>
> >> I bought 2 and have been using the first one for 10 plus years. And
> >> Yes I saw the second one yesterday. LOL
> >>
> >> Easy to remove the glue if you for get to wash it out.
> >>
> >
> > Might work pretty good for plumbing flux too. Disposable brushes are nice,
> > but it just feels like such a waste when you're only doing two joints.
> >
> > I'll have to look for those. How much does the silicone flex?
> >
> > Puckdropper
> >
> Quite a bit. They have approximately 30 little fingers that are about
> 3/4" long.
>
> https://www.woodcraft.com/products/silicone-glue-brush-1

Silicone is the latest rage in cookware. I have a couple of brushes like
yours for basting, buttering, etc. We also have some spatulas, stirring
spoons, etc. We haven't tried any of the muffin tins or cake/loaf pans, but
I keep thinking about it. I see them used on the cooking competition
shows all the time. The food items just pop right out, like a ice from
a plastic ice cube tray.

High heat resistance (600°), stain-resistant, non-scratch, non-reactive
to foods, etc.

You can buy food safe silicone putty to make you own molds. Mold it
around a favorite item/trinket and make personalized cookies and
candies.

One example:

https://www.smooth-on.com/tutorials/making-food-molds-silicone-putty-fast-easy-fun/

With a 3D printer, CNC machine or maybe even an Origin, the possibilities are
virtually limitless.

[Leon]

On 3/7/2021 10:18 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 10:52:14 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/6/2021 5:48 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>> news:RvidnbtGftBDON79...@giganews.com:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I used to use the flux brushed for glue but switched to the silicone
>>>> glue brushes that Wood Craft sells. Yellow tip, Black handle.
>>>>
>>>> I bought 2 and have been using the first one for 10 plus years. And
>>>> Yes I saw the second one yesterday. LOL
>>>>
>>>> Easy to remove the glue if you for get to wash it out.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Might work pretty good for plumbing flux too. Disposable brushes are nice,
>>> but it just feels like such a waste when you're only doing two joints.
>>>
>>> I'll have to look for those. How much does the silicone flex?
>>>
>>> Puckdropper
>>>
>> Quite a bit. They have approximately 30 little fingers that are about
>> 3/4" long.
>>
>> https://www.woodcraft.com/products/silicone-glue-brush-1
>
> Silicone is the latest rage in cookware. I have a couple of brushes like
> yours for basting, buttering, etc. We also have some spatulas, stirring
> spoons, etc. We haven't tried any of the muffin tins or cake/loaf pans, but
> I keep thinking about it. I see them used on the cooking competition
> shows all the time. The food items just pop right out, like a ice from
> a plastic ice cube tray.

Well for baking silicone has been around for quite a while, at least
10~15 years. I bought my wife silicone muffin tins, bread pans. She
pretty much hates them. So they tend to break down and become sticky
over a period of time. What ever is oozing out is oozing out in high
temperatures into your food.

[DerbyDad03]

Are you talking about 15 YO muffin tins or modern day muffin tins?

Compounds have probably improved.

All aluminum pots were quite the rage for a while, due to how quickly and
evenly they heated up. Now they still use aluminum as the core, but they
clad it in safer materials, materials that don't react with food.

Non-stick cookware went from Teflon to ceramic. That will probably change
over time too.

[Unquestionably Confused]

On 3/6/2021 5:48 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

Quite a bit, actually. They also come with a flexible spatula type tip
(maybe 3/4" wide). SWMBO also has some silicone pastry brushes which
would work fine, especially for glue ups of thicker stock. Haven't
priced them out but don't imagine there would be a great difference in
price.

[Leon]

Well since she had the bad luck she has not bought any more hoping that
it got better.

>
> Compounds have probably improved.

Maybe but they are still silicone unlike the examples you mentioned below.

[DerbyDad03]

On the other hand, it's possible that one might confuse a sticky residue from the
food with the breakdown of the silicone. Like I said, I've not tried any silicone
bakeware, so this may not be what you and the missus have experienced. I can
say that I have experienced sticky residue on metal cookware over time.

From: https://www.united-silicones.com/blog/how-to-clean-your-silicone-bakeware/

"However, there is one drawback that many people have found with using silicone
bakeware. Sticky film can begin to build up over time. ... Oil and grease that has
been baked onto the surface of the bakeware over time builds up when used at
high temperatures.

and from: https://www.cleanipedia.com/gb/kitchen-cleaning/how-to-clean-sticky-silicone-bakeware.html

"What is the sticky residue on silicone bakeware?

You’ve baked a delicious cake in your silicone cake pan, you’ve popped the cake onto the
cooling rack, and you’ve washed the cake tin… yet it still doesn’t feel clean. Why? Silicone
is designed to be non-stick, which makes it an excellent choice for baking cakes and
muffins, but it’s these non-stick properties that make cleaning silicone a bit tricky. The
bakeware is non-stick because it doesn’t absorb any oils or grease – it leaves them on
the surface, which helps foods to simply lift out of the pan with the slickness of the oil.
The oils cling to the silicone, which means that even after washing, a small amount of
grease may remain, which causes a tacky, almost sticky feel."

Both sites offer tips on the proper cleaning of silicone bakeware.

[k...@notreal.com]

Not many here. They didn't have any. Like others here, I bought
bunches anytime they were on sale. I even gave some away to people who
needed them more, a year or so ago. I don't really know who they went
to because my wife's church was collecting PPE for groups unknown.

[k...@notreal.com]

I just picked up a couple computer mice that had been in a drawer for
a few years. The "rubber" over-mold is about as gooey as the gum
under a third-rate diner table.

>
>Are you talking about 15 YO muffin tins or modern day muffin tins?
>
>Compounds have probably improved.
>
>All aluminum pots were quite the rage for a while, due to how quickly and
>evenly they heated up. Now they still use aluminum as the core, but they
>clad it in safer materials, materials that don't react with food.

I bought my wife a set of cookware that has a copper core stainless
cookware. They were $$$$ but she loves them. We've had time for over
ten years now, and they look and work like new. No more cookware fads
for her.

>
>Non-stick cookware went from Teflon to ceramic. That will probably change
>over time too.

If you call NOW, you can get a SECOND set for only the cost of
shipping and handling.

[Puckdropper]

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:9M2dnRXPuKg7a9n9...@giganews.com:

>
> Quite a bit. They have approximately 30 little fingers that are about
> 3/4" long.
>
> https://www.woodcraft.com/products/silicone-glue-brush-1
>

I've got those things for cooking. It's great for applying butter as you
cook shrimp on the grill. (The guy who invented the reverse sear? He
deserves the Nobel Prize.)

I'd have thought they'd be too flexible for controlling the amount of glue
you put in a project.

Puckdropper

[Jack]

On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

>> https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=central%20machinery
>>
>> They even carry leg sets. ;-)
>>
>> https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inch-heavy-duty-tool-stand-95128.html

> Well what could go wrong with a steel stand?  I might buy one of those
> if I needed one.  ;~)

Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space, why
not build your own?

They start off wrong because they have no storage, so waste whatever
space they use. Build a wood cabinet for your stationary tools, fit it
with drawers/shelves and you are good to go, and you have more space to
store all that stuff...
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

[Scott Lurndal]

Our 60-year-old+ copper bottomed Revere cookware is still plugging
along great. Look for them at flea markets, goodwill/SA, and
antique stores. Found the steamer and double boiler top pans
at a flea market just a couple years ago.

[Jack]

On 3/6/2021 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:

>> I buy HF brand glue brushes from Amazon.  They work pretty well after
>> the first 10 bristles fall out.
>

> I used to use the flux brushed for glue but switched to the silicone
> glue brushes that Wood Craft sells.  Yellow tip, Black handle.
>
> I bought 2 and have been using the first one for 10 plus years.  And Yes
> I saw the second one yesterday.  LOL
>
> Easy to remove the glue if you for get to wash it out.

Same, except I don't clean mine out. I leave it packed with glue, so
when it dries, it comes off easily and cleanly in one little glob.

It's OK to clean it but small amounts left between the bristles is hard
to clean, and it defeats the purpose of the silicone brush. Might as
well use a flux or chip brush if your gonna clean it.

[Jack]

On 3/6/2021 10:59 AM, Leon wrote:

> Hummmm our local store must have not gotten the message.  I got my HF
> gloves at the old regular price last year.  But yeah, looking at the web
> site they have tippled in price.

Have you priced lumber lately?

Just went to HD and 2x4x8 is almost $7. Oak, Maple and cherry around $20
a board foot, walnut $32/ft.

Several years ago I bought an Oak board for a door I was making and it
cost $4.something a foot. The cashier advised me the price was per
foot, not for the whole board, which was 14 ft long. I knew that but
apparently lots of people thought the price marked was per board, not
per foot...


Wonder how they like it now?


The two giant Oak tree's in my front yard are starting to look delicious...

With the USSA $30+ TRILLION in dept, and a communist administration, you
best stock up on commodities, cause cash is soon to be worthless....
--
Jack
Welcome to the Banana Republic of the USSA.

[knuttle]

Don't worry about it, Slow Jo says he is going to end child poverty just
like Lyndon Johnson "War On Poverty" did in the 50 years ago. Remember
how successful that democrat policy was?

[Leon]

On 3/8/2021 9:04 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=central%20machinery
>>>
>>> They even carry leg sets. ;-)
>>>
>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inch-heavy-duty-tool-stand-95128.html
>
>> Well what could go wrong with a steel stand?  I might buy one of those
>> if I needed one.  ;~)
>
> Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
> If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space, why
> not build your own?

Not be argumentative but the materials to build one, coupled with the
time to make it is probably going to cost me more than the HF model.

>
> They start off wrong because they have no storage, so waste whatever
> space they use. Build a wood cabinet for your stationary tools, fit it
> with drawers/shelves and you are good to go, and you have more space to
> store all that stuff...

There is that! ;~) Although I lay a piece of plywood on top of the
lower braces/supports.

[Leon]

No, the silicone bakeware was put up clean and developed this
deteriorating sticky goo sitting in the dark of the cabinet.
Trying to clean that goo off damaged the surface.

I have a similar situation on a small space heater and Logitech radio in
my garage.

Both have silicone coated control knobs and over time the surface has
deteriorated and become sticky. Obviously not the same exact product
but both and the bake ware exhibited the same deterioration in different
environments.

The sticky stuff was not a build up.

The below explanations do not address the material breaking down over
time, as the knobs on my space heater and radio exhibited.

[Leon]

This is exactly what I am talking about. Ambient room temperature being
the relative constant and the silicone breaks down on its own.
Oddly, the silicone brush and small silicone container have not
exhibited this condition.

[Leon]

Well there are those made for cooking and for applying glue. My wife
has the cooking ones for applying sauces on the grill. The fingers are
longer.

[Leon]

On 3/8/2021 9:11 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 3/6/2021 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>>> I buy HF brand glue brushes from Amazon.  They work pretty well after
>>> the first 10 bristles fall out.
>>
>> I used to use the flux brushed for glue but switched to the silicone
>> glue brushes that Wood Craft sells.  Yellow tip, Black handle.
>>
>> I bought 2 and have been using the first one for 10 plus years.  And
>> Yes I saw the second one yesterday.  LOL
>>
>> Easy to remove the glue if you for get to wash it out.
> Same, except I don't clean mine out.  I leave it packed with glue, so
> when it dries, it comes off easily and cleanly in one little glob.

I try to clean mine out, relative effortless under running water. But
some times I forget and have to remove the excess. BUT the glue needs
to dry for several days down here in humid Texas. So it is a bit more
troublesome to clean the next day. And over time 10 + years removing
the dried glue has resulted in a few missing fingers.

>
> It's OK to clean it but small amounts left between the bristles is hard
> to clean, and it defeats the purpose of the silicone brush. Might as
> well use a flux or chip brush if your gonna clean it.
>

I clean the silicone thoroughly, about 10 ~15 seconds. The flux brushes
rust over night, from the glue or water used to clean the glue out. And
then I got flakes of rust and loose hairs. I used the flux brushes for
many many years, longer than the silicone brushes. When the silicone
come out I found that they clean easier before the glue dries and the
cleaning when still uncured/wet was faster than removing the dried glue.
Removing the dried glue is interesting to get a perfect reverse mold
but I would rather clean when wet vs dry. And cleaning wet does not
result in the occasional finger breaking off with the dried glue.

[Leon]

On 3/8/2021 9:26 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 3/6/2021 10:59 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>> Hummmm our local store must have not gotten the message.  I got my HF
>> gloves at the old regular price last year.  But yeah, looking at the
>> web site they have tippled in price.
> Have you priced lumber lately?

Yes, I have pretty much been steady with jobs since last summer. There
was a big lull after the Harvey floods. I was not going to build at
insurance rates.

>
> Just went to HD and 2x4x8 is almost $7. Oak, Maple and cherry around $20
> a board foot, walnut $32/ft.

I do not buy hardwoods from HD, Lowes, or the like.
But yes some lumber has increased in price drastically.
I have seen a price increase in hardwood veneered plywoods, but not a
great increase. I have not seen a price increase with 1/2" Baltic birch
plywood, 5x5. Still just $22.95.
I have not seen a price increase with solid red oak, but white oak is
almost double red oak prices. White oak used to be about 25% more
expensive than red oak.

>
> Several years ago I bought an Oak board for a door I was making and it
> cost $4.something a foot.  The cashier advised me the price was per
> foot, not for the whole board, which was 14 ft long.  I knew that but
> apparently lots of people thought the price marked was per board, not
> per foot...

So red oak S4S 1 x 8 is about $3.65 per LF now.
White Oak S4S 1 x 10, 25% wider than the
1 x 8 mentioned above is $6.95 per LF.

Apples to apples, the red and white oak use to only differ about $1. per
LF in 1x8 a few years ago. About double that difference now.

[Scott Lurndal]

Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> writes:
>On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=central%20machinery
>>>
>>> They even carry leg sets. ;-)
>>>
>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inch-heavy-duty-tool-stand-95128.html
>
>> Well what could go wrong with a steel stand?  I might buy one of those
>> if I needed one.  ;~)
>
>Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
>If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space, why
>not build your own?
>
>They start off wrong because they have no storage, so waste whatever
>space they use.

For which all you need is a wooden base with castors. Bolt the
steel stand to the base, slap some 1/4" plywood on three sides
of the steel stand and you have a storage compartment.

I've repurposed several stands in a similar fashion.

[Scott Lurndal]

Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> writes:
>On 3/6/2021 10:59 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>> Hummmm our local store must have not gotten the message.  I got my HF
>> gloves at the old regular price last year.  But yeah, looking at the web
>> site they have tippled in price.
>Have you priced lumber lately?
>
>Just went to HD and 2x4x8 is almost $7. Oak, Maple and cherry around $20
>a board foot, walnut $32/ft.

What woodworker buys hardwoods from HD or Lowes? Crappy lumber
priced by the linear foot. Much rather buy by the board foot
at a real lumber yard with a much wider (pun intended) selection.

[Scott Lurndal]

knuttle <keith_...@sbcglobal.net> writes:

>like Lyndon Johnson "War On Poverty" did in the 50 years ago. Remember=20

>how successful that democrat policy was?

Yes, I do remember. It was quite successful in bringing large numbers
of Americans out of poverty.

[Jack]

On 3/8/2021 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 3/8/2021 9:04 AM, Jack wrote:
>> On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>
>>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=central%20machinery
>>>>
>>>> They even carry leg sets. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inch-heavy-duty-tool-stand-95128.html
>>
>>> Well what could go wrong with a steel stand?  I might buy one of
>>> those if I needed one.  ;~)
>>
>> Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
>> If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space,
>> why not build your own?
>
> Not be argumentative but the materials to build one, coupled with the
> time to make it is probably going to cost me more than the HF model.

Ya gets what you pay for. If you can't afford a few construction grade
2x's to build a tool stand/cabinet, then you probably can't afford to do
much in your shop other than stare at your tools.

I understand a commercial shop might have a lots of space, and little
time to waste not producing money items, but that applies to few, if any
in this newsgroup.

>> They start off wrong because they have no storage, so waste whatever
>> space they use. Build a wood cabinet for your stationary tools, fit it
>> with drawers/shelves and you are good to go, and you have more space
>> to store all that stuff...
>
>
> There is that!  ;~)  Although I lay a piece of plywood on top of the
> lower braces/supports.

[Jack]

On 3/8/2021 11:39 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 3/8/2021 9:26 AM, Jack wrote:

>> Just went to HD and 2x4x8 is almost $7. Oak, Maple and cherry around
>> $20 a board foot, walnut $32/ft.
>
> I do not buy hardwoods from HD, Lowes, or the like.
> But yes some lumber has increased in price drastically.
> I have seen a price increase in hardwood veneered plywoods, but not a
> great increase.  I have not seen a price increase with 1/2" Baltic birch
> plywood, 5x5.  Still just $22.95.
> I have not seen a price increase with solid red oak, but white oak is
> almost double red oak prices.  White oak used to be about 25% more
> expensive than red oak.

I probably should have noted that my HD only sells premium hard wood. #1
clear select. Lumber yards, if you have any left near you sell multiple
grades and lower prices. Here is where I got my HD prices today:

https://tinyurl.com/kf89zc87

or if you must:

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Lumber-Composites-Boards-Planks-Panels-Appearance-Boards-Planks-Hardwood-Boards/N-5yc1vZ1z18gp4/Ntk-EnrichedProductInfo/Ntt-2x4?Ntx=mode+matchpartialmax&NCNI-5

Oak, Maple, Cherry and Walnut grow like weeds in PA. At these prices the
state should be bald in the near future. I don't know what lumber yards
charge for this stuff, all the ones that used to surround me have
closed, along with tons of hardware stores.

I wouldn't doubt our commie government will soon require a government
license to buy, grow, cut, use or burn any sort of wood and be a union
member with papers verifying you had your shots before even thinking
about it.

>> Several years ago I bought an Oak board for a door I was making and it
>> cost $4.something a foot.  The cashier advised me the price was per
>> foot, not for the whole board, which was 14 ft long.  I knew that but
>> apparently lots of people thought the price marked was per board, not
>> per foot...
>
> So red oak S4S 1 x 8 is about $3.65 per LF now.
> White Oak S4S 1 x 10, 25% wider than the
> 1 x 8 mentioned above is $6.95 per LF.
>
> Apples to apples, the red and white oak use to only differ about $1. per
> LF in 1x8 a few years ago.  About double that difference now.
>
>
>>
>>
>> Wonder how they like it now?
>>
>>
>> The two giant Oak tree's in my front yard are starting to look
>> delicious...
>>
>> With the USSA $30+ TRILLION in dept, and a communist administration,
>> you best stock up on commodities, cause cash is soon to be worthless....
>

[Jack]

On 3/8/2021 12:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> writes:
>> On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>
>>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=central%20machinery
>>>>
>>>> They even carry leg sets. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inch-heavy-duty-tool-stand-95128.html
>>

>>> Well what could go wrong with a steel stand?  I might buy one of those
>>> if I needed one.  ;~)

>>
>> Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
>> If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space, why
>> not build your own?
>>
>> They start off wrong because they have no storage, so waste whatever
>> space they use.
>
> For which all you need is a wooden base with castors. Bolt the
> steel stand to the base, slap some 1/4" plywood on three sides
> of the steel stand and you have a storage compartment.
>
> I've repurposed several stands in a similar fashion.
>

That's WAY below my standards, and my standards ain't all that high.
Anyway, what's the point of 3 sides? Just stack your crap on the
base/bottom shelf?

[Jack]

On 3/8/2021 12:20 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> writes:
>> On 3/6/2021 10:59 AM, Leon wrote:
>>

>>> Hummmm our local store must have not gotten the message.  I got my HF
>>> gloves at the old regular price last year.  But yeah, looking at the web

>>> site they have tippled in price.
>> Have you priced lumber lately?
>>
>> Just went to HD and 2x4x8 is almost $7. Oak, Maple and cherry around $20
>> a board foot, walnut $32/ft.
>
> What woodworker buys hardwoods from HD or Lowes? Crappy lumber
> priced by the linear foot. Much rather buy by the board foot
> at a real lumber yard with a much wider (pun intended) selection.

I bought one oak board at HD because it was easy and close, and I was
there. To travel to a yard that actually had that one board I needed
would not have saved me much, if anything. Thanks for wondering though.

The board was primo, not "crappy" at all. What makes you say it was
crappy? I think (know) you are making that up. 50 years of building
cabinets I know what "crappy" lumber is, and this wasn't it.

[Leon]

On 3/8/2021 12:25 PM, Jack wrote:
> On 3/8/2021 11:39 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/8/2021 9:26 AM, Jack wrote:
>
>>> Just went to HD and 2x4x8 is almost $7. Oak, Maple and cherry around
>>> $20 a board foot, walnut $32/ft.
>>
>> I do not buy hardwoods from HD, Lowes, or the like.
>> But yes some lumber has increased in price drastically.
>> I have seen a price increase in hardwood veneered plywoods, but not a
>> great increase.  I have not seen a price increase with 1/2" Baltic
>> birch plywood, 5x5.  Still just $22.95.
>> I have not seen a price increase with solid red oak, but white oak is
>> almost double red oak prices.  White oak used to be about 25% more
>> expensive than red oak.
>
> I probably should have noted that my HD only sells premium hard wood. #1
> clear select. Lumber yards, if you have any left near you sell multiple
> grades and lower prices. Here is where I got my HD prices today:
>
> https://tinyurl.com/kf89zc87
>
> or if you must:
>
> https://www.homedepot.com/b/Lumber-Composites-Boards-Planks-Panels-Appearance-Boards-Planks-Hardwood-Boards/N-5yc1vZ1z18gp4/Ntk-EnrichedProductInfo/Ntt-2x4?Ntx=mode+matchpartialmax&NCNI-5
>

So I have looked at the hardwoods at HD but the pricing is about double
what I pay. So I do not buy there.

>
> Oak, Maple, Cherry and Walnut grow like weeds in PA. At these prices the
> state should be bald in the near future.  I don't know what lumber yards
> charge for this stuff, all the ones that used to surround me have
> closed, along with tons of hardware stores.

There is plenty of oak down here, not so much cherry or walnut. The
suppliers that I go to really do not handle construction grade
materials. They cater to the trades/woodworkers.

[Leon]

I'm hoping Maple, cherry around $20 a board foot was a type-o. Same for
walnut.

[Jack]

It was certainly successful in destroying the black community, something
Johnson himself knew would happen. If you think living on welfare and
food stamps is living "out of poverty" you are dead wrong!

It was worth it though, because the black community suddenly needed the
commies in power to survive, or so they were led to believe. They are
applying the same socialist techniques to the rest of the country as we
speak, and doing quite well. Soon, we'll ALL be living "out of poverty"

--
Jack
Welcome to the Banana Republic of the USSA!

[Leon]

On 3/8/2021 11:52 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 3/8/2021 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/8/2021 9:04 AM, Jack wrote:
>>> On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>
>>>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=central%20machinery
>>>>>
>>>>> They even carry leg sets. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inch-heavy-duty-tool-stand-95128.html
>>>
>>>> Well what could go wrong with a steel stand?  I might buy one of
>>>> those if I needed one.  ;~)
>>>
>>> Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
>>> If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space,
>>> why not build your own?
>>
>> Not be argumentative but the materials to build one, coupled with the
>> time to make it is probably going to cost me more than the HF model.
>
> Ya gets what you pay for. If you can't afford a few construction grade
> 2x's to build a tool stand/cabinet, then you probably can't afford to do
> much in your shop other than stare at your tools.

Quite the contrary. As I tell my customers, don't worry about the
materials cost, it is the labor that is expensive. If you want a
premium wood vs. stained red oak, the price difference in the finished
product will not be that much percentage wise.

>
> I understand a commercial shop might have a lots of space, and little
> time to waste not producing money items, but that applies to few, if any
> in this newsgroup.

Well I am not production 100% of the time but still try not to spend my
building time on things that eat into money making time. I get what you
are saying but I would build the stand with furniture grade materials
vs, construction grade materials. I would end up milling the 2x's stock
into 1x. And I would prefer a hardwood vs, spruce, pine, or fir.

[Jack]

Not a typo, I posted the link to my HD store, did you look?

I wouldn't mind a link to where you buy your #1 select maple or cherry
for half that price. Not saying I don't believe you but it's interesting
for sure. I myself had NO idea lumber has gotten this expensive.

Does this stuff even grow in Texas? I thought live oak, whatever that
is, is what was growing down there. They used that for boat hulls in
the distant past, to stop canon balls, right.

I only got into this because I saw a local guy on YouTube cutting up oak
and cherry for firewood, and he OWNS a nice sawmill... He said he only
mills hardwood 21" and over for lumber. I think he got a zillion folks
telling him he was a fool. He owns a 100 acres of woods, so he has a lot
of raw product for lumber and firewood. He sells firewood, and I'll bet
sooner or later he'll be selling lots of lumber, and little firewood,
and sooner than later..

[k...@notreal.com]

On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 13:50:33 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

>On 3/8/2021 12:21 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> knuttle <keith_...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
>>
>>> like Lyndon Johnson "War On Poverty" did in the 50 years ago. Remember=20
>>> how successful that democrat policy was?
>>
>> Yes, I do remember. It was quite successful in bringing large numbers
>> of Americans out of poverty.
>It was certainly successful in destroying the black community, something
>Johnson himself knew would happen. If you think living on welfare and
>food stamps is living "out of poverty" you are dead wrong!

Breaking up the black family. Well, that's _exactly_ what the left
wants now, too, except every family. BLM *is* the Democratic party.

>
>It was worth it though, because the black community suddenly needed the
>commies in power to survive, or so they were led to believe. They are
>applying the same socialist techniques to the rest of the country as we
>speak, and doing quite well. Soon, we'll ALL be living "out of poverty"

Yep. Soon we'll all be living off the scraps the elite leave us.
French Revolution anyone?

[k...@notreal.com]

You don't use the same ones? I saw one drying by the kitchen sink
earlier. I though, "humm... nah".

[k...@notreal.com]

On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 12:52:27 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

>On 3/8/2021 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/8/2021 9:04 AM, Jack wrote:
>>> On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>
>>>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=central%20machinery
>>>>>
>>>>> They even carry leg sets. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inch-heavy-duty-tool-stand-95128.html
>>>
>>>> Well what could go wrong with a steel stand?  I might buy one of
>>>> those if I needed one.  ;~)
>>>
>>> Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
>>> If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space,
>>> why not build your own?
>>
>> Not be argumentative but the materials to build one, coupled with the
>> time to make it is probably going to cost me more than the HF model.
>
>Ya gets what you pay for. If you can't afford a few construction grade
>2x's to build a tool stand/cabinet, then you probably can't afford to do
>much in your shop other than stare at your tools.
>
>I understand a commercial shop might have a lots of space, and little
>time to waste not producing money items, but that applies to few, if any
>in this newsgroup.

Well, I have little time because I'm still employed but I have all the
space I need. I have about 2000ft^2 of unfinished basement. ;-)

I have enough room that none of the tools has to be moved. I do move
the lunchbox planer and drum sander to get them closer to the dust
collector.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 13:29:48 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

>On 3/8/2021 12:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> writes:
>>> On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>
>>>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=central%20machinery
>>>>>
>>>>> They even carry leg sets. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inch-heavy-duty-tool-stand-95128.html
>>>

>>>> Well what could go wrong with a steel stand?  I might buy one of those
>>>> if I needed one.  ;~)

>>>
>>> Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
>>> If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space, why
>>> not build your own?
>>>
>>> They start off wrong because they have no storage, so waste whatever
>>> space they use.
>>
>> For which all you need is a wooden base with castors. Bolt the
>> steel stand to the base, slap some 1/4" plywood on three sides
>> of the steel stand and you have a storage compartment.
>>
>> I've repurposed several stands in a similar fashion.
>>
>That's WAY below my standards, and my standards ain't all that high.
>Anyway, what's the point of 3 sides? Just stack your crap on the
>base/bottom shelf?

So you can stack more crap without it falling on the floor, of course.

[Unquestionably Confused]

But how many did it raise out of poverty in such a manner than they
became self-supporting, productive members of society vs. those "raised"
out of poverty by increased government handouts which continued to
increase to maintain the fallacy that they are out of poverty?

I believe that there is a place for welfare but there must be a
concurrent effort to get people off the dole and become productive.
That doesn't appear to be in the politicians agenda. Keep them
beholden, keep them voting (for me) seems to be the goal.

The bright line test for eligibility for welfare is in itself a
deterrent to self sufficiency. They put the people on welfare and then
cut them off completely when they get $XXXX in income. Would it not
incentivize the majority to GRADUALLY trim back the welfare payments as
they gain self-sufficiency to encourage them to earn more without fear
of losing all their government support at once.

All they've done is create generations wholly dependent on the dole with
little interest in getting ahead. "I need more money, send the baby
daddy around to impregnate me and let's hope for twins this time!"

Just to keep it somewhat on topic, government's handling of this makes
me want to grab a 2 x and lay it up along someone's head! ;)

[J. Clarke]

I've always felt that the system should be set up so that you're
_always_ better off if you work.

[Spalted Walt]

Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On 3/8/2021 12:21 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > knuttle <keith_...@sbcglobal.net> writes:
> >
> >> like Lyndon Johnson "War On Poverty" did in the 50 years ago. Remember=20
> >> how successful that democrat policy was?
> >
> > Yes, I do remember. It was quite successful in bringing large numbers
> > of Americans out of poverty.
> It was certainly successful in destroying the black community, something
> Johnson himself knew would happen. If you think living on welfare and
> food stamps is living "out of poverty" you are dead wrong!
>
> It was worth it though, because the black community suddenly needed the
> commies in power to survive, or so they were led to believe.

+1
<https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9f/64/04/9f6404b1f059ab934f72c9988b7a15ea--democratic-party-american-presidents.jpg>

[J. Clarke]

According to official figures that do _not_ count food stamps or
welfare as income, the poverty rate fell from about 22.5% to 11.2%
between 1959 and 1974.

The trouble is that it hasn't fallen much more since, despite
government spending on poverty programs going from 100 billion in 1974
to over 500 billion in 2011.

Clearly that extra 400 billion isn't going anywhere that actually
helps people and we as a society should be trying to find out why.

[DerbyDad03]

Are you doing anything to be part of that "we"?

I, admittedly, am not.

[Jack]

On 3/8/2021 1:56 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 3/8/2021 11:52 AM, Jack wrote:
>> On 3/8/2021 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 3/8/2021 9:04 AM, Jack wrote:
>>>> On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=central%20machinery
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They even carry leg sets. ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inch-heavy-duty-tool-stand-95128.html
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Well what could go wrong with a steel stand?  I might buy one of
>>>>> those if I needed one.  ;~)
>>>>
>>>> Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
>>>> If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space,
>>>> why not build your own?
>>>
>>> Not be argumentative but the materials to build one, coupled with the
>>> time to make it is probably going to cost me more than the HF model.
>>
>> Ya gets what you pay for. If you can't afford a few construction grade
>> 2x's to build a tool stand/cabinet, then you probably can't afford to
>> do much in your shop other than stare at your tools.
>
> Quite the contrary.  As I tell my customers, don't worry about the
> materials cost, it is the labor that is expensive.  If you want a
> premium wood vs. stained red oak, the price difference in the finished
> product will not be that much percentage wise.

You mentioned the material cost and time to build one, so you are being
argumentative, with yourself.

>> I understand a commercial shop might have a lots of space, and little
>> time to waste not producing money items, but that applies to few, if
>> any in this newsgroup.
>
> Well I am not production 100% of the time but still try not to spend my
> building time on things that eat into money making time.  I get what you
> are saying but I would build the stand with furniture grade materials
> vs, construction grade materials.  I would end up milling the 2x's stock
> into 1x.  And I would prefer a hardwood vs, spruce, pine, or fir.

Not to be argumentative, but I personally like the looks of varnished
pine for all my stands and work benches. Furniture grade cabinets in a
workshop just look wrong. I would not want an oak or cherry lathe stand,
or BS stand. Expensive hardwood looks out of place in a shop, to me. The
first thing I built in my shop was a work bench. Made it out of #4 pine
sheathing they sold cheap for roofs. Still looks great 50 years later
and all the drawers work as good as the day I built it. I learned a ton
building it as well, and everything a built subsequently benefited from
doing it.

To each their own I reckon.

Anyway hobbyist like pervade this group are not earning a living with
their shop, they are in it for the enjoyment. From what I read here,
most would benefit a good deal by building their own stuff rather than
buying cheap ass metal junk, and they could enjoy their work forever.

Regardless, cheap metal stands like they sell at HF suck, imnsho.

[Jack]

On 3/8/2021 5:01 PM, k...@notreal.com wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 12:52:27 -0500, Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On 3/8/2021 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 3/8/2021 9:04 AM, Jack wrote:
>>>> On 3/6/2021 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 3/5/2021 3:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=central%20machinery
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They even carry leg sets. ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.harborfreight.com/29-inch-heavy-duty-tool-stand-95128.html
>>>>
>>>>> Well what could go wrong with a steel stand?  I might buy one of
>>>>> those if I needed one.  ;~)
>>>>
>>>> Personally you couldn't give me one of those stands.
>>>> If you're a woodworker, particularly a hobbyist with limited space,
>>>> why not build your own?
>>>
>>> Not be argumentative but the materials to build one, coupled with the
>>> time to make it is probably going to cost me more than the HF model.
>>
>> Ya gets what you pay for. If you can't afford a few construction grade
>> 2x's to build a tool stand/cabinet, then you probably can't afford to do
>> much in your shop other than stare at your tools.
>>
>> I understand a commercial shop might have a lots of space, and little
>> time to waste not producing money items, but that applies to few, if any
>> in this newsgroup.
>
> Well, I have little time because I'm still employed but I have all the
> space I need. I have about 2000ft^2 of unfinished basement. ;-)

Having space means you don't need mobile cabinets much. Time however is
a non-issue unless you earn a living doing woodwork. Hobbyist are not
doing it to save time, or earn a living. Time is money only if you are
using your time to make money. Coming home from work and slithering into
your shop to relax is a different animal.

You, for example have been buying all kinds of nice tools for your giant
shop. I highly recommend you build some nice cabinets for them, complete
with drawers and such to store stuff. You might even learn how to use
them so when your wife asks you to build her a rocking chair, you might
know how they work.

The bonus is when you enter your shop after work, you can re-enjoy your
accomplishments, MUCH more than cheap metal stands you bought at HD with
a cheap hunk of plywood for a lousy shelf, or a "workbench" you "built"
with your credit card at Walmart.

> I have enough room that none of the tools has to be moved. I do move
> the lunchbox planer and drum sander to get them closer to the dust
> collector.
>
>>>> They start off wrong because they have no storage, so waste whatever
>>>> space they use. Build a wood cabinet for your stationary tools, fit it
>>>> with drawers/shelves and you are good to go, and you have more space
>>>> to store all that stuff...

>>> There is that!  ;~)  Although I lay a piece of plywood on top of the
>>> lower braces/supports.