Want to buy a table saw...need advise!
sfi...@violet.ccit.arizona.edu
I'm finally in a position to buy a 10" table saw...and I'm looking for advise.
I can probably spend around $1000 so I'm looking to get a serious saw.
I've been looking at places loke Sears and local Hardware stores and
everything I see is garbage. They all look like there made out of plastic,
the rip fences dont move smoothly...just shitty. I'm wondering if it
wouldnt be better to buy an older remanufactured saw (from like 20 years
ago, when they seemed to know how to make tools) or maybe try some of these
mail order manufactures advertised in Fine Woodworking and such.
Basically, I'm looking for advise on how to buy the best table saw. Who
makes the best saw, what the best saw has or doesnt have. How much will
it cost, etc. Any input will be helpful, cause I have A feeling I'm gonna
have this saw for a LONG time...
Thanks in Advance
Sean
-------------
Sean T. Finney | Notice: All speling and/or grametical errers
sfi...@ccit.arizona.edu | be the result of network interpherance.
Rick Lawrence Dulas
I have a Delta/Rockwell contractor's saw with a 2 hp motor, a 50" Biesmeyer
fence, and home constructed wings. Wings are Alder with 3/4" Red-X tops covered
with white formica. I built a whole house full of cabinets, and several more
projects with no trouble whatsoever. With a Freud 72LU(?) I ripped a piece
of red oak 2 1/2" thick 8' long with no bog or burn. YMMV.
All in all, I'd like a uni-saw. ;-) But this setup is gold for me.
Rick
Dean Hewitt
it. With the 12" blade you can saw full 4" thick lumber. The fence is very
accurate and does not need replacing like many of the other saws on the
market. The arbor is 1" in diameter for added strength and stability. In
addition you can attach a chuck to the arbor and create a horizonal mortisen
table. I have used mine for the last 5 years and have had no troubles with
it.
Dean Hewitt
Dean Hewitt
table saws.
From wk0...@WORLDLINK.COM Sun Jan 23 11:07:43 1994
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From: Abacus <wk0...@WORLDLINK.COM>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 1994 19:07:43 GMT
Date-Received: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 18:24:40 GMT
Subject: Inca vs other tablesaws
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Does anyone have personal experience with the Inca 2100SE table saw? I have
access to one for a pretty good price, and am impressed by what I've seen. If
you've used one, do you like it? Have you used the optional mortising table?
Comments?
I'm a little bit concerned about possible lack of availability of after-
market do-dads and replacement parts. Is Garrett-Wade (and it's affiliates)
the only source for these?
More generally, I've seen posted here references to recent tablesaw
comparison articles in FWW and in WOOD. Is the Inca included? In what issues
do these articles appear? Any other comparison articles I can look up?
Thanks!
-Clifford Baron
From kr...@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com Mon Jan 24 08:39:35 1994
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From: kr...@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Joseph Kral)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 16:39:35 GMT
Date-Received: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 16:47:49 GMT
Subject: Re: Inca vs other tablesaws
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In article <940123190...@worldlink.worldlink.com> Abacus <wk0...@WORLDLINK.COM> writes:
>Does anyone have personal experience with the Inca 2100SE table saw? I have
>access to one for a pretty good price, and am impressed by what I've seen. If
>you've used one, do you like it? Have you used the optional mortising table?
>Comments?
>
>I'm a little bit concerned about possible lack of availability of after-
>market do-dads and replacement parts. Is Garrett-Wade (and it's affiliates)
>the only source for these?
>
>More generally, I've seen posted here references to recent tablesaw
>comparison articles in FWW and in WOOD. Is the Inca included? In what issues
>do these articles appear? Any other comparison articles I can look up?
>
So, remind me. Whats the 2100SE? Is it the 10" tilt-table or the 12"
tilt-arbor? A friend of mine has both, so he could tell you whats what
with them. Garrett-Wade has a west coast affiliate is southern CA. They
handle Inca parts.
--
Joseph Kral
kr...@hpljlk.hpl.hp.com
From ben...@adobe.co Mon Jan 24 16:49:42 1994
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From: ben...@adobe.com(Bennett Leeds)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 00:49:42 GMT
Date-Received: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 15:14:07 GMT
Subject: Re: Inca vs other tablesaws
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Clifford Baron writes
> Does anyone have personal experience with the Inca 2100SE table saw?
Here's my precanned comments on the 2100 I've owned for almost 5 years now.
I should update it, as apparently Inca is moving production from Switzerland
to France, and changing from the anodized aluminum top to a cast iron top
supposedly because "it's cheaper to make cast iron" (according to the
Inca dealer in LA, whom I trust reasonably well). I don't know if the new
top will have different sized miter gauge slots or not.
Overall Inca things:
Most Inca machines are made in Switzerland. Their machines use lots of
aluminum for structural parts (castings, tables, fences, rails, etc), which
cuts down on weight and reduces the chances of warping and rusting. The tools
come with a 5 year warranty. Many of the machines are quite compact (10"
tablesaw, 10.5" bandsaw, jointer/planer), which make them great for home shops;
the aluminum construction keeps them light as well. Vibration is not a problem
as Inca uses good design and balancing, not weight, to acheive smoothness.
While you may find that a machine is not robust enough for commercial shop
abuse, nothing is cheaply made - the fit and finish are superb throughout.
Things like pulleys are machined, not cast. The aluminum tops are anodized for
strength. Things like gears are made from stainless steel.
Inca machines are expensive compared to most home use equipment, but
are reasonably priced compared to commerical machines. For the money, they are
better for craftsman use than the commercial machines, which are designed for
kitchen cabinet contractors, not furniture makers. I can't stress this last
point enough.
Many people dismiss Inca because of their 10" tablesaw, model 250/259.
This saw has some quoibles that render it inappropriate for many people: a
nonstandard arbor diameter (20 mm) {reason: more support than a 5/8" arbor}, a
tilting table {so you can put a mortising table on it}, the inability to bury a
10" blade below the table {no excuse here}, and a small table size (it is also
not built to take a pounding). What drives everybody crazy is that this is one
of the most accurate saws available, which is what attracts them to it in the
first place. But, unless you make only small things like jewlery boxes or
non-large musical instruments, this saw is not for you. It is perfect, however,
for these small things which require fanatical accuracy (and a small tilting
table isn't a bother). Anyway, Inca makes a number of precision woodworking
machines other than this controversial saw.
Inca 2100SE 12" Tablesaw specifics:
I think this is Inca's best machine. It has two disadvantages: 1) The
cost (it goes "on-sale" at Garrett Wade a couple times a year at $2200), and 2)
the miter slots are not the standard width. Note that #1 is a biggie, since
accessories for this saw are even more expensive, on a relative basis, than
accessories for other machines, and only partly due to the larger blade.
12" diameter blade, 1" tilting arbor, belt drive. The arbor is massive
- *much* larger and heavier than the Unisaw's arbor. I put a dial indicator on
the arbor (as far away from the bearings as possible) and it was dead nuts on -
the needle didn't even wiggle. The arbor flanges are so massive that even
Forrest, who always recommends blade stabilizers for their blades, says they
aren't needed with the Inca. The arbor is designed so that all blades, dado
cutters, moulding heads, etc, are always seated on the smooth, machined part of
the arbor, never on the threads, thanks to spacers and a trick flange (this is
really nice if you're using shims on a dado set, which I've heard can get stuck
in the threads on other machines). I've got the standard 3HP 220 volt motor,
magnetic switch (other hp and voltages are available). This saw cuts everything
I feed it - 8/4 maple or purpleheart, resawing 4" worth of oak or walnut
(before I got a bandsaw) - without even a hint of straining (the standard blade
that comes with the saw is excellent, btw).
The main table is 27" wide by 32" deep (without extensions). Yes,
that's 32" from front to back (Unisaw/Powermatics are 27", General is 28"). It
is cast aluminum, with heavy ribbing underneath and two T shaped miter slots
above. There is 12" of table in front of the fully raised blade (4" depth of
cut), and plenty in back as well. There is an integral blade splitter that
rises with the blade but does not project above it, so you can always leave it
in place, unless you mount a thin kerf blade or a dado blade. It works
wonderfully. The standard guard has two independently swinging clear plastic
sides and antifeedback pauls, but like all splitter-mounted guards can't be
used for groove cuts or tenoning. While it is good for a standard guard, I
bought the SUVA guard, which "floats" above the blade on its own arm (the Delta
UniGuard is similar). I've not needed the anti-kickback pauls. The only problem
with the SUVA guard is that the arm swings up on the right instead of the left
(more on this later *).
The standard rip fence has a 27" width capacity, and is aftermarket rip
fence quality (the only aftermarket fence I think might be better is the
Paralock). The Inca uses front and back rails that fit in keys dovetailed in
the main table. It is very easy to slide the rails to the left or right, if
that's the kind of thing you do often (this has actually been useful). The
rails are each one piece of extruded aluminum. The fence itself automatically
clamps only at the front, but there is a clamp at back that you can manually
tighten, if you want for additonal stability (I haven't seen the need) or to
use hold downs (for the light pressure I normally use on my wheels I don't
usually bother).
There is secondary fence that has three postions (low, medium, and high
heights, low is useful for laminate overhangs, high for panel raising),
attaches to the main rip fence body (this is similar in concept to the
Unifence, except here the main fence goes all the way across and is lockable at
the rear), and has T slots for Shophelpers or other fences, jigs, etc.(like
Excalibur), and has square corners (the Unifence has curves), making jigging
easier. The fence has a magnifying cursor, with 1/32" gradations the entire
length (not just the first foot). A metric ruler is also available. Because of
the magnifying cursor, picking between the marks is pretty easy, too. It's easy
to attach shop built wooden fences to the secondary fence using the T-slots.
I got the optional micro-adjuster (~$45) that lets you incrementally
adjust the fence by measured amounts of 0.004" (easy to break this down to
0.002" by eye) (sure beats tapping the fence with your hand!). I also bought
longer rails - over 50" of cut. The rulers slide in dovetailed ways in the
rails (which slide in the tables dovetails themselves), so readjusting zero
(like when you add a shop built fence or put in a dado blade) is fast and easy.
The extension wings are made exactly like the main table - and cost
over $500 (ouch!). Lately they've been on sale for about $150. They slide in
the dovetails of the fence rails, and are supported by them (You should have a
leg at the outer rail end for this). They also have a place for you to mount a
Porter-Cable router from underneath. I built my own extension table with a
router insert (The dovetailed rails make leveling the extension with the table
automatic if you make it the right thickness). Having this kind of fence in a
router table is a true luxury (but is quickly becoming a necessity; how soon I
forget...). The Inca dealer in LA sells Woodhaven tables specially modified to
fit in the rip fence rails, but I've built my own.
The blade insert plate has 9 hex screws for leveling. It fits
seamlessly and is secured in front with a screw. Extra plates cost $50 - so I
make my dado and molding head insert plates out of wood. I run the 10" Freud
dado cutters (1" arbor) without a hitch. I also have a 6" diameter by 1.75"
wide moulding head, made by Leitz, that gives me a resonable approximation of a
tilting head shaper. The cutters are made from HSS. I got the kit with 36
profiles for about $300 (it's not available anymore), but haven't used it much
yet.
The tilt mechansim of the arbor is smooth, the front panel is gradated
in 1/2 degree increments, with built-in vernier cursors for 1/6 degree
settings. The blade height guage is marked in 1/32" increments, and is accurate
if you always approach your setting from the same side. One unique feature is
that the arbor travels straight up and down, not in an arc like most saws. This
doesn't make much difference for sawing (except the deepest part of the cut
doesn't change position on the table which helps for jig aligments), but was
done because the other side of the arbor is ready for a 5/8" drill chuck to be
used as a horizontal mortiser (table goes on sale for abot $750, which is still
too much money).
The miter guage is the closest thing to an Accu-miter that I've seen.
The bar is aluminum (extra T bars in various lengths are available), as is the
head and detachable fence. I got a longer fence, and a extra drop stop (one is
standard) (works similarly to the Accu-miter, except the fence doesn't
telescope).
The blade sits inside a closed airfoil, with a built-in dust collection
attachment for a 4" hose (no need to cover the motor and seal as many openings
as possible in the cabinet, etc.). There is a hole in the top to insert a metal
rod (supplied) to lock the arbor while you change blades (no need to jam a
block in the blade to stop the rotation). The saw comes with a complete tool
set (metric, of course) for all nuts & bolts & adjustments. You can also get a
sliding table attachment for it (again, for you plywood lovers), which seemed
pretty good to me when I looked at it in the store. There is an overdesigned
tenoning attachment (with blade cover) that costs more than some entire
Taiwanese saws, a reasonable finger joint attachment for the miter guage (I got
this because it provides an easy way to attach boards to the mitre guage), a
selection of insert plates, some assorted hardware for the rip fence (moulding
head wooden auxilary fence, and some things I've forgotten.
I wholeheartedly recommend this saw without reservation to anyone who
can afford it. It has all the accuracy of the legendary Inca 10" saw, with none
of its quiobbles. On special, this saw is worth the extra bucks over a Unisaw
with Unifence, a Powermatic 66 with Biesemeyer, or even a General 350 with an
aftermarket fence, IMHO.
- Bennett Leeds
ben...@adobe.com
PS: I have no connection with Inca or Garrett-Wade.
* - One feature of the saw is that the rip fence rails slide in dovetailed ways
machined in the table top (there are 4 knobs to lock them in place). This means
you can have the rip fence's width capacity at the left or right, as you prefer
(you could even split the difference if you wanted). Since the ruler also
slides in a dovetailed way in the fence rail, this is a quick and easy thing to
try out.
The saw's blade tilts to the right, like almost all saws (the Powertmatic 66 is
a notable exception). For beveled rips, it's safer to have the blade tilt away
from the rip fence - thus the fence has to be to the left of the blade.
The optional SUVA guard I bought has an arm that swings up at the right of the
saw (about 30" away from the blade). that means if I rip anything to the right
of the blade wider than 30", I can't use the guard. This isn't too bad since
the guard swings away easily, and with a rip that wide you're not likely to get
your hands near the blade, but it's not optimal.
Anyway, the blade tilt and overarm guard location convinced me to try the rip
fence at the left of the blade. The arrangement seems to be working well for me
so far ('bout a year now). Note that the arbor end on which you can fit the
drill chuck for the mortising feature is at the right of the saw, so perhaps
the saw was designed for this "leftie" use (I'm right handed, BTW).
> Have you used the optional mortising table?
No. The Inca table is almost as expensive as an entire "Multi-Router" setup,
which is a more flexible arrangement. The Robland mortising table will
also fit, however, and that's priced more reasonably.
> I'm a little bit concerned about possible lack of availability of after-
> market do-dads and replacement parts. Is Garrett-Wade (and it's affiliates)
> the only source for these?
Yup. GW's been carring Inca for well over a decade now (longer than Grizzly's
been in business). However, there is a risk that GW will eventually no longer
carry Inca or that Inca will go out of business. It is definitely more risky
than buying Delta. Personally, I find the machine to be so well built that
I'm not worried about parts availability. And, the standard equipment (miter
gauge, rip fence, etc.) is so good that you don't need aftermarket stuff.
- Bennett Leeds
ben...@mv.us.adobe.com
From fau...@hannover.sgp.slb.com Tue Jan 25 09:09:25 1994
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From: fau...@hannover.sgp.slb.com (Stan Faullin)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 17:09:25 GMT
Date-Received: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 15:14:09 GMT
Subject: Re: Inca vs other tablesaws
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In article <1994Jan25....@adobe.com> ben...@adobe.com(Bennett Leeds) writes:
>From: ben...@adobe.com(Bennett Leeds)
>Subject: Re: Inca vs other tablesaws
>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 1994 00:49:42 GMT
>Clifford Baron writes
>> Does anyone have personal experience with the Inca 2100SE table saw?
>Here's my precanned comments on the 2100 I've owned for almost 5 years now.
>I should update it, as apparently Inca is moving production from Switzerland
>to France, and changing from the anodized aluminum top to a cast iron top
>supposedly because "it's cheaper to make cast iron" (according to the
>Inca dealer in LA, whom I trust reasonably well). I don't know if the new
>top will have different sized miter gauge slots or not.
>Overall Inca things:
> Most Inca machines are made in Switzerland. Their machines use lots of
-stuff deleted
Are there optional rails available for cutting 50" or so to the right of the
blade?
to...@merlin.cobb.ziff.com
> Hi all,
>
> I'm finally in a position to buy a 10" table saw...and I'm looking for advise.
> I can probably spend around $1000 so I'm looking to get a serious saw.
> I've been looking at places loke Sears and local Hardware stores and
> everything I see is garbage. They all look like there made out of plastic,
> the rip fences dont move smoothly...just shitty. I'm wondering if it
> wouldnt be better to buy an older remanufactured saw (from like 20 years
> ago, when they seemed to know how to make tools) or maybe try some of these
> mail order manufactures advertised in Fine Woodworking and such.
I bought my Unisaw + big Biesmeier fence for < $1000 used, not abused (from a
cabinet shop). I recommend this approach, but educate yourself first. YMMV,
and let the buyer beware.
--
** to...@merlin.cobb.ziff.com | (502) 491-1900 x401 | All opinions my own **
Wasn't very large/there was just enough room/to cram the drums/
in the corner over by the Dodge... Joe's Garage, Frank Zappa :(
Mark Williams
rip fences on table saws work poorly, so an upgraded rip fence is really
desirable (either the Biesemeyer, Vega, Paralok or Excaliber). Buid a
sliding table jig too, so you can better do crosscuts. (Crosscuts are
the forte of the Radial Arm Saw, or the sliding compound miter
saw, another story). With this in mind, here are some options:
The Powermatic 63 is a delight to 3 people I know who own one, but it
has lately been reported to have the usual Taiwan quality control problems.
It has a suberb Vega fence, and a robust 2 HP motor. ($750)
Another contender is a Sears table saw with Biesemeyer fence built in. ($750)
I point this one out for completeness, as it lacks the power of the Vega,
but some poeple really like that brand. For those who own a Sears saw and
would like a better fence, Sears is selling the Biesemeyer fence separately
for $250 (catalog: #24833). The Vega fence is cheaper and comparable ($170).
The Delta contractors saw is oft recommended, with a Unifence. ($850?)
This is the classic midrange saw, with good power and excellent quality.
The Delta Tilting Arbor Saw is a contractors saw with cast iron wings, enclosed
base, a 2HP motor and mag starter switch. ($1100 with unifence).
The Grizzley 1023 is a copy of the Delta Unisaw, with a poor rip fence. ($850)
This saw is powerful, solid and highly regarded by those who own them. It
definitely would benefit from an aftermarket rip fence (Vega: $170, Biesemeyer
Home Shop Fence: $250). Buying any Taiwan tool can be an adventure in tool
rebuilding, so the dollar savings can have a price in time and aggravation.
You will never be sorry, however if you go all the way right now to a Delta
Unisaw with Unifence or a Powermatic 66. These will set you back another
$600, but easily outlast and outperform all of the above saws.