does all wood darken?
dustyone
Question:
Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.
Curt Blood
Hartford, CT
Morris Dovey
> Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
> such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
> think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
> cherry is an anomaly.
All wood eventually oxidizes to one degree or another - and the woods
I'm familiar with will oxidize until they eventually turn black.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
RicodJour
> dustyone wrote:
> > Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
> > such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
> > think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
> > cherry is an anomaly.
>
> All wood eventually oxidizes to one degree or another - and the woods
> I'm familiar with will oxidize until they eventually turn black.
What time frame are you talking about? I suppose if you wait long
enough the wood would turn into oil, so yes, it would turn black. But
there's plenty of wood lying around this place that isn't continuing
to darken. I have some unfinished pine window trim that has been
sitting in the sun for years and it isn't getting noticeably darker.
If anything it's lightening up some after the initial darkening.
R
dpb
> dustyone wrote:
>
>> Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
>> such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
>> think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
>> cherry is an anomaly.
>
> All wood eventually oxidizes to one degree or another - and the woods
> I'm familiar with will oxidize until they eventually turn black.
That's called "charcoal", Morris... :)
I don't see that at all, though, at least w/o moisture. Cedar, most
pines, cypress, etc., will eventually get a gray outer layer and from
then on are essentially stable as long as don't stay wet.
I'm not thinking on same lines as you; obviously you're not thinking
along same lines as I...
--
dadiOH
My experience is that light woods darken and dark woods (walnut, mahogany,
etc.) lighten. Teak too lightens. I used to have a sailboat with an
African mahogany trunk cabin and a teak transom. Both became noticeably
lighter within a few months after sanding and varnishing.
Much also depends on what finish if any. I made my wife's desk of heartwood
hickory with sapwood hickory trim. The heartwood was medium, sapwood quite
light. The desk was finished with linseed oil, all parts became a medium
brown within a few months due to the oxidation of the oil.
Also, freshly cut wood color is different from that exposed to air for a
while; e.g, freshly cut walnut generally has a purplish cast, teak a
greenish one.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
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Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Morris Dovey
> On Jun 21, 12:21 pm, Morris Dovey <mrdo...@iedu.com> wrote:
>> dustyone wrote:
>>> Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
>>> such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
>>> think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
>>> cherry is an anomaly.
>> All wood eventually oxidizes to one degree or another - and the woods
>> I'm familiar with will oxidize until they eventually turn black.
>
> What time frame are you talking about?
Well, I have unfinished softwood that has browned significantly over the
last ten years or so.
I've paid attention to the effect of time on softwood and hardwood
furniture built in North America in the 1600's - 1800's shown on
"Antiques Roadshow".
And I've seen first hand how wood from 1000 years ago has turned black
as charcoal (without an intermediate oil stage, AFAIK).
RicodJour
Well that clears that up. When you said eventually you were talking
about a time frame measured in the hundreds of years. I'm not sure
that's what the OP was asking about.
R
dpb
And a lot of that over that time period is accumulated grime and dirt
not simply the result of surface oxidation...
--
SonomaProducts.com
if it is indoors and covered with a varnish of some sort but will Grey
and black if outdorrs and exposed to mositiure. Red oak will usually
lighten, agin unless moisture is present than it will black, etc. etc.
dustyone
Thank you all for your responses. The wood in question is curly maple
finished with rock hard table top varnish. Sounds like the answer is
"it depends".
CB
dadiOH
It will darken.
dpb
> dustyone wrote:
>> On Jun 21, 3:59 pm, "SonomaProducts.com" <bwx...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Every species has it's own characteristics. Pine will yellow and
>>> brown if it is indoors and covered with a varnish of some sort but
>>> will Grey and black if outdorrs and exposed to mositiure. Red oak
>>> will usually lighten, agin unless moisture is present than it will
>>> black, etc. etc.
>>>
>>> On Jun 21, 8:48 am, dustyone <curtbl...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>> Question:
>>>> Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
>>>> such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
>>>> think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
>>>> cherry is an anomaly.
>>>> Curt Blood
>>>> Hartford, CT
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you all for your responses. The wood in question is curly maple
>> finished with rock hard table top varnish. Sounds like the answer is
>> "it depends".
>
> It will darken.
And the varnish will yellow...
--
Larry Blanchard
> dustyone wrote:
>> Thank you all for your responses. The wood in question is curly maple
>> finished with rock hard table top varnish. Sounds like the answer is
>> "it depends".
>
> It will darken.
Most of the reference books I've read agree. The only question is the
time frame.
I particularly remember a book on turning that emphasized form because no
matter how pretty the wood, it'll all be black eventually. And yes,
eventually was in the 100s of years.
Of course, one could always use paint and bury the stuff in a desert
pyramid :-).
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
Leon
"dadiOH" <dad...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:DMt%l.54308$7O1....@newsfe06.ams2...
>
> My experience is that light woods darken and dark woods (walnut, mahogany,
> etc.) lighten. Teak too lightens.
Padauk, Cocobolo, and Cherry darken.
Leon
"dustyone" <curt...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1f6fe47b-54e1-4ea0...@f30g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
NO! some get lighter but most get darker. IIRC Walnut will lighten with
exposure to light as opposet to Maple, Cherry, Padauh, Cocobolo which get
darker.
Leon
Thank you all for your responses. The wood in question is curly maple
finished with rock hard table top varnish. Sounds like the answer is
"it depends".
We have a Maple wood floor in our master bathroom . A mat sets on top of it
in one spot near a window. The wood has darkened from direct sunlight.
Under the mat it is a lighter shade.
Phisherman
Pine, oak, maple, redwood, walnut darken with age. I am surprised how
much my pine furniture has darkened with age. Not sure if ALL wood
darkens with sun exposure, but I'd like to know which one(s) do not.
There have been many times I avoided cherry due to its darkening
characteristics. What is aggravating is putting a vase, cloth, lamp
on a table for some months, then you can see the lighter shadow on the
wood.
Doug Miller
>Pine, oak, maple, redwood, walnut darken with age.
English walnut, maybe. Black walnut lightens.
Rusty
FrozenNorth
> "dustyone" <curt...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1f6fe47b-54e1-4ea0...@f30g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
>> Hello all,
>>
>>
>> Question:
>>
>> Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
>> such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
>> think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
>> cherry is an anomaly.
>>
>> Curt Blood
>> Hartford, CT
>
> Generally light woods darken dark woods lighten
In other words, everything becomes dark beige.
;-)
--
Froz...
Martin H. Eastburn
and my beloved put it on a shelf (not for birds) that caught an hour
or so a day. It bleached and dried out and needed oiling to help it.
Might have been Cocobolo - but I can't recall - been 10-12 years ago.
[ wood used for bearings ? ] Hum
Martin
Lew Hodgett
> [ wood used for bearings ? ] Hum
The standard for wooden journal bearings in marine applications has
been Lignum Vitae.
Lew
dustyone
> On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 08:48:52 -0700 (PDT), dustyone
>
Many thanks!
Curt Blood
Hartford, CT
Tanus
Walnut will lighten? Does that work the same way as cherry darkens? Make
sure it gets sun exposure and leave it there to lighten up.
I have a walnut bowl that seems a bit dark and if all I have to do is
put it by a southern exposed window, I'd like to see how light it gets.
Tanus
Andrew Barss
:>Pine, oak, maple, redwood, walnut darken with age.
: English walnut, maybe. Black walnut lightens.
So does French walnut. It can get close to a cream color
(after a hundred years anyway).
-- Andy Barss
Robert Bonomi
dadiOH <dad...@invalid.com> wrote:
>dustyone wrote:
>> On Jun 21, 3:59 pm, "SonomaProducts.com" <bwx...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Every species has it's own characteristics. Pine will yellow and
>>> brown if it is indoors and covered with a varnish of some sort but
>>> will Grey and black if outdorrs and exposed to mositiure. Red oak
>>> will usually lighten, agin unless moisture is present than it will
>>> black, etc. etc.
>>>
>>> On Jun 21, 8:48 am, dustyone <curtbl...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>>> Question:
>>>
>>>> Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
>>>> such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
>>>> think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
>>>> cherry is an anomaly.
>>>
>>>> Curt Blood
>>>> Hartford, CT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you all for your responses. The wood in question is curly maple
>> finished with rock hard table top varnish. Sounds like the answer is
>> "it depends".
Nah. The "Law of perverse statistics" applies. Whichever way you _don't_
want it to go is what it will actually do. <grin>
dadiOH
Not very...it gets redder (than fresh cut) with golden overtones.
Leon
"Tanus" <Tan...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:h1tdh4$lnt$1...@aioe.org...
>
> Walnut will lighten? Does that work the same way as cherry darkens? Make
> sure it gets sun exposure and leave it there to lighten up.
Yes
>
> I have a walnut bowl that seems a bit dark and if all I have to do is put
> it by a southern exposed window, I'd like to see how light it gets.
I don't think it will lighten quite as quickly as the cherry darkens in
light exposure.
Denis G.
> "Tanus" <Tanu...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:h1tdh4$lnt$1...@aioe.org...
Here is a link to a Japanese book (“Wood and Cellulosic Chemistry” by
David N.-S. Hon, Nobuo Shiraishi)
http://tinyurl.com/knpd6f
According to the book, there are many causes of discoloration:
chemical, biological and physical. Results for light-induced
discoloration is shown in Table 7 for 100 species of wood (but Google
shows only part of the table) Positive numbers show woods that
darken and negative numbers show woods that lighten.
According to the Table 7, American walnut should lighten, but window
glass will block UV from sunlight, so it may take much longer than if
left in full sunlight outdoors.
J. Clarke
> On Jun 24, 10:40 pm, "Leon" <lcb11...@swbell.dotnet> wrote:
>> "Tanus" <Tanu...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:h1tdh4$lnt$1...@aioe.org...
>>
>>> Walnut will lighten? Does that work the same way as cherry darkens?
>>> Make sure it gets sun exposure and leave it there to lighten up.
>>
>> Yes
>>
>>
>>
>>> I have a walnut bowl that seems a bit dark and if all I have to do
>>> is put it by a southern exposed window, I'd like to see how light
>>> it gets.
>>
>> I don't think it will lighten quite as quickly as the cherry darkens
>> in light exposure.
>
> David N.-S. Hon, Nobuo Shiraishi)
> http://tinyurl.com/knpd6f
>
> According to the book, there are many causes of discoloration:
> chemical, biological and physical. Results for light-induced
> discoloration is shown in Table 7 for 100 species of wood (but Google
> shows only part of the table) Positive numbers show woods that
> darken and negative numbers show woods that lighten.
>
> According to the Table 7, American walnut should lighten, but window
> glass will block UV from sunlight, so it may take much longer than if
> left in full sunlight outdoors.
Whoa, STOP. The UV content of sunlight on the Earth's surface is mostly UVA
(the UVB and higher has mostly been absorbed by the atmosphere) and window
glass unless it has a UV blocking coating on it is about 90 percent
transparent to UVA.
Leon
"Denis G." <guil...@gis.net> wrote in message
news:4d15c23d-2305-4294...@j12g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> Yes
>
>
>
> > I have a walnut bowl that seems a bit dark and if all I have to do is
> > put
> > it by a southern exposed window, I'd like to see how light it gets.
>
> I don't think it will lighten quite as quickly as the cherry darkens in
> light exposure.
Here is a link to a Japanese book (�Wood and Cellulosic Chemistry� by
David N.-S. Hon, Nobuo Shiraishi)
http://tinyurl.com/knpd6f
According to the book, there are many causes of discoloration:
chemical, biological and physical. Results for light-induced
discoloration is shown in Table 7 for 100 species of wood (but Google
shows only part of the table) Positive numbers show woods that
darken and negative numbers show woods that lighten.
According to the Table 7, American walnut should lighten, but window
glass will block UV from sunlight, so it may take much longer than if
left in full sunlight outdoors.
That sounds very reasonable. Because I have never built any Walnut
furniture that was to be left out side in direct sunlight I have not
witnessed it fade "quickly". Cherry on OTOH will darken quickly. You
better be cautious about setting any thing on a new piece of Cherry
furniture that will block light as in as little as several weeks the wood
will darken around the protected/covered spot.
Swingman
> That sounds very reasonable. Because I have never built any Walnut
> furniture that was to be left out side in direct sunlight I have not
> witnessed it fade "quickly". Cherry on OTOH will darken quickly. You
> better be cautious about setting any thing on a new piece of Cherry
> furniture that will block light as in as little as several weeks the wood
> will darken around the protected/covered spot.
Yep ... and, as you know, every time you walk in my house you can see
that the nice initial effect of inlaying walnut with cherry may not
stand the test of time.
The walnut lightens and the cherry darkens, making the inlay almost
disappear.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Lee Michaels
"Swingman" wrote
>
> Yep ... and, as you know, every time you walk in my house you can see that
> the nice initial effect of inlaying walnut with cherry may not stand the
> test of time.
>
> The walnut lightens and the cherry darkens, making the inlay almost
> disappear.
>
the trick! Hindsight is 20/20. :-)
Swingman
> Hindsight is 20/20. :-)
You're right .. might as well be blind for the impact the effect has. :)
Leon
"Swingman" <k...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:_6ydnQjo3ImWGN7X...@giganews.com...
Stick it out side! IT IS NOT GOING TO RAIN. The Cherry will turn darker
and the Walnut will lighten, then you will end up with the same result,
except just the opposite. ;~(
David Nebenzahl
> Stick it out side! IT IS NOT GOING TO RAIN. The Cherry will turn darker
> and the Walnut will lighten, then you will end up with the same result,
> except just the opposite. ;~(
Just a question: why do you always capitalize Cherry and Walnut? They're
not proper nouns, you know, and this ain't German.
Just curious.
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism
Swingman
> On 6/25/2009 7:56 AM Leon spake thus:
>
>> Stick it out side! IT IS NOT GOING TO RAIN. The Cherry will turn
>> darker and the Walnut will lighten, then you will end up with the same
>> result, except just the opposite. ;~(
>
> Just a question: why do you always capitalize Cherry and Walnut? They're
> not proper nouns, you know, and this ain't German.
>
> Just curious.
Around here proper respect is paid to JOAT'S wooddorking gods, which
lurk in the two most elegant of hardwoods, way before any thought is
given to frivolous pursuits like grammar ... besides, it insures
wooddorkers cut only once after measuring only once.
David Nebenzahl
Hmm; dunno what JOAT is, but I'll find out soon enough.
And that's sure better than my usual "Damn--I cut it twice and it's
*still* too short!"
Leon
"David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4a4656d9$0$31880$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> On 6/25/2009 7:56 AM Leon spake thus:
>
>> Stick it out side! IT IS NOT GOING TO RAIN. The Cherry will turn darker
>> and the Walnut will lighten, then you will end up with the same result,
>> except just the opposite. ;~(
>
> Just a question: why do you always capitalize Cherry and Walnut? They're
> not proper nouns, you know, and this ain't German.
>
> Just curious.
You don't name your boards??
I want to emphasize the particular wood.
Swingman
> You don't name your boards??
ROTFL! ...
> I want to emphasize the particular wood.
LOL ... that'll do it, for sure!
David G. Nagel
Like me.
Dave N
ric...@gmail.com
> Hello all,
>
>
> Question:
>
> Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
> such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
> think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
> cherry is an anomaly.
>
> Curt Blood
> Hartford, CT
Doug Miller
news:a722c604-61af-4253...@googlegroups.com:
darker when it's exposed to sunlight, not lighter. If the leaf that was stored is darker than the
rest of the piece which was exposed to light, then it's probably walnut, certainly isn't cherry.
Your first step is to confirm what wood it is. Post a picture on some photo-sharing site so we
can all see it.
Leon
Jack
recall ever seeing wood get lighter with exposure to light, usually
light wood turns gray, and dark wood get darker. I don't have experience
with all 60,000 species of wood, so one can't be sure. My best guess is
the leaf was exposed to sun, and the table wasn't. Seems strange as
normally it would be the other way around. Possibly the leaf is
different wood from the rest.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com
Leon
Jack
and it's if anything darker than when I made it. How long should I wait
for it to get lighter? Same with my cutting boards also 40+ years old,
the walnut is definitely not lighter than when made.
It's Pennsylvania walnut though, not Texas walnut. Also not sitting
outside in direct sunlight and weather so who knows what that would do?
Generally direct sunlight might fade colored wood into grayish, but
don't recall any wood getting lighter from exposure.
Leon
probably have no issue.
BUT. If you believe anything from the internet or FWW,
http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/wood-and-materials/walnut-fade-and-why-bother
> It's Pennsylvania walnut though, not Texas walnut. Also not sitting
> outside in direct sunlight and weather so who knows what that would do?
> Generally direct sunlight might fade colored wood into grayish, but
> don't recall any wood getting lighter from exposure.
>
way to turning grey, it lightens.
Swingman and our wives were in Arkansas about 10 years ago and were
looking for wood. We ran across a guy with a band saw sawmill that was
selling fence posts. $4 each IIRC and they were all grey like a typical
fence post. They had been stored and dried outside.
These posts were walnut and until he planed the faded side we would
never have believed that. We left Arkansas with a pick up load of grey
walnut fence posts. $74.
k...@notreal.com
wrote:
Jack
my pencil holder and it is definitely darker than the exposed part.
Mea culpa.
Leon
One memory deception that has always confounded me is when I see some
thing from my childhood, many years later, is how much smaller it looks now.
When I was in elementary school I thought the campus was HUGE.
When I revisited about 40 years later it was tiny. LOL
Jack
12... Wow, they were nothing like I remembered, despite nothing at all
had actually changed.
The walnut pencil holder I've been looking at every day for 40 years.
The slow change was not noticeable to me. It wasn't until I looked at
the bottom that the gradual change became sudden. What bothers me is I
never thought to look at the bottom until I read the fine woodworking
article you referenced and he tipped me off.
--
Jack
If you can't make a mistake, you can't make anything.
http://jbstein.com