PAINT PATTERN QUESTION
Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT
want to have to reinvent the wheel, if I don't have to. And, google
doesn't have the answers I need, unless I was just asking the wrong
questions.
Background:
I am working on a project that will wind up with a pretty complex
paint scheme. This means I will have to have a paint pattern (ala
paint-by numbers, except no numbers) on the project (made out of wood).
Problem:
I tried tracing the lines on a piece of plastic, then punching
holes along the lines. Then I dusted the holes with chalkline chalk.
Figured all I needed to do then, was take a marker and join the lines.
Simple, right? Ever look at a piece of wood, with a very complex series
of blue dots, and no idea in the world how to connect them? Even with
my master right there, the complex parts are too complex. Would almst
be easier to freehand it, as I originally did. But that would take too
long, and the multiples would not have consistent patterns.
Yes, I can use carbon paper, and trace. But, again, I plan on
doing multiples, so accuate enough, but too time-consuming.
I have a book of stencil projects, with a couple dozen pieces of
blank stencils included. Been thinking of laying about 3 of these side
by side, tracing the pattern, then cutting along the lines, with a
razor, but leaving spacs in to hold it all together. An option, would
be use two layers, and then the lines wouldn't have gaps when finally
marked out. Clumsy, but workable.
I have also thought of getting some copper door screen, then using
oil paint, and painting the insides of the patterns, leaving the line
portions clear. Then use a squeegee with latex paint, or water-soluble
ink, laying out the lines that way, and washing the latex or ink out
after. Time consuming to make, and not sure it would work that well,
these are not real wide paint lines.
Also considered getting some silk-screen material, and making a
silk-screen of the pattern. This wouldn't be very time consuming, just
a bit of added, and unplanned for, expense. However, to use it in a
frame would proably be very clumsy, and maye unworkable. So, was
thinking about just taping the edges all around, to stiffen it, and
protect it a bit, then just laying it out on the project, and
squeegeeing the paint, or ink, and washing the silk-screen after. So,
far this seems like my best option (except for the fact that I already
"have" the stencils, and by using them, won't have to lay out any extra
cash. In that light, stencils would be the option of choice).
So, question:
Anyone out there have a similar problem, and, if so, how did you solve
it? I'm especially curious about silk-scrrening, if anyone has used
that.
Please, no BS answers, because then that will put you a quart low.
Basically, that means if you haven't actually done this, I probably
won't pay any attention to your answer.
Well, I have read this over several times, and put in everything
I could think of. So, hopefully, won't have overlooked anything too
stoopid (sic).
JOAT
"A problem adequately stated is a problem well on its way to being
solved."
R. Buckminster Fuller
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 12 Apr 2003. Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/JOATorJackOfAll/page4.html
ri...@rickfrazier.com
Is this an essentially flat project? What you described using copper
screen is basically the way silkscreening is done. With registered frames,
very complex patterns can be built up. In essence, a silkscreen is a
tensioned stencil, and without the tension, silk is pretty floppy,
especially when you try to force ink or paint through one. It is imperative
the screen remain flat and able to make complete contact with the project as
you squeegee ink or paint onto it. If you use something as coarse as copper
screen, you are probably asking for trouble, as you will get paint or ink
everywhere, even places you don't want. Using regular silk screen fabric is
definitely better, because it has a much (much) smaller mesh, and the mesh
of silk screen fabric doesn't tear up the squeegee you would need to use.
As long as you don't let the ink dry on the screen, you can make multiple
impressions without cleaning the screen, so clean up isn't too horrible.
If you have problems with the silkscreen method because frames are
difficult, how about using a pad printing technique? Pad printing is
somewhat similar to rubber stamping, and uses much of the same sort of
actions. You need to be able to ink the positive (the pad or stamp) and
position it accurately on the project, moving it into contact with the
project without lateral or rotational movement that would smear the lines or
sections printed. In commercial pad printing, a mechanical arm or press is
used for registering the pad on the project, so it is consistent. Pad
printing can be used to print flat or cylindrical objects without any
special techniques, and even objects with multiple crowns (curves) like a
ball of a reasonable diameter can be accommodated with pad printing.
I've used variations of both pad printing and silk screening on a number of
different projects over the years on a fairly wide variety of projects, but
all were either pretty flat or cylindrical in nature. At one company I
worked for a long time ago, we had a logo pad printed on a double crowned
surface, and it worked pretty well, but the setup costs were more than I
would even begin to consider for a small production run or one-off
situation. In the home shop, it's not too difficult to do the silk
screening process, though it can cost a few dollars to get set up,
particularly if you want to use photosensitive resists, which allow some
really complex paint schemes, but does require making a different screen for
each color.
If you already have stencils, why not just tape 'em in place and paint
away? If the project can stand a stippled paint effect, you could even use
a sponge to apply the paint. Beware of trying to use spray equipment to
apply paint with a stencil, unless you plan to coat the back of the stencil
with some sort of contact adhesive, as the excess air of most spray
processes tends to lift the stencil, resulting in muddy lines and over-spray
(under-spray? I think you get the picture, it's when the paint extends
under the edges of the stencil and into areas not intended).
--Rick AH7H
BobGramza
"Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT" <Jakofal...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:26995-3EB...@storefull-2138.public.lawson.webtv.net...
science class, where sheet by sheet you put the human body together. Each
stencil page can have a cut out for the particular color to paint. After
the stencils are aligned and securely fastened it "should" be fairly
accurate.
Wood Butcher
Art
"Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT" <Jakofal...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:26995-3EB...@storefull-2138.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> OK, I can eventually figure out a workable solution, but I don't
> want to have to reinvent the wheel, if I don't have to. And, google
> doesn't have the answers I need, unless I was just asking the wrong
> questions.
<snip>
Charlie Spitzer
"Wood Butcher" <sp...@magnet.com> wrote in message
news:sabua.506533$OV.486550@rwcrnsc54...
make an overhead projector slide on your laserprinter (or the one at the
library) of your pattern. go to your local school (or the library may have
one) and slap the slide on it. project at wall. put your wood on the wall
and trace the outline.
that's how i enlarge stained glass patterns.
regards,
charlie
cave creek, az
FOW
them. I've made lot's of stencils with Corel.
"Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT" <Jakofal...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:26995-3EB...@storefull-2138.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT
Have you considered using an opaque projector?
No.
I have a projector, and it won't do what I want.
Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT
Is this an essentially flat project? <SNIP of most of the rest>
<><><> A legitimate question. Flat, about 28" X 8-10". And there will
be several designs eventually, not just the one, with multiples of each.
how about using a pad printing technique?
<><><> OK, how about it? If I can do it, explain how. If I can't, I'm
not interested.
If you already have stencils, why not just tape 'em in place and paint
away? <snip>
<><><> Now, if I had stencils, I wouldn't be asking.
If this will make it clearer, I want to make a design like a kid's
coloring book - lines, but no color. I will fill in the color with
paint - painting by hand. Then, I will go over the lines with a fine
brush and black paint - again, by hand. This is the way I want it, this
is the way it will be done. I just want a fast, and repeatable way of
doing the lines.
I asked about silk-screening, because I have never done it. I have
read about it, so know the theory, and what is needed, just no hands-on.
Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT
Can you overlay the stencils <snip>
See my previous response.
You guys really need to learn how to snip.
Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT
How about using a program like Corel Draw to print the patterns out and
draw them. I've made lot's of stencils with Corel.
One, I don't have a computer.
Two, even if I did, I would have to buy the software, right?
Three, then I would still have to cut the stencil out, right?
I already have the stencil material, and clear plastic. So, with
one of those, and a magic marker, I can trace a stencil out, using my
master, in probably less time than it would take you to set up. And, I
would still have to cut it out.
G or C Elliott
system in the corners to guarantee no shifting.
I would use a pounce wheel (about l/2 to 1" diameter) to cut small
holes in the stencil for each particular color. Then I would use a very
dry stencil brush with each color and stencil that color/design to the
overall pattern of the project. The registration pins will assure you of
accuracy in multiples.
When the pattern is complete on each panel you will have a complete
design defined by various colors which you paint in by hand. Naturally,
I would pretest each step above.
Pounce wheels are available at art supply stores. They can roll/punch
through most paper, and stencil material. And while you are there have a
look at a product called Frisket, used by air brush artists to mask off
areas. It may be useful on this or an upcoming job.
I have expeience with silk screening and don't see how you can do it
economically.
Glenn
Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT
(G or C Elliott) says:
My suggestion <SNIP>
ROTFLMAO You need to read my previous responses.
Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT
After a bit of thought about it, I think that will work out well. If,
for some strange reason, it doesn't, I will refert to using the stencil
material I have, and make custom stencils. That would be a bit
clumsier, and more time consuming using, but workable. However, I am
confident the silk-screening will do the job.
Old Nick
(Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT) wrote something
......and in reply I say!:
>Wed, May 7, 2003, 2:22pm (EDT+4) b...@midwest.net (BobGramza) asks:
>Can you overlay the stencils <snip>
>
> See my previous response.
>
> You guys really need to learn how to snip.
PMFJI.
JOAT. I think you are a useful if somewhat feared poster around here.
I think you really need to take well-meant advice without snapping at
it. So far you have been "brief" (as in "eat my shorts!") with just
about every suggestion. If you know the exact answer you want, then
why ask the question?
>"A problem adequately stated is a problem well on its way to being
>solved."
>R. Buckminster Fuller
Perhaps you need to state better.
Fundamental rule.The means ALWAYS becomes the end.
Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music
Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email
!!
<")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/
Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT
says:
<snip> I think you really need to take well-meant advice without
snapping at it. So far you have been "brief" (as in "eat my shorts!")
with just about every suggestion. If you know the exact answer you want,
LMAO. A few lines from my original
post:
OK, I can eventually figure out a workable solution, but I don't want to
have to reinvent the wheel, if I don't have to. <snip>
Basically, that means if you haven't actually done this, I probably
won't pay any attention to your answer. <snip>
I figured that was fair warning. If I "had" known the answer I
wanted, believe me, I wouldn't have asked.
I had already came up with workable solutions, BUT, didn't know if
they were the best ones. I want to lay out lines on wood, so I can
paint inside the lines. Has to be repeatable, and won't take long to
do. My solutions were workable, accurate enough, but time-consuming. I
did try to make that clear, but apparently failed.
Now you see why I don't ask for any type of help here very often.
And, i don't recall ever, in this lifetime, or any other, telling
someone to "eat my shorts". Have told a few to leap up and kiss my rosy
red ass, but don't recall telling anyone here that. Even told a few to
embark on an aeronautical intercourse at a revolving pastry. Been
awhile for that one, and never here.
JOAT
"A problem adequately stated is a problem well on its way to being
solved."
R. Buckminster Fuller
FOW
software, they have 30 day trial software to use for
( Do I need to say this )? 30 DAYS ! For free ! Sorry your computer
illiterate.
I read this news group to learn something and teach others with my
experience. That seems to be why news groups exist. I want to learn AND be
taught something. I think I have an open mind, do you?
I don't want to start a war but some people can do a simple 1 ( one ) minute
www.goggle search and find most of their questions answered . Are we all
getting lazy ?
PS. Corel Draw is not that expensive, Old versions can be had for free or
traded, bartered or ask and I'll tell ya where to snatch a copy.
I don't condone piracy but is out here if ya look.
JOAT: I don't mean to be an ASS*ole, but I think the answer is right in
front of you if you really want it. Experiment , take a chance, wreak some
scrape wood. This is how I learned.
As a friend of mine would say: NOTHING beats a failure but a try.
PSS, No hard feelings , OK?
I read your posts and learn something every time I read them.
The day I know it all , is the day, I dread.
I still learn something everyday of my life. If I stop learning I don't
exist as a open minded human being.
I was just trying to help with your stencil problem.
Repeatability is what computers real excel at.
Try cutting friskets or stencils Exactly the same 100 times over.
Sleep on you question for a few days and the AAH- Hahh. Will hit you right
up side the head. Takes a few days sometimes.
As the song sez:
If you want it , here it is, Come and get it , but you better hurry cause
it may not last.
"Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT" <Jakofal...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6554-3EB...@storefull-2131.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT
So your using, what? WEB TV to post email ?
I DO use WebTV. How did you guess?
No you don't HAVE to buy software, they have 30 day trial software to
use for ( Do I need to say this )? 30 DAYS ! For free !
<><><> Yep, you're absolutely correct there, I don't need to buy
software. Reason being, WebTV can't use it. So would matter if they
paid me to try it.
Sorry you're WebTV illiterate. LOL
Sorry your computer illiterate.
<><><> That's funny. Whatever would give you that idea? Because I use
WebTV? LOL Part of my life was being a lead computer operator, for 9
years, usually on shift alone, and tending to from 9 to 11 mainframes.
Admitted, not Crays, but kept me busy. Even wound up doing a bit of
hardware work, and minor program changes, at times. Thing is, I don't
NEED a computer, so don't have one. If I ever have an actual need for
one, I will get one. But, I am not holding my breath. LOL
I read this news group to learn something and teach others with my
experience. That seems to be why news groups exist.
<snip> I was that naive at first too. Now I look at them mainly as
entertainment. But, I do learn a bit, and do pass on a lot of the plans
I find.
I think I have an open mind, do you?
<><><> Hell, how should I know?
I don't want to start a war but some people can do a simple 1 ( one )
minute www.goggle search and find most of their questions answered . Are
we all getting lazy ?
<><><> ROTFLMAO I don't use google. I use http://gogle.com. Advising
me to use google. LMAO I probably make more searches (most of them
with google) in a day, than most people would make in a month. So, I
find that very amusing that you are apparently telling me I should use
google.
PS. Corel Draw is not that expensive, <snip>
<><><> As stated above, can't use it. Doesn't really matter any way, I
prefer a paper and pencil. Or crayons, on the days they don't allow me
sharp objects. They will usually allow magic markers, tho. LOL
I don't mean to be an ASS*ole, but I think the answer is right in front
of you if you really want it. Experiment <snip>
<><><> Sigh. And I thought I had made myself clear. I have no idea in
the world where you would get the idea I don't experiment.
I read your posts and learn something every time I read them. <snip>
<><><> LMAO You must have skipped a lot of posts then. Have you seen
the Pinecone Turkey?
I was just trying to help with your stencil problem. Repeatability is
what computers real excel at. Try cutting friskets or stencils Exactly
the same 100 times over.
<><><> I don't "have" a stencil problem. I'm not gonna sell 'em. I
will have a different stencil(s) for each project, so in that sense I
will needmultiples, and will use each stencil multiple times. I can cut
a stencil easily enough. I had tried to make that clear from the start.
Sleep on you question for a few days and the AAH- Hahh. Will hit you
right up side the head. Takes a few days sometimes. <snip>
<><><> As I said in an earlier post, I have been offered some
silk-screening materials. I will try 'em, and see how they work. I
figure they will do, but if not, I will make my own stencils.
AAH-Hahh.
As I said, this developed into a quite entertaining thread.