8mm router bits vs 1/4"
Michael Davison
Lee Valley sells them, although I don't know how their bits compare to
the Jesada ones. We wacky Canadians have all sorts of metric
thinga-ma-bobs.
James W. McMann wrote:
>
> After reading the Leigh jig brochure I set out trying to locate sources and
> information on 8mm router bits.
>
> Seems that their not so popular in the US. I could not find a US supplier
> that has them.
>
> Should I concern myself about them? Maybe I should just wait until JESADA
> starts making them!
>
> Regards,
>
> Jim McMann
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Jim McMann email: jmc...@ocean-software.com
> Ocean Software, Inc, v:408-445-1560 f:408-266-9430
> San Jose, CA. www.ocean-software.com
Kendell Carver
Hey Carlo, are you listening?
I recently purchased your Leigh jig set. ( Thanks again for your
freebie! ) I like it, but would have preferred 8mm shanks instead of
the 1/4". No problem with the 1/4", but the additional steal on the
shank gives me warm fuzzies.
Kendell...
--
~~~~ As a big inconvenience, replace 'FirstName' with ~~~~
~~~~ my real first name to reply ~~~~
SteveL1994
<< No problem with the 1/4", but the additional steal on the
shank gives me warm fuzzies. >>
Do you think running 8mm bits with the required collet insert is better than
running 1/4" bits without?
Tightening a collet around another collet which holds the bit doesn't seem
right to me. I've never used a collet insert/reducer and maybe overly
concerned.
Steve
JesadaTool
>Subject: Re: 8mm router bits vs 1/4"
>From: Kendell Carver <FirstName...@ccm.al.intel.com>
>Date: Wed, Oct 8, 1997 19:27 EDT
>Message-id: <343C16...@ccm.al.intel.com>
>
>Hey Carlo, are you listening?
> I recently purchased your Leigh jig set. ( Thanks again for your
>freebie! ) I like it, but would have preferred 8mm shanks instead of
>the 1/4". No problem with the 1/4", but the additional steal on the
>shank gives me warm fuzzies.
>
> Kendell...
>
>
>Michael Davison wrote:
>>
>> Lee Valley sells them, although I don't know how their bits compare to
>> the Jesada ones. We wacky Canadians have all sorts of metric
>> thinga-ma-bobs.
>>
>> James W. McMann wrote:
>> >
>> > After reading the Leigh jig brochure I set out trying to locate sources
>and
>> > information on 8mm router bits.
>> >
>> > Seems that their not so popular in the US. I could not find a US supplier
>> > that has them.
>> >
>> > Should I concern myself about them? Maybe I should just wait until JESADA
>> > starts making them!
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Jim McMann
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Jim McMann email: jmc...@ocean-software.com
>> > Ocean Software, Inc, v:408-445-1560 f:408-266-9430
>> > San Jose, CA. www.ocean-software.com
>
>--
> ~~~~ As a big inconvenience, replace 'FirstName' with ~~~~
> ~~~~ my real first name to reply ~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Kendell and All,
I agree that a larger shank is better than a smaller. Keep in mind that 1/2"
shank is 4 times bigger than 1/4".
Having said that, some exceptions apply.
Let's take for example the bits for the Leigh Jig Set.
In our 13 piece set, you will find the following:
4 bits with 1/2" shank
1 bit in Solid Carbide 1/4" shank
8 bits in 1/4" shank
All of the bits with 1/4" shank,( except our item 811-081 Leigh
N. 140 ) are dovetails with a minor diameter less than 1/4". Some
of them 1/8". By putting a larger shank on the bit, you still don't increase
the amount of steel where the stress is greatest.
In the history of our company, we have yet to see a broken shank
or a bent shank due in part to the type of steel we use.
The breakage that I have seen is always at the neck of the
dovetail ( The smallest diameter) and this is due in most part to
the design and geometry of the dovetail itself. Also remember that
when a dovetail is used, it is always trapped in the material and
that material most of the time is hard. If the operator is not careful
and perpendicular to the cut with the router, the small diameter bits will
snap. We suggest that on these small bits, you pre-plow
with a straight bit to avoid the above mentioned snapping problem.
In conclusion in my opinion, the only bit that would benefit from
a larger shank in the bits for the Leigh Jig, would be our item
811-081 (Leigh n. 140). This is true only if an original 8mm
collet is used with the router and not a reducing sleeve..
Anytime you use a sleeve or bushing is considered an error by
definition!! (Sleeve and Bushing increase any existing run out)
I suspect that the decison of Leigh Jig people to offer 8mm shank
was to be able to serve the European market, and to have an edge over the
competion. (Us??)
Best regards,
Carlo
Jack Zucker
Carlo wrote:
> Kendell and All,
> I agree that a larger shank is better than a smaller. Keep in mind that
1/2"
> shank is 4 times bigger than 1/4".
> By putting a larger shank on the bit, you still don't increase
> the amount of steel where the stress is greatest.
> In the history of our company, we have yet to see a broken shank
> or a bent shank due in part to the type of steel we use.
This is NOT the problem. The problem is that the 1/4" bits tend to slip
more
often than the 1/2" bits. I've never had a problem with breakage but I DO
often
have problems with bit slippage. This is particularly a problem with the
poor
collet design of my Hitachi M12V router and it's 1/4" collet adapter. (BTW,
I'd
love to find a better 3rd party 1/4" collet adapter if you know of one)
> [more editing]
> I suspect that the decison of Leigh Jig people to offer 8mm shank
> was to be able to serve the European market, and to have an edge over the
> competion. (Us??)
... And perhaps to avoid the slippage problem I mentioned earlier.
-Jaz
JesadaTool
>
>This is NOT the problem. The problem is that the 1/4" bits tend to slip
>more
>often than the 1/2" bits. I've never had a problem with breakage but I DO
>often
>have problems with bit slippage. This is particularly a problem with the
>poor
>collet design of my Hitachi M12V router and it's 1/4" collet adapter. (BTW,
>I'd
>love to find a better 3rd party 1/4" collet adapter if you know of one)
>> [more editing]
>> I suspect that the decison of Leigh Jig people to offer 8mm shank
>> was to be able to serve the European market, and to have an edge over the
>> competion. (Us??)
>
>... And perhaps to avoid the slippage problem I mentioned earlier.
>
>-Jaz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jack,
Before responding, a checked with my people.
I have been told that in our history, only one customer complained of
slippage.
You may be correct and I will research the subject in depth
and post our findings.
Regards,
Carlo
Steve Wallace
Jack Zucker wrote:
>
> Carlo wrote:
[snip]
> > In the history of our company, we have yet to see a broken shank
> > or a bent shank due in part to the type of steel we use.
>
> more
> often than the 1/2" bits. I've never had a problem with breakage but I DO
> often
> have problems with bit slippage. This is particularly a problem with the
[white space inserted for highly dramatic effect...dang, I'm good]
> poor
> collet design of my Hitachi M12V router and it's 1/4" collet adapter.
Umm...Lemme get this straight. You are using a collet adapter (bushing)
to reduce from 1/2 to 1/4, and get some slip, and then you are blaming
it on the bit, instead of the bushing?
I get no bit slip with either 1/2 or 1/4 shank bits, but my router
has different collets for them (PC69x).
(BTW,
> I'd
> love to find a better 3rd party 1/4" collet adapter if you know of one)
> > [more editing]
> > I suspect that the decison of Leigh Jig people to offer 8mm shank
> > was to be able to serve the European market, and to have an edge over the
> > competion. (Us??)
Never use superior technology when sneaky marketing will work, huh? ;^>
> ... And perhaps to avoid the slippage problem I mentioned earlier.
If a 1/2 to 1/4 reducing bushing slips, why do you think that a 1/2
to 8mm reducing bushing would not? (1/4 is 6.4mm so there is some more
surface area to grip, but enough to make a difference? Would you
not expect a 1/2 bit to slip with a poorly designed 20mm to 1/2
bushing?) Not a flame, just curious, as I don't need to use
bushings, so honestly, I don't understand the problem. But it
seems like the blame is misplaced here. No?
Later.
Steve.
--
"Buy the best and only cry once"
M. Carlson
The problem is that the 1/4" bits tend to slip
more
> often than the 1/2" bits. I've never had a problem with breakage but I DO
> often
> have problems with bit slippage. This is particularly a problem with the
> poor
> collet design of my Hitachi M12V router and it's 1/4" collet adapter.
(BTW,
> I'd
> love to find a better 3rd party 1/4" collet adapter if you know of one)
I also have the hitachi M12V router, and my solution to the joke of a
collet adapter was to buy 1/2 inch bits. I cant imagine WHY they think
something that allows the bits to just drop out of the machine is adaquate!
As far as the slippage thing, the surface are of the 1/2 inch shaft is
much greater so there is a WHOLE lot more friction holding the bit in the
collet.
--
M. Carlson
*Please remove the NOSPAM from my email address to reply directly to me!
Jeffrey Thunder
In article <01bcd4cb$5f3c7ae0$dfb99782@rsi_zucker>, "Jack Zucker" <j...@gwis.com> writes:
>Carlo wrote:
>> [stuff on why 1/4" bits are just as good as 1/2" bits for certain
>> dovetail applications- they won't break or bend any more often]
>This is NOT the problem. The problem is that the 1/4" bits tend to slip
>more
>often than the 1/2" bits.
This has practically nothing to do with the bits, and just about
everything to do with your router, specifically its collet.
A 1/4" bit in a decent 1/4" collet should slip no more (in fact, not at
all) than a 1/2" bit in a decent 1/2" collet.
I think the answer to the Leigh 8mm bit question is that certain markets
(European) have metric collets as opposed to the SAE sizes used in the US.
--
Jeff Thunder
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
Northern Illinois Univ.
jthu...@math.niu.edu
Giametti
My trusty Makita 3612 uses a bushing to take 1/4" bits. I have never had it
slip in 10 years of constant use.
I have had many a slip with Porter Cable's 1/2 router, mainly because the
collet is so dinky.
If I were buying another router right now, I would buy the Elu/DeWalt.
Jim Eddy
Jack Zucker
M. Carlson wrote:
> I also have the hitachi M12V router, and my solution to the joke of a
> collet adapter was to buy 1/2 inch bits. I cant imagine WHY they think
> something that allows the bits to just drop out of the machine is adaquate!
> As far as the slippage thing, the surface are of the 1/2 inch shaft is
> much greater so there is a WHOLE lot more friction holding the bit in the
> collet.
I wish Hitachi would do some kind of retrofit fix. I wonder how many
other unsatisfied Hitachi collet users are out there?
-Jaz
schm...@windsor.igs.net
Hi guys:
Just jumping in the fray here. I don't have access to all the threads.
A couple of points: Sorry if they've already been made.
Someone (davidson?) claimed 8mm bits are available from Lee
Valley. They are not. Lee Valley doesn't carry them for the same
reason that Carlo mentions in his correspondence. No increased
beef where the dovetail joins the shank--so nothing gained.
For them that wants to feel better about owning the 8mm over
the 1/4", Woodcraft Supply 1-800-225-1153; www.woodcraft.com
carry the 8mm bits.
I've never had a 1/4 bit slip in either of my two routers when using
the Leigh jig.
But having a quick look at the math:
Assuming 1 inch of chucked length--
1/4 bit= ~32 sq. mm of contact area
8mm bit = ~50 sq. mm of contact area
1/2 bit= ~127 sq. mm of contact area
Obviously the thicker the shank, the greater the friction.
Bill
Steve Wallace wrote:
> Jack Zucker wrote:
> >
> > Carlo wrote:
> [snip]
> > > In the history of our company, we have yet to see a broken shank
> > > or a bent shank due in part to the type of steel we use.
> >
> > This is NOT the problem. The problem is that the 1/4" bits tend to slip
> > more
> > often than the 1/2" bits. I've never had a problem with breakage but I DO
> > often
> > have problems with bit slippage. This is particularly a problem with the
>
> [white space inserted for highly dramatic effect...dang, I'm good]
>
> > poor
> > collet design of my Hitachi M12V router and it's 1/4" collet adapter.
>
> Umm...Lemme get this straight. You are using a collet adapter (bushing)
> to reduce from 1/2 to 1/4, and get some slip, and then you are blaming
> it on the bit, instead of the bushing?
>
> I get no bit slip with either 1/2 or 1/4 shank bits, but my router
> has different collets for them (PC69x).
>
> (BTW,
> > I'd
> > love to find a better 3rd party 1/4" collet adapter if you know of one)
Jack Zucker
schm...@windsor.igs.net wrote:
> I've never had a 1/4 bit slip in either of my two routers when using
> the Leigh jig.
>
You've obviously never used a Hitachi router! :-) Actually, I
additionally own a Porter Cable and Dewalt router and neither of them
has ever experienced slippage with 1/4" bits due to a good collet design
.
Unfortunately, if you have a router with poor collet design such as
Hitachi, you might consider 8mm bits (or upgrading to another router)
-Jaz