"hook & loop" system sucks!
Sigurd246
i have a bosch 5" random orbit sander, with the "hook and loop" system for
fastening the sanding disk to the tool. i do alot of sanding with this tool
and like its design. however i have had to replace the mounting pad twice in
the last couple of months because the hook and loops wore out. at $22 a pop,
this could get expensive. i think that the old fashioned adhesive backed disks
would work better. question is, does bosch make a replacement disk, without
the hook and loops. can't seem to find them in any tool supplier catalogues.
i've tried to just stick the adhesive pads to the worn out hooks, but it
wouldn't hold. why do so many manufacturers use this system, which doesn't
seem to last, or is it just me?
chita jing
Sigurd246 <sigu...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199803212212...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
> i have a bosch 5" random orbit sander, with the "hook and loop" system
for
> fastening the sanding disk to the tool. i do alot of sanding with this
tool
> and like its design. however i have had to replace the mounting pad
twice in
> the last couple of months because the hook and loops wore out.
Gosh, I've got a Bosch 5" too - and mine's wearing fine. How is this thing
wearing out? Is there anything wrong with the surface itself, where the
velcro attaches? Are you pressing the tool into the work maybe? What's
happening that makes you think it's worn out? Does it seem to be heating up
and melting, or is it getting worn patches or what? Does the service center
say why it's failing? It does sound unusual.
I've had a pretty good time with Bosch tools overall. I have had hammer
drills, power planer and that sander. The only problem I ever had was when
one of the triggers went wrong on one of the drills. The local service
center fixed it for free in ten minutes. If a tool kept failing, I'd take
it up with the company though. I wouldn't just keep buying new velcro for
it. Something's wrong.
Mike Johnson
My hook 'n loop OS works fine. I think that hook 'n loop is the best thing since
skimed milk. There must be a reason for your problems with the sander, I'd look
into that.
Sigurd246 wrote:
> i have a bosch 5" random orbit sander, with the "hook and loop" system for
> fastening the sanding disk to the tool. i do alot of sanding with this tool
> and like its design. however i have had to replace the mounting pad twice in
daoud
sigu...@aol.com (Sigurd246) wrote, inter alia,
>i have a bosch 5" random orbit sander, with the "hook and loop" system for
>fastening the sanding disk to the tool. i do alot of sanding with this tool
>and like its design. however i have had to replace the mounting pad twice in
>the last couple of months because the hook and loops wore out... is it just me?
It's just you. And what a stupid title for a post! *You* have a problem
with hook and loop, and suddenly the system--by most accounts a useful
implementation of one of the cleverest inventions in history--"sucks"? How
about "Please help with hook & loop sander problem?"
daoud
Clayton
In article <199803212212...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
sigu...@aol.com (Sigurd246) wrote:
>
> i have a bosch 5" random orbit sander, with the "hook and loop" system for
> fastening the sanding disk to the tool. i do alot of sanding with this tool
> and like its design. however i have had to replace the mounting pad twice in
> this could get expensive. i think that the old fashioned adhesive backed disks
> would work better. question is, does bosch make a replacement disk, without
> the hook and loops. can't seem to find them in any tool supplier catalogues.
> i've tried to just stick the adhesive pads to the worn out hooks, but it
> wouldn't hold. why do so many manufacturers use this system, which doesn't
> seem to last, or is it just me?
>
You may be bearing down to hard on the sander, causing the pad to get warm
and melt the "hook" tips slightly. I have the old version (3283 I think) and
I still have the original pad. Any extra agressiveness you gain by putting
pressure on the sander, you lose again due to the reduced speed. It's easy to
get impatient and want to push, but it really does work better and faster to
let the sander do all the work, applying just enough pressure to keep it
straight and steady.
Clayton
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Rev Chuck
Pry, sand, or otherwise remove whatever's left of the ruined pad.
Replaceme with generic Velcro sold by everyone and his uncle.
Funny that everyone hates the H&L system; the H&L pad attachment for
my PC profile sander is the greatest thing since cold beer.
Tra at adc wrote:
>
> I own a Ryobi RS115 with the hook and loop system. I have replaced the pad
> about 5 times. I talked to a Ryobi rep. and he said that the pad gets crushed
> if you apply to much pressure. Lately, with my new pad, I have been applying
> less pressure(only using the weight of the sander). This takes a lot longer and
> I get impacient but its better than spending $15 every 2 months or so. I guess
> I will just have to get rid of my pressure and stress by typing, instead of
> sanding!
> Todd Anderson
> Visit my own woodworking website at: http://members.aol.com/traatadc/tools.html
Mike Johnson
I agree!!! I love hook & loop. I wish they would make one for my table saw, (just
kidding). Buy then I'd be happier about changing blades for different cuts/woods.
daoud wrote:
> sigu...@aol.com (Sigurd246) wrote, inter alia,
RBowles96
Seems I've seen comments that applying pressure defeats thr paper and destroys
the velcro. Believe that's what I did to my PC333 (once).
In article <daoud-ya02408000...@news.erols.com>, da...@erols.com
John McGaw
Sigurd,
I have had the same sander for a couple of years and have used it heavily
with no sign of the pad wearing out. Are you, by any chance, putting enough
pressure on the sander to cause the pad to heat up? I discovered that the
Robert Sorby power sanding system for turners, which also uses the same
fastening system for its 2" and 3" disks, was having the hook pad destroyed
by overheating. The thermoplastic that forms the hooks has very little
latitude -- get it too hot and the hooks fall apart and you have to buy a
new one...
John McGaw
Knoxville, TN
Sigurd246 <sigu...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199803212212...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
> i have a bosch 5" random orbit sander, with the "hook and loop" system
for
> fastening the sanding disk to the tool. i do alot of sanding with this
tool
> and like its design. however i have had to replace the mounting pad
twice in
> the last couple of months because the hook and loops wore out. at $22 a
pop,
> this could get expensive. i think that the old fashioned adhesive backed
disks
snip...
tpe...@efws.com
Mike,
I know you said you were just kidding, bur Shopsmith does make a hook and loop
system for the large disk sander for their machine. I updated from the stick
on system. If I was doing it over again I would just buy the sanding sheets
and get the "hook portion" of the velcro from my local fabric shop like I do
now. The 12" disks, as you may imagine wear very little on the inside so I am
able to salvage the center 6" diameter and fit them on an old AMT belt/disk
sander that I fitted with the hooks. I have a 10" steel disk salvaged from a
sears radial arm saw that I can use although cutting the hole out of the
middle is a PITA. The rpm of most saws is on the high side for sanding disks
but as long as a light touch is used it seems to work ok. I use 80 grit on
one side and 120 on the other.
Tom
In article <3514D365...@rain.org>,
Mike Johnson <mi...@rain.org> wrote:
>
> I agree!!! I love hook & loop. I wish they would make one for my table saw,
(just
> kidding). Buy then I'd be happier about changing blades for different
cuts/woods.
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Sigurd246
so very sorry if the wording of my post offended anyone...it wasn't meant to do
so! i so humbly submit my apologies. thanks for all of the input. next
time i shall be very careful to remain politically correct and to be less
"abrasive" in my phrasing.
Gary Keeler
sigu...@aol.com (Sigurd246) wrote:
>i have a bosch 5" random orbit sander, with the "hook and loop" system for
>fastening the sanding disk to the tool. i do alot of sanding with this tool
>and like its design. however i have had to replace the mounting pad twice in
>the last couple of months because the hook and loops wore out. at $22 a pop,
>this could get expensive. i think that the old fashioned adhesive backed disks
>would work better. question is, does bosch make a replacement disk, without
>the hook and loops. can't seem to find them in any tool supplier catalogues.
>i've tried to just stick the adhesive pads to the worn out hooks, but it
>wouldn't hold. why do so many manufacturers use this system, which doesn't
>seem to last, or is it just me?
Just do what I did. Take a large piece of 80 or 50 grit sandpaper,
turn on the sander and sand off the hooks or loops whichever they are.
G.K.
Tra at adc
Mike Johnson
Hey Rev,
I really don't think that "EVERYONE HATES H&L" . I recall reading only a few that had
negative responses on the Hook & Loop system. I do think that those that feel the
need to use excessive downward force when sanding might as well use a grinder so they
can really get down and dirty on their project. Myself, I love to sand my work, it
means that I am almost finished and am about ready to start enjoying whatever I
built. Also it gives me time to start building my next project in my mind.
Goosh, I love working with wood, why I never thought of doing this as a hobby until
now I'll never know.
Rev Chuck wrote:
> Pry, sand, or otherwise remove whatever's left of the ruined pad.
> Replaceme with generic Velcro sold by everyone and his uncle.
>
> Funny that everyone hates the H&L system; the H&L pad attachment for
> my PC profile sander is the greatest thing since cold beer.
>
> Tra at adc wrote:
> >
Rev Chuck
If all we got back from the Apollo program was Velcro, it was worth every
penny of the half trillion dollars we spent.
Mike Johnson wrote:
>
> I agree!!! I love hook & loop. I wish they would make one for my table saw, (just
> kidding). Buy then I'd be happier about changing blades for different cuts/woods.
>
> daoud wrote:
>
> > sigu...@aol.com (Sigurd246) wrote, inter alia,
> > It's just you. And what a stupid title for a post! *You* have a problem
> > with hook and loop, and suddenly the system--by most accounts a useful
> > implementation of one of the cleverest inventions in history--"sucks"? How
> > about "Please help with hook & loop sander problem?"
> >
> > daoud
Andrew Walduck
Sigurd246 wrote:
> "a bunch of comments about hook and loop and its shortcomings"...
When I bought a 1/4 sheet sander recently, I did a lot of "thinking"
around the design of the tools,
and also where the major costs and design liabilities were going to
be...
With a sander, there are two major costs... cost of the tool and cost of
supplies.
Over the life of the tool, the cost of the sandpaper will probably
exceed the cost of the tool!!!
Given that sandpaper wears at the same rate
(regardless of attachment method either clamp, PSA or hook and loop)...
You want the cheapest sandpaper ... and that's plain old paper backing
(held by clamps).
PSA leaves a gooey mess, and "hook and loop" (aka "velcro") seems like a
"solution in search of a
problem".
So now do you buy a "round" or a square pad?? Well... round paper (5 or
8 hole?) costs more than
square paper as its precut. Also, I know that I can walk into any
hardware store and
What did I ultimately wind up with?
A PC 340 1/4 sheet sander...with a 8 hole paper punch. It means I can
buy the "cheap" 3M
8.5" x 11" sheets of paper (CDN $.80), cut them into quarter sheets, put
then on the sander (the PC has
a fairly decently designed clamp mechanism), plunk the sander in and out
of the punch (to make the
8 holes in the paper for dust removal), and sand away.
Out of a CDN $4.00 pack of sandpaper (5 sheets), I get 20 media changes
at CDN $.20 per sheet.
It doesn't get much cheaper and it does the same job as a round pad...
Sigurd246 wrote:
> i've tried to just stick the adhesive pads to the worn out hooks, but it
> wouldn't hold. why do so many manufacturers use this system, which doesn't
> seem to last, or is it just me?
Why do manufacturers use "hook and loop" or PSA? Well... with a round
pad there's
no other way to hold the paper on! Frankly I think that it is a way of
increasing
the cost of the consumables in much the same way as the inkjet printers
work. Sell them
a $150 printer, you've got the consumer hooked - they'll be back
regularly for $50 ink cartridge
regularly. Fortunately, nobody has yet discovered how to "lock you in"
to their brand sandpaper in the
same way the inkjet printer makers have (ie: foozit printers need foozit
cartridges...)
Cheers.
Andrew Walduck
waldua at nortel dot ca
Mike Johnson
This is true if what you are going for is the cheapest way to do anything. I'm
wondering, do you drive the cheapest car, live in the cheapest house, eat the
cheapest food etc? Sometimes I don't mind paying more for convenience and as
sanders go...hook and loop is a real convenience. It reminds me of my
father-in-law, he will drive accross town to save three cents on a gallon of gas,
lets see, his car holds 16 gal. of fuel times three cents...well you do the
math. It's hardly worth driving an extra 1/2 hour each way. For me its alot more
"convenient" to blow the big 39 cents ,(if the tank was dry) and use the gas
station that is ripping me off.
Rev Chuck
Name brand sandpaper outperforms generic stuff by a longshot. Abrasives
are the same, but that's only one of several factors. How sturdy is the
bond? Does the paper tend to load up with sanding smutz? How uniformly
graded are the abrasive particles?
If Norton or 3M paper costs me 20 percent more per sheet, but lasts
three times longer, doesn't clog, and doesn't gouge the nice lacquer
topcoat I'm feathering out, I'm miles ahead pricewise.
BTW, sandpaper doesn't wear out as fast as it clogs. If you think you're
going through too many sheets, try cleaning it by "sanding" a gum rubber
block pencil eraser.
Rev Chuck
Use a chisel, chop them in. No reason they have to be round.
tpe...@efws.com wrote:
>
> John,
>
> I used one of the sanding disks as a pattern then chucked a piece of brass
> tubing in the drill press, sharpened the outside edge with a file, placed
> velcro on scrap block of wood and punched 'em out.
>
> Tom
>
> In article <6f8bav$bs8$1...@excalibur.flash.net>,
> "John J. Munroe" <jmu...@flash.net> wrote:
> >
> > I have a PC sander that also wears out the velcro pad rapidly. The
> > solution: The Sanding catalog sells velcro by the sheet, along with their
> > sanding disk adhesive. I replaced the velcro once and have had no more
> > problems. The biggest problem now? How do I punch the holes in the velcro?
> >
> > Sawdust
Chris
On 21 Mar 1998 22:12:30 GMT, sigu...@aol.com (Sigurd246) wrote:
>i have a bosch 5" random orbit sander, with the "hook and loop" system for
>fastening the sanding disk to the tool. i do alot of sanding with this tool
>and like its design. however i have had to replace the mounting pad twice in
>the last couple of months because the hook and loops wore out. at $22 a pop,
>this could get expensive. i think that the old fashioned adhesive backed disks
>would work better. question is, does bosch make a replacement disk, without
>the hook and loops. can't seem to find them in any tool supplier catalogues.
>i've tried to just stick the adhesive pads to the worn out hooks, but it
>wouldn't hold. why do so many manufacturers use this system, which doesn't
>seem to last, or is it just me?
It's just you...no actually it is the heat buildup that is melting off
the tiny velcro hooks. Always keep the sander moving (don't sand in
one place too much), don't bear down on the sander, and use a vacuum
dust extraction system (the air being pulled through the holes in the
pad will help cool it).
Chris B.
John J. Munroe
I have a PC sander that also wears out the velcro pad rapidly. The
solution: The Sanding catalog sells velcro by the sheet, along with their
sanding disk adhesive. I replaced the velcro once and have had no more
problems. The biggest problem now? How do I punch the holes in the velcro?
Sawdust
Chris wrote in message <35175dee...@news.triax.com>...
Andrew Walduck
Hi Mike...
Anybody who knows me...knows I ain't cheap... However I am efficient and
I usually use
"tried and true" before going "new fangled"...(Ten years ago I bought a
very expensive
pair of Sennheiser headphones...they still work, look great and sound
fantastic...they'll
go for another ten...oh. and Sennheiser *still* has parts available for
them).
In terms of total cost of ownership a good 1/4 sheet sander blows the
doors off a
round Hook and Loop random orbit...due to the cost of supplies.
Lets look at the costs:
sander - 1/4 sheet CDN $70.00+tx round with Hook and Loop
CDN $70.00+tx
Now lets assume I use 40 sanding pads a year...
40 pads = 10 sheets of sandpaper 40 pads
expensive sandpaper is CDN $1.00 they're roughly a dollar
a pad
a sheet. (for cheap ones)
So... CDN $10 for sandpaper. So CDN $40 for sandpaper.
Over two years, with the 1/4 sheet I spend $70+$20 = $90. With the round
hook and loop...
$70+$80 = $150. A CDN $60 difference... that buys another router bit!
;-)
In terms of time savings...well. Very little if any. I precut the 1/4
sheets and keep them
in an envelope ready to use. Takes about 30 seconds to change them on
the sander.
If you have to replace the velcro pads (cause they wore out etc) on the
round hook and loop...
its cost just goes up...(and you waste time running around town when you
could be sanding...)
Cheers.
Andrew Walduck
waldua at nortel dot ca
Mike Johnson wrote:
Thomas Gauldin
Velcro (hook and loop) may not always be perfect, but it certainly has added
greatly to the athletic department of North Carolina State University.
Before Velcro was used in athletic shoes at the school, the student-athletes
had to attend shoe-tying classes each Monday morning. With Velcro instead
of laces, the student-athletes can be given an additional half hour of
practice time. <grin>
--
Tom Gauldin, Raleigh NC
-NetMeeting ils.four11.com, Live Birdfeeder Action
ICQ 7022136 fax (919) 676-1404
ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/pub/users/scoundrl/gauldin1.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Here's to the land of the Longleaf Pine,
The Summerland, where the sun doth shine,
Where the weak grow strong, and the strong grow great,
Here's to Downhome, the Old North State.
Andrew Walduck <"postmaster"@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
<6f8rp5$i...@nbdchc4.ca.nortel.com>...
tpe...@efws.com
John,
I used one of the sanding disks as a pattern then chucked a piece of brass
tubing in the drill press, sharpened the outside edge with a file, placed
velcro on scrap block of wood and punched 'em out.
Tom
In article <6f8bav$bs8$1...@excalibur.flash.net>,
"John J. Munroe" <jmu...@flash.net> wrote:
>
> I have a PC sander that also wears out the velcro pad rapidly. The
> solution: The Sanding catalog sells velcro by the sheet, along with their
> sanding disk adhesive. I replaced the velcro once and have had no more
> problems. The biggest problem now? How do I punch the holes in the velcro?
>
> Sawdust
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Kenneth L Kraay
hole. Use it from the back side of the pad.
Ken Kraay
Mike Johnson
Andrew,
I am sorry if you misunderstood me. I was trying to point out a different view, thats
all. I do shop around to find the best deals on big ticket items but I'm not one to
sweat the small stuff. I only posted because you sounded just like my father-in-law,
who is from Canada also,(who I love like my own father). Every time I go shop for
materials , tools, whatever with him he always says "don't forget the tax" when we are
comparing prices. To me the tax is there anyway so why add it in to the price
comparison. Any way I didn't mean to offend you and if I did I do apologize.
Andrew Walduck wrote:
> Hi Mike...
>
Bob.J....@lmco.com
In article <6f8rp5$i...@nbdchc4.ca.nortel.com>,
"postmaster"@[127.0.0.1] wrote:
>
> Hi Mike...
>
> Anybody who knows me...knows I ain't cheap... However I am efficient and
<snipperoo of Andrew's headphone gloat.> (Guess they don't attach with uh,
velcro, huh?;-))
Andrew, mah guess is yer an engee-neer / account-ant whose b'day is in late
August. Am I close?
Yeah, I'm witcha, Andrew, on cheep / 'fangled... ah still stoke mah 'Q with
good ol' Kingsford... none of that er, Matchlite fer me!
> In terms of total cost of ownership a good 1/4 sheet sander blows the
> doors off a round Hook and Loop random orbit...due to the cost of supplies.
<snip of Andrew's sandpapah vs hook and loop cost analysis>
> Over two years, with the 1/4 sheet I spend $70+$20 = $90. With the round
> hook and loop...
> $70+$80 = $150. A CDN $60 difference... that buys another router bit!
> ;-)
Hmmmm. The ol' quantitative approach. Methinks mah initial hunch ain't that
far off...
OK. After two years I get a 'free' routah bit? Just one?
BTW, gotta be careful with all them fractions sometimes Andrew... ah've heard
somewhere that 5 outta 4 people don't follow them too well...
> In terms of time savings...well. Very little if any. I precut the 1/4
> sheets and keep them in an envelope ready to use.
Gads, Andrew, ain't precuttin' cheatin a wee bit here? Or do you do that while
yer watchin Nahm on teevee? BTW, how many envelopes you got? One fer each
grit? Jes' part of my theory here... if so, yer leanin' heavily towards a
Virgo...
> Takes about 30 seconds to change them on the sander.
This is after you've retrieved yer particyoolah grit, ah 'spose? All this is
startin' to come together, Andrew. Really.
> If you have to replace the velcro pads (cause they wore out etc) on the
> round hook and loop... its cost just goes up... (and you waste time running
> around town when you could be sanding...)
Did you account for this cost above too? And the gas for all this' chasin'
around? Could this mean another free routah bit? Ah don't member the dee tails
anymore. Sorry.
At any rate, Andrew, I sure am glad I've hung on to my ol' PC 330 Speedbloc.
None of those hook and loop gizwiggers fer me 'nether! Lessee, I oughtta have
about uh, 8-10 free routah bits comin... or did I already buy those? Hmmm.
Cheers, Bob
Andrew Walduck
Bob.J....@lmco.com wrote:
> Andrew, mah guess is yer an engee-neer / account-ant whose b'day is in late
> August. Am I close?
> <rest of shameless lampoon of myself snipped...>
Thanks Bob... I just about died in fits of laughter... ;-) You made my
day...
ObWoodworking: Do you like the PC 330? Does it have "holes" in the
sandpaper?
Cheers
Andrew Walduck
waldua at nortel dot ca
If you can't laugh at yourself... who can you laugh at???
Richard Edwards
Sigurd246 wrote:
> i have a bosch 5" random orbit sander, with the "hook and loop" system for
> fastening the sanding disk to the tool. i do alot of sanding with this tool
> and like its design. however i have had to replace the mounting pad twice in
> the last couple of months because the hook and loops wore out. at $22 a pop,
> this could get expensive. i think that the old fashioned adhesive backed disks
> would work better. question is, does bosch make a replacement disk, without
> the hook and loops. can't seem to find them in any tool supplier catalogues.
> i've tried to just stick the adhesive pads to the worn out hooks, but it
> wouldn't hold. why do so many manufacturers use this system, which doesn't
> seem to last, or is it just me?
You have to use sandpaper.
Rev Chuck
Rich Towle - MD6-FDC wrote:
>
> In article <35156A...@erolls.com>, Rev Chuck <cd...@erolls.com> wrote:
> >If all we got back from the Apollo program was Velcro, it was worth every
> >penny of the half trillion dollars we spent.
>
> idea for velcro was spawned in 1948 and the patent was granted in 1955.
> See http://inventors.tqn.com/library/weekly/aa091297.htm
>
> --
Damn, what _did_ we get back for our half trillion?
H&L fasteners are said to be the only fasteners that actually tighten
under vibration.
Rich Towle - MD6-FDC
In article <35156A...@erolls.com>, Rev Chuck <cd...@erolls.com> wrote:
>If all we got back from the Apollo program was Velcro, it was worth every
>penny of the half trillion dollars we spent.
That would be true had we spent even a penny "getting back" Velcro. The
idea for velcro was spawned in 1948 and the patent was granted in 1955.
See http://inventors.tqn.com/library/weekly/aa091297.htm
--
| Rich Towle | All opinions expressed in this post are mine and |
| | do not necessarily reflect the views of Intel. |
| rto...@pcocd2.intel.com | The facts, of course, apply to everyone. :-) |
Al Taylor
On Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:09:06 -0600, "John J. Munroe"
<jmu...@flash.net> wrote:
>I have a PC sander that also wears out the velcro pad rapidly. The
>solution: The Sanding catalog sells velcro by the sheet, along with their
>sanding disk adhesive. I replaced the velcro once and have had no more
>problems. The biggest problem now? How do I punch the holes in the velcro?
>
>Sawdust
Forstner drill bits are perfect.
I've never had ANY signs of wear on my hook and loop pads, I've rammed
'em and jammed 'em. What are you people doing to 'em?
Al
Bob.J....@lmco.com
In article <6fbt5h$4...@nbdchc4.ca.nortel.com>,
"postmaster"@[127.0.0.1] wrote:
>
> Bob.J....@lmco.com wrote:
> > Andrew, mah guess is yer an engee-neer / account-ant whose b'day is in
late
> > August. Am I close?
> Software/Hardware guy in October...
I jes' *knew* it! Missed yer b'day by a month or so tho. Darn.
Hmmmmm. Ya know Andrew, it jes' seems that there are more than a few 'puter
engee-neers out thar that reeelly enjoy woodworking too. A *bit* tangibility
deprived mebbe? They gotta engee-ner and build somethin' they can reeelly put
their mits on fer a change? I dunno. Jes' a random thought that bounced into
the ol' puzzler...
> > <rest of shameless lampoon of myself snipped...>
> Thanks Bob... I just about died in fits of laughter... ;-) You made my
> day...
Well shucks, Andrew. You've just made mine too.
>
> ObWoodworking: Do you like the PC 330?
Yep. I love that lil' monstah. Built like a tank. Will prolly outlast me by a
pretty fair margin as I have no intention of givin' up red meat soon. I read
somewheres that the 330 was *thee first* 1/4 sheet 'palm' sander. At any
rate, it has been on the mkt. mebbe 40 some odd years. Leaves a nice, swirl
free finish. Weighs a lot tho, which is kinda nice, unless you have to do any
sandin' at arms length, or over yer noggin'. Funny, that few have mentioned it
in this forum or elsewhere, as I *think* PC still makes them. I wouldn't trade
it for any of those er, 'new fangled' types they've got out now, although a
ROS would be nice.
> Does it have "holes" in the sandpaper?
None that are intentional. ;-) Naw, it ain't got one of them dust collection
feetures, if that's what ya mean. Actually, I haven't seen one yet that picks
up a signficant amount of dust anyway, unless the thing is hooked to a vacuum
like a Fen. Or is it Phen. Well, you know...
Y'all take 'er easy up there Andrew!
John Watson
In article <3518D0...@erolls.com>, cd...@erolls.com says...
> Rich Towle - MD6-FDC wrote:
> >
> > >If all we got back from the Apollo program was Velcro, it was worth every
> > >penny of the half trillion dollars we spent.
> >
> > That would be true had we spent even a penny "getting back" Velcro. The
> > idea for velcro was spawned in 1948 and the patent was granted in 1955.
> > See http://inventors.tqn.com/library/weekly/aa091297.htm
> >
> > --
>
>
> H&L fasteners are said to be the only fasteners that actually tighten
> under vibration.
>
We all learned a lot, one of which is that Velcro is really useful stuff.
Still, it took a long time before it became widely available to the
general public - like 20 years. Maybe it was a patent thing.
Also, the military and aerospace firms were probably buying up every
inch, the original company could make. I first saw "Velcro" in rolls in
1980 while working for Rockwell, took ten years, I think, before I saw
it at K-mart, and then it wasn't "Velcro" either, just "hook & loop",
and some of the stuff then was real shitty then, too. And now there
are lots of exegete variations on the hook & loop, only one comes to
at the moment, and it used plastic, "Mushroom like," things for both
sides, sort of a "hook & hook" system. But took significant force to
fasten them together.
Last I heard about the Velcro Corp., was that they had a "top secret"
co9ntract with the US Army, (in the late '70s,) to develop a special
"Silent Velcro."
A very important thing, when stealth is required. I've never seen it,
or heard any more about it, other than they were pretty sure they
could make it work. I'm really sure the CIA, ATF, and FBI, were also
"very" interested it. I wonder if any of it has filtered now to the
local level? SWAT teams use miles of the stuff.
But too, love the stuff and use everywhere.
Whoever first started the thread and said it sucks, may just not have
the "right" type for his application, or lame to begin with.
--
John Watson -
The email address in the header is wrong.
Remove the "X" and it is correct.
Alan_Browning
In article <3518D0...@erolls.com>, cd...@erolls.com says...
>
>Rich Towle - MD6-FDC wrote:
>>
>> In article <35156A...@erolls.com>, Rev Chuck <cd...@erolls.com> wrote:
>> >If all we got back from the Apollo program was Velcro, it was worth every
>> >penny of the half trillion dollars we spent.
>>
>> That would be true had we spent even a penny "getting back" Velcro. The
>> idea for velcro was spawned in 1948 and the patent was granted in 1955.
>> See http://inventors.tqn.com/library/weekly/aa091297.htm
>>
>> --
>
>Damn, what _did_ we get back for our half trillion?
Lots o' stuff, none of which I can name. Wait a minute...I can name one: Tang.
I can name another: HEPA filters (I read this somewhere. Don't know if it's
true).
AlB
Colin Montoya-Lewis
Rev Chuck wrote in message <3518D0...@erolls.com>...
>Rich Towle - MD6-FDC wrote:
>>
>> In article <35156A...@erolls.com>, Rev Chuck <cd...@erolls.com>
wrote:
>> >If all we got back from the Apollo program was Velcro, it was worth
every
>> >penny of the half trillion dollars we spent.
>>
>> That would be true had we spent even a penny "getting back" Velcro. The
>> idea for velcro was spawned in 1948 and the patent was granted in 1955.
>> See http://inventors.tqn.com/library/weekly/aa091297.htm
>>
>> --
>
>Damn, what _did_ we get back for our half trillion?
Teflon? Tang?
-Colin
Don Levey
That does sort of make sense, don't you think?
If you had heard about it, the stealth surprise would have been gone.
-Don
On Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:57:48 -0800, john...@mindspring.com (John
Watson) wrote:
>
>Last I heard about the Velcro Corp., was that they had a "top secret"
>co9ntract with the US Army, (in the late '70s,) to develop a special
>"Silent Velcro."
>
>A very important thing, when stealth is required. I've never seen it,
>or heard any more about it, other than they were pretty sure they
>could make it work.
>--
>John Watson -
>The email address in the header is wrong.
>Remove the "X" and it is correct.
By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets
the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is
unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment. By
Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever
is greater, for each violation. All nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent
to this address is construed as being sent to a fax machine and subject
to a $500 fine.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| By sending me unsolicited commercial email you agree to pay my |
| standard consulting fee of $250/hr for examining your message (a |
| minimum charge of one (1) hour). The bill for my service will be |
| sent to you along with my analysis of your message. |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Walduck
> Hmmmmm. Ya know Andrew, it jes' seems that there are more than a few 'puter
> engee-neers out thar that reeelly enjoy woodworking too. A *bit* tangibility
> deprived mebbe? They gotta engee-ner and build somethin' they can reeelly put
> their mits on fer a change? I dunno. Jes' a random thought that bounced into
> the ol' puzzler...
Well...hmm... I just like creating things... In my day job, I train
electrons...
in the evening... I create sawdust... (or circuits or ...);-)
> > ObWoodworking: Do you like the PC 330?
> Yep. I love that lil' monstah. Built like a tank. Will prolly outlast me by a
> pretty fair margin as I have no intention of givin' up red meat soon. I read
> somewheres that the 330 was *thee first* 1/4 sheet 'palm' sander. At any
> rate, it has been on the mkt. mebbe 40 some odd years. Leaves a nice, swirl
> free finish. Weighs a lot tho, which is kinda nice, unless you have to do any
> sandin' at arms length, or over yer noggin'. Funny, that few have mentioned it
> in this forum or elsewhere, as I *think* PC still makes them. I wouldn't trade
> it for any of those er, 'new fangled' types they've got out now, although a
> ROS would be nice.
Yes... they still make it, check out http://www.porter-cable.com
It says alot about their engineering if they're still selling it 40
years later...
It would be interesting to see what's been revised...
I'd never heard of PC until I started reading wreck.woodworking... I
bought their
PC 340 sander (its the 330s little brother with holes in the paper and a
dust catcher...)
> > Does it have "holes" in the sandpaper?
> None that are intentional. ;-) Naw, it ain't got one of them dust collection
> feetures, if that's what ya mean. Actually, I haven't seen one yet that picks
> up a signficant amount of dust anyway, unless the thing is hooked to a vacuum
> like a Fen. Or is it Phen. Well, you know...
Actually, I'm amazed with the PC 340... It seems that a lot more sawdust
winds up in the
catcher than outside the catcher... (it fills up pretty quickly, every
10 minutes or so...
with 150 grit). If you run the sander without it...dust blasts out the
port!!
Its also pretty aggressive... I have to be careful not to sand too much
off!!!
Needless to say, now I look at PC tools first.... ;-)
Cheers.
Andrew Walduck
Bill Bright
> > >
> > > In article <35156A...@erolls.com>, Rev Chuck <cd...@erolls.com> wrote:
> > > >If all we got back from the Apollo program was Velcro, it was worth every
> > > >penny of the half trillion dollars we spent.
> > >
> > > That would be true had we spent even a penny "getting back" Velcro. The
> > > idea for velcro was spawned in 1948 and the patent was granted in 1955.
> > > See http://inventors.tqn.com/library/weekly/aa091297.htm
> > >
> > > --
> >
> > Damn, what _did_ we get back for our half trillion?
> >
> > under vibration.
> >
>
> We all learned a lot, one of which is that Velcro is really useful stuff.
> Still, it took a long time before it became widely available to the
> general public - like 20 years. Maybe it was a patent thing.
>
> Also, the military and aerospace firms were probably buying up every
> inch, the original company could make. I first saw "Velcro" in rolls in
> 1980 while working for Rockwell, took ten years, I think, before I saw
> it at K-mart, and then it wasn't "Velcro" either, just "hook & loop",
> and some of the stuff then was real shitty then, too. And now there
> are lots of exegete variations on the hook & loop, only one comes to
> at the moment, and it used plastic, "Mushroom like," things for both
> sides, sort of a "hook & hook" system. But took significant force to
> fasten them together.
>
> co9ntract with the US Army, (in the late '70s,) to develop a special
> "Silent Velcro."
>
> A very important thing, when stealth is required. I've never seen it,
> or heard any more about it, other than they were pretty sure they
> "very" interested it. I wonder if any of it has filtered now to the
> local level? SWAT teams use miles of the stuff.
>
> But too, love the stuff and use everywhere.
> Whoever first started the thread and said it sucks, may just not have
> the "right" type for his application, or lame to begin with.
>
> John Watson -
> The email address in the header is wrong.
> Remove the "X" and it is correct.
Ya, make fun of stealth velcro. How about this? Your in the jungle in
enemy territory, its at night, the bad guys are all around, you have to
pee and all you have is a non-stealthy velcro fly. One riiiiippppp and
the bad guys will have you for lunch. What would you give for stealth
velcro then????
Rick Redus
In article <6feca2$8...@cocoa.brown.edu>, Alan_B...@brown.edu
(Alan_Browning) wrote:
> In article <3518D0...@erolls.com>, cd...@erolls.com says...
> >
> >Rich Towle - MD6-FDC wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <35156A...@erolls.com>, Rev Chuck <cd...@erolls.com> wrote:
> >> >If all we got back from the Apollo program was Velcro, it was worth every
> >> >penny of the half trillion dollars we spent.
> >>
> >> That would be true had we spent even a penny "getting back" Velcro. The
> >> idea for velcro was spawned in 1948 and the patent was granted in 1955.
> >> See http://inventors.tqn.com/library/weekly/aa091297.htm
> >>
> >> --
> >
> >Damn, what _did_ we get back for our half trillion?
>
> Lots o' stuff, none of which I can name. Wait a minute...I can name one:
Tang.
> I can name another: HEPA filters (I read this somewhere. Don't know if it's
> true).
>
> AlB
Also Mylar and Teflon.
--
RR
Lakin
Andrew, so you went with a plain palm sander rather than random orbit
in order to maintain using quarter sheet supplies. I feel random orbit
was a great enhansement on power sander design, I think you are
missing out.
-EL
On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:09:49 -0500, Andrew Walduck
<"postmaster"@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>Why do manufacturers use "hook and loop" or PSA? Well... with a round
>pad there's
>no other way to hold the paper on! Frankly I think that it is a way of
>increasing
Paul Mc Cann
In article <351B2E...@calinet.com>, wbr...@calinet.com says...
> John Watson wrote:
> >
> > In article <3518D0...@erolls.com>, cd...@erolls.com says...
> > > Rich Towle - MD6-FDC wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <35156A...@erolls.com>, Rev Chuck <cd...@erolls.com> wrote:
> > > > >If all we got back from the Apollo program was Velcro, it was worth every
> > > > >penny of the half trillion dollars we spent.
> > > >
> > > > That would be true had we spent even a penny "getting back" Velcro.
snip.
> And now there are lots of exegete variations on the hook & loop,
snip
> >
> > --
Forgive me but I just can't puzzle out what you meant to say here
(exegete ?)
I think I know what exegete means (hyper-critical analysis ?)
Care to enlighten ?
(I'm not nit-picking just genuinely curious)
--
Paul Mc Cann
KAntone107
i have a makita hook and loop system on a random orbit sander.
instead of replacing the pad i bought a sheet of the hook (or was
it the loop, cut out a piece and used 3m 77 adhesive to glue it on
the old pad. it has been sdeveral months and works great. remember
very light pressure when using a random orbit sander. i bought the
sheet at woodworkers warehouse for 5 or 6 dollars and i can make
three or four replacements
william epstein
Whaddaya use to drill the holes?
ad...@understandmore.co.uk
Is it that this problem is solved and no-one has this problem still?
I am not politically correct when it comes to the title!
I agree with the first post, I must be very heavy handed as I find hook and loop does not last for me, and my wife must be equally heavy handed as she finds exactly the same with her workshop tools.
Bosch PSM80 sander - £38 in the UK, £15 for the new hook and loop pad, which last me 3 months. Also a dust collector with a paper filter, the whole collector has to be replaced at£8 instead of a replaceable paper filter.
Bosch PDA 100 delta sander - £14 for a plastic triangle with hook and loop.
Bosch PMF 190E multi tool, £15 for a plastic triangle with hook and loop.
At a time when environmental issues have at last been recognised why does Bosch make energy friendly washing machines but resource wasting workshop tools?
Not only that but I can't get spares for my 25 year old electric plane!
Obviously not only am I heavy handed but I do not learn through experience and seem to keep buying Bosch!
Puckdropper at dot
news:52a57f9f-d32f-477f...@googlegroups.com:
paper?
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
Larry Blanchard
> Was this really posted in '98?
>
> Is it that this problem is solved and no-one has this problem still?
Bosch sander I had then and I still haven't had to replace the pad!
Leon
and loop. Festool too hot to touch at times but the pad does fine until
it is worn out, about every 3 years.
John McCoy
@speranza.aioe.org:
and I have to replace pads every 4 or 5 years. The dense
foam rubber they're made of eventually gets crumbly.
Probably depends partly on how much you use it, and partly
on the climate (the local climate being hard on any sort of
plastic or rubber).
John
Larry Blanchard
>> I seem to remember responding way back then. I've still got the same
>> Bosch sander I had then and I still haven't had to replace the pad!
>
> Now that's remarkable. I have the PSA version of the sander, and I have
> to replace pads every 4 or 5 years. The dense foam rubber they're made
> of eventually gets crumbly.
rubber with the hook and loop stuff on it. Never reminded me of foam.
And I don't use it a lot, maybe 20-30 hours a year. Our humidity is
pretty low as well.
Leon
John McCoy
news:5vadnUkX5tLcY1DI...@giganews.com:
on the inside.
Back when I bought the sander ('94?) there were two stiffnesses
of pads offered, but now there only seems to be one. I always
thought the harder pad (the one still available) was borderline
too soft anyway, so maybe the softer one didn't sell.
John
Just Wondering
http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-RS035-5-Inch-Hook--Backing/dp/B00EMFO6BI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1439616582&sr=8-1&keywords=bosch+ros+pad
Soft pad for Bosch sander - 12 dollars.
http://www.amazon.com/BOSCH-In-Soft-Hook-Loop/dp/B004BG5QXK/ref=pd_bxgy_469_text_y
Paul Kribbs
> i have a bosch 5" random orbit sander, with the "hook and loop" system for
> this could get expensive. i think that the old fashioned adhesive backed disks
> would work better. question is, does bosch make a replacement disk, without
> the hook and loops. can't seem to find them in any tool supplier catalogues.
> i've tried to just stick the adhesive pads to the worn out hooks, but it
> wouldn't hold. why do so many manufacturers use this system, which doesn't
> seem to last, or is it just me?
Scrape the " hooks" off ur sander pad or singe em off with a lighter or propane torch, kitchen stove whatever works man. Dont catch it on fire n burn down ur shop or house or nothing crazy. Or buy a good sander. Remember, "You get what u pay for", its cliche, but its mostly true. And I dont use my Makita every day but it gets put thRU the paces around 5-6 times a yr, at least
Paul Kribbs
> Pry, sand, or otherwise remove whatever's left of the ruined pad.
> Replaceme with generic Velcro sold by everyone and his uncle.
> Funny that everyone hates the H&L system; the H&L pad attachment for
> my PC profile sander is the greatest thing since cold beer.
>
> Tra at adc wrote:
> >
> > I own a Ryobi RS115 with the hook and loop system. I have replaced the pad
> > about 5 times. I talked to a Ryobi rep. and he said that the pad gets crushed
> > if you apply to much pressure. Lately, with my new pad, I have been applying
> > less pressure(only using the weight of the sander). This takes a lot longer and
> > I get impacient but its better than spending $15 every 2 months or so. I guess
> > I will just have to get rid of my pressure and stress by typing, instead of
> > sanding!
> > Todd Anderson
> > Visit my own woodworking website at: http://members.aol.com/traatadc/tools.html
Didnt even c these were 20 yrs old. The right grit n right abrasive on the paper n that sander will tear shit up without applying to much pressure at all. Enuff that it doesn't walk all over the place. Sumtimes that ¼" that hangs oveR pad can b ur best friend. If u gotta sand with the "edge" of the sander for a stubborn blemish. Dont push hardly at all. Good practice so ur not wasting any good part of the disc. Those things arnt cheap
Paul Kribbs
> so very sorry if the wording of my post offended anyone...it wasn't meant to do
> so! i so humbly submit my apologies. thanks for all of the input. next
> time i shall be very careful to remain politically correct and to be less
> "abrasive" in my phrasing.
If people cant read shit n not get offended,fck em. N that was 20 yrs ago that people were whinning n bitching n moaning about,"that offends me" n "N its happy holidays n not Merry Xmas. Wtf,look at us now. I pity this country n what we have become and how soft our kids n grandkids are. Its nuts
Paul Kribbs
> Hey Rev,
> I really don't think that "EVERYONE HATES H&L" . I recall reading only a few that had
> negative responses on the Hook & Loop system. I do think that those that feel the
> need to use excessive downward force when sanding might as well use a grinder so they
> can really get down and dirty on their project. Myself, I love to sand my work, it
> means that I am almost finished and am about ready to start enjoying whatever I
> built. Also it gives me time to start building my next project in my mind.
> Goosh, I love working with wood, why I never thought of doing this as a hobby until
> now I'll never know.
> Rev Chuck wrote:
> > Pry, sand, or otherwise remove whatever's left of the ruined pad.
> > Replaceme with generic Velcro sold by everyone and his uncle.
> >
> > Funny that everyone hates the H&L system; the H&L pad attachment for
> > my PC profile sander is the greatest thing since cold beer.
> >
> > Tra at adc wrote:
> > >
> > > I own a Ryobi RS115 with the hook and loop system. I have replaced the pad
> > > about 5 times. I talked to a Ryobi rep. and he said that the pad gets crushed
> > > if you apply to much pressure. Lately, with my new pad, I have been applying
> > > less pressure(only using the weight of the sander). This takes a lot longer and
> > > I get impacient but its better than spending $15 every 2 months or so. I guess
> > > I will just have to get rid of my pressure and stress by typing, instead of
> > > sanding!
> > > Todd Anderson
> > > Visit my own woodworking website at: http://members.aol.com/traatadc/tools.html
k...@notreal.com
same problem. Junk. My Festools have no problem with hook and loop.
Great sandpaper too. There really is a difference.