White Fuzz on Cedar wood???
Kevin Hawes
on a freshly sawn piece of cedar wood? It takes several days for the
hairs to develop. The hairs are around 1/16" long and are easily
wiped away.
The junior chemist in me has me scratching my head. Is it some kind
of aromatic condensation? Out of sheer curiosity I'd like to see
them under a microscope sometime.
Kevin Hawes
George
"Kevin Hawes" <toolb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Leon
type of organic growth. When my outside back door mat gets good and wet
from lots of rain it grows mushrooms.
"Kevin Hawes" <toolb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Kevin Hawes
I believe this is a red cedar tree. The needles were of the short
(1/8") length (going from memory). The wood smells of cedar closet.
My buddy and I cut this down around 4 months ago when they were
widening the road.
I took a closer look through one of those radio shack handheld 30x
magnifiers. By the way those are great for seeing small stuff and
only around $20. I don't believe it's a mold of fungus since the
whiskers are very straight. The whiskers seem to grow in a crevice in
the wood especially if the crevice is covered by another piece of
wood. This would support the theory that it needs a localized
environment of moisture? or vapors from the wood itself.
The whiskers are absolutely straight often radiating from a common
point of the wood. My guess is rosin also.
Kevin
Larry Jaques
posted recycled pixels stating:
>The whiskers are absolutely straight often radiating from a common
>point of the wood. My guess is rosin also.
Are you absolutely positive it's not just the raising of
the grain as the surface dries?
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Mo' Sawdust
a cedar closet, this wood appears to be aromatic cedar. Regular cedar
smells too, but not as fragrant as aromatic cedar. The whiskers
are some sort of salt crystals. This is seen on the wood that is
bought from a borg for cedar lining, that are packaged cardboard
bundles, although not as pronounced as yours is (1/16th of an inch
high).
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Kevin Hawes
Kevin wrote:
>Are these whiskers whitish/clear in colour?
Yes, The whiskers appear white and sparkle in the light. They are
straight from the point they leave the wood surface to the end of the
whisker. I believe they are some form of crystal. I would still like
to know the chemical makeup of the crystal.
If anyone would like to grow their own "Mystery Crystals" you could
repeat my method which I have only done once by accident.
1. Start with a 3" in diameter branch of aromatic cedar 20-60%
moisture and chuck it in a lathe. Turn off the bark leaving a
cylinder 2-3" in diameter. Face cut the cylinder leaving a square
end. Turn a series of 3/16 deep V cuts in the end from the center
out to the edge of the 3" diameter. The V cuts do not meet at the
top. It basically looks like thread pattern if you were to saw it in
half. For the V cuts I used a parting tool tipped 45 degrees from the
end of the cylinder. Part off the chunk of wood so you end up with a
hockey puck size of cedar 1" high. Cut another hockey puck with flat
ends, which is placed on top of the V cuts, and the two pucks are then
left alone in the shop for 2-3 days. The storage conditions in the
shop were dark, temp around 70 degrees F. some saw dust in the air as
any good shop should have. This is how the "Mystery Crystals" were
created.
If anyone figures out some practical use for this phenomenon maybe we
can all become millionaires.
Thanks for the feedback.
Take Care,
Kevin
Kevin Hawes
Are the whiskers whitish/clear in color?
Yes, The whiskers appear white and sparkle in the light. They are
straight from the point they leave the wood surface to the end of the
whisker. I also believe them to be some form of crystal. I'd still
like to know what the chemical name is.
If anyone would like to grow their own "Mystery Crystals" you could
repeat my method which I have only done once by accident.
1. Start with a 3" in diameter branch of aromatic cedar 20-60%
moisture and chuck it in a lathe. Turn off the bark leaving a
cylinder 2-3" in diameter. Face cut the cylinder leaving a square
end. Turn a series of 3/16 deep V cuts in the end from the center
out to the edge of the 3" diameter. The V cuts do not meet at the
top. It basically looks like thread pattern if you were to saw it in
half. For the V cuts I used a parting tool tipped 45 degrees from the
end of the cylinder. Part off the chunk of wood so you end up with a
hockey puck size of cedar 1" high. Cut another hockey puck with flat
ends, which is placed on top of the V cuts, and the two pucks are then
left alone in the shop for 2-3 days. The storage conditions in the
shop were dark, temp around 70 degrees F. some saw dust in the air as
any good shop should have. This is how the "Mystery Crystals" were
created.
If anyone figures out some practical use for this phenomenon maybe we
can all retire.
Take Care and thanks for the dialog.
Kevin
Larry Jaques
posted recycled pixels stating:
>Kevin wrote:
>Are the whiskers whitish/clear in color?
>
>Yes, The whiskers appear white and sparkle in the light. They are
>straight from the point they leave the wood surface to the end of the
>whisker. I also believe them to be some form of crystal. I'd still
>like to know what the chemical name is.
So take a damned macro shot, post it on ABPF, and let us
see what it is you're talking about, Kevvy. We'll confirm
that it's birdseye SPF sap/tar/goo for ya.
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sassafras
Keven,
I'll try to keep the answer short so, keep your junior chemist hat on.
:) Cedar esspecially incense cedar has volatiles that will crystalize
under certain situations. The one that can form what you saw is
libocedrol (6-p-methoxythymoxy-p-methoxythymol) which has melting
point of around 85-87 C. There is also a p-methoxythymol addition
complex of libocedrol, which melts at around 91-92 degree C. You could
find out which by seeing what temperature it melts at or, use a gas
chromatograph - if you have one handy. :)
Anyway, incense cedar usually has about 2% dry weight libocedrol and
it can form a mixture of needle shaped crystals and dust. It can be
removed by scraping or with solvents, such as acetone, ethanol,
n-hexane, or cloroform. But remember, be chemical wise and don't over
do it, libicedrol is part of the cedar smell so solvents will remove
it.
Mike.
tnfkajs
"sassafras" <bonn...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:a0b1bd3b.02091...@posting.google.com...
> libocedrol (6-p-methoxythymoxy-p-methoxythymol) which has melting
> point of around 85-87 C. There is also a p-methoxythymol addition
> complex of libocedrol, which melts at around 91-92 degree C. You could
> find out which by seeing what temperature it melts at or, use a gas
> chromatograph - if you have one handy. :)
Thanks for reminding me how much I disliked Organic Chem - all three
semesters... :)
Kevin Hawes
Mike, My curiosity has been well satisfied. Very nice summary of
what is going on. Thanks Mike!
Kevin
ax2...@yahoo.com
The white is removed easily by mechanical force. it's just a matter of finding the best brush. My question is: Do you think to they could be harmful IF breathed because they are spores I plan on using a vacuum the conjunction with the brush.
I'm also considering a light sanding to bring up the aroma.Thanks a million for your post. Jack
woodchucker
wicked up the moisture from the concrete, then you have the salts and
other crap in the wood. I never store wood on the floor, I always put a
scraficial shelf down. I also covered my floor with commercial grade
linoleum to protect tools and from the constant concrete dust and salts.
--
Jeff
G. Ross
Sonny
> Eastern Red Cedar wood will lose some of it's volatile components with
> time, and some of them will crystallize on the surface. Just brush
> them off. Try using the brush attachment on a vacuum cleaner.
>
Crystalization is not dependent on higher temps. The crystals can form at room temps. As I see/experience most of my rough cut ER cedar, once the resin is exposed to air, it will readily "crystalize". As I assume is happening, the resin, inside the wood, remains fluid, like mercury in a thermometer. Once it becomes exposed, then only certain, of the chemicals, making up the resin, will crystalize. I think, as GW says, once the volatiles of the fluid evaporate, then the remaining "solids" will crystalize or dry in crystal-like form.
In the dense wood areas, like knots and really tight grain areas, the "sap" seeps out and, often, doesn't dry completely.... it remains really gummy, somewhat hard taffy-like. That gum has to be scraped off, not sanded.
This oozing of sap can be seen on live trees, also, where there might be damage to the tree or some sort of exposure of the inner bark, allowing the sap to ooze out and hardens, begins to harden. If you've ever climbed a cedar tree, it's not uncommon to get some of this sap on yourself and it doesn't wash off easily, either.
I've done lots of projects with ER cedar, often times working outdoors in good sunlight. If you ever do a project, don't expose a planed board or your pre-finished (prepped, ready to apply finish) project to direct sunlight. Slight temps rises, slight heating, by even a little direct sunlight, will cause the resin to move (like mercury in a thermometer). You'll hear small popping sounds, as the wood heats up... it doesn't take much heating .... and you'll know it's too much, because you'll hear the popping sounds. This will be the precursor to those crystals starting to form and, if the exposure is long enough, you'll have to resand the board or project. Many times, until I learned better, I'd have to resand a project, before I learn not expose it to sunlight, that way.
Sonny
jmelyn...@gmail.com
Jaime
Dr Phil
Sonny
> https://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1299117985234_7159248.png
That may be a valid reply.
When you're away from home, symptoms are relieved, unless it's humid or raining? I doubt humidity/rain has anything to do with it. The cedar wood (resin) is not likely the cause, either.
Have you bought new furniture (mattress?) and, since, have been having these issues? Might be the foam in the furniture, that you're reacting to. I would suppose your allergist has ruled out a wool allergy cause, as well..... if not, maybe go get a second opinion.
Sonny
