How best to cut a piece of melamine shelving so it doesn't chip?

[busbus]

Hello,

I have the need to cut a piece of melamine shelf into about 16-inch pieces.
The shelf is six-feet long and 12-inches wide and it is a bit unruly for me
to hold on the table saw by myself. So I figured I should make 18-inch wide
piece with my circular saw then cut them down to final size on the table
saw.

I have three questions:

1. I do not have a melamine blade on either saw. Do you think I can keep
chipping to a minimum by running a piece of masking tape over the line I am
cutting?

2. Which side is facing up for the circular saw?

3. Which side is facing up for the table saw?


Thanks!
ray

[DanG]

Ray, the masking tape isn't going to hurt, but probably won't help much
either. You will get a good cut if the blade is fairly sharp. The chip
out will be on the back of the cut. It is possible to use the table
saw, set the blade VERY low to cut the bottom of the melamine, then
raise the blade and make the usual cut. This will work if you have a
good solid fence to allow duplicating the original cut line.

2. Good side up on the table saw
3. Good side down on the circular saw

So you don't need to ask again - You want the sharp teeth entering the
good side, so the table saw will be driving the teeth down



--


___________________________________

Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G
remove the seven

[Sonny]

I don't recall ever cutting melamine, so I have a question, also.
Would sawing it proud, then finishing the edges with a straight bit/
router produce a better job than using a saw?

Sonny

[DanG]

Melamine sheet goods will be bonded to something - particle board or MDF
are typical. The raw edges will need some type of finish. There are
heat bonded edging, t-mouldings, or paint finishes. Router bits will
give clean edges.

[busbus]

"DanG" <dgri...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:jk4oe0$6mq$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

>
> Melamine sheet goods will be bonded to something - particle board or MDF
> are typical. The raw edges will need some type of finish. There are heat
> bonded edging, t-mouldings, or paint finishes. Router bits will give
> clean edges.
>

I don't need the cleanest edging as the edges will not be exposed. I am
using the melamine as a base to some fly-tying benches and I have cut a
rabbet about 5/16" deep around the side boards and the melamine will sit
beneath and inside the side boards. I don't need a beautiful edge and I can
live with a very small bit of chipping. That said, I could use the router
table--I just thought the router might chip more.

Thanks

[John Grossbohlin]

"busbus" <bus...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:jk4p2e$8a1$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

On your table saw cuts you could score the cuts before making the through
cuts. To do this set the blade height so that the teeth just cut through the
surface of the melamine and then,without moving the fence, raise the blade
and make the through cut. That should all but eliminate the chipping on the
bottom of you table saw cuts.

John

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, March 18, 2012 6:47:58 AM UTC-7, busbus wrote:
> "DanG" <dgri...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:jk4oe0$6mq$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> >
> > Melamine sheet goods will be bonded to something - particle board or MDF

> > are typical. ...

> ... I could use the router

> table--I just thought the router might chip more.

A router bit that does well in wood, might make fur in MDF (the
cutter angles aren't ideal); if you use spiral solid carbide, the
cut direction should push the melamine surface into its substrate
(upcut spiral mounted upside down in a router table would pull
the work DOWN, so should cut with melamine surface on top).

It is sometimes the case that adhesives and laminates gunk up a
blade, so you'd want to inspect the cutter frequently and keep
your brass brush and cleaner solutions handy.

[Bill Waller]

I have always had much better luck finish cutting melamine with a router.
__________________
Bill Waller
New Eagle, PA

wsw...@comcast.net

[Robert Bonomi]

In article <jk4isn$o46$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,

busbus <bus...@verizon.net> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I have the need to cut a piece of melamine shelf into about 16-inch pieces.
>The shelf is six-feet long and 12-inches wide and it is a bit unruly for me
>to hold on the table saw by myself. So I figured I should make 18-inch wide
>piece with my circular saw then cut them down to final size on the table
>saw.
>
>I have three questions:
>
>1. I do not have a melamine blade on either saw. Do you think I can keep
>chipping to a minimum by running a piece of masking tape over the line I am
>cutting?

masking tape will help.

"Better" is to make a 'sandwich' with a couple of pieces of sacrificial
stock surrounding the shelf 'middle'. use _double-sided_ masking tape
to hold the pieces of the sandwich together.

>2. Which side is facing up for the circular saw?
>3. Which side is facing up for the table saw?

Generally you want the leading edge of the blade cutting from 'outside'
the board, into the melamine, and thence into the shelf substrate.

This means that the melamine would be the side "away" from the saw
table, or away from the baseplate.

[dadiOH]

Yes.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

[Luigi Zanasi]

On Mar 18, 1:10 pm, "dadiOH" <dad...@invalid.com> wrote:
> Sonny wrote:
> > I don't recall ever cutting melamine, so I have a question, also.
> > Would sawing it proud, then finishing the edges with a straight bit/
> > router produce a better job than using a saw?
>
> > Sonny
>
> Yes.

Like he said. In my experience, a router is the only way to get a
perfect edge on melamine without a scoring blade on your saw. Even the
melamine blades have not given me perfect cuts. YMMV

Luigi

[CW]

"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
news:1193b807-1d7d-4a46...@px4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...

I have cut it quite successfully with a 50 tooth combo blade. Raise the
blade about 1/16. Run the board threw the saw to score the melamine. Flip it
over and score the other side. Raise the blade so it will just cut threw
the thickness of the board. Cut again. The first cut does the same job as a
scoring blade. Depending on how sharp the blade is, you may not have to
score the second side. Just keep the scored side down. I scored the second
side as I didn't have any extra and didn't want to take the chance. Probably
overkill. Works well for plywood too.

[russell...@yahoo.com]

The Festool track saws are very good at cutting melamine covered sheet
goods. The circular saw blade comes up from underneath the melamine.
So the melamine is not chipped. That is the bottom of the melamine.
The top of the melamine is covered by the track. The track has a
rubber edge along it. That rubber edge restricts the top melamine
from chipping as the blade comes up through the melamine.

On a table saw zero clearance blade inserts/surrounds help to prevent
chipping on the bottom of the melamine.

[bus...@gmail.com]

On Monday, March 19, 2012 3:07:06 PM UTC-4, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> The Festool track saws are very good at cutting melamine covered sheet
> goods. The circular saw blade comes up from underneath the melamine.
> So the melamine is not chipped. That is the bottom of the melamine.
> The top of the melamine is covered by the track. The track has a
> rubber edge along it. That rubber edge restricts the top melamine
> from chipping as the blade comes up through the melamine.
>
>

I don't know if I have enough, ah, GOOMPA (as my grandmother would have said) to ask the wife if I can buy one a Festool anything just to make a few melamine cuts...but it may be worth a try. What the heck, I am too old to be raising a new kid and it should only hurt for a somewhat short time.

[Pat Barber]

As somebody already mentioned:

Make the cut with the best you got and then trim it with a router.

A Freud 96 tooth blade does a pretty fair job on melamine.

http://www.freudtools.com/p-23-single-sided-laminatemelaminebr-nbsp.aspx

or

http://www.freudtools.com/p-24-double-sided-laminatemelaminebr-nbsp.aspx

Note that one blade does good on a single side and the other does
"both" sides..... If you can get one edge good, you are making real
progress with melamine.

This is cheaper than the Festool options...

[busbus]

I want to thank all of you for helping me. I think the advice of raising
the blade just high enough was the ticket. Well, that and telling me what
side to place face up and face down.

I ended up using masking tape put on really tight and there was barely any
chipping. It was amazing. I was so scared to cut the pieces but it turned
out great.

Thanks.


"Luigi Zanasi" <luigi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1193b807-1d7d-4a46...@px4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...

[J. Clarke]

In article <cfWdnWbhpYdsQfvS...@earthlink.com>,
cma...@earthlink.et says...

<Slapping forehead> I've done that for melamine. Never occurred to me
to do it for plywood.

[-MIKE-]

A fresh-to-the-blade zero clearance insert helps matters, as well.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[Steve Turner]

I have a phenolic zero-clearance insert for my Unisaw (wouldn't have any other
kind) that I periodically "refresh" by covering the top side of the blade
opening with masking tape, then turning it upside down and filling the opening
with epoxy. It beats spending $25 (or more) a pop for a fresh zero-clearance
insert.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

[-MIKE-]

On 3/23/12 11:27 AM, Steve Turner wrote:
>> A fresh-to-the-blade zero clearance insert helps matters, as well.
>
> I have a phenolic zero-clearance insert for my Unisaw (wouldn't have any
> other kind) that I periodically "refresh" by covering the top side of
> the blade opening with masking tape, then turning it upside down and
> filling the opening with epoxy. It beats spending $25 (or more) a pop
> for a fresh zero-clearance insert.
>

You are such an ass. I get so sick of feeling like an idiot because you
or Karl or Rob, etc. come in here and describe a simple, yet ingenious,
technique that would save me a lot of effort and should've been obvious
to my feeble mind.... yet you've waited so long to share such a gem. :-)

[Pat Barber]

On 3/23/2012 9:27 AM, Steve Turner wrote:

> I have a phenolic zero-clearance insert for my Unisaw (wouldn't have any
> other kind) that I periodically "refresh" by covering the top side of
> the blade opening with masking tape, then turning it upside down and
> filling the opening with epoxy. It beats spending $25 (or more) a pop
> for a fresh zero-clearance insert.
>

Oh my...a woodworking topic and a really great idea all in the same
message.

Shame on you for breaking the chain.

[Steve Turner]

On 3/23/2012 12:49 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 3/23/12 11:27 AM, Steve Turner wrote:
>>> A fresh-to-the-blade zero clearance insert helps matters, as well.
>>
>> I have a phenolic zero-clearance insert for my Unisaw (wouldn't have any
>> other kind) that I periodically "refresh" by covering the top side of
>> the blade opening with masking tape, then turning it upside down and
>> filling the opening with epoxy. It beats spending $25 (or more) a pop
>> for a fresh zero-clearance insert.
>>
>
> You are such an ass. I get so sick of feeling like an idiot because you
> or Karl or Rob, etc. come in here and describe a simple, yet ingenious,
> technique that would save me a lot of effort and should've been obvious
> to my feeble mind.... yet you've waited so long to share such a gem. :-)

Well yeah, it should have been obvious so that's why I've never mentioned it.
;-) Hey, I've gotta hold back a little bit because my great ideas aren't
infinite, and every once in a while I've gotta pop in here and act like I know
what I'm talking about. :-)

[Steve Turner]

Don't worry, somebody else will epoxy that chain back together. :-)

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.

[Steve Turner]

Oh yeah, while we're on the topic: If you now (for whatever reason...) happen
to have an extra phenolic zero-clearance insert, you can use my method to reset
the openings, then use one insert for your thin-kerf blades and the other for
your full-kerf blades. You're welcome. :-)

[-MIKE-]

I don't see why it wouldn't work on the plywood ones I make.

Jerk. :-p

[Max]

"Steve Turner" wrote

>I have a phenolic zero-clearance insert for my Unisaw (wouldn't have any
>other kind) that I periodically "refresh" by covering the top side of the
>blade opening with masking tape, then turning it upside down and filling
>the opening with epoxy. It beats spending $25 (or more) a pop for a fresh
>zero-clearance insert.

Hmm. Interesting. *I* think it's just as easy to make another insert.

Max (hate that epoxy smell) ;-)

[Steve Turner]

Seriously? Out of phenolic? Rough-cut to general size on the bandsaw, milled
to actual size with a flush-cut bit on the router table, drilled and tapped for
leveling screws, drilled for a finger removal hole, a small hole drilled in
just the right spot on the back edge to insert a roll pin to prevent the blade
from lifting the insert out of the slot, and perhaps extra drilling or cutting
for a splitter or riving knife? Mine also requires extra milling on the
underside so the insert clears the blade stabilizer and/or arbor nut. All that
so you can avoid the smell of epoxy? Whatever...

[-MIKE-]

Jeez Steve, of course all that is easier than squirting out some epoxy,
mixing it up, pushing it down into the slot, going out on the back deck
with a good beer and waiting all those minutes for the epoxy to cure.
sheesh. What were you thinking?

[Max]

"Steve Turner" wrote in message news:jkj3sc$i1r$1...@dont-email.me...

On 3/23/2012 7:02 PM, Max wrote:
>
>
> "Steve Turner" wrote
>
>> I have a phenolic zero-clearance insert for my Unisaw (wouldn't have any
>> other kind) that I periodically "refresh" by covering the top side of the
>> blade opening with masking tape, then turning it upside down and filling
>> the
>> opening with epoxy. It beats spending $25 (or more) a pop for a fresh
>> zero-clearance insert.
>
> Hmm. Interesting. *I* think it's just as easy to make another insert.
>
> Max (hate that epoxy smell) ;-)

> Whatever...

Thanks........

[Dave]

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 19:18:14 -0500, Steve Turner

> All that so you can avoid the smell of epoxy? Whatever...

Well, I like your tip. It's fast, easy and convenient.

[dadiOH]

What smell? My epoxy is pretty odorless. Polyester maybe? That's what I
use (in the form of Bondo).

[Larry Jaques]

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 18:02:50 -0600, "Max" <thesam...@att.net>
wrote:

Steve's idea was great. I'm gonna send it in to XYZ magazine and get
the big bucks!

>Max (hate that epoxy smell) ;-)

So do it on the back porch, fer pity's sake!

--
Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
-- Jimi Hendrix

[Steve Turner]

On 3/24/2012 8:21 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 18:02:50 -0600, "Max"<thesam...@att.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Steve Turner" wrote
>>
>>> I have a phenolic zero-clearance insert for my Unisaw (wouldn't have any
>>> other kind) that I periodically "refresh" by covering the top side of the
>>> blade opening with masking tape, then turning it upside down and filling
>>> the opening with epoxy. It beats spending $25 (or more) a pop for a fresh
>>> zero-clearance insert.
>>
>> Hmm. Interesting. *I* think it's just as easy to make another insert.
>
> Steve's idea was great. I'm gonna send it in to XYZ magazine and get
> the big bucks!

Go for it. You can buy me a beer next time you're in Austin. :-)

--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)

[Steve Turner]

On 3/24/2012 6:39 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> Max wrote:
>> "Steve Turner" wrote
>>
>>> I have a phenolic zero-clearance insert for my Unisaw (wouldn't have
>>> any other kind) that I periodically "refresh" by covering the top
>>> side of the blade opening with masking tape, then turning it upside
>>> down and filling the opening with epoxy. It beats spending $25 (or
>>> more) a pop for a fresh zero-clearance insert.
>>
>> Hmm. Interesting. *I* think it's just as easy to make another
>> insert.
>> Max (hate that epoxy smell) ;-)
>
> What smell? My epoxy is pretty odorless. Polyester maybe? That's what I
> use (in the form of Bondo).

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I have about five different kinds of
epoxy around here, and only one (Bondo marine epoxy, which you can't buy any
more) has any significant odor (the hardener smells strongly of ammonia), but
even that's not noticeable unless you stick your nose right in it.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!

[Steve Turner]

Thanks. "Fast" of course depends on what kind of epoxy you use. In my
experience, the strongest epoxies tend not to be those that cure quickly,
particularly those of the "5 minute" variety, so I would normally expect this
to be an overnight operation. I recently bought some of this stuff:

http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=28&PHPSESSID=201203240726171342237206

and it cures about as quickly as I could expect without sacrificing any
strength or adhesive qualities. It also has relatively low viscosity, which I
prefer for good penetrative characteristics on materials like wood. It's
pretty good stuff, and it would work very well for the phenolic insert application.

--
Any given amount of traffic flow, no matter how
sparse, will expand to fill all available lanes.

[Lew Hodgett]

"dadiOH" wrote:
>> Max (hate that epoxy smell) ;-)
>
> What smell? My epoxy is pretty odorless. Polyester maybe? That's
> what I use (in the form of Bondo).

-------------------------------------
Bingo.

Epoxy is oderless but a total waste of good epoxy for this
application.

1/4" tempered hardboard and some double backed tape works for me.

Lew

[Steve Turner]

A waste of good epoxy? To renew a zero-clearance insert? It takes all
of about 1/2 ounce of epoxy to get the job done. Sometimes I have more
than that left over from most of the woodworking tasks I use epoxy for.

[-MIKE-]

On 3/26/12 3:50 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
> On 03/26/2012 01:51 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "dadiOH" wrote:
>>>> Max (hate that epoxy smell) ;-)
>>>
>>> What smell? My epoxy is pretty odorless. Polyester maybe? That's
>>> what I use (in the form of Bondo).
>> -------------------------------------
>> Bingo.
>>
>> Epoxy is oderless but a total waste of good epoxy for this
>> application.
>>
>> 1/4" tempered hardboard and some double backed tape works for me.
>>
>> Lew
>
> A waste of good epoxy? To renew a zero-clearance insert? It takes all of
> about 1/2 ounce of epoxy to get the job done. Sometimes I have more than
> that left over from most of the woodworking tasks I use epoxy for.
>

Plus, you're doing your part to help out the epoxy industry during these
trying times.

[alex...@gmail.com]

Cut half the thickness on table saw, and then flip it on the other side

[Unknown]

alex...@gmail.com wrote in news:aff878c1-80b9-4597-8975-945c6afbb166
@googlegroups.com:

> Cut half the thickness on table saw, and then flip it on the other side
>

I've used tape to reduce the chipping and it does help. A sharp blade
helps quite a bit too.

The only problem with making two cuts is the final edge isn't likely to be
smooth. If you're edge banding, it might be a problem. You may want to
make the second cut full-depth to try to eliminate this.

Puckdropper

[John McCoy]

Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in
news:57a56d40$0$51782$c3e8da3$f626...@news.astraweb.com:

I suspect alex is answering one of these mysterious posts from
decades ago, since he didn't quote the original question.

However, another possible solution is cutting close with the
saw, then trimming to final size with a router.

John

[Unknown]

John McCoy <igo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:XnsA65C717C2BC...@213.239.209.88:

Yeah, I caught that and posted anyway. I'm always happy to see
woodworking technique discussed here, even if the original post is old
enough to drive.

Puckdropper